They set up zero stakes for Saul, and now it's the final season...

Exactly. That's an accurate observation. I assumed by the final season he would be full on criminal empire, but no. He has Huell and Kim. They could have at least given them a reason to be desparate for the Sandpiper money, but nah. They make tons of money, but they're gonna do it just cuz Kim is the real Heisenberg.

I don't understand how or why you've stuck with the show for this long if you need every last detail and character motivation spoonfed to you, honest to god. Howard is not some pristine choir boy. First off, he's always, ALWAYS had it in for Kim. Blamed her for things that aren't her fault, tried to sabotage her career for committing the sin of hurting his precious image. Then when she finally gets away from him and goes to another firm that can actually advance her career, he acts like she's a traitor. Second, he seems to be physically incapable of minding his own fucking business. Getting in the middle of a familial dispute first, and then sticking his nose where it doesn't belong with Jimmy and Kim. You don't get involved in someone else's relationship and tell them their spouse is not worth the trouble, that's a recipe for disaster 100% of the time. He does that regularly though, he offers Jimmy a job or "comes clean" about his role in Chuck's death, but it's always first and foremost to benefit how he feels about himself. To boost his own ego, to make him feel like he's such a swell guy. Third, if he wasn't such a coward and a pussy he would have kept Chuck's ass in check and done what was best for the firm. If he thought Jimmy would've been a valuable asset he could have made it work. Worst case scenario is exactly what ended up happening anyway happens - Howard has to cash Chuck out with money out of his own pocket. I could go on. He's not the villain Jimmy or Kim are making him out to be but he's always been a smug cunt and it's not hard to understand why people would have it in for him. A lot of people just can't conceive of things in non-binary terms, and no I'm not talking about trannies, I'm talking about how they have to see Howard as either pure evil or a saint. The truth is more nuanced. I don't understand what about this show appeals to you if you're so aggressively incapable of grasping nuance.

He started practicing law under the name Saul Goodman, he's wearing the flashy suits, he's running scams with Huell, he's fucking over anyone who gets in his way and the entire legal system already views him as a total clown and he likes it that way, I'm not sure what more you want. He's been Saul for like a year and a half now.

Who gives a fuck about Kim? She's hitting the wall at Mach 5 and is the most boring character in the show.

>Did you watch the preview for episode 4?
No, I have the patience of an adult and so I can wait a week. Only a childlike simpleton watches the preview for the next episode and makes declarations on the direction of a 13 episode season without having even seen it yet.

Why do you watch this show if you don't like any of the people in it?

he’s onto gus

>Any
I just don't like Kim, shit actress also.

>They set up zero stakes for Saul, and now it's the final season
Did you forget about the post-Breaking Bad timeline? The main intrigue of the show is finding out what happens to him in the black and white scenes. The final few episodes will probably be 100% Gene/Saul.

>Nooo! You aren't allowed to be disappointed by the direction a show has taken in it's later seasons
>You have to stop watching!
>Don't criticize my character study slow burn kino and my 50 year old waifu!

You're gay. There's no nuance, and nothing is hard to understand. It's just superficial and bad writing.

There's plenty of shit to watch, no need to hate-watch something where one of the principal characters from day one activates your hemorrhoids for some reason. Now go ahead and accuse me of simping for Kim because I'm actually interested in the characters of a character drama.

i thought this was a show about lawyers, no more ebic yellow cartelshit please

>Nuance=petty woman logic drama
Nowhere in there did you explain how or why destroying Howard will get them the Sandpiper money, not why destroying him would be the main motivator for them in the seasons final episodes. It's retarded. You listed a bunch of small slights. It makes no sense for him to be the antagonist.

you're dumb by the way

So basically you're anally pained because I don't agree with your hot takes. It's called free discourse. If you want your opinions to be entirely unchecked and met without any resistance, try saying them into a mirror instead. Far be it from me to recommend you stop wasting your time on something you don't even fucking like.

