Apocrypha

>Remove Jannu and Sieg
>Mordred and the necromancer are the main protagonists
>make Astolfo masculine
>semiramis and amakuso sex scene
>replaces siegfried with sigurd

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No Sieg
Actually have the show be a battle between two master teams

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Show me your """"good writing"""" then, user. The floor is yours.

Gtfo Higashide

>Remove Sieg entirely
>Mordred and Spooky dude are the protags now
>Kill Astolfo early
>Make Vlad FUCKING TEPES more than a jobber
>Use missing faggotry screen time to flesh out better characters.

There 10/10 show, better than UBW

That's something I can agree with.

Oh, sick burn. How will I ever recover?

>How will I ever recover?
You could start with destroying every copy of your atrocity of a novel.

>Mordred as the mc
I'd drop this series after three episodes of watching the same thing over and over, realising that what I'd been watching was a loud, potty-mouthed chav with no life directions and a goal which she herself DENOUNCED.

But why would I do that? Look, this is my favourite page.

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Have Fran not die.

Let me guess, you like romance in SAO too?

>remove Jack
>rewrite Atalanta's character entirely
>either give Jeanne actual reasons to oppose Amakusa or have him win

Forget Apocrypha, how would you fix LE? Remember umu is still the MC.

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>LE
Turn it into VN.

Now THAT is an atrocity, user.

this

His entire character is sucking Sieg's dick what are you talking about?

>Remember umu is still the MC.
Cannot be fixed then

Remove everything and give the budget and time to Narita for Strange/Fake

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This.

You mean ZzzZzztrange Fake, right?

Strange Fake needs Narita to grow a pair of balls and kill someone, so far all the fights are people showing off their stuff only to run away later.

Add more traps.

Remove Nasu, I can name at least 5 novels of TM that were decent without his intervention

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Make Sieg's journey more relevant to the actual plot, or maybe tie him into Siegfried more strongly. Sure, turning into a heroic spirit isn't new in the Fate franchise, but the foreshadowing that he was secretly Fafnir was basically nonexistent. IIRC in the anime they don't even mention that Fafnir is supposed to be summoned when Siegfried is summoned, nobody comments on the missing DRAGON.

The power levels were all over the place, and it was too 'showy' a series. Karna, Achilles, Siegfried, and even Semi are all set up as these damn-near unstoppable characters. Even Motherfucking Dracula didn't end up doing much against them, despite literally everyone shitting themselves over him the entire novel. I think at one point they even spell out that, as Dracula, Vlad would be basically unbeatable and while the novel does do a good job of showing him just slam the other servants around, in the anime they try and just have him run away only to be offed by a complete faggot with no setup.

Which leads me to the villain - he had nothing going for him as a character. If Darnic had remained the actual villain and Dracula been treated like the threat he was meant to be, I think the series could have changed drastically.

And of course we have the REAL issue; F/SN and Zero worked well because in each we were given ~15-18 characters to work with, to get to know their backstories, etc. It works well because the series devotes a bit of time to everyone, what drives their motivations and why they're a part of the conflict. We KNOW just about everyone from the original LN, with only some exceptions. Here? We barely know half of the fucking servants that are propped up as the main appeal. Out of the sixteen fucking SERVANT CHARACTERS ALONE, we get to know maybe, MAYBE 5 of them in any sort of depth, 6 if you REALLY want to count Mordred even though everything about her can be gleamed from F/SN.
Cont.

>Eat this Sieg
>Tanked Karna's prana burst, Bramastra Kundala, and Vasavi Shakti(point blank from IoG), Balmung and Clarent BloodArthur
Kek jobber redman wouldn't even survive on the apocryphaverse

>>Tanked Karna's prana burst, Bramastra Kundala, and Vasavi Shakti(point blank from IoG), Balmung and Clarent BloodArthur
Since when faggot homunculi were able to fight the strongest Heroic Spirits and win? Apocrypha shits on the whole Fate. Nothing adds up and everything is bullshit. It feels even worse than the last arc of Bleach.

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>Since when faggot homunculi were able to fight the strongest Heroic Spirits and win.
Since UC dumbass

That was quite funny, I admit. But it is still a meme answer.

>Tfw Lezlitt soloed fuyuki's hgw against every servant including redman doggo and Gil.
Kek

This brings us to the 'masters' of the series.
Now, in the Fate franchise, don't get me wrong the Servants are always cool as shit, and seeing their interactions and powers are nice, but to me (and many others), nearly every servant in the series can be summed up as "Character from history and myth with cool powers attached who fights to the death for a cup". The masters were always the most interesting characters in the series (Yes, even Shirou), because seeing THEIR motivations and desires drive the plot was truly something interesting, and their interactions and battles usually ended up being the most interesting things in the franchise. Just look at Kiritsugu vs Kirei. To this day it's considered one of the best fights in an anime (I debate that but my point is) despite having no super-nukes blasting away city streets or insane, pseudo-god powers that blind the viewer every time their sword-cannon gets fired. It's two guys, on relatively similar levels, fighting with believable powers. Even in the rest of the Nasuverse, I find that the human characters (mages included) tend to be some of the more awesome inclusions to their respective stories.

In Apocrypha? We get to know a grand total of 5 of the masters. Kairi, Fiore, Caules, Darnic, and Jack's Master who's name I forgot. I don't count Amakusa because he's one of the boring servants who has no real backstory. The rest of the masters can be summed up in single sentences with no real thought attached to them, and the masters we DO meet barely get any time to shine while KARNA THE INVINCIBLE blows up an area the size of a small country before dying to someone born yesterday.

The premise of 14 servants seems cool on paper but it was simply infeasible to actually pull off with the same level of quality I hoped for from SN, Zero, or (insert favorite Nasu work here). The story was very rushed for what it was, and there was a LOT of holes in it (why the fuck was Shakespeare even THERE?).
Cont.

