Cel Animation vs Digital Animation

that pic comes from the original fma anime which came out in 2003

Violet is so cute.

It was a pretty boring age given how there was only ten anime shows and films between those years.

Newfag spotted

Violet is the only defense of contrarians and its not even that aesthetically pleasing

I've always preferred cel animation. I wonder what anime would look like today if they never switched to digital. Maybe it would be just as badly animated, but shaded properly.

Zeta Gundam aged rather well, it's not fair to compare it to Violet, she doesn't stand much chance. Kamille is just a better girl.

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Soul vs Soulless

OVAs versus TV anime you fucking retard.
Now compare the average TV anime from that time period.

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Fine then: Pick the objectively best looking tv anime from the 80s or 90s and compare it with the objectively best looking OVA/film from the current era.

We've come so far.

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>Cherrypick again in a way that still favors pre-2000 against post-2000
Nice try

...

Oh you sweet summer child.

To be fair that's no longer an argument when VEG exists.

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>objectively
No such thing as objectively.
However the Tale of Princess Kaguya is absolutely stunning..

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All the people who don't understand the joke (ie, the ones who haven't watched Gundam 79) are only showing how little they know.

Cel vs Digital, what's your opinion?

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Love em all just the same cause I aint some whiny faggot

It sure is fun, especially when you are this new!

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No, that's not how it works. You can only be part of a single camp, faggot. Choose, now!

way to prove that user's point, retard.

Fucking die, otaking.

3d is garbage any clown can do, and in the case of Japan, with few exceptions, it does look like clowns made it.
Only absolute retards would prefer 3d heavy animation, although it can be justified or well done.

Kamille still looks bad.

The majority of anime between 1984 - 1990 didn't look like that, you're being disingenuous.

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Production process doesn't matter as long as it's good.

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top left is what good anime look like.

the alita film could have been the return of cell hand drawn animation. instead we got a generic cgi 3d film for the hundredth time

You can literally see the paint-tier gray lines all over his hair. Please don't be implying that's good looking.

What anime are in this?

I, sure do love plastic hair.

Japan is actually pretty great at 3D animation. It's just that in tv anime production the cg is not used to it's potential.
They can do good stuff when they want to.
youtube.com/watch?v=-GpXUrmSbkY
youtube.com/watch?v=4dYHSjsp4lo

Zoomers hate Cel animation and its expensive and takes up too much time to produce.

Not falling for your bait. Have a burg.

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Japanese movies can have good 3D visuals. As much as people shit on the 2013 Harlock movie for butchering the narrative, it looks great.

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Reality called, boy. This is literally something that can be done with MS paint.

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Gantz 0 was pretty good

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Oh boy another thread about MUH SHADING and MUH SCI-FI

Gainax confirmed for bros?

I'm not falling for it user. We can do this all night.

I only required 2 posts to finish this conversation, we don't need the entire night.

Anyone with a functioning eyeball can see the trash as well so bye bye burger-kun.

1976 TV

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Near the end of 99, The switch to old Cel and Digital started to become prominent. And wasn't a smooth transition I would say.

2017 TV

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damn, wish we could go back to this

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The first 6 Conan movies were Cel animated and they all looked great, the very first Digital animated Conan movie looked like dog shit.

not again

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Are those CGI trees and Photoshop trunk textures supposed to be impressive? The lighting and tone is good, but besides that no.

>the very first Digital animated Conan movie looked like dog shit
Haha oh wow, who could have expected a work made during the very early stages of exploring a completely new technique to look worse than what animators were used to using for 40 years. Absolutely unheard of haha. Like, mindblowing. Gotta tweet this asap.

>CGI trees
>CGI
That's not CGI.

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Overexposed shot. The water vessels look pretty good, but the background is just your typical postprocessed photo and the water is just meh CGI.

even today I think it's kind of hard to make the case that most high quality digital animation looks better

it looks 'good enough' for the budget. that's the reason they use it

one of the biggest things is that digital cels don't blend into atercolor backgrounds at all. so then they needed to start making digital backgrounds. then, because of that, details got lost...

This. Same applies to the tv show where it switches to digital shit somewhere around episode 400. Literally made me drop the series.

>cgi is ba-
*has better animation than 98% of the entire TV anime industry*

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To be fair, the artwork didn't really begin to after anime switched to digital. It started to go bad at the end of 2010.

there is only one tree drawn, the rest is copypasted. and still if thats used in a scene that pans from top to bottom, no one would notice so its a really smart move to save costs.

Modern anime looks great. Only a nit picking faggot would deny this.
I'm currently watching Comic Girls and there's consistent 4-grade shading.

Most of it didnt look like that either, you are just cherry picking in the opposite direction.

This whole debate is so stale at this point, jesus christ. I wish we could talk about old anime without it devolving into some old versus new bullshit every single time.

Also, OP, the Alita OVA was from 93.

more like otafag!

this. the producers just make things bigger, or more visually busy due to the ease of digital.

they hardly think about shot composition at all any more. not that many did before, either. but retards are easily impressed by key animation and EPIC backgrounds. this board is turning into fucking reddit

Mitsuo Iso is cheating though.

>kirarashit
too bad the show is garbage
also that fucking bloom and oversaturated colors like everything else by them

You have brain damage if you think they are copy pasted and can't notice the different details.

The lost decade of japan

Last time I checked copy pasting means to copy and paste, yet the branch placement is different, the perspective is different and the roots and leaves that are part of the crown are entirely different and don't overlap at all. I don't even think that this look good but you might wanna get an appointment at your local optician since your eyes clearly are lacking of you can't tell any of those.

Personal preference is cel mainly because I like the roughness and palette. I also mainly watch 70s anime so I'm a much more adjusted to it. I'll watch anything though and I really don't think there is a time when "all anime looks like shit."
I do wish people would stop judging the entirely of cell animated anime on 80s OVAs those look absolutely fantastic but are not an indicator of all anime produced like that. Plenty of anime is janky like gif related, they are still great shows but pretended like the sheer fact that they are cell-animated means that they are better is misinformed. Digital animation can look good, insisting that it can't just makes you look stupid and gives all of us a bad name.
We should all just judge each anime individually based on it's own individual merits as opposed to assuming that the animation method decides the quality. Often time there are other factors at play as well such as directing style and character design which can be of a huge impact on the work. Lastly I just want to say that no matter what side you fall under limiting yourself to one method of animation cuts off a lot of good anime and it is retarded to do so. Don't be that guy.

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I don't know, that artstyle/character design style is very consistent among the early-mid 80s, in the period where anime girls were rounder unlike mid-late 80s where anime girls consistently started having semi-realistic proportions.

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>I wish we could talk about old anime without it devolving into some old versus new bullshit every single time.
I hope you don't frequent pre2000s threads or otherwise you have noone to blame but yourself.

Pre2000s threads usually aren't supposed to be competitions on what is best. Sometimes butthurt people show up and start arguing anyway, but that's all.