You seem really butthurt I don't like Kim, I simply say I don't like her and you accuse me of literally, and I mean literally saying I do not like "any of the people in it"

So now you are backtracking and saying you aren't simping for Kim or whatever?
Whatever you say man, perhaps don't sperg out next time.

I'm not pained. What you wrote makes no sense. The plot makes no sense. It's just bad. Of all of the things they could have done, they chose to make fucking Howard the final boss. It's retarded. As are you.

Did someone leave the door unlocked at plebbit? How did you get out?

There's already a general thread you fucking negro

Yeah I'm still waiting for him to overtly help the cartel in a way that shows he's basically a part of them and really cement that he's a different man than we saw from season 1. Hopefully that's what Kim's choice was alluding to.

He hasn't been in it much so far because Nacho's story demanded the time it got. Now that it's done, they will have to fill that time, no?

this speedwatcher fag got bulled out of the general so he made his own thread, lmao. eat shit faggot OP

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That's because he's not the antagonist, stupid. This is not a show of good guys and bad guys, i.e. a show without nuance. Go watch s5e10 again if you don't understand how destroying Howard gets them the Sandpiper money, that's the episode it was explained in, but the gist is that the case is currently being made to progress as slow as possible so HHM and Davis & Main have more billable hours on the books, it's basically in limbo, and there will be motivation to resolve the case as quickly as possible in order to avoid a PR nightmare if Howard's reputation is destroyed.

It's also not the only thing Jimmy and Kim are doing, Kim's putting tons of time and effort into her PD work, which is an important plot point for her character since a big part of why she's doing all this is because she's going full Robin Hood, and Jimmy's getting into hot water because he accidentally namedropped Lalo and now he has to decide if he's going to basically dime on the cartel in order to save his career.

>I don't like Kim for no reason
>So don't watch the show then
>Whoa dude why are you sperging out? Clearly my opinion is irrefutable

There's so much shit wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin?
No stakes? Kim is the most precious person Jimmy has in his life and even if you want to disregard it because you're a midwit shitposting you still have Gene, who has been identified.
>All he has is some convoluted plot to get back at Howard which I have yet to see anyone articulate why this makes any sense
Did you even watch the show? Cliff and Main is working with HHM on the Sandpiper case, Howard's reputation and by extension the reputation of HHM being tarnished could very well tank the entire case, which is why they're working mostly on Cliff himself seeing the writing on the wall and deciding to settle before anything comes up that could ruin that, retard.
>even though it's a huge risk for literally no payoff, as they already live comfortably and are guaranteed to get the money anyway.
And you're compeltely missing the point of why they're even doing it in the first place, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest
You get all pissy because people tell you that you were filtered, but it's the truth, you are in fact too dumb to enjoy a good show

I am hoping that the entire second half of the season is during the Gene timeline. It's one thing to do a flash-forward to the machine gun in Walt's trunk and then write your way into that scenario, but I think the prequel format has become far too constraining. I would even say that the show is a failed experiment overall. It started out great, but has really been dragging since Chuck died, due to the lack of stakes for Saul as OP mentioned.

>they chose to make fucking Howard the final boss
>final boss
It's no wonder you don't like or understand the show if this is the retarded reddit-tier way you look at things. Watch Game Of Thrones or Walking Dead or some shit.

nah, man. its completely out of character for him. the howard BS could only be explained by Jimmy wanting to project his shit onto Howard.

Howard is actually a fairly decent person, as far as lawyers go. If Jimmy were just looking for an excuse to take his anger out on someone, that would make sense, but Howard isn't the bad guy hes making him out to be, he felt remorse when Jimmy's brother died, he vouched for him and tried to make it up to him by giving him a good position at his firm, he was trying to do the right thing and I think Jimmy resented him for it.

It only makes sense if you see it as Jimmy projecting his, "You think your better than me?" attitude on Howard, because Howard is trying to be the better man.

