ITT pretentious garbage

Pretense has the nuance "fake, affected" not "inscrutable, complex"

how on earth is liz pretentious in any way?

but then again there are still some idiots who misinterpreted the oboe scene and don't understand nozomi character

It's good but yeah fuck Oshii

The difference between the two is marginal, and only concerns whether you appreciate what lies underneath the veil.

>Understanding them requires time and an inquisitive mind

That's a positive thing, not a bad thing.
Serial Experiments Lain is beautiful, probably the most beautiful anime I've ever seen. It's not hard to understand if you're into Japanese culture.

It really isn't. It's nearly opposite. It's the difference between Proust and Sword Art Online

>It really isn't.
The entire basis for OP's post is that it is.

But that's not the case at all. Pretentiousness is by definition a form of deceit - an attempt to obfuscate or compensate for a lack of inherent value through some facade.

So how does that disagree with my definition?

The basis of OP's post is that pretentious people say others don't understand the content in question in order to inflate its inherent value by making it seem complex or mysterious. In reality, the works are lacking in substance and the complexity is a pretense to suggest otherwise, used by the viewers to assert their own similarly false intellect.

Not that I completely agree with OP's choice of anime to call pretentious.

You suggest that there are in fact layers of complexity to be understood - and value beneath the superficial - but something pretentious lacks inherent value and merely creates a facade for the sake of convincing others.

>The basis of OP's post is that pretentious people say others don't understand the content in question in order to inflate its inherent value by making it seem complex or mysterious. In reality, the works are lacking in substance and the complexity is a pretense to suggest otherwise, used by the viewers to assert their own similarly false intellect.
Yes. OP does not acknowledge the complexity of these works and implies that it is merely a cover for very basic and shallow shows. He does not appreciate what lies underneath and mocks those that do.
>You suggest that there are in fact layers of complexity to be understood
That is your interpretation. I said there is a guise, and that seeing through the guise takes work.
>value beneath the superficial
No such implication has been made at any point.

Yeah they're all shit, I've only seen one of them but "pretentious" people, am i right.

OP has always been a faggot.

how the fuck is ping pong the animation pretentious you fuckwad? It's a fucking sports anime

Is it weird that I like pretentious shit? Like I enjoy my stuff a little 2deep4u, it keeps my brain engaged trying to decipher it even if I know it's just pretentious schlock.

>OP does not acknowledge the complexity of these works and implies that it is merely a cover for very basic and shallow shows
This very statement does to things. First, you explicitly state that there is a complexity going unacknowledged. Second, you imply that the OP is wrong in calling it merely a cover.

>He does not appreciate what lies underneath and mocks those that do
Once again you clearly state the OP is at fault and missing something.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong about these shows actually being deep - some of them certainly have elements requiring effort to appreciate - but I want you to take a look at what you said and tell me if it doesn't contradict with the definition of "pretentious".

>Pretentious: "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed."

To make it easier, your definition:

>Things have a layer obfuscating their true nature. Things are not as they seem at first glance. Understanding them requires time and an inquisitive mind.

You suggest that there is in fact something to be understood, but this contrasts the core meaning of pretentious - that the "importance, talent, culture, etc.", or in this case the meaning or "true nature", does not in fact exist, and is merely suggested by the offending party in an effort convince others.

Is Monogatari really considered "deep"? I just think it's "quirky" desu senpai.

Yuasa directed it

I can't think about anything more pretentious than VEG. Yea Forums spent an entire year arguing how DEEP, MEANINGFUL, AUTHENTIC and HISTORICALLY ACCURATE this show is, even before it aired. And then... It turned to nothing.

>First, you explicitly state that there is a complexity going unacknowledged. Second, you imply that the OP is wrong in calling it merely a cover.
True. I should have been more careful in my phrasing, since I don't actually believe that for every single title. I wanted to remain neutral.

>You suggest that there is in fact something to be understood,
So long as you cannot see and have no knowledge of a hidden object, you cannot understand it or its value (or lack thereof).
I am not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.
Imagine a counterfeit banknote. So long as you do not take a close look at it, you are a victim of a false understanding of its nature, but you have the potential to come to understand its true nature - with effort.