They are always competitions because the people who browse them lack the ability to talk positively about what they pretend to like without talking negatively about what they choose to dislike. It always devolves into
>fuck digital
because none of the people in there can actually articulate their thought properly, especially whne you tell them to stop attaching buzzwords and exaggerating adjectives to everything they say. They have a very hard time once they can't say
>look absolutely incredible, so much weight, so much soul, strong X, impeccable Y etc.
anymore.

>cry about the difficulty of lighting anime shot on film for generations
>liberated of that difficulty
>suddenly there's an explosion of artistic expression...
Oh wait no there wasn't they just slapped shitty filters on top of everything.
Talking about the artistic merits is, at this point a red herring. Everything done to anime since the digital switch, every single change has been to speed up production. That's all. Nothing else matters because people keep buying. Enjoy your 80 show seasons. Anime will only go wider and wider until the market reacts negatively.

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>Wingman
English subs when?
youtube.com/watch?v=jTI9EZglHX4

your gif unironically looks better than most anime these days

I've read the manga, it's not that good. It's basically teenage wish-fulfillment fantasy where an otaku obsessed with toku/anime becomes a toku super hero with cute girls constantly on his dick. Comes off as the mangaka's self-insert fantasy.

Alita/Gally is so fucking cute in the OVA. If someone could make a webm of this from a better quality source, I'd appreciate it.

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The quality of the art is quite low even for that time period is more so the issue. Likewise that was being used to represent the average style of everything from 84-90, which begins right as that art style started to lose out to more detailed stuff and higher degrees of art and animation quality was rapidly popping up more and more.

Yes.

what a giant faggot you are

Paradise Kiss (bottom right) is a great example of digital animation that looks good. A lot of it has to do with compositing, though the series' detailed designs didn't hurt. Shame they copped out during the fashion show in the last episode.

RIP Takahata

There are just as many people who come in to say older anime is total shit and do the exact same thing, mixed in with pretty obvious intent to just start fights to get attention, or to satisfy some sort of ego trip about their imagined intellectual superiority, and the same lack of ability to make real points without vagueness or hyperbole. However, they don't go out and make "Old anime is so shit, what happened?" so incessantly, so I'll give them that. It's probably 4 or 5 people between both sides, were most people don't think that way in either direction.

>call to rationalism
>on Yea Forums
Pissing in the ocean.

This is Takahata as well

> (your) image
That meme I had seen before elsewhere, what's going on?

Evolution of the average Anime protagonist

People who actually make anime for a living would want its creation to be made more convenient. There's nothing wrong with tools being improved to reduce their workload, especially since great-looking anime can still be made using those tools. It's the shitty game and LN adaptations padding out those "80 show seasons" that are the actual problem.

Anime today would be good if they stopped using filters for everything I'M SICK OF IT IT HURTS MY EYES

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It's 12 at night I'm exhausted and not thinking straight. You're entirely right I don't know why I'm bothering.

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It doesn't really make a difference when there were so many more ovas during that time than TV anime. They are a better representation of what anime way like when so few tv shows were actually coming out. There is also a reason why HSK is so unknown though, it definitely is below the average. I do agree that TV anime hit way higher peaks in the late 90s and 21st century visually in a lot of ways though.

The boilerplate doesn't get swapped out between shows.

Perhaps the best versus thing anyone can do is compare Mahoromatic S1 and S2. S1 was the last cel anime Gainax ever did. Its has nearly the same production staff and the only varible change is if it is cel or not.

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That'd be misleading, since those were the early days of digital. Maybe if it were the same creative team AND it were produced in 2012 (instead of 2002), that would be a fair comparison.

>it's basically teenage wish-fulfillment fantasy
This is an anime board, after all.

The transformers movie is the best looking anime of all time cel>digi

is that even a question?

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cel had better illustrations but the animation was pretty shit and would end up getting simplified in complex scenes or the cels would just "tween" across the screen while only the mouths moved. Digital tends to have way better movement, aka looks great when there is a lot of effort/passion but most modern anime are able to work with a lower bar of quality

>comparing DYRL to TV anime rather than the TV version of Macross

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Thank you.

Are those things supposed to be braids?

How the fuck can you compare? The style including faces, color palettes, shadow steps, budget-wise priorities and the adaptions are different as fuck.

Ironic

It's not so much the medium as much as somewhere along the line they decided they liked less saturated palettes and flatter (and presumably cheaper) shading

faggots who keep harping about digital being inferior never really consider stuff like Gankutsuou being possible only with digital

Those are all from the same show. Same episode, even.

Digital. It can do everything cell does and more to an extent that retards here couldn't even comprehend.

Cel isn't an artstyle, you fucking idiots.

Yet it's somehow giving us less. Potential means jackshit when the people aren't using it right.

Which one does Redline count as?

digital animation looked like absolute shit until about 2009. not saying it's great now, but it's better than it was before. unless it's done by some cheapo studio. cel animation all the way.

I belive that was all cel animation despite being made in the digital era. icould be wrong. Might be confusing it with the fact it was all handrawn with no CGI.

I watched all of City Hunter recently which is 80's anime gold.

City Hunter 1 (50+ eps)
City Hunter 2 (60+ eps)
City Hunter 3 (13 eps)
City Hunter '91 (13 eps)
5 or 6 movies
Angel Heart (non-canon spinoff 50 eps)

Ask me anything.

it was cels but with very high saturation

>I can cherry pick too
>worst looking one is "anime now"
What did he mean by this?

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This

>30 years of technological advancement
>muh budget though
When will this shitty meme die

No, you idiots. Redline was as digital as any anime produced at the same time. Half the time I see threads like this, I wonder how many people even know what the distinction they're trying to draw with this "cel vs digital" debate even is. Do they know even the slightest thing about anime production?

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To think that one user pissed Otaking off so much that he doesn't stream anymore.

"Weight" in animation comes from the animator's work, it has nothing to do with the method of photography and composite.

Did you actually find City Hunter's "humor" funny?

What Can I skip? I want to watch some of it, but not 100+ eps. I was thinking about watching the canon episodes from season 1 and all the movies.

Judging from the posts in this thread, there are people in this thread who unironically believe digital anime isn't hand drawn.

It is but the coloring process is also digital

Alita is cute, and you should go watch her movie.

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digital is objectively better.

it's the same argument as film vs digital, star wars force awakens and last jedi were shot on film to pander to nostalgia tards that complained about digital and both movies still sucked.

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based and trapilled

Cute Rey.

It's Another
>Cel animation is better than Digital
Thread
youtu.be/1wAVpcvIrQM

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>long running successful shows
vs
>shows from the 80s

>liking forced animation aka Cel animation
how new

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what in the actual fuck?

Cel Animate characters
Digital Animate backgrounds
Prove me wrong

Name 50 good anime from this decade. Oh wait, you can't.