> I don't count Amakusa because he's one of the boring servants who has no real backstory.
Amakusa was the protagonist of the series though, and the story revolves around him hence why it was named Apocrypha

Since Hercules ate an underpowered Caliburn.

Fate route? Garcher already killed him 6 times.

Apocrypha was too ambitious for its' own good, the main character had barely anything going for him, especially when it's clear to many people that Kairi should have probably been the real main character. There were too many characters running about with not enough substance, many of the battles, while flashy, were ultimately just filler that didn't progress the plot at all. Just look at the 'epic' Karna and Siegfried battle at the beginning, nothing was accomplished there. How about the battle with Vlad and Karna? Or Caster (black) vs everyone? The 'stakes' were high but nothing was impacted save for us (maybe) crossing a name off of a list of characters we need to remember are still alive.

Mordred's victory was invalidated, Karna was too "Gilgamesh" without having any bearing on the story whatsoever, and too many of the other characters could best be described as "present".

If I were to do it over, I'd cut it down to believable servants, keep the Jeanne and Sieg crap but have the reason Jeanne was summoned be because a 'fake' Saber (Siegfried) was summoned and the Ygfgsdkfjgar masters were working together, so maybe just Karna, Mordred, and Semi were against Vlad (berserker duh), Astolfo, Evicebubble, Siegfried, and Chiron. I'd have the human characters interact with their servants more as well as each other, raise the stakes for Vlad a bit as it becomes obvious he's the main villain, and keep the Sieg subplot but now Jeanne sticks to him because he violates the rules. Amakusa is rewritten as a regular church member because he's fucking stupid and Kairi has a better fight with someone who's not a fucking cripple.

Becoming the main villain through an asspull and hijacking an interesting story for your self-righteous bs does not make you the protagonist, it makes you a well-intentioned extremist at best and a shitty character otherwise. Just because someone says the story revolves around him doesn't mean that Sieg isn't still the load.

Fuck you, Amakusa is unironically great except for the part of his backstory that only exists to be a FSN reference. He should have just been some random fucko from the Church without the Kotomine/EMIYA bait & switch. The mere concept of him as a foil for Jeanne is a stroke of genius and gives us one of the few takes on the historical figure that isn't "evil/demonic sorcerer."

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Give Shinji arc one more episode, cut out Dan entirely, bring back cut pink hair chick arc.
Make fights not shitty.
And there, from a shaky series with great potential buried underneath the mountains of fuck ups you've got an actually competent product.

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Smart umu post

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But he was not a Japanese ginger with little to no skill in magic who just banged King Arthur. Well, at that time at least.

My problem isn't with him as a character, because aside from him just being boring he's not terrible (I'm sure ALL of the servants are 'not shit' if taken out of Apocrypha), my problem is his bearing on the story is obvious early on and despite a much better main villain being set up as early as chapter one the author insisted on making us read a morality thesis and to do so needed a 'morally righteous' antagonist with a stupid plan to save the world, the opposite of Kiritsugu, who was a stupid hero looking for a solution to HIS stupid plan. Do you know what we got? We got a main character with barely any motivation besides "live to see tomorrow and maybe fuck Jeanne with my dragon cock" vs a villain who, for all intents and purposes, was right but for the wrong reasons, and one who stabs the obvious villain in the face half way through the plot and takes up THE REST OF THE SERIES with his moral posturing.

If Amakusa hid as Semi's fucktoy I mean master with subtle hints throughout the story and only AFTER the climax battle with Darnic and Vlad is he revealed to actually be a servant who now must be defeated because Kairi has his own needs of the grail, it would have been a slightly better tale, with the two of them having an epic showdown to decide the fate of the world (oh and I guess Sieg is there too).
Amakusa is a fine character, but he as main antagonist just doesn't fit. With Darnic, the threat of an immortal vampire that will subvert the world under his reign is a much more compelling threat, and forcing your way to him would have made a better story, especially if they elaborated a bit more on Vlad's own inner conflict.

The story, again, was rushed and crunched and the way Amakusa was handled was just one of the many flaws in the series. Imagine if in the original Fate route, instead of being a villain at the end, Gilgamesh just shows up during the first berserker fight and invalidates that, then has THE REST OF THE ROUTE revolve around him.

The bait and switch was the only thing that made his twist work though. He's way too suspicious to be just any fucko, so by making him seem like a retarded fanservice reference they had everyone trusting the character. I never get why you autists mind so much about that, since him being a Kotomine made a lot of sense to the plot and how it related to the 3rd HGW, and his design was barely impacted by being called Shirou (which is his real name anyways).

>Becoming the main villain through an asspull and hijacking an interesting story for your self-righteous bs does not make you the protagonist.
Since when Amakusa became a villain?
Well maybe if you put yourself in the same shoe of that one blank slate character named Sieg yeah, he might be stand against you as antagonist but calling him as a villain is stretching too much. In fact the villain of the series was Sieg himself, who opposed mankind's saviour and took humanity's salvation unto himself.
Anime onlies and secondaryfags really misunderstood the story

I should have use the word 'antagonist', but my point still stands.
Go read the novel again, you'll find that Sieg's reasons for opposing Amakusa stupid, yes, but well-reasoned within the story. This makes him the 'protagonist'. Because, you know, Amakusa's idea of 'Salvation' isn't exactly what I'd be down for. Maybe you think being a ghost forever with no real emotions or sense of self is cool, but that's not my bowl of chips bro.

>Go read the novel again, you'll find that Sieg's reasons for opposing Amakusa stupid, yes, but well-reasoned within the story.
>A robotic sentient learnt through out his journey the sense of individuality leading him to oppose a man bearing humanity's salvation. His SELFISHNESS against mankind's SALVATION.

>Maybe you think being a ghost forever with no real emotions or sense of self is cool, but that's not my bowl of chips bro.
You literally ascend to a higher plane of existence that is beyond to our limited human comprehension. That's what transhumanism is.

And that's what would have ultimately doomed the timeline.