Depends what you mean by deep. If you're expecting to have your fundamental perceptions of reality warped or rewritten then no, it's not that deep. That doesn't mean it can't have compelling themes and characters, or dialogue that contains metaphors and other nuance. Though it is quirky more than anything.

Anyone who pretends it isn't a fun harem romp is in denial, but I fail to see how it can't also be more than that. That is to say it does what I suggested above.

It's not that imagery-rich, metaphor-soaked masterpiece some jackasses make it out to be, but it is still smart at times and requires some thought and engagement - especially if you don't speak Japanese, and thus have to put in extra effort for the sake of puns.

>Imagine a counterfeit banknote. So long as you do not take a close look at it, you are a victim of a false understanding of its nature, but you have the potential to come to understand its true nature - with effort.

But the interest in a counterfeit note is to conceal suspicion, whereas the interest in pretension is to arouse suspicion. That is, something pretentious will frame questions as though the solution is not obvious when in fact it is.

A real bank note hides nothing - it is real and needn't be inspected lest suspicion arise. Inspecting a real bank note can confirm that it isn't counterfeit, but given this is the base assumption doing so is just a confirmation rather than a revelation. No new knowledge is gained. Conversely, a counterfeit bank note has something to hide, and thus inspection of said note has a hidden truth to reveal. But a pretentious bank note is, in fact, a real bank note masquerading as a counterfeit; it would arouse suspicion such that you investigate only to find that you wasted the effort because it was real the entire time. Now, you could suggest that it wasn't wasted effort - you confirmed it wasn't a counterfeit after all. And yet there is a difference in intent. Thousands of notes go by without any real confirmation every day, only being inspected if there is suspicion of counterfeiting. The pretentious note has the audacity to create suspicion for the sole purpose of appearing more important or special than it really is - thus wasting time.

The real note neither wants nor needs inspection. The counterfeit note needs inspection, but doesn't want it. The pretentious note doesn't need inspection, but wants it anyway.

God now I feel like I'm a Monogatari character.

>whereas the interest in pretension is to arouse suspicion.
By what definition?

Do people think katanagatari is pretentious?

My bad, the interest of pretension in this specific case is to arouse suspicion, not in general. In general the interest is as follows.

>attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

In the case of a bank note, a counterfeit is "more important" for the sake of being different. It garners attention and focus because it needs to be weeded out form the mundanity of the common notes. Thus to "affect greater importance than is actually possessed", a real note must convince someone that it is actually a counterfeit. So in other cases the interest would vary. I should have been more emphatic about that part of the sentence referring to the scenario at hand. More of a metaphor, really, since "pretentious bank notes" aren't exactly a real thing, to my knowledge.

It is easy for money to pretend to have greater value than it possesses.
For a historic example, take all the times that governments sneakily reduced the silver content of their coins.
For a more recent example (with bank notes), think of the way that American money was supposed to be backed with real gold, until somebody noticed that there were too many dollars and not enough gold.

That's very true actually. I guess I was too fixated on the counterfeiting issue to consider other ways money could be pretentious.

> ping pong
> pretentious

Go fucking outside and experience life again neckbeard.

>and thus have to put in extra effort for the sake of puns.
You're not any less intelligent than a person who can understand the Japanese puns. It just means he's more exposed to it than you are.
There's a lot of people who pretend to understand what they're watching by overanalyzing shit.

Yep, yep, nope, nope, nope, nope

Nope, yep, nope, nope, nope, yep

Nope, nope, yep, nope, nope, yep.

>Steins Gate
>that one futuristic harem show where countries are all classes on spaceships and the main class is multinational

Getting tired of this low-effort guaranteed replies repost.

Only by people who fall for the ridiculous bombardment of semi-ironic visual and lingual gimmicks. I think even most monogatarifags have accepted it's just a decent harem at its core.

>Kyoani shit, HxH, monogatari
Really?
Why do retards act like any anime that has somewhat experimental direction (which is nothing compared to what has been achieved in live action "arthouse") is pretentious just because it's not conventional? They're not trying to trick you that there is some deeper meaning, the style itself IS deeper meaning.

Thanks for the recommendations

>only 4 out of 16 are genuinely "pretentious" while the others just have pretentious fanbases
I hate people.

18*

Why don't you add anime with actually pretentious fans like Flip Flappers, Kemono Friends and Kemurikusa?

can I get the name of second from the right at the very top?

