DON'T BULLY ME DANIEL

He was getting bullied.

He has no bargaining chip, really he has practically nothing left.

Who? Neither of them were. Also that's not the same brother you see for most of the movie. It's Paul Dano playing the other brother.

IVE ABANDONED MY CHILD IM ALSO ACTING IVE ABANDONED MY BOY DID I ALSO MENTION THAT IM ACTIIIINGGGG

He was broke and it was right before the stock market crash.

OHHHHHHHHH THIS IS NOT HOW THIS WAS SUPPOSE TO GO DANIEL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

ABAAAAAANDONMENT ELI
I
ABANDON
YOUR
CHIIIIIILD

Aside from the ending scene when he was blaspheming for money, did Eli ever actually do anything wrong? I suppose he beat up his father but to be fair, his father did seem like a lazy, stupid person.

Still, aside from that we don't see him do anything evil or abuse anyone the way Daniel did, Daniel just hated Eli.

They should have put him in a glass JAR on the mantelpiece

Eli and Daniel are both conmen. But Eli thinks he can also con Daniel, and that’s what always annoyed Daniel about him. He should’ve realized Daniel was going to see through it. The final time he tried was when he got what he always deserved

Yeah he had it coming for the bullshit he tried to pull at the end, but Eli is far less of a conman than Daniel is. Daniel simply hated Eli because Eli called him out on his bullshit and demanded more money for the oil land, which Eli didn't get right away and was rightly mad about. We never see Eli conning his followers, at least more than any other preacher "normally" does. Ultimately Daniel was far more evil than Eli and hated him simply because Eli was the only person to directly confront Daniel about the evil things he did.

Eli was also the only one to really stand up to Daniel's shit too. He was the biggest thorn in his side to getting the pipeline.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Throughout the movie we don't really see Eli doing anything wrong and he's the only one to stand up to Daniel, hence why Daniel hates him. Even at the end there's nothing to really suggest he was conning anyone, he just went about his begging in a really stupid way.

BASTARD FROM A BASKET

>Paul Dano playing twins, i.e the same people, in one movie
Yeah, I'm thinking classic

wait wat? isnt it the same Eli who Daniel beaqt up and pushed in the mud? i think it is and yore on drugs.

That kind of confused me because when I saw it I thought it was the same guy pretending to be someone else to get him or something.

To be fair I thought the same thing but when Eli beats up his father he mentions Paul. It would have been interesting though if Eli had pretended to be Paul as it would have confirmed that he was a conman but there were definitely two separate Danos there.

That’s an interesting look, you could be right. I haven’t seen the movie for a few years. But I think he was sort of a conman in many minor ways. He might’ve even believed in God, but he acted like he was some super holy, good guy, when it was obvious he was sort of just either very full of himself or being a con. I think from the beginning when he wanted Daniel to introduce him, and let him cut the ribbon tipped him off. And then after his son just went deaf and he didn’t show any compassion to Daniel also pissed him off because most kind hearted people, or even just okay people, would’ve realized how bad the timing is. And then when he used Daniel confessing just to slap him a bunch of times and humiliate him to sort of put himself back on top also proved he was like a mini, far less successful Daniel, that’s how I view it I think

>did Eli ever actually do anything wrong?
Humiliated Daniel the minute he found he had some leverage over him

Yeah, Eli is by no means a saint (again, he beat up his father for something that wasn't his father's fault), but he's still far less evil than Daniel and a lot of people interpret his character as being just as much a conman as Daniel but we never see Eli actually conning anyone.

Eli was full of himself with the speech, but he also never said anything to Daniel about it. And he tolerated Daniel blaming his worker's death on him even though obviously he didn't cause it. And since Daniel went right back to work after H.W.'s accident, why should Eli have confronted him about the money that Daniel owed him? Regarding the confession scene Eli was in the right since Daniel beat him up first and at least it got H.W. back.

Paul was actually asking DDL not to bully him

If you mean the H.W. thing he was right though, Daniel did abandon his son. Also, Daniel swindled him out of money and acted like a dick because Eli rightly insisted on his family getting their money's worth for their land.

You mean after Daniel beat the shit out of him for something he didn't/ couldn't do (give his son his hearing back)?

>but we never see Eli actually conning anyone.
He "healed" an old lady of her arthritis

She seemed pretty happy with the results, I see nothing wrong.

I bet you give money to televangelists

It's a very petty thing to do and we saw it's what ultimately got him killed

kino

I don't, but if people find relief in the power of suggestion who am I to question it? We see no indication that he was taking tons of money from her.