Don't respond to obvious morons.

What if he refered to himself as new?

Best I can do is like 15.

Both is fine, it's down to the artist at the end of the day, that being said you get more bang for your buck with digital these days, going back to cel would be a waste of resources and a gimmick more than anything.

>those metal hands
Lmao old anime looked like trash.

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From memory, and obviously highly subjective:

Madoka
Usagi Drop
Tatami Galaxy
Night is Short Walk on Girl
Ping Pong
Katanagatari
Made in Abyss
Rakugo
Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya
K-On!! + Movie
Mushishi Zoku Shou
Eccentric Family
Wolf Children
Kimi no Na wa (unironically)
One Punch Man
Mob Psycho 100
Chihayafuru
Tsuritama
Yamato 2199, 2202
Shirobako
Penguindrum
Houseki no Kuni
Nichijou
Barakamon
Girls und Panzer
Space Dandy
The Wind Rises
Tale of Princess Kaguya
Sakamichi no Apollon (despite conclusion)
Kono Sekai no Katasumi ni
Tsuki ga Kirei (story more than animation)
Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun
Tamako Love Story (not the TV series)
Silver Spoon
Kuragehime
Doukyuusei
Horimiya OVA
Koi wa Ameagari no You ni
Little Witch Academia (kickstarter OVA)
Tanaka-kun is Listless
Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita
Asagao to Kase-san OVA
Lupin III (Jigen's Gravestone only)
Miss Hokusai
Maquia (CG dragons notwithstanding)
Saraiya Goyou
Death Billiards (not Parade)
Kick Heart
Haikyuu (specifically season 3)
When Marnie was There

i don't mind digital but i think the colors are too bright in most animes, and i don't like it

haha nice.

cel has a nice look

Pretty easy to be honest. Especially if I am allowed to list anthologies or shorts. But even without them it's not particularly hard. I'd have a harder time listing 50 good anime from the 90s. In fact, I think I'd barely be able to list 25, despite having seen 250+ from that decade, including all the supposed good ones.

It does but it's not like you can't simulate the same look through digital means,

Also i'm assuming many people that looks at cel animation have no idea that it's not supposed to look the way it does on your modern monitor, you'd have to compensate with adjustments to your gamma to simulate CRT levels to get the intended look.

This
TV anime has lost "weight" because of constraints put on animators, or general laziness. It's not a matter of cel vs digital
Look at big budget animated movies
my.mixtape.moe/mcjpda.webm

Sure, I'll start in Winter 2011 so no one can complain and pick two at random from a (usually) much larger pool of "good" TV anime that aired during each of the 33 seasons since then:

1. Hourou Musuko
2. Madoka
3. Nichijou
4. Hyougemono
5. Yuru Yuri
6. Dantalion no Shouka
7. Ben-To
8. Chihayafuru
9. Nichibros
10. Kill Me Baby (or Mouretsu Pirates if you have no sense of humor)
11. Space Brothers
12. Shirokuma Cafe
13. Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita
14. Joshiraku
15. Shinsekai Yori
16. Girls Und Panzer
17. Mondaiji
18. GJ-bu
19. Aku no Hana
20. Yuyushiki
21. Gatchaman CROWDS
22. Uchouten Kazoku
23. Non Non Biyori
24. Log Horizon
BONUS. Samurai Flamenco
25. Noragami
26. Nobunagun
27. Ping-Pong the Animation
28. Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou
29. Barakamon
30. Sabagebu
31. Shirobako
32. Madan no Ou to Vanadis (I am fucking serious, but fine, Amaburi otherwise)
33. Yurikuma Arashi
34. Yoru no Yatterman
35. Ore Monogatari!!
36. Etotama
37. Wakako-Zake
38. Himouto! Umaru-chan
39. Concrete Revolutio
40. One Punch Man
41. Hai to Gensou no Grimgar
42. Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu
43. Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge
44. Flying Witch
45. Mob Psycho 100
46. Amanchu!
47. 3-gatsu no Lion
48. Flip Flappers
49. Kemono Friends
50. Youjo Senki
51. Tsuki ga Kirei
52. Kabukibu!
53. Made in Abyss
54. Tsurezure Children
55. Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou
56. Houseki no Kuni
57. Pop Team Epic
58. Yuru Camp
59. Hinamatsuri
60. GeGeGe no Kitarou (Hisone to Maso-tan if you refuse to accept any anime with a previous history)
61. Asobi Asobase
62. Hataraku Saibou
63. SSSS.GRIDMAN
64. Merc Storia
65. Hulaing Babies
66. Yakusoku no Neverland

"Good" is a pretty low hurdle. Probably 80% of you hate 90% of the stuff on this list, but every item is going to have at least a few vocal defenders who loved it and love to talk about it, which is as close to the definition of "good" as we can get.

It's only harder to do one from the 90s because less anime came out during that time. There's still plenty to list 50 good ones, though - they don't all have to be masterpieces. You can do 15 films by throwing all the Ghiblis, Perfect Blue, GitS, EoE, etc. on there. OVAs could take another 15 slots, half of which would be mechashit. Then just take the ~20 best TV series, the bulk of which would come from the back half of the decade.

I mean the cell animation is nice and good for more emotional shows in my opinion whereas for more comedic shows digital looks better

>Hataraku Saibou
>Promised Neverland
Stuff like this probably shouldn't be listed, as it suffers from the exact issues celfags are likely to hate - 1) lousy backgrounds and 2) lack of detailed character art (despite competent design work).

Wow, thanks for your insight. How are you so smart???

not really, it could come from variable line width which isn't used much anymore

>as it suffers from the exact issues celfags are likely to hate
Nobody gives a shit about them, though. They will also list Outlaw Star as a good show despite it a) not being one and b) being littered with QUALITY and off model animation. Should I now say that this is the exact issue digitalfags are likely to hate? Celfags are gonna hate digital no matter what, so there's no point in taking their opinions into consideration when listing "good" anime from the 10s.

What's your problem? That user said "I'd barely be able to list 25," even though 50 should be easy, so I left a short reply to the contrary.

>nobody gives a shit about them though
You're right, by and large, but you're posting in one of their threads. Taking that into consideration, a list of "good anime" can afford to exclude the 5% of stuff they'd most vocally object to.

Hey, I was just posting "good" anime, not necessarily stuff with good animation—I mean, Kill Me Baby and Kabukibu! look like a cat puked on a dismembered snot otter which was then thrown onto a garbage fire while a drunk was shitting into the same dumpster, but I will fight anyone who says that they're aren't "good anime."

>in one of their threads
Read the OP again, mouth-breather.

It's like if someone made a wish on a monkey's paw for more anime to be accessible,and it goes, "Granted, but it's mostly mediocre crap."

Without even going into OVAs or films.

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I only really like Balsa on the right here to be honest. Top right guy is fine too I guess.

