>"M-muh very smart Nen system!"
>gives Killua the ability to turn his fingernails into claws that are sharper than daggers without any explanation
>gives Hisoka the ability to turn into smoke without any explanation
Face it huntertards, haki was a well-thought-out system from literary chapter 1 because Oda actually cares about manga as a medium for storytelling meanwhile nen was just Togashi's failed attempt to turn a shonen manga into a successful video game franchise that he can milk for the rest of his life. Nen was nothing more than a failed business venture, Togashi even went as far as to make an entire arc that revolves around gaming in the hopes that he'll attract a publisher that can turn HunterxHunter into the next Final Fantasy series.
"M-muh very smart Nen system!"
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It's not supposed to be logical. It's a world where prepubescent boys can haul around multi-tonne fish, be allowed to participate in deathmatches, and can run up stairs for over 6 hours straight.
All of that while no adult seems to mind.
killua was just flexing
hisoka was just doing a magic trick
cringe and bluepilled thread
based and hakipilled
There's literally nothing smart about it either. hxhtards act like arranging the 6 completely open ended powers into a hexagon somehow makes it the best system ever. As always they're just stuck way up their asses trying to forget it's hiatus time again
>gives Killua the ability to turn his fingernails into claws that are sharper than daggers without any explanation
Basic Enhancement skill
>gives Hisoka the ability to turn into smoke without any explanation
Not canon
How does it feel to know that a hxh clone like naruto ended up being way more popular than the original?
Not surprised. The masses are brainless, tasteless monkeys, so it goes without saying that they would eat up the inferior product
>haki
>hurr they can dodge better
>durr they can punch harder
>invalidates the one thing that makes logias actually threatening
Cringe thread
based
>Basic Enhancement skill
Before he discovered Nen? Even though Killua knew about his grandpa's Dragon Dive, apparently he didn't know that Nen existed. Gotta love Togashi's logic.
You can use nen without having to know about it. See Neon, Zepile, Komugi, Gon (used Zetsu while following Hisoka) etc.
If it's so basic why doesn't everyone use it?
Gentic/biological powers exist like the kurta clan eyes. There's also family who modify bodies like the hole piercing tribes . The claw could be genetic or through direct experiments
Feitan uses it
Oh god this thread's going to be a bloodbath. You wrote an eloquent post OP, but this post wasn't needed right now. They're both good systems.
haki is shit, actually
Right, the "I can give myself any super power with my DBZ aura." system is clearly superior.
No, they aren't. Nen is the most perfect power system ever created in fiction. Haki is garbage made for children.
>Devil Fruits have 3 categories, and like 4 subcategories in Zoan type fruits
>Nen has 6 aura types and only 10 ability subcategories got uncovered so far in a single arc
>Haki, le limited Nen copypasta with Ultra Instinct with 4 categories
>Nen has 4 major principles of nen techniques + 7 advanced ones
>One Piece has battle styles
>HxH even has Family/Clan battle and assassination styles
>Devil Fruits for side effects they only have salt water and seastone weakness, other than that there's elements based weaknesses, certain paramecia types' overusage and haki overusage
>Nen has more side-effects/consequences and requirements/vows for how powerfull you want your ability to become
It would be better to compare with Naruto and you would sound less delusional.
yes, it is
Unironnically redpilled.
Nah, it's more like "I can give myself magical objects with my DBZ aura" which is even worse.
Your argument is that nen has more categories and battle styles but that's exactly the problem. Nen is much too specific in how it works while also allowing asspull "specials". It takes away all the mystery from the combat system because you know the lines by which the author will write future movesets. It's predictable as fuck. Haki however doesn't affect the choreography of martial arts combat, it just enhances stats, so the combat remains very grounded in martial arts. Meanwhile DF rules are non-specific enough to essentiale make asspulling the way things just are. Kinda like stands in JoJo. Which makes haki + DF better system for storytelling and Nen better for game adaptations.
>haki was a well-thought-out system
>If it's so basic why doesn't everyone use it?
Because people have better abilites than dime store wolverine knock off moves
>haki was a well-thought-out system from literary chapter 1
Weak bait.
