Do you value writing or visual quality more in anime?

Writing and directing is most important. What's important about the visuals is how they are utilized. MSG 0083 and Belladonna of Sadness are both prime examples of this. The prior having absolutely stunning visuals but the whole thing being dogshit and the later being so minimalistic that people make fun of it being "anime" but it's fantastic anyways.
You can have a good show with bad visuals and good writing but not the other way around. Except for some rare cases I guess.

Why not bo- Oh wait this is a shitposting thread, isn't it?

>in a purely visual
Look, look, we've found the deaf guy.

I'm choosing 3DCG with good story over pretentious stuff like VEG

Conventionally I think anime has a lot more to offer in terms of art and animation. Writing is almost always the weakest link, in even the best of them. That's not to say that that must be the case, but that it just happens to be so.

But you, and all the other anons with that same opinion of yours realize that 90% of all anime are manga adaptations?

A lot are yeah but what has that got to do with anything?

I drop series with poor writing but I never rank seris with poor art up top

>Utena
>The pinnacle of this shit medium that most closely resembles high literature
>No substance
Neck yourself retard

Attached: 1549779673916.jpg (1280x914, 121K)

I value when visuals feed the narrative in clever ways.

What about having neither and watch SAO?

>giving a damn about plotautism when 90% of the medium is full of spineless dickless whimpy drama queen protagonist

A non-shitty MC is always the top priority.

Not sure what you think the average anime looks like, but SAO is easily top10% in regards to animation.

The most importnat thing in anime isn't the story, characterization, or the visuals. It's the voice acting

The most important thing in anime is big milkies and deep holes.

characterization has VA included you dumdum

is this how masturbators justify their shit taste

It's how the justify liking garbage like Redline, yes. Because somehow the visuals have subtance, despite that only being the case when the visuals actively contribute to the underlying narrative and themes through subtext, something that flick certainly doesn't do.

Akira and paprika were my first animoos

so whats up with mushishi its always in my recommended can anybody shed some light on it?

Yes, I was forcing a meme.

Attached: 1df62ec1b1779cc948ba8338470959d3.png (500x564, 50K)

An anime with no story or character dev is fucking garbage
>but durr look at the visuals durrr so nice the colours durr
neck yourself

>Bakemono
>FLCL
>Paprika

Those are fucking shit, and if you think K-ON is more about art than characters it's because you are a fucking idiot

No, but most of those shows don't fit that description.

Excuse me, some of those are also pretentious.

Attached: 1550609738740.jpg (1000x1000, 777K)

LoGH is one of the most straightforward anime I've ever seen. There's nothing to not get. I doubt Angel's Egg has anything to get either. It's mostly just an art showcase. Madoka is also fairly straightforward. I'd say Eva is too though at times important things are mentioned or shown in passing so some stuff may still be missed.

Everyone who thinks The Tatami Galaxy is pretentious is retarded and deserve to be shot on sight.

Tell me user, how would you write an anime with the Tatami Galaxy premise and have it not be "pretentios"
Calling TTG pretentious is just pure retardness.

>LoGH
>preparing for battle
>several episodes later
>still preparing for battle

Attached: 1345560150740.png (400x400, 6K)

"All style, no substance" is the go to insult for anything stylish you don't like,.

Ghost In The Shell, OPM, and Cowboy Bebop have no substance? Are people even being reasonable anymore when they are trying to sound cool and contrarian?

>imply it isn't possible to do its concept unpretentiously
>but it's not pretentious
?

>replying to a bait thread
>calling other people unreasonable

Attached: smug.png (420x248, 75K)

Tourists have the need to put down anime as not well written or it will threaten their modern westernshit media.
This is why you see all the lol anime can’t be smart or deep posts.

That's why I put " marks idiot. Do it with your definition of "pretentious" in mind so that It isn't pretentious.

If you wanted animation you'd be watching animation showcases (usually shorts) and not anime. Especially if you watch TV anime, which rarely ever has good animation or art.

90% is not well written, specially the ones claimed "deep"

Because you say so despite the development and care put into the themes? back to your home.