Contrast isn't the same as saturation. I love contrast and modern anime miss this too often, but I hate oversaturated shit. Contrast is about light and shadow for me not about epilepsy inducing bright red VS epilepsy inducing green as in redline or any other modern anime

Nobody gives a shit about your personal and extremely biased opinions, though.

>Heybot
Based and redpilled

Post is literally asking for opinions you fucking retard. And whose opinion would I give other than mine? Of course it's biased. If you are used to parroting something other people say that's your prerogative.

Not the one you responded to, mouth-breather.

Oh please. Do you seriously think that anyone but a celfag would post this thread?

>not necessarily stuff with good animation
I didn't say anything about animation.

>Fractale
You cannot be serious.

Drawings vs Animation

Fuck off Paul

Unlike other kinds of 2D animation, anime didn't suffer from the death of cel that much. That's because keyframes are still hand-drawn, and that's what really matters. Of course, there still was that awkward period in early to mid 00s when no one knew how to color the digital frames correctly, and everything looked either bleak as shit or super-saturated with every fucking rock painted in primary colors.
Still, no one would argue against cel being way more soulful. It's like comparing digital art to real life art, something is always missing there.

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Alright, updated. It's impressive how far we've come.

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Filtered.

why it's always expensive OVA/Movie cel animation vs cheap TV digital animation?

joking aside, anime back then was pretty rare so people invest more and hoping it would be good, but mostly not

Macross looks leagues better than whatever that oily shit on the right is.

Old anime was so go--

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Yes, yes boomer, it certainl does haha *sip*.

Go back.

Why can't anime look this good again?

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Soul80/Soulles after.

This is trippy as shit. I love it.

Hey user, could you help me fix those cels? I think I've gotten a bit of a leak. Good that noone could see this on DVD rips, lol.

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Pic related was from the 90s.

1984 - 1990: Soul
2002 - Present Day: Souless

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I don't think we are being fair, though. I mean, the 80s sure had some great experimental animation like this.

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>early Havok physics.jpg

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Look at the soul this has.

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Is she ded?

Why Japan lost soul? Being just a soulless vessels is sucks and sad.

Is this porn?

Where did she get all those balls from? Is standing with a basket of balls on her side?

You're not allowed to question cel animation. It's good ok?

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Shoujo Yea Forums anime from the 60s I think
I forget the name

I know it's Attack No 1, user. I was joking.

Notice how no one was able to prove that modern anime can hold a candle to the 80s-90s. Really makes you think.

Get your soul back, you Japanese animation.

Old good
New bad

Ok?

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Good is good
Bad is bad

This

Japan is the last bastion of soulful animation. Everyone else moved on to pure CG, be it ugly 3D garbage or ugly Flash tweening garbage.
Hand-drawn frames are the reason why anime looks superior to everything else nowadays.

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You can compare NGE (tv show) with the best looking anime/movie/OVA from the last two decades and I will guarantee you that the former looks better.

Not anymore itseems.

OK boomer, since you can't even identify Macross Frontier, one of the best selling anime of all time, I've replaced it with something closer to your time. Hope you can identify it this time.

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Kiil la kill was 80's as fuck.

BEHOLD

The soul™

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this

its funny how good drawn animation can be timeless.

But yet artist don't use it.

From the same episode
sakugabooru.com/post/show/29184
sakugabooru.com/post/show/29186

based

Are you trying to imply something there or was I just supposed to be impressed by pink bubbles and static bots firing lasers?

>pink bubbles
>impressive

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NGE is a poor example because when they burned through their budget, things turned bad FAST. In the last episode, Sadamoto had to draw frames himself with a fucking marker pen.

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It would have been nice if the switch to digital freed up resources to be used elsewhere, instead of just being a cost-saving measure.

There's barely any animation in either of those. Now let's have a look at a below average movie from the digital arts era
sakugabooru.com/post/show/5915
sakugabooru.com/post/show/5923
sakugabooru.com/post/show/5905

They really don't make like that anymore.

We have reached unthinkable levels of nigger right here.

Please don't point out that they blew budget on key scenes, some of which they even reused later on, and then were forced to show is 2 minute stilframes. This was a conscious decision they made. An artistic decision. Nothing else!

80s aesthetics are peak

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I'm reminded of the big battle scene in the final episode of Gunbuster with cutouts pasted on top of backgrounds. It did end up working really well though; the choice of soundtrack helped a lot.

>Yea Forums tranny posting the same exact frame over and over again because he has nothing else
Go back to watching Steven Universe, you fag. I'm sure in the next episode, someone there would actually bother to look at character reference sheets before clicking away in their ToonBoom or whatever (because animation is too hard for those Cali fags).

unironically kill yourself if you think these are actually good

Remeber cel animation? The sickest era ever. Look at those 4 exact same frames being on loop for 10-15 seconds at a time. I can hardly fathom the amount of effort that must have went into a sequences such as this. Haha, cels, I tell you.
sakugabooru.com/post/show/30590

>there are people itt. RIGHT NOW who think anime didn't peak in the 80s/90s

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None of that is impressive. It's obvious CGI.

Yes, yes my fellow boomer.

Anime as a genre didn't but the animation certainly did. Never again would there be a studio autistic enough to make a full 30 fps movie with cel animation anywhere in the world.

>obvious CGI
Yes, yes, the same way this is CGI, am I right?
sakugabooru.com/post/show/60770

This would be fine. Gundam even started using digital stuff like CG space colonies back when they still used cel animation for everything else.

Looks much better.

But it's true. CGI can hardly ever be impressive. If you want impressive modern animation - post OPM or something.
sakugabooru.com/post/show/17755

Why am I suddenly a Yea Forums tranny? Oh, because I shat on your shit animu by posting abhorrent CGI?
Seethe harder nigger.

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Yeah, that stuff takes way too much effort and budget.

>look this isn't CGI because I can find genga of it, but everything that I can't find genga of is CGI lol
Haha, us boomers I tell you! Truly a breed to admire!

OPM looked good because everything was seamless. Your examples look like shit because even if they were hand-drawn, they were colored and shaded like 3D models, which made them stick out. What was supposed to look impressive now looks like a yearly Naruto movie.

>I can't defend my own shitty opinions in any way so I'll just call him a nigger
Peak Yea Forums right there.

That's not hard enough. Harder faggot, come on.
Reee at your computer screen over a CG cut of your favorite animu.

Do it pussy.

not him, but you need to calm down triggernigger.

>I consider top anime whatever makes my peepee tingle.

So what's the difference here? Cel and digital anime are both hand-drawn but only the latter is digitally colored, right?

Haha they look like shit. Take it from me little tadpoles! One Shonenshit Man looked good, the same as Shounenshit 100 because, uhm, reason, that I arbitrarily choose. Don't mind that I am a newfag who can't tell the difference between 2D and CGI animation. What do you mean digital effects? Leave me alone with that shite! I am ignorant, and I am proud of it! Taste! You understand me? Get some taste little tadpoles! I've watched anime for 20 years, 5 shows a year!