This is pretty low effort bait.

This kind of shows are the most pretentious, just like Mob 100. Ping Pong is a story about a bunch of stupid people and their stupid reasons for playing the game. There is literally nothing interesting about it except if you want a pat on the back and tell yourself muh life struggles, muh passions wow it really resonates with me.

This is shit you should have experienced yourself so you don't need to experience it 2nd hand unless you are an unsecure failed normie loser who still aspires to be a normie despite beeing total fuckup.

Thanks for the recommendations OP. But I've already seen most of these. Guess it's the thought that counts.

>any kind of life-positivity and life-direction in a work is stupid and pretentious
woah

these people are perpetual adolescents. they think one piece, haremshit, and avengers are art because "it's fun bro, thinking is for pretentious people"

bang zoom!

Ping Pong is hardly positive, they are mentally disordered and toxic people with shitty lives

Did we watch the same show or are you just retarded?

Ping Pong and thinking lol, maby if you are serious 19 year old viewer (not a kid anymroe!!!)
It's just as dumb a shonen just playing off of different emotions and you gobble it up becouse it resonates with you aka you can self insert better

Tatami Galaxy was trying to stop the MC from being pretentious

The moral of ping pong is fun things are fun so do things you consider fun while pretentious posers get shit. Funny how you use ping pong as an argument against fun.

What does this have to do with the previous post?

Shones are bad becouse they are fun ping pong good becouse its thinking man's anime

>This is shit you should have experienced yourself so you don't need to experience it 2nd hand
Have you considered that there could be a motivation to enjoying an anime besides "self-inserting" and "resonating with characters?"

Ignore the idiots

I'm not that guy. Look at what you're replying to, fagtard.

>being able to relate = self-insert
Nice meme, retard. Too bad you completely dropped the ball on that one.

Attached: smugyuki2.png (831x560, 752K)

Friendly reminder that if you need a character to match you in some way to self-insert, then you're very likely emotionally underdeveloped. You should be able to feel empathetic (and therefore self-insert) into virtually any character. Once a show panders to a certain demographic to such an extent that the audience doesn't even need to feel empathetic to relate, it's bad by proxy, see Tatami Galaxy that is utterly blatant about who it panders to or 3-Gatsu, a show that bombards the characters with misfortune so any emotionally stunted child can find something to relate to.

Self inserting and relating to a character are different things.
But yeah, if you are a self-inserter, you should be able to self insert into almost any character.

>citation needed

This is retarded. Any MC of a particular bent can be called pandering. What matters is if the show is wish fulfillment of that type or not. Tatami isn't because it actually encourages a realistic unpleasant process of change in the real world.

t. shonenigger

I wonder who's behind this post.

They are the same at the core
Just like otaku incel mc is supposedly a self insert for otaku fanbase, they can both relate and self insert to such character.
Self insert must be depicted in positive light and sp are harem mcs who get the girls and Mob from Mob 100 who gets father figure and chad bros while putting minial effort - just go to the gym bro.

All of them except VEG are good.
Who put that garbage in there to begin with?

Just go to psychologist bro, you want cartoons to teach you how to live? What kind of loser are you? Get your real life lessons from real life.
There is objectively nothing wrong with wish fullfillment and it actually takes the most adventage from beeing a fiction. Why imagine something that already exists, already happened millions of times and most people have experienced already when you can imagine something that can't be achived and is impossible in relaity? Thats what fucking fiction is.

What's pretentious about Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju? It's just a (very good) romantic drama.

The basis for OPs post is OP is a baiting faggot. Make your own argument.

How the fuck did you miss Ergo Proxy? Also the Kara no Kyoukai movie is the most pretentious piece of anime media there exists in the world. Just the first one, the rest are good. KnK 1 is a simple plot that wouldn't take more than 20 minutes but it's filmed in the most convoluted way full of Nasuverse techno babble and people acting like something important is happening. I could smell the semen of the author wanking himself as if this was an artsy masterpiece.

The problem is people calling them "deep" or "pretentious". They are just very well made shows that may resonate with one's personality a lot better than your average anime.
That is why I can't fucking bear to see shit like shinsekai yori or violet evergarden on there. The rest is good and has a unique and captivating aestethic.

I can rest easy knowing that Mawaru Penguindrum is not on that list.