Hey folks, I just travelled across the whole world to invite you to join our cult

Christfags fear the samurai.

>implying that it wasnt the case already.

Because Jap acting is always bad; they inherited their traditions from kabuki theater, which was always over-the-top.

I mean it's okay to mock them but could you also internalize their struggle, even if they indeed ended up causing more harm to others than they thought was possible for them to do there was a real emotional struggle to give up the idea that they hold more dearly in their lives than any other thing up to the point that it took extreme psychological torture to change.
What would be your limit on whatever is that you hold dear and right?

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>there was a real emotional struggle to give up the idea that they hold more dearly in their lives than any other thing up to the point that it took extreme psychological torture to change
And it didn't actually change. Even in the last scene, we see this. I think a lot of people kind of miss the boat on the meaning and significance behind this movie. The missionaries weren't, in my opinion, supposed to be viewed as good or bad guys. We simply follow their struggles.

>Japs adopt Buddhism and no one bats an eye
>Japs try to adopt Christianity and everyone loses their mind

because buddhism is compatible with shintoism
worshipping a kike on a stick isn't

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wow, great argument, I'm speechless

Yeah exactly, even that fake change took all the happiness he ever could have for the rest of his live.
He could have forgiven himself, move on, be good to strangers again, but he considered himself too evil at that point and he deliberately choose pain or could only have pain.
What went through his head the last moments before he died? I hope God forgive me? I hope God didn't forgive me? I deserve whatever happens to me? Will my wife keep her promise?
All in all incredibly painful live to live and death to have, could or you blame him for at his last moments "cope" for hope do you feel that confident to call him a monster or that because his 100% wrong in his believes you don't have sympathy for him?
Well I don't, I do feel extremely bad for the character we were presented and his struggles even after all the much bigger pain they're, but not entirely, responsible for.

You didn't make an argument so you get no arguments in return, simple as

Japs think exponentially more about Christianity than Westerners think about Buddhism/Shinto. Japs love putting Christian imagery in their anime and shit because it looks cool even if they don't get it, but Americans don't know or care jack shit about Buddha outside of Asian expats or dumb impressionable hippies.

From what I understand they just took the original Buddhism view of gods as the in between enlightened and themselves.
They just ignore the holes in the story like in most religions and continue.
Also they were introduced to it by Korean people and therefore the Chinese empire. Similar looking people and the ones that you acknowledge as the origin of your current society has a lot more respect than foreigners who you've always been extremely afraid/hateful for.
Combine that with the colonisation of your neighbors and well..

Japs were pretty open to Christianity early on, it was really just Toyotomi Hideyoshi and then Tokugawa Ieyasu being paranoid about their growing influence that led to it being outlawed.

Well christian lore is pretty cool and straight forward God good, demon/Satan bad. So I can see why it's easier to include christian stuff into your story since it have cool stuff and is easy to understand while Buddhism is more complex to implement.

This movie is kino and you're retarded if you disagree. You don't even need to be Christian, you just have to not be a neurotic nerd.

Just take four badass guys, call them your main character's/main villain's Four Heavenly Kings and be done with it, easy.

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Isn't that what most isekai story are already anyway?

>you just have to not be a neurotic nerd.

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Not even the actual story, just the way shit looks and feels.

>Japanese media that draws upon Catholic aesthetics
The Bells of Nagasaki
Fighting Elegy
Cowboy Bebop
Evangelion
Vampire Hunter D
Ultraman
Devil May Cry
Bloodborne
Fire Emblem
Castlevania (the actual Japanese games, not the fedora amerimutt cartoon)

>Western media that draws upon Shintoism/Buddhist aesthetics
Silence
Ghost Dog

this is one of two movies that people say just filters plebs but I just think it's fucking boring.

As cliche as it is, I think it's up to the watcher to decide if the missionaries are good or bad. It's very essy to say, "Look at these retards. They could just renounce their religion and save themselves and let the Japanese who converted die, and that would be the end of it!" And honestly, I think that's a fine take to have, even though I think it kind of misses the point.

I'm finding it hard to put into words exactly what I think Scorcese was going for. He continually highlighted scenes where they could have given up their faith at any time and the movie would have ended there. There's this continuous tragic theme of human strength of belief being both good and bad. That's why I think this movie wasn't supposed to be a good guys/bad guys thing. It was a bittersweet tragedy about the cruelty and misguidedness and strength of men.

Yes. People here like to complain and/or make fun of the shallow representation of Christian themes in Jap media but their representation of Buddhism generally isn't any more complex either.