>Nen is much too specific in how it works
>It takes away all the mystery from the combat system because you know the lines by which the author will write future movesets
This doesn't make sense, in this arc we had a guy reveal his ability is making things grow better, a guy who can create a monster that counter picks another person's ability, a girl who can punch the truth out of you, and a guy who can turn weapons into animals to attack others
The thing about nen combat is that because abilities have these broad categories, yet allow for very specific and individualistic abilities the story makes it hard to gauge at a glance what a person can do. And because these abilities are unique with very little 1:1 overlap, how each ability gets utilized is also going to be different each character. We have 3 ability thieves this arc. They have different conditions
>Steal an ability after getting the target to do a bunch of stuff with my book
>steal the ability of any soldier under Benjamin's command who dies, their abilities will still linger if it was previously active
>steal a single ability and either use it for myself or give it to someone else to use
And for two of these characters since they can store multiple abilities for the long-term, they can have abilities the reader isn't aware of (benjamin has 1 more star than the number of soldiers that died this arc, Chrollo's book is loaded already) as well as combine abilities for compounded effects. So there is a lot of guesswork with how abilities will be utilized and what surprises might come from it
Oda tends to have DF's act as either normal abilities or set piece abilities. Sugar was more a plot device in Dressrosa. But most combat type devil fruits that are going to get a lot of play are easy to understand and have degrees of versatility. The only Outliers are people like Law whose powers are easy, but overpowered so he winds up getting crippled in some way so that he doesn't upstage Luffy and the gang
>This doesn't make sense, in this arc we had a guy reveal his ability is making things grow better, a guy who can create a monster that counter picks another person's ability, a girl who can punch the truth out of you, and a guy who can turn weapons into animals to attack others
>The thing about nen combat is that because abilities have these broad categories, yet allow for very specific and individualistic abilities the story makes it hard to gauge at a glance what a person can do. And because these abilities are unique with very little 1:1 overlap, how each ability gets utilized is also going to be different each character. We have 3 ability thieves this arc. They have different conditions
Ok I'm not saying nen is shit or anything but these are about the abilities I would expect. They're very balanced and nerfed enough to NOT affect the worldbuilding. The categories exist to make sure human characters aren't too OP while also being somewhat unique unless they're "special" and Togashi wants them to be OP. You can look at nen as a class system in an RPG with skil trees in every class. But the uniquenes of powers is on par with MHA meaning they're varied but not actually that creative. Countering abilities, stealing them and summoning monsters are Card Game powers. They're planned so that when it's 1v1 it's like a magick the gathering match. Picking and training your ability is equal to deck building. The fact that people have about the same supply of nen is the card limit. Going with that metaphore you can plainly see that all nen user battles are balanced and play out according to the nen rulebook. The rulebook is very bluntly explained so there's not much to be surprised about. It's as eventful as watching a card game stream.
Meanwhile One Piece isn't bound by rational balance, equality or rules. The combat is a battle of abilities as broad as the author can imagine with lawless bar brawl as the blueprint compared to Togashi's card game model.
reminder that GODA lives inside your brain RENT FREE while you bitch and moan.
>have to constantly bait people to discuss wan piss by using another series as thread openers
>m-muh rent free
>You can look at nen as a class system in an RPG with skil trees in every class.
Not really. A skill tree would imply that I can guess at what "level" a conjurer can make something, or at what "levels" you need to have in emissions and conjuration to teleport. That aspect is missing from HxH as training abilities is not really built on and most people are freak prodigies.
>But the uniquenes of powers is on par with MHA meaning they're varied but not actually that creative.
How are HxH abilities not creative?
>Going with that metaphore
It's a specific plot point that this isn't true at all. Some people are better than others, and for the rest you have to make sure to catch them on their off day or get them to lower their guard. If you mean balanced in that anyone has a chance to beat someone else, than One Piece is equally balanced.
>The rulebook is very bluntly explained so there's not much to be surprised about.
