Faked falling in love with Shichika and planned to kill him then herself after he helped her collect all the swords and...

She didn't fake it, did you even watch the show?

Ah yes, the brainlet way

Why did he kill everyone but the girl who was actually responsible for her death?

He killed the guy she liked, so they're even.

IIRC, as she's dying, she tells him to shut up, then starts thinking and gets her "strategist eyes". she then tells him that she lied about loving him and always planned to kill him, and that he needed to move on with his life, or something like that.

was i mistaken in interpreting her last statement as a lie, something she "planned" on the spot to help give him closure, even if it meant hating her, allowing him to move on with his life and be happy? i was crying like a school girl the whole time so its hard to recall

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...

>was i mistaken in interpreting her last statement as a lie, something she "planned" on the spot to help give him closure, even if it meant hating her, allowing him to move on with his life and be happy

I interpreted it in the same way. I don't think it was the author's intent to make you hate Togame and think she's a shit person when you've been attached to her for the entire series.

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That's basically how I interpreted it. She was trying to save him some grief since she was dying anyways.

first novel collection was released in english, how is it?

That couple was so cringe from start to end (included the "twist"), why people like this show again?

Because you're a faggot

That bait was so cringe from start to end (included the "twist"), why people like this bait again?

Except the eye only appears when she is being HONEST

>muh eye symbolism
katanafags are top autism

You have to understand her situation. In an ideal world she would have happily fallen in love with him but it wasn't. She was convinced that it was her fate that she should carry out her ancestor's plan and stop Japan being invaded by the West. Ironically her plan to have Shichika fall for her ultimately caused the plan to fail because Shichika killed the shogun as a person rather than a sword. Shichika disobeyed Togame's orders like her telling him not to die or injury himself because he could since he wasn't a sword and in the end killed the Shogun for his own personal reasons. At least that's how I see it.

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She didn't fake falling in love, she really did. But her overarching plot to avenge her father was more important to her than love (which I'm not shocked that people here didn't understand, with how western sensibilities push love > all mentality) and so despite loving him still decided to kill him.

Being put into a situation where she couldn't do it no matter what was a saving grace for her because it absolved her of the duty to avenge her father, thereby allowing Shichika to live, which was emotionally happier for her personally.

The reason she was willing to kill the man she loved is basically just eastern sensibilities of family and filial piety being the most important thing rather than romance.

He asked her if she liked the crazy revenged obsessed bitch, she answered with a No but doing an obvious "I am lying" gesture. This somehow stopped him from killing her.

>He killed the guy she liked, so they're even.
Nope, poor guy never had a chance.

Pretty sure it was the other way round

Yeah that's how I thought of it as well. Thought it was pretty obvious too.

Because Heitei was actually the closest thing Togame had to a friend, and she was just doing her 'duty' to her ancestor the same as Togame was. She didn't want to, but 'had' to, just like Togame was going to be 'forced' to kill Shichika in the end if she had won. The whole point was that everyone in that story lost everything due to duty and being someone else's sword.

It was all over and Shichika didn't blame her, because he knew that she ordered the man she loved to his death and killed her own best friend out of her duty as Shikizaki Kiki's descendant, just like he is Shikizaki Kiki's sword.

It wasn't malice or hatred, and he recognized that. You'll notice she was actually quite happy to die at the end there, just like he was. They were both seeking death for the things they had done in the pursuit of duty.

It's a very eastern/Confucian thing, and totally retarded from a Western viewpoint. It's pretty ingrained into the culture there, though, and 100% understandable from their reference point.

Actually, she ordered the guy to escape...he didn't listen.

Traitors die.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

She didn't ordered the guy to die, she ordered him to escape. He didn't and stayed to fight and end up dead.

I think your reading comprehension is broken.

The point is that Togame had wholly dedicated herself to ultimately pointless revenge for something that had happened in the past, to the extent that she was using even her own emotions as a means to that end. Hitei, meanwhile, didn't care whether her ancestor's plan succeeded or failed, she just wanted to get it over with as soon as possible. That's how the ending comes about: Shichika follows Hitei's example and and goes off to do his own thing, not bound by events that had happened in his previously or before he was even born. Indeed, the main, overarching theme of the series is letting go of the past, and the final scene is a perfect example of that.
>It's a very eastern/Confucian thing, and totally retarded from a Western viewpoint.
Nisio's works are far more strongly influenced by Western philosophy than Eastern. His first and most famous (in Japan) series is very much Nietzschean in most respects.

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Thanks for the spoilers, faggot.

I think 9 years is past the point where you're allowed to bitch

You had your chance

I wasn't watching anime 9 years ago.