>Liners timeline exists
Yeah fuck that extellaverse bullshitry

I said STUPID, didn't I? His motivation (life) is directly opposed to the antagonists (become a ghost thing).
And no, the forced manifestation of the soul would NOT just magically boof us into heaven, he clearly wishes for an end to human suffering by stopping our possible evolution and forcing us to become soul entities. It would, if nothing else, just cause a pruning (BY THE WAY THAT'S A BAD THING).

Remove Astolfo and Shakespear. Make Atlanta less spergy. Focus more on Modred.
Compared to Apocrypha it is still miles better lol

Don't kill off best girl so early

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>lol
Spread your cancer elsewhere.

Apocrypha is worse than SAO, retard. It's that bad, Higashide is a bottom of the barrel writer.

Fate clearly says that every servant has some spiritual connection to their master they're summoned by, for whatever reason, they should've gave Fran 50% more romance building to make her death slightly more meaningfu;

it is

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It was decided early on that Fran would die so early. It's one of the reasons they didn't put Kintoki in the story, since he didn't fit as an antagonist.

Cool. Reddit is just behind the corner, "user".

>made the focus on Mordred/Her Master
>Have seigfried not sacrifice himself and instead be Mordreds main rival

You clearly haven't watched SAO, "user". Stop trying to fit in and admit it, since no one with a brain would say it's better than SAO. And that doesn't mean that SAO is good at all.

based newfriend phoneposter

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>siegself-inserter outs himself

ich nicht versteht

You sound like you have a very particular version of this story planned out in your head and while I mostly very much disagree I can understand your desire for radical changes given the dumpster fire it turned out as.
For me it's autism because I hate the Redman colour scheme on him and it's the canon design because of the shittiest justifications. He looks 10x better with white skin and black hair.

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Literally how?

slice your wrists and find out

asspull arthuria pendragon into this war so i can have some father (female) vs son (female) moments.

>Siegfried being on the same lvl as Mordred
The delusion of being a waifufag. Right from the beginning Siegfried is out of her league, Mordred is the same tier as Astolfo and Fran are.

He looks generic and awful with those colors. He doesn't need justification for the color scheme anyways, all that matters is that it looks good.

They had to kill Siegfried quickly or else he'd mop the floor with Mordred with Balmung deep in her ass. He's a dragon slayer and Mordred is dragon-aspected.

Giving Fran any early dearth wad bad, especially since they tried to give Caules a lot of focus afterwards. The issue is that he had no character to bounce off of at that point, and the subplot with his sister is the exact same "mages can't have human emotions" thing that TM has already done to death.

Him screaming "GET HIM, BERSERKER!" at Sieg was nice though.

Sieg is trash.

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All that delicious pasta.

That was KINO, unfortunately I don't have the webm.

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I like the idea of it, but not the actual execution. Fran had been irrelevant for so long at that point, and there really wasn't any relevant interaction between him and Sieg.

Rare footage of inhuman doll imitating emotions

KEK someone had a time to screencap a lazy ass crap

I don’t even know what you mean by it looking generic. I prefer that the Japanese HS actually look Japanese instead of like an Arab with bleached hair.

Sieg would have died from Mordred's blow if it hadn't been for Caules. Sieg and Fran just fought on the same side against Mordred, so the connection was minimal, but it was Caules' treatment of her which prompted her to revive Sieg. Plus, Sieg did help her set this up by buying time.

Name a more bland piece of cardboard than sieg

This doll had become human long ago.

Bullshit

Gudao/Gudako
>Spent 3 yrs of FGO yet still no fukin development even after Solomon singularity.

Every user using the word "cardboard" unironically.

Daily reminder that Sieg has no pee-pee because he was designed only as a mana battery and not as a sex slave.

This

>Celenek fucked nearby homunculi every chance were given in her vicinity.
Not like this Siegbro

Keep Jannu, but make her not be the MC, just a nice side story. Semi and Shirou fucking is something that needs to be witnessed, and Shirou should have just spent his life with his servant waifu instead of being an autist trying to cause instrumentality and make humanity an autism gestalt.

But user, making Astolfo masculine is a goddamn crime against humanity though and you deserve to be judged as a heretic for it.

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>semiramis and amakuso sex scene
First of all, Amakusa is a SAINTLY man and does not partake in adultery

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In all seriousness, based on fame, outside of the actual GOD servants that are the Savior class, no one should be able to even TOUCH Uncle Vlad.

He wanted to live, feared, showed courage against adversity, cared, befriended, learned empathised, despaired, doubted, questioned morality, longed, respected, raged, hated, loved. Made his own choices.
He only had some trouble with expressing them. Before you knew it he was sweet-talking Jeanne. But please, change my mind.

Seriously, I have a piece of double corrugated with the word "Sieg" drawn on it. I insult it daily for being so bland. It's a better than the fate of the "Astolfo" cardboard.

Hard to say since there's a lot to do but
I'd start with
>Remove Sieg as Mordred already covers any theme relevant to homunculi.
>Ignore the whole Demi-Servant thing and just play Jeanne straight to her actual character.
>Match the intended scale of the war with sieges and actual tactics in warfare where fights don't just boil down to sending out Servants and having them pointlessly skirmish until they decide to pop their ults.

If so, why would they give "female" homunculi mammaries?

What's with japanese kids and trying to trigger instrumentality?

FGO MC is canonically so generic that he is compatible with every Servant.

typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Homunculus
I guess it is only for art purpose, that is for readers, not for in-universe characters. Einzberns are the best alchemists and even they bother to give their homunculi these special organs in very few cases. Yggdmillennia homunculi are all mass produced and of worse quality than Eiznbern ones. There is literally no reason to believe that a regular doll like Sieg has something more than urethra to expulse waste.
I believe that their compatibility is something much more supernatural. Guda may even be beast of Alaya.

>Foxtail MC realized he was too bland so he tried wearing a different shirt

However, Siegfried's heart altered his body, prompting intense growth. There is a reason to believe he's packing a Balmung between his legs.