Pretty much, yes. The main thing though is that digital colouring can be done faster and more cheaply (you don't need to buy art supplies and all that), but the downside is the tendency to omit shading on continuous surfaces.

I see. But why is it that most modern anime also have such a high brightness (i don't know the correct term) compared to old anime?

I still don't understand what you're trying to prove here. Yeah, OPM was impressive. Your examples look kinda average, especially the first one. Not bad, but not mind-blowing. And if you want to talk digital effects you might as well post Ufotable or something, everyone there has an eternal hard-on for digital effects.

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Haha average guys! Listen to me, I said average! I might only watch 5 anime a year but I definitely know what an average is! Us boomers man, crack open those cans!

a gay swimming anime looks better than your favorite

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I guess it has something to do with digital colors vs. real paint. It's easier to screw things up when you're coloring on a computer, since you're not restricted in any way. And I imagine animators don't really want to sit for hours so they can make everything look juuuust right.

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I think you might have autism, my dude.

>anime as a genre
Every fucking time

Fuck that neon grass holy shit.

>posting the word "boomer" over and over
Fuck Yea Forums.

Yeah makes perfectly sense the way you described it, thank you user.

And I think you might be a newfag who has no standing in any debate regarding animation, production processes or whether or not something is good or bad by your personally defined arbitrary reasoning. You should stop posting on this board, it'd be a step in the right direction.

I just don't like your shitty cartoons, fucking bite me.

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>subjectivism, kay?
>laughing anime girl.png
Sad.

You forgot the exclamation mark.

This. but I usually find cels better. Though anime right now has no style most of the time. Niggas don't even bother with backgrounds

>Hand-drawn frames are the reason why anime looks superior to everything else nowadays.
If you mean animated 2d series then I agree, but that's more of a cultural issue. Animation just isn't treated as something serious in the West, sadly.

The last truly good 2d Western animation I can think of is Lion King.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZeLvsAXs3eA

For 3d the West unarguably wins, even Toy Story (1995) is ahead of pretty much all 3d animation ever made in Japan. I can't understand why japs are so horrible at it. Games 10+ years ago had better real time animation than what's put into anime today. It's embarrassing.

>I can't understand why japs are so horrible at it
If I had to guess I'd say it's the same reason why so much digitally-coloured stuff looks sloppy and worse. They use it as a cost-saving measure, so they spend as little money on it as possible in order to reduce the overall cost of the project.

This. Which is why we can't let CG become the norm

Yeah, I was talking about 2D, 3D is a completely different story. I think Japan should focus on 2D animation now more than ever, to make themselves stand out from the Western animation studios and satisfy the hunger for more traditional animation.

>I can't understand why japs are so horrible at it
I don't know, might be the 150m+ budget of Pixar movies compared to 10m tops in Japan. But hey, money is irrelevant to an artist, amirite? Even Spirited Away was a mere 20m but that shouldn't hold them back!

>why we can't
Yes white boi, you CAN NOT let 3D become the norm. Show us your strength. Sorry master, but this one time I have to go all out.

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>soul vs soulless

Wow, that Kimba reboot looks so good in motion. I guess digital anime can be good, after all!

That sense of embarrassment is part of what keeps 2D anime thriving. Japan can't compete with the Disney/Pixars and the IMGs of the world, so they have to double down on 2D to keep appealing to a domestic market. As long as they maintain that mindset, we can keep leeching off it.

Lion King has nothing to do with Kimba, the plot is completely different.

Thanks, user. The promised amount has been transferred to your account.

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Dunno if you see it, but she jumps twice on the same leg (left, left, right)

You can get enough weird animation from OPiece, nuBerserk and DBSuper just to make fun of.
The real problem is Crunchyroll and co. because they are vampires

I also love to give opinions on a subjects I have zero knowledge about.

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c'mon you can pick a better picture for zeta gundam than that

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>Those landscapes on the third & fourth on the left
Mother that's a lot of soul

So, why did you list the most expensive anime films but never list Pixar movies bar the cheapest one they ever made? Toy Story 2 was already 90m, and Toy Story 3 was 200m. Where are those? What even is the source on those TV episode budgets when the Japanese never release such data?

You should update this thing and add some recent works, otherwise you make yourself look like a retard with an outdated chart that isn't even properly sourced. Show me the budget for something like Asura, Hottarake or some other, full CG Japanese anime films that aren't chained to a billion dollar video game franchise. So, they are actually comparable to Pixar feature films.

2002 to 2009 stuff is almost without exception objectively uglier than what came before or after. The transition to digital was fucking rough and a lot of stuff is permanently stuck at low resolution with little or ugly shading and few colors.

2002 to 2009 was literally the best era of anime as far as variety, artistic expression and number of quality works go.

>there's barely any blah blah
How things bend and strain as they're destroyed in gunbuster is more impressive than any of the cuts you're showing. Pretty sure the maquia webms are you too which aren't technically impressive either. Not bad at all just not something I look at and say anything other than "nice that they drew the dragon".
One primary thing digital really changed is that lineart doesn't stop at the inbetweeners. The girl doing color has to touch up lineart after it's scanned. No exceptions. That's something that just fundamentally didn't happen to cel animation.

>just not something I look at and say anything other than
Yeah but you're a newfag with no understanding of animation and no appreciation for it, hence your opinion is worthless. Your entire response makes this pretty clear. It's literally no more than
>me no liky
which is about as valuable as the shit I took this morning.

>shifting the burden of proof
Feel free to quantify what makes the dragon look good if you want to. My eight words about why I like gunbuster's animation is infinitely more than your ctrl+v of a sakugabooru post.

>suddenly there's an explosion of artistic expression...
>turns out it all sucks shitdick and the ones who cried were talentless hacks with mediocre skills all along

>cherrypicking DYRL because SDF looked like dogshit
>cherrypicking Hosoda anime even though his aesthetic is an intentional style chocie

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Literally every one of these threads is cherry picking and crying over nostalgia.

If you really need someone to explain to you how a 100second long scene, animated by a single animator, that displays various forms of character acting as well as severe shifts in perspective is impressive, then it is very apparent that lack the slightest bit of understanding as to what qualifies as good animation. The 10 seconds of the active dragon chase are more impressive than anything that can be found in either of those Gunbuster WebM, which first and foremost consist of jump-cuts rather than actual animation. Why did they use jump-cuts instead of shifting the perspective around the model and animating it from various angles? I bet you can guess.

If you actually paid attention to the WebMs you're praising, you'd have realized that the "explosions" (if you can even call them that) are also barely animated. They pop up out of nowhere and have next to no actual expansion. They are worse animated than yutapon cubes. The 500ms after the dragon knocks down the pillar with his shoulder is more impressive due to the unique shape of the individual elements that need to be animated.