I love anime more than western film but I am not retarded enough to think that animation can ever be as thoroughly crafted or multi layered as live action.

It can not be because of the way either of them are produced. A live action director can shoot 20 hours worth of content and dispose of 90% of it during the editing process. He is less bound to a script or a storyboard, can adjust framing on a whim and in the middle of a sequence and is able to have his artistic vision flow freely at almost all times. True artistic spark and inspiration rarely happen during the planning process. They happen during filming the thing.

Animation directors don't have that sort of luxury. They need to stick to a script and a bunch of storyboards. Mid production adjustments are only possible to a certain extent. I doubt there even is a single anime feature film that animated twice the amount footage than what actually made it into the film. Cuts take too much time and effort to do it, even if a cut ends up not perfectly matching your vision anymore.

It's time for people to accept this. Anime fans as well as people who shit on animation. The two media aren't comparable beyond extremely superficial levels. They might be as soon as 3DCG takes over, since reanimating sequences will take less effort then.

Imagine being so retarded you think Ping Pong is pretentious.

That’s the opposite of good writing you dolt, western movies just go on a whim and edit later.
Anime/manga has to think about everything then make it.

On the other hand, anime isn't limited to what's physically possible to do. You could argue that CGI fills this role in live action movies but I think it's more limited unless you don't care if it stands out or not. Though anime these days uses lots of CGI too which stands out. Animation isn't limited either by what actors can do. Unless you're a really good director working with good actors (which isn't that common, maybe more common for experimentation in indie films) you have to limit your camerawork based on the ability of the actors, possibly requiring a large amount of cuts or using camerawork to obscure things. Animation allows more fantastic things and being able to portray them better.

Utena, GitS, Your Name, Akira, TTG, and Paprika all have a ton of substance.

dumb talking point regurgitator

Attached: 1550370369089.jpg (640x640, 85K)

Writing is what the final product ends up being. It doesn't matter if it was crafted on a whim or thoroughly crafted in a lab. Anime fans don't even appreciate the most well crafted shows of their artform because they are too retarded to keep track of the information. True artistic genius doesn't need a script to make a film coherent. It simply happens because the director is smart enough to pull it off anyway which results in the unreachable heights that live action cinema has reached.
That's exactly why they aren't comparable. They have different production process' and different strengths. People need to stop comparing them because they are audio-visual storytelling media. Something like Wonder would never work outside of animation, and that's why animation has its place. However, expecting to find the symbolic depth of live action in animation is about as retarded as pretending for it to manage to have it. Same goes for cinematography. It's so fucking easy in live-action compared to animation.

Honestly, I don't "believe" in aesthetics or narrative anymore.
I just see no reason to care.

A value a good story. Any story worth telling and told well is good. That could be something that's all style and no substance like Angel's Egg, or something that's all substance and no style like...
There's actually nothing that's all substance and no style. That's interesting. That would mean that OP is making a false dichotomy.

Why are you dismissing the symbolism depth in anime when just like live action it also has directing? seems like you're just biased.

Read again.

Most anime has either both strong writing and visuals OR shit writing and shit visuals. It's the difference between a smart or creative director/writer/producer(s) who has their own artistic vision of the project and ability to execute it and their retard counterparts. Note that strong visuals doesn't necessarily mean it's technically animated well, but rather that there is a strong aesthetic sense, otherwise stuff like VEG which mostly has showoffy extraneous animation which doesn't really serve any purpose, would move it into "art" territory but it doesn't. But I'd rather watch something with experimental style over literary fiction adapted straight into anime, because the potential to use the visual dimension in a new way is what makes the medium unique.

Utena is the only one on there that shouldn't be.

I see nothing but the director is somehow smarter in live action and anime can't have symbolism.

Attached: 1550520050771.jpg (744x694, 64K)

90% of the time when someone says something is "All Style No Substance" they just missed the fucking point of the show and didn't spend half a minute thinking about why the show is being presented as it is.

Characters >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Story > Art
A good character can drive a story despite the art.

>Madoka is also fairly straightforward
I bet you don't even fully get the gunshot scene, Madoka has a lot of hidden depth that you don't even know that you don't know.

