They completely ruined him in the final act of the movie. For most of the movie Riddler is almost like an anti-hero. He’s targeting the corporate leaders of Gotham and killing them. It seems like him and Batman are sort of the same side but Riddler is willing to go the extra mile and kill people. Then at the end it turns out Riddler is just a generic terrorist and his actual plan is to destroy the city of Gotham and kill everyone. They should have had Riddler only targeting corrupt people the entire movie so when Batman eventually stops him it’s questionable if Batman is actually the hero not. But of course it’s a superhero movie so every villain needs to be completely evil with no redeeming qualities.
They completely ruined him in the final act of the movie. For most of the movie Riddler is almost like an anti-hero...
well they blew that with like an hour to go when he decides to target bruce wayne because his dad was evil.
kind of goes against his message. They should've had a secondary reason like
>wayne corp makes weapons of mass destruction and bruce wayne does nothing but cash checks
wow I could write movies. this is easy.
I think Riddler actually knowing Batman was Bruce Wayne would've magnified his obsessive behavior of "finding out the truth". When it turns out he didn't really know the two were the same, it just made Riddler look like an idiot. I was actually rooting for Riddler until the final act.
I think Matt Reeves realized he made a mistake in making Riddler too relatable and said "fuck it, let's have him do something really retarded for no reason like make a part of the city flood in 3 feet of water.
Why do people hate the flood scene? It was kino and made the Riddler look even more based.
For once, the "you complete me" aspect worked. Riddler peaked when he talked about what a good team he and Batman made. Then 10 seconds later he devolved into
>iiiiIIIIIIIIiiiIIII'M GOING INSAAAaaaaaaAAAANNNNEEEEE
The flood was keeping in line with classic batman stories where villians pull of all sorts of crazy schemes which result in thousands of deaths. Mass casualty events are common for batman and I'm glad this movie was self aware enough to include something that dark and ridiculous.
Because it was so pointless, it goes against how well organized Riddler was through the other acts.
Are we really supposed to believe that Batman didn't kill any of those gunmen?
That still lends to the fact that the writers fucked up by making Riddler too relatable. It doesn't make sense to have a structured character in a near 3 hour movie shit fhe bed in the last 20 minutes.
but it doesn't fit within the movie itself, which was op's point.
>I hate the corrupt
>I hate the lies
>kills a bunch of wagies
???
I'm not sure why you replied with me to say that about the flood scene. I was saying riddler's motivation had already gone full retard when he targeted bruce wayne for basically no reason.
Exactly, they hooked themselves up to lines? They wanted their terrorist act to be OSHA compliant?
I think the whole point is that the Riddler didn't really care about corruption. He killed those people because they had personally wronged him. He literally says to Batman "they'll remember me now". It was never about ridding the city of corruption, he was just a psychopath looking for attention and venting his frustrations. Flooding Gotham was a way to get that attention and to lash out at a city which had treated him like shit.
See
Did you even watch the movie? He wants to kill Bruce Wayne because he's jealous of him. Orphans like the Riddler were ignored while Bruce Wayne was celebrated just because he was rich. This is made blindingly clear during the interrogation scene retard.
I see your point, but I think he was speaking for himself as an orphan which was the basis of the monologue. If you take that into consideration with his targeting of people, it all stems from how the orphanage and orphans were left to rot because of the Renewal Project being abused.
That's what led to Riddler hating the Waynes and his rationale behind it.
> create villain who is correct
> make him sperg out and do completely irrational and pointlessly evil things because you can't refute him
Many such cases, especially in Capeshit.
Yep. I hate that final tacted on act the more I think about it. Feels like it turns into a different movie.
Christ you really didn't understand anything you watched did you
They already made a villain that won and was right in Joker and that movie got journalists so scared because they thought the movie was "glorifying incel mindset" that they tried to start a mass shooting for months with their articles an even got the military involved.
The writers couldn't let Riddler look better than Batman, especially when one of the writers is fhe fucking director. There's no real indicator to how long Batman has been Batman in this movie, right? This doesn't seem like "year one" to me. Batman should've been allowed to make mistakes, but he has to be seen as a flawless detective as soon as he put on the Hot Topic batsuit.