I think it’s fair to say Daniel did more evil things for sure. But it’s hard to say they weren’t pretty much just two different sides of the same coin. If Eli had been smarter, or had been in Daniel’s position, he might’ve done almost all of the same stuff he did. I think the scene when he beat up his dad was supposed to really show his true nature. He was mad that he lost the money, but he was also mad he let Daniel trick him. It shows that he was very entitled into thinking his father selling it was basically already his, and it was his dad’s fault he lost a sort of “battle” against Daniel. You have to be a real piece of shit to react that way, especially when you consider it was his dad and naturally your father would have authority over you, so he was sort of a tyrant

>conning just means making you part with your currency
How shallow can you get?

Haha classic Paul Dano

Oh no he made an old lady feel less pain in her life, what an evil conman!

I agree, though I still think we see nothing indicating that Eli was a legit conman in the way that Daniel was. And regarding the money, Eli had every right to be mad because I thought Daniel himself had agreed to give them that.

>Oh no he made an old lady feel less pain in her life
Did he? He brainwashed her into thinking she no longer had pain, just like Daniel brainwashed Eli's father into accepting less money. How are they both not conmen?

Well the question whether he did anything wise or not. The question was whether he did anything morally wrong or not. You could argue most people would view it as fair to treat Daniel that way after he comes crawling back to him because he needs to join the church in order to get the land he desperately needs.

>Owns a business and kills grifter parasites
>He's EVVIIIILLLL HE'S A CONMAAAAAAAN
Leftypol cumguzzling homosexuals up ITT

Brainwashing someone to feel slightly less pain in their painful, miserable life is pretty different from cheating people out of money you autist. Especially since Eli himself immediately knew Daniel was up to bullshit and made that clear.

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>just like Daniel brainwashed Eli's father into accepting less money
What fucking movie were you watching? He didn't "brainwash" anyone, he made a fair deal for his land based on the information Eli's father had.
As Daniel rightly pointed out, they wouldn't have had any idea there was oil there for sure if not for Daniel, and certainly would have never been able to extract and sell it without him. And when called out, he eventually gives Eli's family a properly due price

>Brainwashing someone to feel slightly less pain in their painful, miserable life is pretty different from cheating people out of money you autist.
I'd say the former is more harmful because then you have more control over the person, more than any amount of money can buy. Again you only seem to think money is the ultimate be all and end all. Atomic level of depth being displayed here.

Daniel is a shrewd businessman. I'm making a parallel between Eli and Daniel manipulating people for their own power.

>bullshit
>NO YOU CAN'T PROFIT FROM KNOWING THINGS OTHER PEOPLE DON'T
It's like you didn't even watch the fucking movie, it's right there in the picture you posted, it's not Daniel's sin, it's Abel's for being stupid (like you are)

Yeah, I kinda want to watch the film again now that I’m talking about it lol. I’m only going from memory so I don’t have perfect recollection of the scene, but I thought the final scene sort of gave away how little he actually believed in his own faith. Not just him agreeing to say God was a superstition but I think of him saying he was testing him but he still needed money from Daniel because God wasn’t giving him his hand or something. It just seemed like he was using God as an excuse to get money. You could still maintain a little plausible deniability though, the movie never gives you a 100% straight forward answer, but if that and his personality is anything to go by I’d personally put it at like 99% he’s only a con

>I'm making a parallel between Eli and Daniel manipulating people for their own power
The parallel leads to the damn point of their conflict - Daniel's dealings actually do something, they're productive and create profit and better lives for people. He guarantees results and even if he'll try to give you the shittiest terms he can in a deal, he'll honor the deal to death
Eli is selling superstition and hokery, is an oathbreaker, and is only seeking to extract money from people without giving them anything in return, while being smiles and assuring them of the best. He's Daniel's antithesis and it's why Daniel despises him

>because then you have more control over the person
Except that he didn't, as he was acting as a vessel for a greater power, God. Bringing comfort to the suffering by reminding them of said greater power is not conning them, unless you think all social religions are a con, in which case I tip my fedora to you.