Maybe when he is in Siegfried's mode, in regular he is a dicklet.

Probably their fathers passing on their inability to act like decent human beings via being distant assholes. they had sex most times merely to do their "duty" of procreating and not out of actual love or desire, so now they have a generation of adults who don't know what love is, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.

Now they have an actual birth rate crisis because the society is so goddamn prudish and repressed overall because of a desire to uphold societal norms and other's opinions of themselves that the actual emotion and desire that goes into baby making has become all but offiically seen as unnecessary. This logical conundrum leads them to become pent up balls of frustration and disdain, resulting int he nuclear option being not just the one that seems like the best option, but also the most cathartic one. In the end everyone is close to each other and society is literally destroyed both physically and conceptually.

And all we had to do to prevent it was show the kids some love, teach them about the joys of touching flesh, get rid of mosiacs on all my JAV instead of making it actually illegal to see genetalia on video or on paper even and stop sacrificing all of their humanity just for a little more perceived productivity by staying late at work doing jack shit to give the appearance of being loyal to a company.

tl;dr: Take the mosiacs off my porn before you doom us all you fucking jap scum.

Honestly more Sieg fucking the entire cast of the servants would be noise

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Damn. Any advice if I visit Japan next year as a tourist?

Chinese Shirou wins

People barely even realize that Sieg falls in the same categories as Kazou from AirGear and Furuichi from Beelzebub. Side characters that has potential to be a MC trope except Sieg becomes one.

I'd say he'd be slightly above average.

Be normal, keep the weebing to a minimum and realize that even though not all of them absolutely love foreign guys, the majority actually do. I'm not saying don't have fun, but don't make the basis of your interaction on the assumption that everyone over there likes anime and manga and is the mecca of weebdom. Also if you go to Okinawa, remember that filipinas are not Japanese and that most of them over there are hookers who will literally feel up on your cock and let you rub up on them if you entertain them. They weren't with the going rate of 200 usd then and they probably aren't now.

*worth not with

Look, I know that you like to self-insert as Sieg but you need to face it, he can't fuck. He may be fucked as it is generally easier and one doesn't, in fact, need neither pussy nor asshole for the purpose, as he has mouth and hands. The most he could accomplish would be with his fingers or tongue because his dick serves only to remove urine.

You guys don't actually hate Jannu right? You guys only hate her in Apocrypha right?

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No worry on the physical relations part, I'm a devout Catholic so none of that stuff

Reminder that Jeanne
>Was extremely pious
>Was extremely nationalistic
>Was extremely pure
>Was extremely beautiful
>Had large breasts
>Had toned legs
>Had a slight tan
>Had black hair that she cut short
>Had a low, enthralling voice
>Was really smart despite being illiterate
>Was 5’2”
>Loved cannon
>Loved her country
>Loved God
>wanted to raise a family on the countryside after the war was over
>Had top tier bants
>Could maybe predict the future
>Was the best!

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I love her but the complaints about her in Apocrypha are valid.

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Why do you think I self-insert into anything? Because I like Sieg? You not only come off as immature but also make this conversation less satisfying than it should be.

In Fate she is doomed. Apocrypha completely destroyed her character. Shame, she could have been a great character.

Who would win between vlad x siegfried? Last battle was shit especially with jeanne being useless. Would that have been better?

Haha, fuck you. I've liked Jeanne from the start, FGO child.

You gotta live man, but I respect your conviction. Hopefully you find a nice girl then ditch the pig for superior 2d what the fuck is wrong with you.

Also if you get a pen pal, don't be like me and end up neglecting it.

I love her for who she was historically and her anime depiction is cute

>Why do you think I self-insert into anything? Because I like Sieg?
Yeah, that's right. Everyone who likes Sieg self-inserts as him. That is not that bad, I self-insert as Gudao and Hakuno. That said I am not buttblasted when someone points it out and I am not ashamed to admit it. But you and other Sieg lovers tend to become extremely defensive when the subject arises. Learn to cope.

"In Fate she is doomed because she didn't take (my) dick, but fear not, all other instances of her in other games love (my) dick, so it's fine." is what you're saying.

Vlad easily curbstomped Siegfried, in his domain he is absolute be it offensive or defensive. Kazikli bey + Defender of the Demonic State GG

My goodness. It's worse than I thought.

Karna too good. Hindu myth is capeshit.

Isnt siegfried completely invulnerable to outside damage though? At worse i see him be a tenis ball until vlad slows down or makes a mistake

Wew, projecting much. I will let you know that I would have nothing against her if she wasn't butchered in Apocrypha as I don't have anything against for example Artoria, even though her arc is finished and I am not self-inserting as her husbando. It is because Artorias story was much more compelling than Jeanne's and romance made sense. Apocrypha is an insult to every Fate fan.

It still doesn't make sense to me that Jeanne, who was surrounded by countless brave and attractive men, all of which put everything on the line for their homeland, would fall in love with some bland faggot. She fell for him so hard that she managed her way into a place where humans literally can't go unless an OP person like Merlin does something.

They should have spent more time on the actual war, and maybe not introduce a "villain" who is absolutely correct, so much so that they have to retroactively make him wrong.

Vlad can summon stakes inside his body, ignoring his Armor of Fafnir.

No. IRL Jeanne was pretty much a 2D character in the 3D world. They could've done a carbon copy of her with all the shit we know and she would've been great. Instead we got a blushing virgin who fell in love with a faggot.

What did you like about astolfo in apoc?

His dicc

Wow, all that shit took no time at all to develop. Amazing.

Disgusting but understandable.

Where is the upvote button?

Literally the whole story, spanning five (5) volumes.
Wow.

How many days is that in real time user? How many days did sieg start to become human, or was that just siegfried, cause its bullshit either way.

Change the black faction's servants. Darnic had 50 years to prepare to find the most powerful artifacts for the war yet he chose to summon shitters like Astolfo and Frankenstein? Even the caster who's name i can't remember wasn't all that good, someone like Honhenheim would have been a better and I imagine it wouldn't have been that hard to summon him since the azoth sword is common.