Well, yeah. It's sort of all of that. Everyone was bound by the chains of duty and was someone else's sword, they lost everything pursuing those goals, and in the end it didn't even matter. Only two people finally found happiness after the end and that was mostly by doing their own thing after they lost everything. That's pretty much what the whole ending monologue is about.

You didn't even have pubes 9 years ago

I definitely had pubes when I was 15. Ask your mom if you need proof.

I'm now not even sure you stopped wetting yourself 9 years ago

The idea only appears when she schemes and tells the truth while scheming. This entire revelation of her plot to Shichika was both the truth and her ultimate scheme. Her opening lines upon being shot were her trying to figure out how to make a comeback from this.

She told Shichika the truth because she knew it would cement Shichika's goal. Total blatant honesty without a single lie, telling him exactly what she wanted and giving him the mindset needed to complete the goal. She dedefies herself in his eyes and then tells him what to do, a perfect set up to make him more attached, but also to make it so he doesn't blindly follow orders. This was her counterattack. She took the only course that would set her attack dog off his chains and without mercy.

t. brainlet

>faked falling in love
She didn't fake it.
>planned to kill him then herself
She didn't plan to kill herself.
>fulfil her ancestor's retarded Shogun coup plot
That's Hitei. Togane just wanted an excuse to have an audience with the shougun so she can assassinate him.

But wasn't Togames drive for her actions the fact that she had to see her father and (future) kingdom fall? She had all the freedom to just go on living undercover like she did for all those years. She doesn't even have a reason to hate Shichika since his father was used just like a sword and Shichika killed him later on.

And now I'm not sure where your face will be 9 seconds from now. Stuck to my shoe? Glued to the pavement? Smashed into a million little pieces? Guess we'll have to find out.

it's been 9 seconds where's his face

Stuck to my shoe. Give me a sec so I can scrape it off on the curb.

You guys are all retarded. Her dying confession was a plot to trick him into thinking she cared about him and throw him into grief so he would finish out her plot to take down the Shogunate. She NEVER gave a damn about Shichika. She knew damn well he was not a person, but a weapon. She only cared about revenge. Only Togamefags try to rationalize that she was actually a good person who cared about Shichika.

And now I've smashed it into a million little pieces by scraping too aggressively.

That scene was bitter and sad. What a fake.

You even post like a kid. Yea Forums is 18+ get out fag

How are you talking after I smashed your face into a million pieces?

You forgot to say omae wa mou shindeiru

This is maybe the most embarrassing post I've seen on this website in over a decade.

Whatever.

You want me to fuck you up too, little bitch? Cause I'll do it.

Post your one rep max for bench/squats

I HATE CHARACTER PROGRESSION HAIRCUTS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Why is Jun Aikawa so fucking strong? Like we have Yozuru Kagenui and Gaen Izuko as the peak of their respective positions as the strongest human and the smartest human but then you have Jun Aikawa who is smarter and stronger than both of them.

Literally fell from a 40 story height and came out unscratched. Who the fuck does that for essentially a normal human?

.

...

Cherio is cute

It was retarted but ost was cool.

Thanks for the spoiler.

Ubermensch archetype, user.
If you're asking about her strength more specifically: She was an incest baby brought up from birth to destroy the world before being deemed a failure and tossed aside in favor of Magokoro.

Alright that makes more sense. I've only read up to the second book and I figured there was something fucky going on.

katanagatari would be an amazing series if the episodes were roughly half as long. dialogue and most of the fights are dragged out too much and all of the ninja shit doesn't go anywhere or matter

>it would be a great series if it was everything it wasn't.

He lied about her being dead then killed himself

>Katanagatari was 10 years ago
>I still here

I know it's a niso series and he's obsessed with self sabotaging his own works with stupid shit but I fail to see how spending half an episode on "look how big his sisters power level is as she effortlessly dunks on these fodder ninjas" is a vital part of the series

>exposition on his sister and their history and background
>adds character on the "fodder ninjas"
????

Katanagatari is great. It's just not for you. Try watching DBZ

Maybe if you actually paid attention to the conversations then you'd realize why it matters to the story. I bet you're one of those faggots whining about the preview fight being a troll.

>"look how big his sisters power level is as she effortlessly dunks on these fodder ninjas"

It was pretty much the entire set-up for Episode 7 and provided context to what would happen in Episode 12. I'm not sure what's confusing about that.

Because the one who actually killed cheerio was the masked dude, who he killed. If anything, Hitei actually saved her from her shitty fate of mindless revenge. He felt grateful to her for that.