Maybe Bella real is corrupt
Also sped the film up again. It slowed down a bit in the middle
That could definitely be why they made Riddle look like a moron in the final act. Paul Dano made Riddler a legitimate force against Batman, and not some scrub like he always was.
How have you capeshit nerds not figured out capeshit ALWAYS turns to garbage because it's fundamentally a stupid comic book for children?
Am I the only one who wanted the ending “act” of the film to be some big saw booby trap maze or something that Batman has to navigate and save some people? I know that might sound cliched and obvious for The Riddler but I mean what the fuck, the city floods and Batman has to beat up Yea Forums incels? Riddler isn’t even the main bad guy at the end of the movie, the big villains become faceless /pol/ chuds. That’s like the dark knight ending with joker in prison and Batman just has to fight his goons as the climax of the film. Lame
So you wanted the final act to be predictable?
Yeah, it was when he targeted Bruce Wayne that his supposed code or brand of ethics fell apart. He found the killing of a journalist reprehensible, but murdering the innocent son of Thomas Wayne by proxy is somehow justified in his mind? That's when it all starts to break down. If they'd left him somewhat sympathetic, I think it would've been a finer film since both we and the protagonists might have felt conflicted about putting him away. But then they just had to give into the tired "Villain wants to kill everyone just 'cuz'" trope.
And let's be honest...no matter how you felt about the movie, it was a good hour too long.
I wanted to see a live action Arkham Knight riddler tier booby trap maze. I think that would’ve been awesome. Better than Batman just punching faceless goons
>the corporate leaders of Gotham
did you even watch it? that is not what happens in the movie
Why are 99% of webcomics so unfunny
The abandoned orphanage was a kino setting. I agree I want more saw type traps. Have some fun with your capeshit. This movie tries to take itself so seriously
Too emo is more like it.
It's still questionable because people like root for Riddler the whole way through
Being morally grey or doing the right thing isn't 'better' than an evil villain. It's the most Reddit opinion there is.
If you didn't realize, it's not even part of the themes of the movie. The theme is that everybody is crooked, and all the poor nobodies get their lives ruined by l the crooked people. Ruined so much that they even start doing shit like this.
It's a batman movie. He beats up insane people and puts them in an asylum. Batman himself is the anti-hero, who people think is just another insane dude. If Batman himself is already seemingly morally grey, it makes no sense to do that to his enemy. It's extremely bad even, from a plot point of view.
I feel that Batman would be morally grey, as you say, if he actually killed. To Gotham, he is morally grey, to the viewer, he's not. Catwoman would actually be who you're talking about because she was ready to kill, multiple times.
Predictable doesn't mean bad. And twist/subversion just to be unpredictable doesn't make things good.
Point taken, user.
Thumb Drive
Those "classic" batman stories don't start out with a serious villain tackling a serious problem, even helping batman with batman and members of the public agreeing with what he's doing. It was also terribly executed with no one important dying and everyone having plot armor. The fight scene was horrible too.
>He found the killing of a journalist reprehensible, but murdering the innocent son of Thomas Wayne by proxy is somehow justified in his mind?
Maybe that's because the Riddler is y'know.......FUCKING INSANE!
See
I root for him because Gotham was a degenerate crumbling shithole. The flooding both metaphorically and literally cleansed it.
because 4channel got destroyed by batman
Yes, I meant to Gotham. To the viewer he will never be morally grey, because we know he's a superhero.
In the Arkham games, Poison Ivy is in the asylum because she wanted to "save the earth" by spawning a forest in the middle of Gotham, killing thousands. That's just how it is in comic book settings.
... after he got rejected by batman. the autist was confronted with a turn of event he was not expected and couldnt handle it. fuckin DUH
Villains with those kinds of motivations are not considered good or memorable. This movie gave Riddler good motivations until the end.
>he was just a psychopath looking for attention and venting his frustrations.
Which ultimately makes him just like any other stereotypical, forgettable villain.