Reduce the number of servants from the start
Less of a spotlight to Sieg and Jeanne because they are lame as fuck

Artoria got dicked twice by a ginger no-body who forbade her from fighting because she was a girl for nearly half of the story and she still could kill him on day 14 because of a failed affection check which needs over 5 points not to happen. You can score almost 12 iirc before day 12 which is the deadline. But whatever.
Because the Fate franchise is so HELL-BENT on historical accuracy. Right, Nero? Right, Francis Drake? Right, all the other genderbends?

I will based user, I promise I won't make an ass out of Americans while over there as well

Both Artoria and Shirou are broken people, they are similar to a degree. Whatever you may post, it doesn't change the fact that they are a much better pair than Jeanne and Sieg.

In all of typemoon whos the worst character?

>Even the caster who's name i can't remember wasn't all that good
probably the strongest caster so far we've seen in anime medium

Medea is top 5 Casters in history, she would wreck the jew. Gilles is trash tier Caster. Nursery Rhyme is much stronger than Avicebron. Paracelsus doesn't count, right?

>Because the Fate franchise is so HELL-BENT on historical accuracy. Right, Nero? Right, Francis Drake? Right, all the other genderbends?
Who cares about them? Jeanne d'Arc's life and personality is heavily documented. And she wasan incredible character, they don't even need to add anything to make her an interesting character. Instead they chose to strip her down of what made her famous in the first place and turn her into Sieg's onahole. Even fucking Jeanne Alter is closer to the real Jeanne.

Medea destroys his ass. And don't get me started on NR's bullshit.

From the very first moment he was shown kindness, my dude. You become with what you socialize. But what would sociop/a/ths know about that?

I won't compare the two pairs because it's pointless, even though they share certain similarities. They are different people.

By the way, to all those whiners who bitch about Jeanne's character. Remind yourself why Gilles in Zero mistook Artoria for Jeanne and let it go.

>Remind yourself why Gilles in Zero mistook Artoria for Jeanne and let it go.
And? They are both women on the battlefield who share some similarities. But Gilles is also insane.

>Apocrypha romance is a carbon copy of Fate route, but worse
>I don't understand why people would compare them, it's pointless

>Medea is top 5 Casters in history
>dude a wormslut can't even defended against 18teenage girl
Avicebron do not excels at thaumaturgy or magecraft bullshitry but instead his np within certain time prep and resources makes him stands above the rest. Adam whose countinously rewritting the law of the world into garden of eden and absorbing every creation as a singular entity.

...

It only works becaue he has 6 others Servants protecting his ass. In a normal War he is out right at the start.

about a month or so, just like how they waited for a new moon before attacking HGoB so they can use Astolfo at full potential

>Tertiaries thinking that Medea is shit

As pointed, Adam could work only because special circumstances. Besides, she could probably Rule Breaker it.

Yeah, but strength is relative to fame, whether positive or negative. Dracula is an incredibly well known character, even if the modern association is stronger with the fictional version than the real person.

Gods seem to get a good leg up overall though, so you're right. Fucking poos

Karna is not mana efficient. He isn't guaranteed winning Sevant.

medea coud'nt do a thing without kojiro dumbass.
also he has complete access of Adam after Apocrypha look at 1st lostbelt
>Medea using rule breaker inside the garden of adam

His GO profile actually says that he is a guaranteed win as long as you're not a completely hopeless person unsuited to fighting at all.

Fame offers a bonus, like Cu would be stronger in Ireland compared to Japan, but he is still a fucking monster without it. Karna is a bullshit Servant on the same level as Gil or Ozzy, he doesn't need fame to destory 99% of all Servants.

As long as you are a decent Master you have a near 100% chance to win with Karna. He is that strong. His skill with the spear alone is enough to deal with most Servants, without having to rely on his NPs.

Apoc novel notes that even in an area with 0 fame, Karna's powerful enough himself that it doesn't really matter. He and Achilles are the strongest Servants in the war, and even Achilles is getting an equal fame boost to Vlad according to the novels.

Because Gilles knows Jeanne all too well. Also from the creators' own comments. Jeanne and Artoria are different pretty much in sex appeal.

Maybe because there aren't carbon copies? They share some similarities, but they are not the same.

>>Medea using rule breaker inside the garden of adam
I wouldn't be surprised. Her NP severs every magic. Edison could probably destroy him too.

>medea coud'nt do a thing without kojiro dumbass.
She can completely overwrite rules of the HGW. That is OP on its own. With access to leyline she can even control more Servants. Just give her an opportunity to steal one or contact with dissatisfied

Abandon the whole opposing team element. It wasn't really explored well and half the heroic spirits are forgettable trash anyway. Either make it more of an ensemble story than it was or make literally anyone but Sieg the main character as that fucker is a vacuum of character.
>umu is still the MC.
You can make it better, but it's fundamentally broken

>medea coud'nt do a thing without kojiro dumbass.
And? It's not like it's hard for her to summon Servants.

> wouldn't be surprised. Her NP severs every magic. Edison could probably destroy him too.
you're streching too much both Medea and RB capabilities
>She can completely overwrite rules of the HGW
almost everyone is capable of overwriting the rules to a certain extent, even Darnic or Zouken can do that shit>nd? It's not like it's hard for her to summon Servants.
>And? It's not like it's hard for her to summon Servants.
Did she manage to summon a servant after TA burst out of Kojiro in the Temple?
I do remember her being stab in the neck and then being stabbed 5 times and being stuff by worms, what a wormslut

Ok, umu is the MC but as awakened NPC, she has no powers and is master of Tamamo. Rest of the plot is copypaste from game because i'm lazy.