The sort of object bending shit that you praise is done a million times better in Macross Zero, but you wouldn't be aware of that beacuse it isn't cel, now would you, newfag?

Cel anime in BD > rest

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Digital by far
BUMP THE CONTRAST UP THOUGH YOU FUCKS

>animated by a single animator
It's not though. The background is farmed out and frequently cgi. The flight cuts in motion mostly rely on the background conveying that motion. If this were 1999 and that meant someone hand animating the tracking background frame by frame I'd be more impressed. But it's not, so I'm not. The dragon itself in flight just doesn't look like something flying. The illusion is almost wholly from relative motion. Similarly the cut of the dragon in the hallway relies heavily on a 3dcg background being manipulated but the 2d characters are well sync'd to it. It's the best cut in the film. The dragon would benefit from some more off model blur in the hallway, its makes the motion feel unnatural particularly it's movements toward the camera. It jumps quite a bit in a couple frames but with almost no effects on model. Not drawn, and not smudged in post.
I mostly think, "cool they drew the dragon" but there's nothing there that makes me impressed with the technical skill of the animator. You seem to confuse effort expended with skill.

Yeah, but you didn't refute his point about the Gunbuster clips, did you?

Did Chris just pelvic thrust the other guy out of him?

That isn't GOOD decision making.

All you did was focus on what wasn't impressive instead of what is impressive. If you're going to tell me the photocopier pink balls are unimpressive I'm not going to disagree.

>overcomposition
I know you're joking but when someone makes a decision or two at layout there's literally nothing the key animators can do to fix it. At least not on tv anime where there isn't time for them to go back to the animation director and try to work something different out.

Violet could have been aesthetically pleasing if it weren't for the ifilters.

>relies heavily on a 3dcg background being manipulated but the 2d characters are well sync'd to it.
Your entire argument relies on the assumption that 3DCG backgrounds enable an animator to do whatever the hell he wants because the CG can simply be manipulated on a whim. Which it can't be. The animation isn't any less impressive because the background isn't traditionally animated. In fact, I think you're gonna have a hard time finding an animted background sequence that is as detailed as what you're looking at, especially one that lasts for 10+ seconds in total. There's a reason why even Miyazaki had to simplify the animation by a very significant amount.

Nobody even praised the background animation. It simply allows the actual sequence to be more dynamic. That doesn't change the perspective shift that the animator uses on character OR dragon. You're literally confusing what is being praised here, and I am certain you're doing so intentionally.

>The dragon would benefit from some more off model blur in the hallway, its makes the motion feel unnatural
There's that word again: feel. Nothing about blur makes anything natural and it doesn't benefit motion either unless you want to actively depict stylized sequences. The thing isn't moving at mach2 speed.

To me, animation is good or bad per the animator, instead of per the medium (in most cases - CG excluded, I can't accept CG).

>some of these people have some autistic background
You literally can't make this shit up.

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>it's a film/OAV vs Seasonal Anime episode thread edition
Really need to contact 4channel over the re-runs. They're getting stale.

I wish I knew what we were even arguing about. Cel vs. Digital is like arguing about pencil crayons vs. markers most of the time.

>this board is turning into fucking reddit
I thought this board was already bargain bin reddit.

>Your entire argument relies on the assumption that 3DCG backgrounds enable an animator to do whatever the hell he wants because the CG can simply be manipulated on a whim.
That's a pretty scary miscatgorization of what I wrote since I called it the best cut in the film and I just backspaced what was a longer reiteration of things I already said because fuck you try reading it the first time.
>Nothing about blur makes anything natural
Watch any live action film in your life. A dragon doesn't get to close 20 feet on the camera in 3 frames while looking the way it does in that cut.

The thing I really miss from the cel era is the shading. What hurts more, is that the software and technology have reached a point where there's really no excuse not to bring it back:

youtu.be/MMUcafde5A4

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Nostalgiafags who think that all the specially curated, cherrypicked, stood the test of time, in every Top 100 anime list ever somewhere anime from the 80's is how ALL 80's anime looked and because it looks different to it is now, that suddenly makes it better. Because people long for the past whilst fearing the future. All people do it, all generations do it. I remember a time when people didn't need nostalgia or rose-tinted goggles to enjoy things... ah... those were the days.

Personally what I liked most about the cel era (when it was at its best) was a certain economy of movement and animation. They used all kinds of tricks to minimise the work they had to do, but tended to put careful effort into the details that were most important. The overall effect of "restraint" is something I quite like. In the digital era I feel like they're trying to animate everything to the same standard, even when they don't actually have the resources to do so.

Wish everyone would go back to cel for 1 season so everyone would notice how the majority of shows would still look like shit.

I love the old cel aesthetic too and it's a shame it's totally gone, but digital made good animation on lower budget possible.
It's not the fault of digital animation that the style you guys like more happens to be more expensive and harder to do so it stopped beign industry standard.

This. Cel Animation probably looks better ONLY when it's got the budget to match. Every time people go 'b-b-but look at this 15 second clip!' of some cel animated show it's 9/10 from a film or a OAV with a big budget behind it.

The only thing about Zeta that aged well is its OPs.

There were a hell of a lot more OVAs in the 90's though. If Wikipedia is any guide, in 1995 there were 32 television series, compared to 42 OVAs and 25 films.

Hardly any animators from the past decade and a half would even know how to do it. I bet most companies dont even have the necessary equipment for it anymore.

Exactly, but retards think that 80's is some golden fucking era. It has good shows, it has bad shows. 90's has good shows and bad shows. 00's has good shows and bad shows. 10's has good shows and bad shows.

Faggots who think animation = good are fucking retarded. VEG is probably one of the best animated shows ever yet it lacks something. It's proof that with time, effort and budget you can make something truly beautiful. But the fact is, most people don't give a shit. At the best... at the utter best, 80's might have had a higher 'peak' in quality, whilst 10's have a higher average quality. People people don't watch the god awful stuff from the 80's or 90's and even the good stuff has dodgy shit in it every so often.

Personally I think the shift away from hand-drawn has also somehow changed or coincided with a change in the stories you see. There's a huge difference between the muted tones of, say, To Heart, and the bright digital colouring of Infinite Stratos, for example. The delivery ends up being quite different.

>You don't even need to know how to draw
>t's not real painting.

you guys know they still need to draw the models and keyframes before that right?

to be fair most old shows has garbage story too

>Hardly any animators from the past decade and a half would even know how to do it.
Every animator working today can draw on paper. That's not a special skill that's been lost to time.

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couldnt be more expensive than 150 million besides the film got delayed a couple of times anyways

Will we ever get an anime adaptation that covers all of GUNNM and Last Order? I want to see my husbando Desty Nova, dammit!

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People have traced cgi since the 80s it's not a new technique.

>the shift away from hand-drawn
Do animators draw with their feet now-a-days?

Literally not at all what I was saying, but sure thing smart ass.