And that was a movie people loved and made more money than this on a tiny budget.
It's year 2. Bruce says so in the opening monologue.
It didn't make sense that Batman rejected him, since Batman was agreeing with him when talking to Gordon about these victims deserving what was happening. Batman should have been thanking Riddler or least show some appreciation for exposing the rat.
It's near perfect kino until Falcone gets killed, but you've already gotten like almost 2 hours of a movie by that point so I'll give the film a break and won't be too hard on the last hour. Yeah, the quality drops off, and it seems like two different scripts or screen rewrites were mashed together, but you gotta remember, originally Afleck was supposed to be this Batman, and then you have covid rewrites and additional shoots.
When you add up all the development hell this movie went through its actually pretty amazing it turned out as well as it did. A sequel with a solidly penned script from the get go and no rewrites or weird additional shoots would probably make a 10/10 Batkino if this movie is any indication of what Patterson and Reeves can do.
I hope there's a sequel.
You might literally be autistic if you think batman should have been thanking the diddler
what are the belts for?
I think you missed the point of the film. It's about justice vs revenge.
Batman pursues the former while Riddler the latter. The similarities between the two are because both justice and revenge involve the apprehension and punishment of wrongdoers.
The difference being that justice is about building something constructive after wrongdoing, and the end goal of revenge is to inflict pain. People enjoy it if a "bad guy" gets his comeuppance, so in a way revenge is also a part of justice.
Batman is always paying attention to the kids of victims (although he might just be a rich pedophile, lol) whereas riddler is only obsessed with how he was wronged.
The progression of Riddler from edgy antihero to malevolent terrorist makes sense to me. The desire for revenge only blooms into seeing the same evil in everyone else as you see in those who hurt you. It blossoms into misanthropy and isolation. Seriously, try thinking about someone who hurt you bad, and give it a few months and you will fantasize about random violence.
I just watched the movie though so maybe i will have a new opinion tomorrow
But Riddler at the start was very calculated with his violence. He suddenly makes the turn to random violence. He could have just done that in the first place and flooded the city if that was his feeling.
Who is there left to hurt? Arguably the person who cheated him the most was Falcone. Seeing as Riddler would not have such a shit life if he did not pilfer the renewal fund money.
He spent all of that time hurting people, including the mayor whose biggest crime was fucking a whore, but as it turns out, revenge is a bottomless pit.
We saw the same theme in the batman/catwoman dialogue
OP here I meant to say corrupt but I accidentally typed corporate.
>his actual plan is to destroy the city of Gotham and kill everyone
but that isn't his plan at all you fucking idiot
>wow I could write movies. this is easy.
why is it always idiots with the worst fucking ideas imaginable that say shit like this
The Riddler is a reflection of him in a negative way, not a positive one. He's the opposite of the kind of effect Batman has wanted to have - something that is literally stated word for word in the film - and his worst nightmare is that he's just like him.
REMEMBER REMEMBER THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER
>I think the whole point is that the Riddler didn't really care about corruption. He killed those people because they had personally wronged him. He literally says to Batman "they'll remember me now". It was never about ridding the city of corruption, he was just a psychopath looking for attention and venting his frustrations. Flooding Gotham was a way to get that attention and to lash out at a city which had treated him like shit.
Which is one of the reasons the movie was fucking stupid. It reduced itself to every other pointless "muh evil" villian which is a very Jewish trope from a Jewish comic book.
>It reduced itself to every other pointless "muh evil" villian
How is having personal reasons to destroy people who wronged you any more arguably defensible than killing corrupt politicians to clean up the streets?
>muh Jews
ah shit sorry I thought you were worth speaking to for a second
im horny user lets fuck
Is that when the new Call of Duty comes out?
>How is having personal reasons to destroy people who wronged you any more arguably defensible than killing corrupt politicians to clean up the streets?
Because the 2nd one is what every good man should do. The Riddler would be more interesting if he were actually doing good and the Batman was just keeping crime going by putting the Riddler away.
I hate that shit. They gotta try to make the villain be a schizo otherwise he makes too much sense