The rulebook is an outline and the nuance comes from how abilities are derived from individual categories, or mixing them together
>Meanwhile One Piece isn't bound by rational balance, equality or rules
One Piece is equally bounded by rules. We know what Haki does, there's no surprises so far. Devil Fruits are consistent with only Paramecia being "unbounded" and there are still observable consistencies with how they work.One Piece powers are easy to understand and has the same broad categories of Hatsu. Zoans are animal shifters, Logia are elementals, and Paramecia are largely Production-type people who make something, bodymod-type people who have a physical property to their body, or effect-type people who can exert a specific influence over a fixed region. But both authors have a wide range of powers they showcase in their stories but also a degree of predictability to those powers. I don't think a card game applies to anything other than Greed Island's literal card game.
Yet another proof that ONE>Togayshi
>muh imagination
Thats how you know nen is a shit system, at least Naruto limits hax to genetics or divinity.
It was until Katukuri showed how CoO can break the story.
Yeah, there are no levels, that's the one difference I see.
>Some people are better than others, and for the rest you have to make sure to catch them on their off day or get them to lower their guard.
True but their core resource(nen) is more or less equal for everyone which isn't the case in OP cause neither haki nor DF are ever equal between two people. Muscle power and martial arts are also equally important as DF and Haki. All those things result in a constantly shifting power hierarchy of the world. Compared to hxh I feel like each fighter is important in his own right and each is an equally important or unimlortant player in the grand scheme of things. It's very egalitarian. Tbqh you could remove nen and the world would look about the same. You would just have less shonen-like hunters.
>The rulebook is an outline and the nuance comes from how abilities are derived from individual categories, or mixing them together.
Yeah but you can't really cross those lines if you're human. Meaning you can actually identify how someone's power works and if you do it correctly they won't surprise you.
>One Piece is equally bounded by rules. We know what Haki does, there's no surprises so far...
Well haki and DF are bound by some rules but while haki has strictly defined outlines - DF have only a defined starting point from which things can go in infinite directions. Paramecia are completely not bound by any rules, you can see some little pattern here and there, some similarities between fruits but ultimately anything is possible in this category. Zoans are actually not very limited as well. It is said that zoan fruit users have three forms but looking at Chopper, Rob, Kaku, the spider vice-admiral, Franco, Catarina and possibly Beast Pirates(we'll see) they can have even up to 9 hybrid transformations. They have both the abilities of their animals as well as whatever power ups they learn to achieve. Mythical Zoan powers are also very much unlimited. Contd.
The problem with Naruto is that in the end it all comes down to how big of an explosion you can make, this obviously limits the battle choreography but it's still preferable to having the narrator dissect everyone's ability for 5 minutes at a time like that's the important part. Personally I'd rather hear characters talk about who they are/what their objectives are than their magical powers.
Magic in Index is absolutely based and 90% real life magic, but the author is mildly retarded.
Ironically the most limiting Df category are logias with just the elemental powers and "invincibility".
Explosions wasnt until the final arc in Naruto.
brainlet =/= chad
HAHAHA ONE SHITTERS BTFO
Wait, I expressed myself badly
>Compared to hxh I feel like each fighter is important in his own right and each is an equally important or unimlortant player in the grand scheme of things.
I meant:
"In hxh I feel like each fighter is important in his own right and each is an equally important or unimportant player in the grand scheme of things. "
>I swear I'm not seething. I'm laughing, see? HAHAHAHA
The absolute state
Based
>True but their core resource(nen) is more or less equal for everyone
Nen categories and quantities are imbalanced. Every category has a specialty that cannot be attained by another category.
>emissions is spacial manipulation
>conjuration can enforce absolute rules over a conjured territory, create matter
>Specialists do whatever isn't covered by the other type
>enhancement increases the quantity of aura
etc.
And this is before mixing types to create greater possibilities. The base and advanced techniques not Hatsu also create imbalances. And hatsu abilities don't evenly balance, some aren't even combat abilities and the combat abilities can have natural counters and exploits in a matchup. Nen aptitude is also never equal, some people just have a greater potential with nen than others. So just like how people have different degrees of haki (including the aptitude to use conqurers) and devil fruits have natural counters and imbalances so does nen.
>Muscle power and martial arts are also equally important as DF and Haki.