There were no fear for colonization and such in the 7th century
But actually the rulers of Japan has a history of suppressing Buddhist sects as well
The same thing that both christians and muslims have a history of attacking other groups of the same religion

Christianity was actually in Japan first.
nestorian.org/christianity_arrived_in_japan_centuries_before_saint_xavier.html

Buddhism is a religion for pajeets and bug people to keep them complacent, that's why glowniggers push it over Christianity.

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CHOTTO MATE

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Yeah I agree with you for the most part that's what "it is" but for personal reasons I step a little bit more towards compassion for them.
I would say I think that Scorcese being more of a believer in Christianity than you or me purposely made the movie as balance as possible but the final scene of the grass cross evoked to me, before googling if he was christian or not, that he "felt" that there's some holiness (which is to say beyond logic and unprovable yet being truthful) to it. Hearing the voice of Jesus was also seem to be a confirmation for it
I also observe that as a good director he doesn't tell you exactly what he thought yours and other interpretation are valid.
Perhaps I'm loosing you and many people because I'm bias but I hope that me aknowlodging and claiming I can't not feel this way makes up for some of it.

Yes, we all read Steel Ball Run.

Lmao I want to believe

christ was buried in usa though

Yeah, like I said, I don't think there's a wrong take on this movie (even for the guys who call it shit). I was just giving my interpretation. It's a fantastic movie.

Christianity was extremely popular in Japan and missionaries were welcomed. It was because it spread so much that the Shoguns felt threatened, but even after that, there was a considerable underground influence.
amazon.com/Christian-Samurai-Trials-Baba-Bunko/dp/0813228514
Anti-colonial retards and fedora faggots have a simplistic view of history.

>Nestorianism
cringe, only a half-step above Gnostic larps

Point stands, there was a form of Christianity in Japan before buddhism.

>But actually the rulers of Japan has a history of suppressing Buddhist sects as well
This, I'm like 90% sure the Tokugawa shogunate would've outlawed Buddhism as well if it hadn't already been so entrenched in all of Japanese society.

Dont expect fedoras to understand history.

then why all the torture porn from scorsese?

This is hilarious. Hey, I believe it.

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Honestly the monks were very complacent and even at some points active participant in exploitation so you're not wrong about that. I don't believe in conspiracy theories.
It's not very discussed today but it's also pretty sexist like saying women can't reach Buddhahood because they're a karmic punishment. Some hold menstruation as an impurity and similar attitudes exist in the other major Indian religions like jainism (lol) and sikhism. I don't like how that's not often acknowledge by contemporary western bhudist.
To me there's some historical baggage with following those religions and if we're going to "choose" which version is palatable to our sensitivities we can do the same for the abrahamic religions and to some extent that's what most people who are if those religions do nowadays just not to the same level.
I guess it's just that it's very accepted and there's a lot of communities that are sorts of engineer around our world view in secular Buddhism while not so much for the abrahamic religions.

Tokugawa was based as hell.

Islam >>>>> Christshit.

Tokugawa accepted establisment Buddhism.

Ikko Ikki, the most radical sect, was already purged by Nobunaga.

The reason Christianity was persecuted isn't because the religion itself was seen as dangerous or incompatible, it's because the religion was exclusively foreign. Toyotomi and Tokugawa wanted to rule Japan exclusively and having foreign agents spreading foreign influence and subverting their ports and peoples was the exact opposite of that. The Jap leadership was acutely aware of this influence since they'd been doing the same thing to the Korean peninsula for decades.

In saying that, that's only the meta explanation for the period. In the personal tales of Japanese Christians and European missionaries there is a great deal of very personal aspects of morals and paradigms clashing, which is what Silence is about.

However the biggest takeaway from Silence for me was that Garfield could actually fucking act since I'd only seen him in Spiderman.

Except some people did want to convert and worship a different sky god and then got persecuted for it.

Hideyoshi went pretty hard on Buddhists as well iirc, the big temples were always a thorn in the feudal lords' side

Nani?

It is said that Buddhism at its core is very radical, thus it must be tempered by the government.

This is why Shaolin template was burned down many times.

It's more or less because the christians were trying to build a colony in Japan and try to subvert the government.

Similar things happen in various parts of Asia, it has nothing to do with religions.

In fact, many samurai in Japan accepted Christianity just because they can trade with westerners and get guns.

Westerners think a shit ton about buddhism. They just cope by treating aspects of it as disparate philosophy. Reincarnation, karma, nirvana, meditation, yoga, vegetarianism all come from buddhist practices.

This.
Religion was never about actual faith.
Religious missions were glorified spies, whise primary objective was to observe and document.
Christian missionaries are how western powers stole the secrets of silk production and probably heat resistant porcelain.