It hasn’t been a show about lawyers since chuck died. Fuck S4 and beyond and fuck chuck haters

kim is so sweet and innocent. i hope she and gene find each other in omaha hand live happily ever after. also fuck howard hamlin

this

Jimmy even got Kim to believe his 'little guy' chip on his shoulder BS, just laying into Howard after Chucks death. He didn't really deserve that, even though it felt warranted at the time cause of all the shit Jimmy had been through.

Jimmy is just caught in a shame spiral and hes trying to take Howard down with him, because he doesn't have what it takes to man up and wear the big boy pants and stop getting into trouble.

Jimmy doesn't know when to quit, he doesn't know when to stop pushing his luck, thats his whole problem. He does dangerous shit and pulls petty scams that get him into trouble, then he burns the people around him who try to get him out of his scrapes. Sooner or later he was going to run out of people to bail him out, and thats exactly what happens, he gets in too deep with Salamanca and Fring and can't pull himself out of it.

I mean Howards not perfect, he doesn't always do things for the right reasons, but he knows what the right thing is and he tries to do it. He doesn't always succeed and his motivation isn't always pure, but he tries to follow the rules and do right by the people around him even if he doesn't always understand why hes doing it.

Jimmy wants to see Howard as this phony spoiled rich kid, and he is a little bit, but Howard is the one acting like and adult and Jimmy is the one acting like a child.

its like people forgot what the theme of breaking bad is - hubris

That wasn't your position, your position was that I don't like all the characters and should stop watching, because I dared to say your old hag waifu was a shit character.

I think the problem with Jimmy is that hes so relatable that its hard not to feel sympathetic to him, so you always sort of see him as this likable scoundrel, you run the risk of getting to close to him and getting burned in one of his scams. (or if your a writer, falling to close to Jimmies point of view.)

Jimmy never really dealt with the grief or personal guilt for what happened to Chuck. He bottled it away and used cognitive dissonance to convince himself that "well the world is made up of sheep and wolves, only way Chuck went out the way he did is because he's a sheep, so fuck him", partially exacerbated by the final conversation he had with his brother in which Chuck basically told him he was a bad person and to embrace it. He's developed a mechanism for justifying his own behavior, a classic con man cope of "anyone who is naive enough to fall for my schemes deserves what they get". It's true that Jimmy has a ton of anger directed at the world, particularly those he views as the rich, privileged or entitled (a category that his brother also fell into) and that Howard is somewhat of a scapegoat for this. It just makes matters easier that Howard actually is kind of a dick and more than a little selfish, and Jimmy gets 2-4 million dollars out of fucking him over.
>he was trying to do the right thing and I think Jimmy resented him for it.
There's a laundry list of reasons why offering him a job in that particular moment was a terrible idea. It's true that Howard isn't guilty of anything more than naivete there but it shows such a disregard for not only anything Jimmy built himself but his autonomy in general and it dredges up the muck of every humiliating thing he experienced on account of his brother and the horrible way all that shit ended. The last thing in the world he wants to do is go back to fucking HHM.
>Howard is trying to be the better man.
Howard is trying to be a better man because of how it makes him feel about himself. He doesn't actually care about Jimmy, not really. He sees him as a poor have-not who he can lift out of the dirt and look like a saint for doing so. Nothing could be more patronizing or insulting. Did Jimmy totally overreact by bowling his car? Of course. Doesn't mean Howard's a nice guy though. He's a quintessential douche.

It's not about Howard. It's about his negative influence on whatsherface ruining her, their relationship, and his chance of ever going legit. It's about him ending the series firmly and permanently in the camp of cartel lawyer.

Things get crazy and he needs Mike to bail him out.

but really isn't the 'billable hours' thing just an excuse? to take out his frustrations on somebody who plays by the rules and makes Jimmy feel like he's kind of a scumbag?

Making howard out to be some sort of villian isn't really in line with his character, for all his phony baloney bullshit, he really did try to do right by Jimmy even if maybe his intentions were a bit self interested.