>muh eastern sensibilities
Why are trying to hard user? This series isn't that complicated. Togame was just a lying, backstabbing bitch who played with people's feeling and thus got punished in the end for her crimes. Just that simple.

But Hitei wanted to sabotage her ancestor's plan.

The fact of the matter is the scene is so well down and set up for that we can have all these interpretations into how sincere Togame's words were and what her true intentions were if she'd not gotten pumped full of Emonzaemon's hot load.

But who the fuck were Emonzaemon and Maniwani Phoenix?

That doujin though.

>katanagarbage

honestly this

Yes, that's the most likely answer and the one the narrative was pointing so heavily toward.
Sadly, everyone has their own idea of what the strategist eye means which changes the entire context of the death scene for them.
Which was likely intentional.

which one, Yea Forumsnon?

the "strategist eye" comes up when she thinks about her revenge.

How would she even kill Shichika? What can she do to him?

She could tell him to kill himself and he probably would do it.

Her cross eye is anime-original, it means whatever the anime staff think it means.

who said they thought she was a good person?

>spoiled the entire show in the OP
What a faggot.

Yeah. There's like 4 and none of them are particularly note worthy

Reminder that they fuck.
A lot.

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>her cross-eye is anime original
>Except it's on the cover of the first book.

>Zaregoto niggers desperately trying to pretend that they're relevant

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>Monogatarikike trying to pretend they've even read Zaregoto

Beyond what was already said, wasn't it for thematic reasons? The episode we were MEANT to get was a fight for the title of strongest swordsman between Shichika and Sabi. Problem is, it didn't matter which of the two won, because the strongest by far was the sister, who the episode focuses on. A running theme of the series is (argue whether or not that's a good idea) pointlessness. Everything everyone does in the show is ultimately for nothing.

That shit series heavily relies on muh surprise ending and shichika is essentially a half-assed araragi

It's not mentioned in the text, I mean. And Togame's costume is different too, she wears one of these.

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>i haven't watched the show but here's my uninformed opinion

>i'm a butthurt fag who fawn over shit tier characters

Spoilers user

Oh man I can not wait to have some of that delicious and crunchy taste of Cheerios.

People actually believed that? I thought it was pretty clear that she was lying.

Araragi is a half-assed Ii-kun.

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I mean I want to agree with you but the pictures inside the novel are actually representative of what is happening so what she is wearing in the picture is actually what she is wearing.

Ii-kun is just a twice-assed I-san from Imperfect Girl

>u mad xd lol

They aren't even similar retard, Boku is mostly existential dread while rrg is selfdestructive tendencies

I'll give Ii-kun credit, breaking nine of your own fingers to spite someone is actually really fucking impressive.

the absolute state of katanafaggots, no wonder you are the worst nisio fanbase

keep shitposting like the drooling retard you are

The translated novels worth picking up?

For Monogatari, Zaregoto or Katanagatari?

Let's say all 3?

I know monogatari has a box set while katanagatari just got released.

So the comparison is just as valid as the one I was replying to? Good.

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It's been a while. What do you mean being pointless ? What I took from the show was that all the characters that got fucked over were because they couldn't let go of the past and the act of doing that was pointless. Which is why hitei and shichika survived since they at least tried to be their own people.

she liked the Power he had and was planning on become his lover for personal gains.

Monogatari is fine except for one Nise translation, maybe two depending on whether you consider Lolicon and Pedophile as interachangeable concepts.
Zaregoto is good and Katanagatari is a pretty solid one.

Not him, but it does make sense. The sword hunt was pointless as Shichika ends up destroying them all anyway. For all the battles and confrontations, nobody really "gains" anything at the end while all but 2 or 3 members of the cast are KIA.

Oh yeah the actual plot to collect the swords.

>the series is pointlessness
Yep, somebody gets it.

I feel pointless as fuck after watching it, congrats, Nisio.

sauce, senpai (yes I know it's probably easy to find but I'm really tired)

What an artistic savant.

What about losing both of your hands in order to save your onii-chan?

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Less impressive. Manually breaking your own fingers to bitch someone out is much more impressive.

THAT'S how it ends? I could never force myself to watch until the end. It's boring shit.

Thanks for letting me know this shit would be a waste of my time. Glad I dropped it

Wish this artist adapted the first book, the first adaption was a terrible mix of fanfiction with bad art.

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>being in a car with jun

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Who cares, the show was shit.