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So is there even an actual difference?
Dragon Ball Super is primarily drawn on paper and it still looks like ass most of the time

I generally prefer cell, because its too easy to make lazy effects digital. Bad cell just looks bad, but bad digital animation is downright offensive. Of course, of the people involved know their shit, they can do well with both.

>being this pedantic
Get a grip on your autism.

Yes, but drawing is the same whether the drawings get filmed or scanned.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I just think it's sad that cel animation isn't used at all now.

>Personally I think the shift away from hand-drawn
What the hell do you think animators draw with? The bulk of animation in Japan is still drawn on paper! Production assistants have to scan it in. Only a few studios and freelance animators use exclusively or mostly digital workflows.
Most anime still is. The average viewer won't be aware of shows with animation drawn on tablets.

We should have made this poll earlier
strawpoll.me/17470602

>animation
>posts pics

>overly detailed hair = good
take away the millions of lines in the hair and it's the same as any other modern anime

I prefer 3DCG
>3rd post

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>I just think it's sad that cel animation isn't used at all now.
They don't even make the cellophane used for it anymore. It's impossible. You can still emulate it using filters and the right designs if you want to, the old timey sequences in Shirobako are a good example even though that was ~5 years ago.

"Hand-drawn" is a fairly specific term, it's not that much to ask that you use it properly, is it?

He stated that he was a faggot for making those images though, really funny that people still post them when you consider it.

Fuck you now i have to rewatch this movie thanks

user, first of all, most anime are drawn and paper and then digitally colored on computer. Second, even if you draw on a Wacom that's still basically like drawing on paper, it's merely more convenient.

Oh look, more people saying things I never implied. Nothing I fucking said had anything to do with being able to draw on paper or not.

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Then why were you talking about animators? Animators never handled cels in a commercial pipeline.

>zeta gundam aged well.

No.

FUCK i wish marco had a BD release. the current release looks like a shitty VHS rip at times.

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Because he thinks animators painted and filmed the cels. Miyazaki made the entire movie you know? He even produced in his yard and made the paint from local flowers.

Of course you can learn, how does that change that they dont know now?
>Then why were you talking about animators?
I was just referring broadly to the people working on an animation, at least art wise.

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Cel can look amazing, but the main problem is that it seems really noticeable when it's not drawn well.

Sadly for him, people still share the same ideas he had when he made those images.

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As someone who has watched a lot of really badly made shit from the 80s I'd agree wtih him, it did. Certainly aged better than half the episodes of SDF and most of Takahashis works. Can mostly be credited to the designs, though.

>I was just referring broadly to the people working on an animation, at least art wise.
"Animator" is a specific job, you're just going to be misunderstood if you try to use it so broadly.

Even if every anime studio suddenly went back to cel with a budget to match the industry wouldn't revert to 80's designs and themes you know?

Clearly. But unlike most people picking sides and biting at each others throats in here, all I was doing was making a benign comment about people currently not knowing the old process nor necessarily having the tools at their disposal to replicate it.

You know, what I don't get about these threads is how most of the people who complain in them have probably not even seen half the anime that were produced prior to 2000. So, instead of whining about how shit modern anime is, why don't you work through that backlog of yours and have at least a 95% watched rated. Afterwards you are in a position to complain because you now lack content to consume.

>all I was doing was making a benign comment about people currently not knowing the old process nor necessarily having the tools at their disposal to replicate it.
Which you phrased poorly and then got indignant when others misunderstood.

>then got indignant
Guess you didn't see the other responses that were deleted.

Anime didn't go bad after it changed from Cel to Digital. It slowly got bad after 2007.

How would you know?

Take a look at the LN and manga market.

I think you can go even further and say that production companies became more risk-averse and changed the type of adaptations they wanted to fund. That's why we get shitty game and LN adaptations by the truckload now - they're sure to succeed, regardless of whether they're any good.

My only real problem with digital is that I feel like the colors are bland or weird for my taste.

why does right have better backgrounds than left?

Buy proper monitor/TV.

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I just feel like it's because when working with actual paints, it just lends itself to using more "natural" colors while digital sometimes doesn't look as right, especially with how much more color variants you can use, though replicating cel-colors definitely isn't impossible

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The difference between digital and real colors is that digital have hard time to reach darkest dark, and color in paint have problems to reach maximum luminance. But everything you see is on your monitor. And no actual paints not dark as cel. It's some kind of meme from anons who never see real paint in real life. Like "too saturated color". Go outside look at real world. It's not dark and pale unless you're in specific environment

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>that digital have hard time to reach darkest dark
That's literally pure, unadulterated bullshit. Digital can attain any color on the spectrum, if digi is less dark it's a question of style, not technique.

No. My Photoshop blocks black. I can only choose various shapes of grey.

>Fucking racist photoshop sabotages art, one pixel at a time.

Also in animation industry they use gouache and acrylic. Both mediums dries darker.
user your monitor is light source. There is backlight. Even Eizo monitors have small backlight.

user you utter retard what do you watch your fucking anime on? Do you wait for some nip to draw the frames of your anime in gouache on a bit of canvas?
Also OLED and microLED will BTFO this already retarded argument.

>user your monitor is light source. There is backlight. Even Eizo monitors have small backlight.
What does that have to do with cel of digital animation? Do you watch cel anime on an OLED screen and digital on a TN panel? Besides, VA panels have extremely deep black levels and 5000+:1 contrast ratios. And those don't cost a fortune.

>Do you wait for some nip to draw the frames of your anime in gouache on a bit of canvas?
Excuse me but do you even know what is cel painting?
>Also OLED and microLED will BTFO this already retarded argument.
Please open black picture on your monitor.
Pick up black t-short or something.
Turn off the light.
Compare your t-shirt with color displayed on monitor.
Now begone. Don't even ask me why turn off light.

user, I ask again, what do you watch anime on?
Come on, tell me you weak ass baiter. Why do you even bother.
Also affordable OLED monitors aren't a thing yet, you silly retarded goose.

>What does that have to do with cel of digital animation?
>That's literally pure, unadulterated bullshit
I just explaining things to ride user who has no idea how colors and painting works.

Cel is superior in 100% of the cases, the objectivelly worse cel animated anime is preferable to the objectivelly best digitally animated one.

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Oh really?

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Digital animation, it's not even a contest. Cel looks so fucking ugly

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Note: if you are watching cel animation on a monitor instead of a CRT you don’t deserve to have an opinion on it because you are not seeing it how it was actually meant to be seen.

>Come on, tell me you weak ass baiter
I have no idea why you call color theory as bait. What is your point? I told you difference between digital and trad.

What do you watch anime on?

On 99% aRGB monitor. Now what?

I refuse to believe that this Paco isn't baiting.

Then, you're aware that the darkest dark achievable digitally is as dark or darker than any color produced by cel animation, as displayed on a screen, right?

digital, because im a retard

but why

user...
Real painting is a surface of which light reflects.
If you right now draw something on your PC and then print it it will looks different. That's why people convert their shit to CYMK for printing. Digital is additive color system.