But when has Jimmy ever shyed away from profiting himself during one of his 'crusades'? How is he any better than Howard when he probably would have done the exact same thing, drawn out the case to make more money, if he were in Howards position?

You shouldn't watch a show in which you don't like characters that are prominently featured in every single episode. You should watch things you like instead. That is my position, always has been, and the fact that you have to resort to hurr durr waifu just proves you have no actual argument.

Antagonist doesn't mean bad guy, and protagonist doesn't mean good guy, you fucking retard. You're entire opinion is disregarded.

>but really isn't the 'billable hours' thing just an excuse? to take out his frustrations on somebody who plays by the rules and makes Jimmy feel like he's kind of a scumbag?
I mean, yeah. That is kind of the point.
>Making howard out to be some sort of villian isn't really in line with his character
Agreed. However, he has made it awfully easy for people to vilify him by basically doing everything wrong.
>But when has Jimmy ever shyed away from profiting himself during one of his 'crusades'? How is he any better than Howard when he probably would have done the exact same thing, drawn out the case to make more money, if he were in Howards position?
I mean, he's a hypocrite. There's no denying that. But I'd say it's very true to real life that people have it in for those who represent negative reflections of themselves.

an·tag·o·nist
/anˈtaɡənəst/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: antagonist; plural noun: antagonists

a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.

I mean Howard was his friend, he was his coworker. He was loyal to Chuck because Chuck was his partner, but that doesn't mean he didn't try to do right by Jimmy.

I mean look at what happened when Jimmy got put on the tenure track at that other firm, he flushed his shot down the toilet because he couldn't handle the boredom of being a real lawyer so he threw away his career and even burned the people who hired him in good faith, taking his bonus with him even though he'd signed a contract.

I have a counter argument, I simply skip the scenes with her and her wooden acting.

Hey, if you want to argue that Jimmy is the bad guy here, I think that's a totally reasonable view to have. This show is ultimately about how a dirtbag criminal masquerading as a lawyer became a dirtbag criminal masquerading as a lawyer.

Your first statement about stakes makes no sense. Assuming you're saying he's afraid of losing Kim, there's no imminent threat that he will lose her motivating his actions.

And you conveniently didn't answer, yet again, why they need to destroy Howard to get Sandpiper money when they already have a lot of money and there's nothing pressuring them to get more. In fact, there's nothing pressuring them at all. The ONLY thing hanging over Saul is that he said Lalo's name to a prosecutor for some ungodly stupid reason. That plotline feels so shoehorned in it's absurd. But it shows that even they realized that there was nothing happening on the show.

>basically doing everything wrong.
in the sense that he is hopelessly naive and doesn't understand how the real world works, absolutely. But basically every mistake he made was on Jimmies behalf, his only real mistake was trusting and feeling sorry for Jimmy.

Bingo.

Right, but that's retarded. You might as well have it windowed at 2x speed while you're shitposting at the same time. If you're gonna watch the show, watch the show. Otherwise don't be surprised if people think you're an idiot and don't take your opinion seriously.

The whole point of both series is to show that people aren't really good or bad, and why the rules exist and you should generally follow them even if they aren't always fair.

he has stakes alright

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I still think its a good show, shitting on it really doesn't make sense. Considering its a spinoff, it would have been really easy to just tank the production and walk off with the money, but they are still putting in the effort even if a bit of fatigue is showing. I think maybe they just signed on for one too many seasons and the whole covid / netflix fiasco didn't help matters either.

Wow, you really are retarded. One, for having to look that up, and two, for not realizing an adversary can be a "good guy", especially if the protagonist of the story is a "bad guy". Fucking rube.

>b-b-but he has a huge ego
if that's his biggest sin he really is a choir boy. jimmy and kim are psychopaths. I hope they get fucked by Lalo.

Now you're in pure cope mode, still unable to answer a simple question about the plot.