>this amount of shit taste

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Her not caring if the plan succeeded was why she's alive at the end so to speak. The others couldn't live their own life due to being unable to let go of the duty they felt bound to and suffered for it.
Now this is the interesting shit.
A prequel focused on these hundreds of years old S tier fighters would be great if it were to ever happen.

swordtranslations.wordpress.com

the anime is shit anyway

The art was okay, although the characters could get a bit uncanny at times and Jun's design was honestly pretty terrible. My main issue was with how much shit was changed for no reason and in particular how Iori's awakening was turned into something other than a complete accident.
Speaking of Iori, I'm disappointed that she only appears in like three books. My impression, especially after she popped up in pic related, is that Nisio wants to use her more but hasn't found an opportunity.

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She didn't give two rat's asses about the shogunate. She was obsessed with getting revenge for her dad.

I know right people suffering for their principles fuck what a shitty story it would have been much better if the literally me just married and kissed the waifu so I could wank in the dark imagining all the heartwarming scenarios with me and the cute girl together

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oh no! you're so dangerous! ecks dee!

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You make it sound like she did something noble, something just. Like she tried her hardest to make the world a happier place and suffered for it. That's not the case. All she wanted was to murder a man and a few of his associates. A man who doesn't know she exists. She loved, murdered and stole in service of that goal. She inflicted the same suffering she suffered on to others. All the while she could have earnestly worked to restore her war torn homeland to it's former glory. She could have dedicated herself to gaining riches and facor at court. She could have built something. Could have had a child an set out to make a world were the horrors she suffered never came upon young girls like her. Instead she perpetuated the cycle of violence.

Togane is a good character, sure, but make no mistake; she not a good person.

I don't think that's what he means, user. The theme of legacy is perpetual in the series, and the series makes a point of damning the flaw that is the burning feelings of duty-driven revenge that was common in Edo-era Japon.

>You make it sound like she did something noble, something just
No I didn't you fucking retard. Maybe you should stick to reading sadpanda shit seeing your subhuman level of intellect.

>people suffering for their principles
It's literally there right in front of you. On a related note, I bet you can't even get past the panda. Stoopid and sexually frustrated ... what a pitiable user you are.

Togane's an outcast. She gains nothing from exacting revenge. The moment she achieves her objective nothing but condemnation and death waits for her. Nisio isn't interested in duty driven revenge or some other dead end concept or idea. He's a current day writer that writes about current day struggle even if he coats it all in imagagery of monsters and eccentric (a)-historical drama.

Niso even straight up spoils Tougane's mindset in the 8th chapter of Kyouto Yasuri. To the point that it wasn't laid bair already during her confrontation with Higeki Rinne in the 10th Episode.

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Being principled isn't inherently good. Fucking kids act up out of principle all the time you retard. Seriously your only issue with the anime is that the waifu wasn't a perfectly flawless girl that wins the literally me bowl
>on an unrelated note, I think I am very smart for doing a very basic logon to a website that isn't even closed registration
A newfag trying desperately to fit in to boot. Seriously faggots like you should be euthanised.

>Togane is a good character
Ha

Death was the best option for her tragic ass. I think by the end she was 50/50 on killing Shichika, so living beyond that point would have been torture for her.

>Being principled isn't inherently good
That's debatable.

>faggots like you should be euthanised
Helping people kill themselves is illegal where I live. I couldn't get someone to euthanise me I there was nothing more I wanted in the world.

I don't think Tougane is your typical comfy anime waifu, that's perfect and all smiles and able and ready to be in a warm loving relationship. She's damaged like N.H.K.'s Misaki and Bakemonogatari's Crabgahara. It makes Tougane a more rounded character, but makes her less lovable or moe.

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>That's debatable
It quite literally isn't. There is nothing virtuous about a child throwing a temper tantrum over not getting a full box of candy just because he believes a parent must serve all his desires.
>I don't think Tougane is your typical comfy anime waifu
And it's obvious that this is why you take issue with her. It's why these discussions always devolve into which girl should have won or how Tougane is terrible for not ending up with sword. It's never a discussion of the hurt blind conviction causes or the folly of revenge. You go in to this expecting a self-insert fantasy about a candy floss haired girl and get pissed off when there's an actual narrative in your boner's way.

What was the deal with the ninjas? They feel like team rocket tier side villains and their sob story wasn't sad at all.

>Wasn't sad at all
I don't know user the penguin kid was adorable and I closed my eyes when he died. My guess was that since he wrote each book a month from each other, he came up with the concept and since he never had the time to realise how retarded it was he went balls deep in literally killing every ninja

Or poison him if that fails.

>muh revenge
This is what I really can't get about Japanese works. In many case, the characters devotes their life to pursue something that happened before they were even born. Did they not hear the story about digging two graves?