Same in HxH, combat experience and technique is just as important as your power. We've seen numerous examples of powerful people losing because his opponent was the better fighter on a base level.
>Meaning you can actually identify
You can guess the category for sure, but I can do the same for DF abilities. There can still be additional rules not obvious to the reader.
>DF have only a defined starting point from which things can go in infinite directions
In theory, in practice very few devil fruits are as divergent from the norm as you might be claiming. People like Sugar and Big mom stick out.
>Zoan
I think only chopper has more than 3 forms because of the rumble ball, and the gifters are a different matter as they seem to only have 1 form they can access if shifting is even possible. Most gifters are some type of hybrid by default though.
>cont.
huntertrannies absolutely destroyed
>"In hxh I feel like each fighter is important in his own right and each is an equally important or unimportant player in the grand scheme of things
The last part confuses me a little. The goals of any given arc can be bigger than the main character, but that only really applies to the Chimera Ant and arguably the Succession War. The CA arc had Netero, the leader of the association dying via suicide bomb which is effectively what ended Mereum and two of his guards. In that respect even his mini-drama of wanting to find a greater opponent was just his personal wish as he could have just walked into the base and detonated the rose fulfilling his mission. I don't think he is unimportant because ultimately his strength and powers weren't what won the day. But without him and even Komugi you wouldn't have seen the change that occured in Mereum as he learns that humans are worth respect. Although he dies as well so his storyline ended with that revelation.
I agree with you somewhat that nen abilities aren't going to change the setting in the same way Devil Fruits can. Or rather, that devil fruits have a greater potential to alter their surroundings than nen abilities might. But I look at stuff like the Neon's future sight being a center piece to York Shin, nen-awakened chimera ants posing some threat to the world, the seed urn ritual creating this battle royale, and even Greed Island and think that nen is still a major component of the worldbuilding. So I can't think about removing those things and the story staying the same.
All the characters I mentioned have more then 3 Zoan forms. But what I'm getting out of this coversation is that we like different powersystems so what's the point.
Actually a good point
>the espada all have this passive ability called hierro, which means their skin is hard like steel
>bushoshoku haki lets users harden and strenghten body parts and even held objects
>kirishima's quirk allows him to harden his body, mostly for defensive purposes
>yeah, so uh, killua can turn his hand into a very hard and sharp claw. stop asking questions.
you can't win a battle because you're born with more power in hxh. Meruem is a prof to that. unlike most shonem, gon have no "secret family power". like you have a demon inside of you, also you have alot of power because you came from certain family, also your dad is one of the most strong dudes there is, also you are the reincarnation of one of the founders of chakra, also you have 100 speech. that shit is just dumb
One punch man isnt as good as hxh tho,
You can't take shit for granted when the mangaka is autistic about explaining every little detail with walls of text.
Today, I will remind them
youtube.com
Going to call a technicality on those zoans. Rob lucci is using a rokushiko technique to compress the muscles of his hybrid form. It's not like what chopper does at all since Chopper is deviating from the standard
>beast > hybrid > "human"
model entirely.
Kaku doesn't have any additional forms either.
I can't find anything on Franco
Catarina's shapeshifting is a trait of her devil fruit independent of the zoan form logic. She is a mystical fox, disquises are what they do
And like I said, the beast pirates are gifters and most don't exhibit any transformations as they are hard locked in whatever form they have.
>But what I'm getting out of this coversation is that we like different powersystems so what's the point.
I like both, but I don't think that OP really does much different conceptually than what HxH offers. I think both Oda and Togashi have some broad definitions of what these powers can do, then make interesting characters/powers to use them. Oda at best has a bit more freedom on paper since devil fruits aren't as deeply codified. But in practice Oda's powers are rarely that out there from the established logic.
I do agree that one piece abilities are bigger and more terrain warping than nen abilities in general. I think Nen operates on that human scale you talk about with few exceptions. Togashi kind of solidified this by not escalating destructive capabilities in the succession war arc. Logistical abilities are more useful and people like Halkenburg who have a nuclear option are also gimped in what they can do with that massive aura.
