1. Voldy's plan in GOF doesn't make any sense. Why would they spend so much time and effort getting Potter through Triwizard Tournament when Moody/Crouch could have done it more easily, e.g. by luring Harry to his office and making him touch some object-portkey? And why did Potter bother with participating at all? They spoke something about "biding magical contract" but we never got any details.
2. How does magical justice system even work? There is a veritaserum but it's not used during proceedings. There are spells which can modify your memories or make you forget something. It's possible to transform evidence and/or victim's bodies into other object and hide them. How the hell can you even persecute someone in this circumstances? Wizards should be really paranoid and use protective spell all the time. In DH we see how easy it is to incapacitate 3 Ministry workers and infiltrate MoM itself.
3. Why did no one (apparently) interrogate Moaning Myrtle about her death? She remembered eyes being last thing she saw. At least someone should think of a basilisk which could lead to Hagrid being proven innocent. And by the way: how come that no ghost ever discovered the chamber of secrets or at least an entrance to it? And why the hell wasn't the place sealed off (Ron and Hermione in DH took fangs from basilisk which was still there)?
"Favourite" Harry Potter plot hole/problem/criticism
all of this are valid criticisms, but I don't think they ruin the narrative, its more like suspension of disbelief. Yes:
>crouch COULD have tricked harry on his office
but then he'd become the main suspect and voldemort's plan would be discovered immediately, which he didn't want.
>Harry could have chosen NOT to participate
to be fair, he participated because he wanted to. Even if he was forced to fight the dragon, he could've easily taken the broom on the first test and fly the fuck away, he'd get immediately disqualified and there was nothing they could do about it.
>there COULD have been and anti-multijuice security system on the entrance of the MoM
and hermione being the self-insert genius she is would've found a way to bypass it.
The only one that you could argue against is the basilisk shit - Tom Riddle just stepped up, blamed hagrid and everyone believed him.
do you really expect me to read all this shit?
go fuck yourself and have a bump for the lulz
thanks for the bump
>I don't think they ruin the narrative
Given the worldwide appeal of HP, they indeed don't. I really liked HP as a child, now I see it more as a guilty pleasure and really like to nitpick.
>the main suspect
Why?
>voldemort's plan would be discovered immediately
It was discovered anyway.
>because he wanted to
He definitely did not, as he was suspecting, rightfully so, a foul play. Being disqualified would be preferable to putting yourself in danger. Besides, 2 first tasks were pretty unimportant in the long run as people who didn't fare well could still participate in the final task.
>Tom Riddle just stepped up, blamed hagrid and everyone believed him.
Yeah, that's part of the problem - have they ever heard about some legal procedures?
>do you really expect me to read all this shit?
Well, it would be nice but you don't have to.
>go fuck yourself and have a bump for the lulz
Thanks...I guess.
>kill someone
>turn them into a sausage
>eat them
>use a spell to wipe your own memories of killing them
the charges, officer?
>why would crouch be the main suspect
because his two faggot friends are with him all the time, they would definitely know the last person he was with was Moody
>voldy plan was discovered anyways
because it failed and harry escaped, otherwise it would have worked.
>harry did not want to participate
but he ended up participating on the three trials anyways, that can only mean he was willing to participate on them instead of just hiding on his invisibility cape and saying "fuck this shit"
>about hagrid
i dont know man, the first books are weird. Harry was threatened with getting expelled like a hundred million fucking times
>Snape neutralizes Harry during half blood prince
>Bellatrix tried to kill him but Snape says he belongs to the dark lord
>death eaters just leave instead of just taking Harry with them so Voldemort can then kill him
I always thought they just assumed Snape wants to rape Harry first so they left to give him some privacy.
>Hnnn, who is, ~plap plap~ mmm, the House Cup winner now, ~plap plap plap~ hnnng, Potter?
I think the idea is to have been able to do it all without raising any suspicions. Triwizard Tournament would have covered up the death of students because of how dangerous it is.