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It's not as if Kojiro didn't have serious limitations from her summoning. He's a fake heroic spirit who is extremely limited in ability outside of stopping someone from going up stairs, he couldn't move far from the magical focusing location he was tied to, and all it took for his chest to burst open and a Hassan to pop out was someone actually trying to summon an assassin servant

It isn't adultery as neither are currently married, it would be fornication. Unless they got married.

Destroyed the project, take the money and leave. I will make better use of it because I would enjoy it then

It is, but I couldn't remember the word for the life of me, even though I've had entire Catechumen discussions regarding it

There needs to be at least one straightforward HGW story to act as a generic "sacrifice", because every one seen so far has been a "subversion" of a formula that we've never seen in practice.

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An actual war would be great, but utterly ruthless. I doubt they have the balls to do it.

Sieg dies in the 2nd to last episode as a knight should for m'lady, and then La Pucelle finishes off the baddy, but also dies!

Everyone dies in each other's arms! Oh the tragedy! THE RAW EMOTIONS!!!

>t. Shakespeare

Isn't that exactly what zero was? The idea that there actually is a "straightforward HGW" is kind false though. It's a magic ritual that's heavily reliant on tricking a bunch of mages into being human sacrifices so somebody can get a shit ton of magic fuel at it's core, not a sporting event or something.

Everyone is super deformed, up the lewdity to Panty & Stocking w/ Garterbelt levels.

>Isn't that exactly what zero was?
>Gilles
>Mullet Priest
>Angra jury-rigging the Grail

Nah

>The guy who had assassin did sneaky shit
>Caster did a big ritual and everyone teamed up to gank him
Oh my how irregular sounding. It's not like they're all going to meet up in a colosseum or something.
Also Angra didn't really change the course of the grail war so much as the resolution of it, namely Gil or Kotomine would be much less likely to be alive

>deviated from her mission after it was finished
>thought she still had God's protection
>picked a fight with the Bergundians despite her new King telling her to stop it so he could get peace talks going

Should have stuck to the script Jeanne.

That's sort of a problem with the later-history servants; after 1400 or so, the documentation gets too good for them to get away with their outrageous bullshit.

Sir Francis Drake is a good example. The notion that he could have somehow been a women is absurd - if he were, the Dutch would absolutely have told us about it, because they never would have let the Spaniards live it down.

>Yeah, but strength is relative to fame, whether positive or negative

So then Hitler would be the most powerful possible servant.

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>Remove Sieg
Good
>Change Jeanne's character to be closer to the real one
Excellent
>Remove Astolfo
Wait, can we back the fuck up for a second here? I'm not gay or anything, but are you sure that's a good idea?

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Oh, that's a perfect idea because without Sieg, Astolfo means NOTHING.

I have a better idea, make Astolfo very accurate to his legend.
>Trap Astolfo
>super horny Astolfo
>Constantly trying to French his way into Jeanne's pussy

And they bicker in French, even in the English dub.

So you want a HGW where every mage follows the rules and employs gentlemanly duels?

in the novel vlad bypassed karna's invunerability by creating stakes inside his body and specially his heart
still karna kept fighting because of his strong willpower
now siegfried is also invunerable but less then karna and his willpower isn't that high. he would be on the floor in pain with all those stakes inside of him

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Remove Sieg. Remove Astolfo. Remove protag.

Does he have a month named after him?
(Julius Caesar does)
Is he part of a universally recognized holiday?
(Saint Nicholas does)
Does he have a cool one-liner that near everybody would recognize and associate with him?
("D'Oh!" ring a bell?)

Sure, in the west people think Hitler a big deal because he participated in the war that made America the current super-empire it is. But in the East they don't even associate his mini-mustache with him. It's still a semi-popular way of styling your facial hair.

>And they bicker in French,
You mean Latin and YeOldeFrench?

Naw, it's a dumb, because they're both French thing, I'm here for ridiculous bullshit.

remember that part of his legend is that he only dressed up once as a girl to try and cheer up his best bro Roland (who had gotten rejected by the woman he loved)
they didn't fuck, because roland was laughing so hard at the situation. and then they both whent on a rape spree, fucking over 400 women in a short period of time.

jeanne would constantly do her best to avoid him because (the real life one at least) would look down on him

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I told you they would constantly bicker. Astolfo is a lothario on the prowl of La Pussy.

I thought it was implied Drake is actually Elizabeth I in disguise?

karna got his ass handed to him by camelots favourite shit talker

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first time i'm hearing this

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The manga does its job well.

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>Astolfo shamelessly hits on the loli TRIGGERing her HARD
>dresses up as a girl to get in the female side of the onsen
>always on the prowl of La Pussy

>And they bicker in French, even in the English dub.
TA GUEUUUUUUUUUULE

Who would you keep & who would you change?

>still karna kept fighting because of his strong willpower
And also because he was burning the stakes inside with his flames and healing himself.

They dropped this plot point in F/GO and Extella Link.
It was implied in the first Extra game that Drake and Queen Elizabeth switched places.

Infinite Jannu beach episodes

Have the story focus mostly on Mordred and her master breaking away from Red Faction and operating independently.
Additionally, have one of the Black Faction be replaced with another Knight of the Round Table. Maybe Sir Kay or Lancelot in another Class.

>>(Saint Nicholas does)
I still think Saint Nicholas (True) would be one of the strongest servants ever at this point if he could do half the shit attributed to Santa Claus on top of the fame boost

keep mordred, jeanne, vlad, seraramis, achilles, atalanta and loli jack the ripper
dump the rest

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>Archer
Chiron was a fine choice
>Saber
While Siegfried was a good choice the fact that he chose to sacrfice himself for sieg causing the quality of apoc to drastically decrease makes me want to change him. Although Gawain or lancelot would be a good choice to face of vs mordred.
>Lancer
Vlad was a solid choice but ultimately he has no chance vs Karna since we know vlad will never use his vampire NP willingly. So Rama perhaps?
>Rider
Cu
>Caster
Paracelsus
>Berserker
Jekyl and Hyde
>Assassin
Not many strong assasins besides the obvious ones like king hassan. so I'd go with 100 face hassan for reconnaissance and surveillance.