Attached: GunShotScene.gif (400x225, 2.03M)

Utena should be the only one on there.

ART
>FLCL
>Akira
>Mind Game
>Evangelion
>Utena
>Pom Poko
>Space Dandy
>Kaiba
>Cat Soup
>Dead Leaves
>The Golden Bird
>Bobby's in Deep
>Angel's Egg
>Mononoke
>Genius Party
>Belladonna of Sadness
>Night on the Galactic Railroad
>The Tale of the Princess Kaguya
>Gosenzo-sama Banbanzai
>The Tatami Galaxy
>Casshern Sins

NOT ART
>Rakugo
>Tsuki ga Kirei
>Aria the Origination
>Kemono no Souja Erin
>Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
>Legend of the Galactic Heroes
>Shirobako
>Monster
>Seirei no Moribito
>Welcome to the NHK
>March Comes in like a Lion
>Nodame Cantabile
>Usagi Drop
>Planetes
>Hyouge Mono
>Kaiji: Ultimate Survivor
>Natsume Yuujinchou
>Yuru Camp
>The Garden of Words
>5 Centimeters per Second
>Non Non Biyori

Can we all agree with this?

Attached: kaiba.jpg (2880x4320, 2.26M)

>There's actually nothing that's all substance and no style.
kaiji

Attached: 1532499495331.png (700x800, 403K)

pic related is all substance and no style.

Attached: linearAlgebra.jpg (426x648, 23K)

Pretty agreeable list if you move Hyouge Mono up. It's just such a unique show and it got me to start making pottery as a hobby.

Night on the galactic railroad has aged pretty horribly imo. I'd move that down.

Art is god

The more a work of art is built upon the narrative, the further it distances itself from becoming artistically pure.

Attached: experimental.jpg (920x920, 219K)

Isn't "substance" part of the style of a show
what do you mean when you say substance anyway? narrative?

Self expression is not art and experimental is codeword for meaningless.
The Monalisa sure as hell wasn't made on experimental trash or self expression, neither was David, Moonlight Sonata etc.

The trash you posted is not art in any shape of form, it's just trash that decandent post-modernists eat up to feel better than old masters that had skills they'll never attain in their lives.

Style is meant to be the way of least effort, though.

>show has interesting or unusual visuals
ALL STYLE NO SUBSTANCE

Attached: bc3.png (636x773, 14K)

where's jojo?

Writing, it can look as pretty as it wants if the characters are all horrible I'm not going to be able to watch for long.

>not Hoffman and Kuntz

>NPC
Nice normalfag meme.

I prefer shows with no Style and no Substance because it feel like I'm better than the creators.

I, too, like Rerided

So MHA?

enjoyment >>>>>>>> anything else
who the fuck cares

The only one belonging on that list is ghost in the shell, and even then its still enjoyable to watch

Depends on the anime really.

GitS is one of the ones LEAST deserving to be on that list, what the hell.

Both The Tatami Galaxy and Ping Pong are quite simple and straightforward (and still great), I don't even know how you could begin to be pretentious about them.

Attached: 1456243661586.gif (520x720, 501K)

>urobutcher
>deep anything

>normalfag
I bet you also sperg when I use normie
n
o
r
m
i
e

Good style requires hundred animators
Good writing requires 1 writer

Good to know you haven't actually watched K-On.

These are some of the most retarded posts i've ever seen in over 9+ years in this shithole and countless shitposting threads not much diferent from this one, congratulations you've managed to be the lowest common denominators among common denominators. Low IQ indiviuals that will surely astounish genarations to come.

the 3 of them are shit.

t. pretentious fag

>me smart you dumb
>*mass replies*
lel that's epik

>Jin Roh
>style over substance

Are you per chance a reichfag?

Style IS substance you fucking mongo.
That being said anime is not the best place to go looking for it, so I mainly just enjoy anime based on the quality of cute girls in it.

100% correct. It's like the "naturalistic representation is the pinnacle of beauty!" crowd, except they don't even make a good point.

Give me som examples of all substance and no style

>all these people ITT getting baited so easily
Sun's out for a bit and it's summer already?