>wow harry if I look just at your eyes its almost like im facefucking Lily herself
>because his two faggot friends are with him all the time, they would definitely know the last person he was with was Moody
Not necessarily, when he talks with Moody before 1st task, I don't think they knew about this.
>because it failed and harry escaped, otherwise it would have worked.
It could have worked also if Harry was kidnapped earlier.
>but he ended up participating on the three trials anyways, that can only mean he was willing to participate on them instead of just hiding on his invisibility cape and saying "fuck this shit"
That's the point - why didn't they even consider/discuss non-participation?
>the first books are weird. Harry was threatened with getting expelled like a hundred million fucking times
What does it have to do with it?
But if he would just disappear, it would look like a kidnapping, not an accident. Besides, it required many additional steps, like guiding Harry through the whole thing.
My biggest peeve is how the first 3 books are clearly written without Horcruxes being a thing. The stuff with the diary in 2 is a clear asspull but Rowling consistently lies about having everything planned ahead of time.
>without Horcruxes being a thing
Yeah, it applies to many other things. Actually, I don't have a problem with horcurxes in this context.
Yeah, but he would have been kidnapped within Hogwarts, and they would have been caught once Dumbledore went scorched earth on the staff.
The only place they may have gotten away with it would be Hogsmeade.
>Why would they spend so much time and effort getting Potter through Triwizard Tournament when Moody/Crouch could have done it more easily
The plan was for his death to appear accidental so there'd be no witnesses to Voldemort's return other than his followers and they could build up their forces in secret. Having him kidnapped wouldn't achieve that.
>luring Harry to his office and making him touch some object-portkey
You can't portkey in or out of Hogwarts
>And why did Potter bother with participating at all?
Binding magical contract
>but we never got any details.
What more do you need to know?
>How does magical justice system even work? There is a veritaserum but it's not used during proceedings
The ministry of magic is incredibly corrupt. Malfoy and his ilk got off because they're rich and bribed the right people.
>Why did no one (apparently) interrogate Moaning Myrtle about her death? She remembered eyes being last thing she saw
Dumbledore evidently knew about the chamber of secrets and what it contained but that knowledge didn't help him find it.
>how come that no ghost ever discovered the chamber of secrets or at least an entrance to it?
Maybe its warded against ghosts. Maybe they just don't care.
dude im not going to keep discussing this shit
I could keep thinking about explanations about the narrative to make it believable, and you'll keep nitpicking (on a good way) to make it less believable every time.
As we both agreed with, your points ARE valid but they don't really matter. You are correct.
>But if he would just disappear, it would look like a kidnapping, not an accident
Not if they send his body back with the cup
teleports don't work inside hogwarts grounds (dumbledore made an exception for himself), the third challenge is outside the school grounds
>Binding magical contract
why cant Harry just give up?
This isn’t a serious criticism or a plot hole but the tri wizard tournament is an awful spectator event. How is it supposed to be exciting, in two of the three events you can’t see any of the action. You just sit there for who knows how long and wait for someone to appear out of the water or maze. They seriously should invest in cameras and big screen tvs
it clearly wasnt. If anything, she probably took the horrocruxes idea FROM Riddle's book and expanded it, since it's concept was that it was a "piece" of Voldemort trapped inside it.
Maybe he physically can't. Maybe he can but it has terrible penalty clauses like death. It makes no difference either way.
My favorite: none of the romantic relationships are developed or earned. Harry and Ginny in particular is essentially a retcon saying that his saving her life when he was 12 made her fall in love with him.
My response to your criticism would be that all wizards are insane mutants and Voldemort is the kookiest of the lot, even Crouch acknowledges that Harry had to beat the tasks himself, and that (had it not worked) Voldemort's plan would have been bizarre. Their justice system operates on medieval rules because a majority of wizards are either incognito or glad to have any government at all.
kek based
harry should've fucked hermione
ginny should've stayed with neville
I dont give a shit about ron, for all he mocked Luna it would've been hilarious for him to end up with her
>Tom Riddle just stepped up, blamed hagrid and everyone believed him.