Oof! That cringe was too much for me.
>Shanks gets his arm bitten off by some fodder
>he totally let it happen
Wasn't that nearly a decade before Luffy started his journey? Maybe Shanks was fodder at that point.
>I can't find anything on Franco
I think he meant "Marco"
>One Meme Man
The absolute IRONY of this post
When's the next HunterxHunter movie coming out?
I've only seen Marco as either a full phoenix or as a human. He can use his phoenix fire in either form though.
He can transform partially, like turning only his hands into wings leaving rest of his body human.
I don't know how I forgot that from Marineford. Yeah, he's be the only Zoan I could concede is not just jumping between one of the three forms without a rumble ball. Given he's a mystical type that could have something to do with it but I don't know.
nen has its actual roots in consciousness and the methodology of thought.
In Impel Down there were Awakened Zoans but they seemed to be insane or maybe bestial. Kinda similar to Chopper's monster point, especially before the time skip. I think that Chopper accidentally found a method to force a partial awakening.
>It's not supposed to be logical
Then why bother making the system as needlessly convoluted as humanly possible?
The phantom brigade arc is the worst arc I have ever read in any shonen manga and I have no idea why anybody liked it, let alone would consider it the best part of the manga.
How will HxHchads ever recover
that was before nen was retconned into existence though
Killua's claws come from his assassination training. He even mentions he's been enhanced.
No, it has its roots in DBZ and X-Men.
>you see its not a plothole he actully WANTED to get his arm ripped off
>hides rokushiki behind the coat rack while whistling
>sweeps fishman karate under the rug frantically
>Desperately attempts to shove the fact that devil fruits can do anything into the closet, unsuccessfully
>Entire characters carried by random power items that they just found or made from "science"
>Awakened Zoans
That would be the true 4th form of a zoan. And yeah, Chopper seems to have found a way to not only induce his awakening to some degree, but also gained a greater awareness than what the guards showed. To the point where his personality and ego are no longer suppressed.
>oda sensei, why does his leg not burn from that heat?
>because his heart burns hotter
but during fights, characters objectives are to defeat their opponents magical powers which is made of who they are so thats what you're getting no matter what.
>not being bound by arbitrary restrictions born of autism while writing a comic book
Chad GODA at it again!
Whatever show your gay ability is from
>character punches villain, villain dodges, villain punches
Nen
>Character attacks subjective villain in a way so clever that 20 seconds of narration are needed to understand, villain responds in an equally clever way only using previously established or foreshadowed methods
Fucking retard, those had their pores opened except Gon, who didn't need to to use Zetsu, Killua didn't
Trying too hard.
>western civilization is the most popular of all cultures
Seems to be whiteys are just inferior creatures.
>Except Gon, who didn't need to use zetsu
Que? Aura still leaks out to a noticeable degree if someone isn't explicitly using zetsu, meaning Gon would have been sensed while tailing Hisoka
Also we don't know how far opening a person's nen nodes has to go for subconscious nen use. At the very least we know that the nodes in Zepile's eyes were closed, because he couldn't see nen. It's also possible that they only temporarily open their nodes as a result of focusing on whatever they project their nen towards, but revert back to the regular state afterward.
>It's supposed to be shit!
What an amazing argument.
>two phantom troupe only episodes
These are literal fillers, there's fuck nothing interesting about these mouthbreathers.
In the middle of the best arc too. Why? Why was this content here?
Why just fill us some assholes pulling tricks out of their asses just before the climax?
I don't think you can seal your nodes.
>logic=good
No.
They helped world build Meteor City and how far the fall out of the other chimera ants breaking off reached. Also helped kind of lead in to the setup for Gyro, assuming that ever gives payoff
>I don't think you can seal your nodes
That's the principle behind zetsu, just involuntary. If they didn't reseal their nodes, they would either hemorrhage aura or instinctively use ten, and we've never been shown a nen genius walking around with ten unknowingly.
I meant that Gon didn't need to have his pores opened to use Zetsu. Chimeras used Ten without knowing it as well, since they could see nen, like the spider under Zazan. Komugi is using a shabby Ten when awakens