Attached: 1fcd07c2d059c62a57a48f8b9d687cf5.jpg (900x1350, 211K)

this is like preferring just cause 4 over papers please, the reason why there's a "game" in "game" is because of "gameplay", not "graphics"

OP asked a legit question, though. He just used the pic to get more people bumping his thread.

>all style, no substance-core
>BAKEMONOGATARI

Attached: serveimage.jpg (1200x866, 273K)

>plotfags

>Bakemonogatari
>”All style, no substance”
Ok fag

Attached: 2254C688-2AB9-4DC5-B111-9C5C1E5E1BB4.jpg (481x393, 119K)

If I just wanted a good story and characters, I'd read a book; there always has to be a worthwhile visual component there, both in anime and manga. It doesn't have to be amazing, it doesn't have to come at the expense of the writing, but I can't be bothered to watch a boring powerpoint presentation of stock images for 24 minutes. This goes for character designs too, not just sakuga-wank.

Granted, it also depends on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I want a visual spectacle, sometimes I want something with a meatier story.

Attached: 1546245309904.jpg (599x502, 128K)

Lurk for two years before posting.

>

lurk for two years before going on a thread to rant about something you don't like

listen to the language of the dubs king

You lurk for 4 years before posting you fucking garbage eater.

>n-no you
>not sageing
Apply yourself.

>

That's treason you faggot.

Shirobako

style is substance

that's garbage

substance is style, but style can never be substance

Style is literally substance by the dictionary definition. Violet Evergarden is a great example, it does a lot of it's world building through it's very detailed backgrounds.

Attached: AC01508A-30C2-4963-A12D-70C24F1DAE2F.jpg (661x544, 162K)

Don’t change the subject just because your argument is shit, normie

Attached: E1FFB499-D21A-4203-9690-B09A29AD3749.jpg (734x596, 35K)

>Your Name
>substance
Please, user.
Heavy agree with Utena in particular though.

Imagine thinking this unironically. Imagine waking up each and every day knowing this is your outlook on life and unironically trying to justify it too. Honestly, I’d probably kill myself

why are you here? go listen to audiioboks then

This. It's the buzzword newfags use to out themselves.

>Haibane
>No substance-core

Kill yourself.

Attached: 1544137697571s.jpg (125x120, 3K)

I prefer stories with good stories, visuals and chaacters at the same time. But what I hate is when an author tries to look smart, picks up an idea that sounds smart and deep and then just answers it with a bunch of cliches without truly exploring it. And there's always a ton of people appearing out of nowhere praising it as deep and profound.

Pic unrelated.

Attached: 03f.gif (540x293, 1.01M)

No. You confuse art with an expressive style.

Redline is good though.

Yeah, I think you nailed my feelings as well. It has less to do with style or substance, and more to do with hollow, surface-level pretentiousness.

Who keeps spamming this shit bait thread every day? Get a life.

>kaiji has no style

>utena
>resembles high literature
All it resembles is a train station bookstore YA shlock

It has style in its substance.

I prefer good bgm quality and some best scene, like yukiyuna

I'm willing to let your ridiculous statement pass but come on
>FLCL
>No substance
Fuck off. Also the Akira movie is rather light thematically but the manga is a masterpiece.

I'd kill myself if I ever became a post-modernist that's for damn sure.

>melodramatic
>world building that's never explored
>concept of morality based on never being tempted rather than defeating temptation. In other words morality = environment rather than morality = choice
>dude purgatory lmao, the tritest of twists these days
mono no aware fags act like everything in their pet genre is a masterpiece. How about you kys yourself if like the haibanes so much, fuck face

Attached: pinkrage.jpg (720x480, 46K)

Is this the new version of the overrated SHIT meme?

hand drawn animation>all

Attached: redline___sonoshee_01_by_ckmox-d4swvjb.png (4402x2465, 1.99M)

All of those works are story-driven though? I don't understand where any of those rely on aesthetics over any preconceived "depth".

>he says, posting a vector image
zoinks!

Plotfags have no place here. They're shallow pseuds

baseless and cyan-pilled

I didn't say it was good substance. It's just that it favors its plot far more than its visuals.