>Yeah, that's part of the problem - have they ever heard about some legal procedures?
he was caught with aragog. as far as the staff at hogwarts were concerned, thats getting caught red handed. there was no need for a trial. Dumbledore was the only one that new Hagrid wasnt it
>The only place they may have gotten away with it would be Hogsmeade.
That's one idea. And of course, Moody would have to run immediately after.
>The plan was for his death to appear accidental so there'd be no witnesses
They could still try to kidnap him without witnesses.
>You can't portkey in or out of Hogwarts
I don't remember such rule. Still, you could do it outside.
>What more do you need to know?
Anything! For example: what the hell does "binding magical contract" even mean? Who enforces it? What are its rules and consequences of breaking it?
>Maybe they just don't care.
They should after one of them got attacked.
>I could keep thinking about explanations about the narrative to make it believable, and you'll keep nitpicking
Well, that's kinda the point. But as you wish.
>Maybe he can but it has terrible penalty clauses like death.
That's a fine explanation. One line in book would be enough.
They all have fondness for Mad Eye Moody in book 5 and 6 but they never even knew the real Mad-Eye. The Defense against Dark Arts teacher they fell in love with in book 4 was Barty Crouch Jr.
The biggest plothole is how the rich, famous, sports captain, saviour of the world cant get a date for the school ball
>but then he'd become the main suspect
No. MadEye Moody would have been the main suspect. No one even knew Crouch was involved at all. Crouch could have pulled it seemlessly and innocently and people would have just asked "Where's Harry Potter, I haven't seen him around in a couple days?" Instead of immediately tipping everyone off by making him disappear at the climax of a huge international wizard tournament where everyone is paying attention.
based and mugglepilled
this 100%, if possible they wanted to raise baldamort and then do some cheeky cloak and dagger shit.
Yeah that is absolutely ridiculous. Why is rich kid hero chosen one sports legend Harry Potter ever unpopular?
>harry should've fucked hermione
I would prefer Luna/Harry.
Well, that's really shitty then. And why did Dumby not move his gay ass and try to explain it? If Myrtle was killed by "huge eyes", Aragog/Hagrid couldn't have been the culprit.
>they never even knew the real Mad-Eye
They met him in person in 5 and 6 (?).
Manlet without positive canthal tilt. Seriously tho, he got invited by some girls and rejected them.
>Manlet without positive canthal tilt
is this a literal quote from the book?
everyone knows he's only famous because hannibal lecter failed to kill him, and lecter is back for revenge so nobody wants to stand near him.
Kek, I doubt JKR is blackpilled. Seriously, he is described as rather short if I remember.
>saying that his saving her life when he was 12 made her fall in love with him.
Is it said explicitly? I remember that she had a crush on him even before.
Because he was written to be duh
To be fair:
>he isn't described as good looking
>barely anyone even knows that he's rich
>he hangs around mostly with R and H who aren't very popular too
>he's pretty passive and not very socially adjusted
>he's a good player but not a star
>Slytherins hate him just because
>he isn't considered to be chosen one until HBP, his other deeds are not universally known
>They seriously should invest in cameras and big screen tvs
Or at least have Snape perform his hilarious stand up.
Rowling only wrote the first 2 books.
Rest were done by ghost writers because she couldn't keep up with publisher/studio demands from their cash cow.
It's not that she was a hack, just inexperienced.
Don't believe me? Reread the books.
They start off with made-up words and British slang in the first books then shift to American slang and jokes that a brit would have no knowledge of in later books.
Beloved characters that are built up with back stories and friendships are killed off in a single line in a paragraph and then never mentioned again- because the ghost writers were creating their own story and had no investment in them.
It went from carefree and comical to dark and macabre.
That's not how authors evolve.
I know if I'm reading a Stephen King book or a Dean Koontz book without looking at the cover no matter if the book is 30 years old or 3 months old. Because ALL authors have a particular style. That's just how the human brain works.
>British slang
Stretching legs?
>American slang and jokes that a brit would have no knowledge of
>Beloved characters that are built up with back stories and friendships are killed off in a single line in a paragraph and then never mentioned again
Can you give some examples?