I think he's legitimately retarded.

Well that's it, I'm out of ways to respond to this.

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Of course you don't have any arguments.

>Digital can attain any color on the spectrum
No.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut

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Are you the same retard? On the spectrum displayed by screens, obviously.

>only nigga in the thread being honest and not cherry picking
good on you
I still like the old cel stuff more though, even if it doesn't actually look as good
Yu Yu Hakusho has my favorite animation in a show period, I love everything about how it looks

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.>obviously
Sure thing, pal. Real black too?

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>It doesn't really make a difference when there were so many more ovas during that time than TV anime.
Holy shit yes it does you ultra nigger. Only somebody who knows jack fucking shit about anime production could possibly think this-- oh wait I forgot I'm on Yea Forums, full of "anime experts" who routinely make threads like this one and post inane, stupid, ignorant bullshit like this.

You dumb cocksucker, do you know what makes anime good quality more than anything? Time. Fucking time spend working on it. Know what TV anime has that OVA doesn't? A rushed fucking time table to get episodes done before the air date. OVA you spend whatever, it's direct to video, you can push deadlines a bit, you won't fuck up whole project if episode is 1 day late, or 2 days late, it's more flexible.

So sick of dumbshit faggots on Yea Forums thinking they know how how anime is made and what makes it good. Fucking NOBODY understands that rushed schedules fuck up anime 99% of the time and the reason OVAs look so fucking good is the schedules are more flexible.

And before you monkey fuck dipshits say anything no OVAs were not all fucking Redline "SEVEN YEARS HAND DRAWN" but there's a fucking world of difference between "finish episode by air date or we can't pay rent this month" and "finish episode this quarter so we can make our profit projection".

DUMB FUCKS

This 100x

I re-read your post again. Yes this is right. But you arguing about argument I never made. Same why how I arguing about argument you never made.
>/alter/kek

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Actually a good list

shaded anime looks crap

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Chill out, you clearly didn't get the point I made at all. OVAS were the most commonly produced anime at the time, so they serve as a better indicator of what anime generally looked like at that time than tv anime of the time do. In the modern anime landscape tv anime dominates so it is fair to treat them as exemplars of what anime generally looks like now. Its not about having a "fair race" or anything like that, finding out that a racer won because he used steroids doesnt change the fact that he was faster than the other racers. Between 87-89 only about 1/3rd of anime was tv anime, this essentially means that 2/3rds were able to be produced in a way that could more easily increase visual quality. The fact that they had this advantage doesnt nullify the heighted visual quality of the period, it is just the sensible explantion for it. The average is raised due to this reason, but it is still raised. The period doesnt somehow look any worse because of the fact that they were blessed with a strong economy that allowed this advantage.

Now if the claim is that people in the modern industry lack talent due to all of these ovas and films inflating the old average, then that is unfair. The modern industry is, as you said, handicapped in comparison. But we are just talking about a general comparison of visual quality. On the other hand, digital tools make animation a lot easier, so the question is whether or not the increased efficiency of digital means should be enough to make up for the tight deadlines?

Too bad the anime itself is absolute trash just like VEG

>unga then
>bunga now

>Watch any live action film in your life
The blur that a real camera captures naturally cannot be recreated well.

Magic Users Club OVA is fucking gorgeous you artless nigger.

So which side is claiming Redline?

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The fact you have to put shit like Rolling Girls on that list isn't really doing you any favors.

>90s
>golden age

so is KLK no longer considered 'good' anime?

Anybody who uses hand drawn characters on CGI environments should be executed.

My lunchu!~
ohh sweet lunchu, I missed u soooo
nomnomnom

Mah Gantz niggah

>no longer

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This.

cel animation is beautiful and I'll never be able to love digital animation as much as I love hand-drawn

but the paints used in some cel animation are often toxic and breathing them in and touching them caused harm to animators, including fatal respiratory problems etc.. working on hand-drawn projects tends to be more physically taxing as well in terms of repetitive motion injuries. It also takes more labor, which seems like it would be good because it creates more jobs, but usually just means the work gets offloaded to cheaper animation studios in countries with less ethical standards about not over-working and providing decent working conditions for their animators

I think digital animation will get more visually compelling with time. I really miss how traditional animators used to treat the screen as a canvas and position character movement in such a dynamic way. op pic has some great examples of that. hopefully some of that artistry will come back and new ways of making anime visually interesting in a thoughtful way will develop a little more than they are now.

Nobody is defending early 2000s shit. Something about 80s era anime is just that not all that much anime was made back then. The amount of tv+ova+film projects per year is many times more currently than what would be seen in those days. I think the visible shifts are also in part of this industry change, and not just a product of the differing mediums.

At least with today's technology we can have much better representation of 3D spaces in anime

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Kill la Kill was no longer considered 'good' after about 3 episodes and was considered a 'trainwreck' after about 16 episodes.

show on the right will probably be better

faggot those are all miles better than violet photoshopgarden
nice filters faggot. it totally disguises the sub-par drawings

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Don't worry brothers, I will fight against the 3dcg cancer with everything I've got. I was feeling depressed lately, thinking about how 3dcg is killing anime, but you've given me some energy and reminded me that there are still good people in this world. It's good to know that there are still true anime fans.

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No one knows. But if you find all the monoliths scattered around the new world and translate it, you become King of the anime

Rolling Girls was cool.

are you dumb?

Cel

digital

>cherrypicking

>madoka
stopped reading there

Digital animation has no soul
It feels dull and cold watching modern anime

Hand drawn cel animation feels authentic and has a particular charme to it
Gazing upon a beautiful scene makes you recognize the effort and dedication the talented animator put into creating this scene

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/thread
anyone who disagrees has no experience and knowledge with the industry

>take away detail and it looks bad
WOW user YOU'RE A GENIUS

>vs
Both are different techniques that result in visually distinctive styles that aren't that comparable, though it's worth mentioning that it's easy for cel to be shit because of its limitations as it needed relatively high budget to be done properly, not every pre-2000 anime is Akira and Ghibli.

Is this pic by Otaking? Seems like the disingenuous bullshit he'd make. You can prefer whichever you like, but comparing the best of cell animation to the very early years of digital is just arguing in bad faith.

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Compare the best of cel animation to the best of digital animation, see for yourself then.

ngl I like the old ones

I'm not a fucking nerd who needs to pick only one. I like both when they are well done and honestly this whole autism about which one is better is just pointless in my opinion, mainly because the argument itself is almost always flawed from the get go with people cherrypicking shots, comparing OVAs to TV anime, ignoring that the sheer amount of anime airing has fucking skyrocketed compared to the "good old days" which naturally floods the market with mediocrity because 95% of everything is shit.

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it's false detail and you're retarded

Tastes so shit like yours cannot be repaired I'm afraid.

>being this mad
Cope.