Not quite. He made a lot of mistakes on Chuck's behalf, and most of his choices again came down to the preservation of his image. Keeping Chuck's illness quiet, enabling him by jumping through any hoop Chuck asked, and even compromising his own integrity by being forced into silence about the real reason why he wouldn't hire Jimmy. When he finally does offer Jimmy a job, he views it as offering Jimmy a job on his own terms and not asking him to pretend to be something he isn't, but to Jimmy it's just reopening old wounds, and to Jimmy he's only doing it to soothe his own guilt and to throw Chuck's less talented ne'er do well brother a bone. Settling for the lesser McGill since Chuck is no longer around.

To me that's what makes the show tragic. No one is really the "bad guy". But if there has to be one, it's definitely Jimmy. Not Howard.

He's a cocaine addict though. And he hangs out in antisemitic clubs.

>there's no imminent threat that he will lose her motivating his actions.
Did you just not watch Season 5 or something? Watch the show
>why they need to destroy Howard to get Sandpiper money
Watch the show, the characters EXPLICITLY say why they want to do this to Howard

5 iq take. Imagine being this nitpicky to paint Howard as a bad person, but being fine with all the other characters doing drastically, drastically worse shit all the time lmao. I like the show, but it better resolve this bizzare hatred towards Howard with Jimmy and Kim landing on their face and don't paint their childish bullying as justified.

I looked it up for your benefit since you clearly don't understand what it means. An antagonist is someone who "actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something". Howard isn't opposing or being hostile towards anything, so he's not an antagonist. The fact that I had to resort to dictionary definitions to clarify how retarded your argument is just shows how truly retarded it is. Now don't fucking @ me anymore, I'm sick of giving you yous

>write a giant paragraph of every fucked up thing Howard has done over five seasons
>so he just has a big ego, that's it?
I mean, I don't know how to help you if you are unable or unwilling to read.

And really the only time he wasn't in Jimmies corner was when he was standing behind Chuck. He said it himself, he was living in his fathers shadow and was afraid to do right by jimmy because Chuck was a friend of his fathers, he represented paternal authority and the establishment to Harold, he said he regretted it and he meant it.

Harold is almost like a babe in the woods at times, he didn't have a clue what was going on between Chuck and Jimmy, or Kim, or really anyone.

If he gave Kim a thrashing it was probably because he had a bit of a crush on her and felt hurt by her walking away from a firm that paid to put her through law school, he obviously felt guilty about how Chuck slammed Kim and made her take the fall because of her relationship with Jimmy, but because he was taught to respect authority he really couldn't say anything.

Every interaction Jimmy has with Harold is kind of like an adult playing a mean trick on a child.

Its not to say Harolds perfect, if he hadn't become a lawyer he'd fit right in playing a middle aged beach bum in LA sponging off his dads money, and would have been a lot happier too. He can be a bit of a dick, but lets be honest, would you give back the money you inherited just cause you failed to live up to your fathers expectations?

>Imagine being this nitpicky to paint Howard as a bad person, but being fine with all the other characters doing drastically, drastically worse shit all the time lmao
You lack basic reading comprehension if that's what you think I was doing. My entire point is that just because what Jimmy and Kim are doing is reprehensible doesn't mean their motivations aren't understandable. Not that what they're doing is awesome because Howard's a meanie head. And of fucking course it's going to blow up in their face. Even Stevie Wonder could see that.

well, sure, thats what he looks like through Jimmies or Kim's eyes, but look how biased they are. Of course he cares about his image, its his livelihood, nobody asks Jimmy to turn off his charm even when its wholly inappropriate, thats how he makes his money.

I think the whole thing just boils down to Jimmy and Kim being very petty and unforgiving towards him, they don't hate him for what he does so much as who he is.

That's my entire point you fool! I'm saying the show is trying to make Howard Jimmy's final antagonist (adversary). And obviously he opposes Jimmy's actions insofar as he knows about them. But regardless of Howard's agency in the matter, Jimmy has taken aim at Howard and made him into his opponent. As retarded as that is, it's what has happened.