>made-up words
She makes up words all the time.
>It went from carefree and comical to dark and macabre.
It actually makes sense-it was said many times that her readers were growing up alongside the books. In general, far-fetched but interesting idea for me.
hermione was gorgeous, smart, and popular, yet had oneitus for ron and was a femcel. You mean to tell me NOBODY wanted to take a hot young broad to the ball?
>gorgeous
She was not, at least in the books.
>popular
The same.
>You mean to tell me NOBODY wanted to take a hot young broad to the ball?
Why would I? Krum invited her.
she was never described as fat though. any resonably fit 13 year old girl would have dozens of horny teenage boys lining up. even if she was a 6/10 its unrealistic for me to believe she would be this horny for ron and not have several options
>and not have several options
Apparently she had but she was focused on her studies first and then on Ron. But I think even JKR said that she should be with Harry.
>1. Voldy's plan
True but he is also a pretentious bitch who chose items from the most famous british wizards to make his horcruxes
>2. magical justice system
Tampered memories can be detected, most magic leaves traces but really its also bullshit if you dig deeper into how it should work
>myrtle
Hagrid was wrongly expelled for opening the chamber, the school knew about the basilisk already. The spider was just another creature he had
This guy brought back Voldemort yet he doesn’t even show up in the final movie, like they forgot he existed.
>chose items from the most famous british wizards to make his horcruxes
That's another problem. Couldn't he at least hide one of them in other country?
>the school knew about the basilisk already
I don't think so. If they knew, they shouldn't have sent Hagrid to Azkban in COS. And if they truly thought that Hagrid opened the chamber and is responsible for murder, being expelled would be extremely lenient punishment. It just doesn't add up.
>Voldemort tried to use Avada Kedavra on Harry like 4 times
>it failed every single time
>he never tried to use another trick on that faggot
In the book he was strangled by his silver hand for betraying Voldemort
Yeah, in POA they say that one wizard saving other's life creates a unique bond between them. And yet, he doesn't even appear in OOTP (?), cameos in HBP and quickly dies in DH.
Other wizards have opposite problem: they use fancy spells instead of just AKing enemy.
What you’re describing isn’t plot holes, it’s just you questioning how a fictional world works and why characters would behave the way they did.
>What you’re describing isn’t plot holes
Hence the thread's title.
How did Hagrid manage to breed a Manticore with a firecrab and create this abomination (picture)?
These manticore are huge in fb3
>Yeah, that's part of the problem - have they ever heard about some legal procedures?
To be fair, this point is addressed. Harry is constantly going "WTF" at the incredibly dangerous/weird aspects of the wizarding world that people engage in very casually. For example the triwizard tournament which literally has teenagers fighting dragons and the parents don't seem bothered one bit.
It seems like the wizarding legal system is following the same dadaesque logic, with trials being pretty reminiscent of the actual witch trials from real history, with basically the charges being read out and the jury deciding on the spot whether the accused is guilty or not by show of hands. I guess you're just supposed to assume they get it right most of the time because evildoers will usually by very obvious.
The only thing that breaks my immersion is when someone says that dinner isn't ready yet, but no witch or wizard ever cooks. All food is conjured. Aside from that the movies are great.
DULLEST FRANCHISE
He was a good friend
Not sure where you got this idea, but I'm pretty sure they actually cook. In Hogwarts at least they have elves making the food which they then send to the dining hall through the ceiling.
>For example the triwizard tournament which literally has teenagers fighting dragons and the parents don't seem bothered one bit.
This I will give a pass. In normal sports you can be injured or killed too. People participated in TT willfully (well, except Harry...) and it was suspended for many years because of those deaths.
>dadaesque logic
Well, that's the more general problem I have with the series. On one hand, especially in earlier books, presented world is more fairly tale-like and magic rules are vague and mystical. But on the other hand, some of the magic is very precise and technical (certain spells must be pronounced correctly with according wand movements). And this "traditional" magical tropes/elements just don't work in environment like government, economy or justice system.