>And he tolerated Daniel blaming his worker's death on him even though obviously he didn't cause it
eli is the one that blamed daniel for not letting him bless the well. daniel views the entire idea as being superstitious and absurd
>but Eli is far less of a conman than Daniel is
definitely true; daniel represents capitalism
>Daniel simply hated Eli because Eli called him out on his bullshit
maybe he was reminded of himself in terms of false promises. the angriest line (in tone) was "when are you gonna' come over to make my son hear again? can't you do that?!"
>did Eli ever actually do anything wrong?
comes down to whether or not you think being a preacher is wrong because he represented religion
there has never been an actor so good at ranting

youtu.be/iXfpKmNJxZY?t=97

you can feel his anger

I doubt Daniel actually cares about any of that. You probably believe he actually reveled half the state to be there.

>they're productive and create profit and better lives for people.
Well it didn't really work out for Daniel himself, his endeavors made him lose his son and become an insane recluse.

>as he was acting as a vessel for a greater power, God.
Get the fuck outta here Eli, no one believes you.

this is and i'm confused by you

>unless you think all social religions are a con, in which case I tip my fedora to you.
lol bro you can't dismiss an atheistic interpretation of this book

because that's the entire book. it's upton sinclair saying "religion and capitalism are the most evil things ever visited upon the world. daniel represents capitalism and eli represents religion. us normal people (represented by paul and H.W.) should just stay the fuck away. it's saying that religion and capitalism deserve each other but humans sure don't

So? He still did it?
What did Eli do with money from his followers? Literally gambled and lost it on the stock market

Still waiting for one instance of Daniel being a "conman" that isn't him shrewdly omitting information he has and the other party doesn't in a business deal, which is not the same as a con

>Except that he didn't, as he was acting as a vessel for a greater power, God.
But he was a false prophet and God is a superstition.

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He lied to people about why he was buying land, and also lied to other possible investors, and had a bastard as a prop to see more like an honest family man. I think he pretty much fits into being a conman. He lied about huge parts of the deal to get people to agree too

He literally kidnapped a kid to buy land.

>and had a bastard as a prop to see more like an honest family man.
That was just Daniel coping for losing his son, he genuinely loved HW before the accident.

You shouldn't bring the book into it too much because while PTA used it as inspiration, he didn't study it that carefully and went his own direction with a lot of things.

Omissions of important information can definitely be considered a con.

I’ll give him credit for being a decent enough person to take care of him, and not letting him die when he was a baby in the desert. But he probably didn’t love him that deeply. He cared about him, but he also gave liquor when he was a baby to not deal with him, and sent him off to not deal with him, so he only loved him until he became too big of a problem for him to want to deal with it seems to me

>and had a bastard
H.W. wasn't his, he was the son of the guy he had worked with.

He had used H.W. as a cute prop well before he went deaf. Remember that he lied about H.W. having a health issue or something as an excuse for wanting to buy up the Sunday ranch for cheap.

He originally took the kid because of his sense of responsibility to the worker.
Doesn't matter if he was adopted, Daniel and H.W. were family and nothing wrong with representing it as a family business
>He lied to people about why he was buying land
Lied by omission with information not known by the other party
And then capitulated when the other party revealed their knowledge instead of trying to deny it. He merely correctly pointed out they couldn't drill it and sell it on their own

Seems pretty weak, like you only want to hate Daniel because he was rich

We really don't have enough backstory at that point in the story to judge why he took him.

>Omissions of important information can definitely be considered a con.
Only when it pertains to financial damage, not possible missing out of financial gains.
I literally just registered a company for public trading using SEC form Reg CF, I know more about disclosures in business than you

>but he also gave liquor when he was a baby to not deal with him
That used to be a fairly common thing to get babies to sleep

>and sent him off to not deal with him
Right and that's when he stopped loving him and started getting more obsessed with his business. One of the few times Daniel showed vulnerable emotions was when he was almost bawling his eyes out when he left HW on the train. Unless you think he was crying because he realized he'd no longer have that sweet face to butter up future clients.

>Remember that he lied about H.W. having a health issue or something as an excuse for wanting to buy up the Sunday ranch for cheap.
Remember that he also didn't just go there to scout for land, they also camped and hunted quail. If he didn't love HW as a son there would've been no reason for him to do these dad things with him.

>We really don't have enough backstory at that point in the story to judge why he took him.

>Daniel starts an oil company
>One of his workers brings his baby to work because he obviously has no wife anymore to look after it, duh
>Worker dies under Daniel's watch
>Daniel sees baby with no family, whose father was previously under his employ

You're fucking right, we didn't get a 20 minute flashback on Daniel's childhood and lack of a father figure, why he took in that child will be forever a mystery!!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=E23tyJN0kHw
He said he would give Eli the 5k and be a lifelong supporter of the church when he got the oil and never did.