Hot, post more.

>lancelot
Make him a Rider as an injoke for history buffs.

This basicly. Astolfo being a Horny motherfucker and Jeanne is trying to react like real-life jeanne (beating the shit out of him with the dull part of her sword) but hesitate because he is supposed to be a "Holy paladin of Charlemagne (who is a Christian hero)".

>beating the shit out of him with the dull part of her sword
I hope you mean the pommel.

No. I remember IRL Jeanne doing some crazy shit like beating a guy with the fuller (flat part of the sword) of her sword. Albeit with the scabbard on.

overrated slog

>the fuller (flat part of the sword)
The fuller isn't the flat part of the sword, it's the groove that goes along the length of the sword and serves to decrease the mass of the blade.
>Albeit with the scabbard on.
That might give the sword just enough mass and rigidity to actually hurt when you hit somebody with the flat part of the blade.
But I doubt it would be enough to beat the shit out of a servant.

>The fuller isn't the flat part of the sword, it's the groove that goes along the length of the sword and serves to decrease the mass of the blade.
Appologies then, English is not my mother language ; my mistake.
>That might give the sword just enough mass and rigidity to actually hurt when you hit somebody with the flat part of the blade.
But I doubt it would be enough to beat the shit out of a servant.
Jeanne was a bit crazy, if I remember right she did that to a random that tried to flirt someone he shouldn't have and she got pissed because christian (and traditional at that time) values.

>A random
I looked it up, she used it to swat away whore from the soldier and camps. By smacking them with it. So make sense, the purpose was to chasse them, not to trully hurt them.
Still, Jeanne don't take no THOT in her buisness.

>Keep the Jeanne and Sieg crap
Why ? That's like the worst thing (uh, ONE of the worst thing) in the dam series. Same with the Astolfo faggotry over Sieg.

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Nice list, but I disagree on cutting Siegfried. I'd put him in as Rider, so Mordred can have her Saber-to-Saber fight with Lancelot.
I'd cut Jekyl and Hyde and put Cu in as Berserker instead. I want to see what Nasu Cu's Warp-Spasm would look like.

What's his deal and his semen demon servent?

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Lying to each other while playing partners.

If you put Cu as berserker then we'd have to change the lancer class to something else since that'd make the black faction too OP. Also i doubt Caules would be able to control a berserker Cu which is why I gave him Dr jeklyl since he retains his sanity before transforming to hyde.

Jeanne shouldn't have had a romance in the first place. Making her a blushing virign was retarded. She knew what sex and love was. She just wasn't interested because she dedicated herself to God/the love of God.

If anything you could have something like "She had felt in love back when she was alive, but refused it and denied it because she choose duty above love" and make some drama about it (maybe some flashback with Gilles knowing about it).

Her duty ended with her death. Have you not paid attention to F/SN?

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Not him but isn't that supposed to be a Ruler's job to begin with?

A Ruler's job is to oversee the proper conduct of the Holy Grail War.

Jeanne wanted to start a family in the country side when the war was done. She was a good christian, but she was still a human

No. Fame buff doesn't make a weak servant strong, or a strong servant weak. And remember, Vlad had to be forced into Dracula mode.

Karna is horrible for mana, but he's so good that he's still an almost certain victory. The only ones I'd guess are better victory chances is something like Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Solomon, Archer Herc (or Archer-Avenger), or similar levels of bullshit.

I hate the fact that Sieg is not a perfect homunculus battery he has implied to be and that they can use magic circuits of any magus. Darnic and Adam were wasted plot potential.

Also the aftermath with the Mages Association is dumb. The Millenials killed dozens of mages and all Caules got is a slap on the wrist?

There's nothing unchristian about marriage and starting a family. She's also not a nun.

>I hate the fact that Sieg is not a perfect homunculus battery he has implied to be and that they can use magic circuits of any magus
It's not his fault Gordes created him a magus.

>Also the aftermath with the Mages Association is dumb. The Millenials killed dozens of mages and all Caules got is a slap on the wrist?
Oh, you think they got off scot free? Caules had lots of apologizing to do.

It's implied, yes. Things like Extra's Drake "being in Avalon" where Elizabeth I should be, etc.

wheelchair girl has a really impressive body when she stands up

>Also the aftermath with the Mages Association is dumb. The Millenials killed dozens of mages and all Caules got is a slap on the wrist?
You clearly don't know how the Clock Tower generally functions.

>Thinking she is saber
Love for God transcend death. If she died she also got Paradise (most definitly) and so is already with who she love.
Jeanne Romance was stupid.

There is no paradise in the Nasuverse, user.

Not for Heathen like, that for sure.

Joke aside my point still stand, Jeanne love God and Humanity first, giving her a blushing virigin romance is retarded. I could accept some "Past life" drama about love tough (but that imply good writting).

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like you* dammit

In other words, your point is that Jeanne shouldn't be considered human, even by herself.

once again jeanne is a human and had human weaknesses. Her biggest dream in life was living a happy and simple life with a loving husband and lovely children on the peaceful french countryside. By all means she should be romanacble, but it shouldn't e as easy as apocrypha made it seem to be

Hell yeah, he would be.

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>but it shouldn't e as easy as apocrypha made it seem to be
You think Apo made it easy? Nothing is easier than "romancing" Astolfo then. Also this sounds like FGO never existed. A few fights and waifus are practically humping your legs.

Enlighten me, then.

Giving all you have again and again for something isn't "inhuman". I would even say this is one of the Humane thing you can ever do. Selflessness is very much human.
That's a whole other matter, I was talking about the cliche shitty romance they gave her with my "Blushing virgin". Again yes a romance could be, but definitly not with a character like Sieg. If anything it should be someone she can trully admire for quality related to her value, like faith, bravery, capacity to sacrifice for other and duty. Honestly I could see her more easily have a pseudo-romance with a male servant.

Or hell Amakusa if you want to go full drama as they are forced to fight each other by conflicting ideal in the end.

Or just go full nostalgia and give her a secret love in her past life (I'm sure they can pick one of the numerous legendary Companions she had, some where suspected to love her, you can start from here) that she was never able to fullfill and make some character developpement on this. Like her being tormented by this and making her doubt. For exemple she could think about accepting Amakusa plan because she think it would somehow allow her to live her "lost/wasted" love, before going "I lived a good life and altough it was not perfect and happy ; and my dream was not realised I would not change it. I accept the fate and life God gave me, and am at peace with myself , I will continue to dream about the life I wanted and pray for it"
Basicly Amakusa refuse humanity fate and want to change it with his plan, while Jeanne have some kind of drama faith crisis but refind faith in God and Humanity and want to hope for a better future.
That's not great writting but I'm a random on a chinese comic imageboard at 1 : 30 am so ush.

Would Zwarte Piet/Black Pete/Père Fouettard be here too ?

I think it was horrible the way they kill off Asstolfo's original master getting her head sliced by Saber of Red.

>What would you have done differently?
Would have removed Sieg, Spartacus and Achilles and replaced them with Kintoki and George

>That's a whole other matter, I was talking about the cliche shitty romance they gave her with my "Blushing virgin". Again yes a romance could be, but definitly not with a character like Sieg. If anything it should be someone she can trully admire for quality related to her value, like faith, bravery, capacity to sacrifice for other and duty.
Guess what she saw in Sieg.
>Honestly I could see her more easily have a pseudo-romance with a male servant. Or hell Amakusa if you want to go full drama as they are forced to fight each other by conflicting ideal in the end.
HAHAHAHAHA now you're projecting your inner desires.
>Or just go full nostalgia and give her a secret love in her past life (I'm sure they can pick one of the numerous legendary Companions she had, some where suspected to love her, you can start from here) that she was never able to fullfill and make some character developpement on this. Like her being tormented by this and making her doubt. For exemple she could think about accepting Amakusa plan because she think it would somehow allow her to live her "lost/wasted" love, before going "I lived a good life and altough it was not perfect and happy ; and my dream was not realised I would not change it. I accept the fate and life God gave me, and am at peace with myself , I will continue to dream about the life I wanted and pray for it"
Even more projection. The final battle between Sieg and Amakusa was about selfishness vs selflessness, individual choice vs inevitable Salvation for all. It was very well themed. It didn't need two Saints to duke it out. Jeanne was sent here to stop Amakusa, not to "reminisce a wasted love". And as we had seen, Amakusa had all the tools he needed to effectively win with her in combat.
>Basicly Amakusa refuse humanity fate and want to change it with his plan.
And make a complete parody of himself? No, my good sir.

ST. Nicholas would be a top-tier Rider.

>Guess what she saw in Sieg.
How is he any of that ? He is a tasteless selfish puppet who got everything handed to him and was made because Nip (and obviously you too) need someone to self-insert as.
>HAHAHAHAHA now you're projecting your inner desires.
>"Hey you could even do that if this your type of story, there is a lot of possibility to make something different AND better"
>DUUUR YOUR PROJECTING
>Even more projection.
Tough I do like nostalgia story, this isn't even what I want, just another proposition ; stop sperging out because your Self-Insert wanking story get critics.
>The final battle between Sieg and Amakusa was about selfishness vs selflessness, individual choice vs inevitable Salvation for all. It was very well themed. It didn't need two Saints to duke it out. Jeanne was sent here to stop Amakusa, not to "reminisce a wasted love".
Except it wasn't well themed ? Selfishness VS Selfessness is something done and overdone in Fate ; and this one was so badly written you ended rooting for the "Vilain". So badly in fact they had to bullshit to make him in the wrong for random reason. And make retarded shit like even more character dying for Sieg because reason, Jeanne fucking giving up on God because reason all for Sieg retarded reason to oppose Amakusa. It was more obnxious that full retard shirou on the Fate road.
>Amakusa had all the tools he needed to effectively win with her in combat.
This isn't a argument, fight are narrative tool, as a writter you can make whatever you want of them. If you want Jeanne to win, she win, if you want Amakusa to win, he win.
>And make a complete parody of himself? No, my good sir.
I'm affraid I don't even know what you are trying to say here.

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SANTASSEMMBLE!!!

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>Dat Ripped as fuck St.Nicholas

Is that the secret CCC alter ego, Melthitler?

>higashide
>I`ve heard your prays Yea Forums

Hollywood would fuck this up. An animation would be amazing and almost a sure 10/10 barring any truly shitty and lazy jobs.

Side Note: Shoehorning in Terry Crews to any of these roles would make the movie instantly watchable if done by Hollywood. Also add in Mustafa (The other Old Spice guy) and let Michael Jae White (Black Dynamite) direct it/have a leading role. Make it happen.

Halt the sperg, user, or you'll start hitting yourself. You're taking this so personally I'm starting to fear for you. As you said, this is fiction. Jeanne could do whatever the author wanted her to do. She fell in love with Sieg. Just accept that and go to bed. It's very late.

Also, self-insertion is a no-no. Only villains do that.

Everyone's saying remove Sieg but let's brainstorm how to fix the cardboard

The IDEA of Sieg is cool but the way it's executed makes him into a boring gary stu

Have you...have you read the OP user ? This is litteraly a thread about what you would change in Apocrypha.

Yes, I remember. Lots of similar answers to the point of nausea and some catholic cringy drama. Nothing interesting, so I'll stick to the original idea. Thanks.

That's fine user. But it's also fine for people to dislike something and think it's waste it's potential, and wanting to improve it. Nothing force you to like it ; but I don't really see why you stick to this thread if you like nothing in it and are a fan of the original version -that you must be aware, is not very much liked (at least here).

Did Jeanne fall in love with Sieg for any particular reason? Or did she love him because the story called for it?

>She loved him because the story called for it
Very much soo.