Voyager

Lizard sex.

The three main white male characters. Other than that, the Vulcan's bolt-ons if you're into that.

It cares about the timeline and respects the lore
season 1 is a little odd as they find their footing but every Trek is like that.
Its interesting to see humanity dealing with Star Trek problems pre-federation and the mistakes and events that create the values that eventually create the Federation.

T'Iddies

You can tell by BSG that Moore wanted a show with actual long term plotlines and consequences.
They try to set Voyager up different as they have to deal with limited resources and lack of resupply early, even mentioning the exact number of torpedoes they have left. As the show goes on they lose this aspect hard and it just feels like TNG on a field trip to the Delta Quadrant.
Enterprise kind of gets this more right as while its still an episodic story of the week show things that happen can have multi episode consequences.

>Why the hate?

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I haven't seen it in a long time and I have probably only seen like a third of the episodes at most, but from what I remember the issue for Voyager was the lack chemistry between the actors/characters plus the lack of exploring interesting serious themes. TNG was elevated by Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner's performances plus gripping philosophical episodes like The Measure of a Man, plus interesting Klingon politics stuff and Worf's "Klingon raised by humans" character. DS9 had interesting war/war-crime drama like Duet, influenced by WW2 and probably the Balkan wars, plus then you had characters like Quark, Garak, and Dukat - and in general the whole Bajoran-Cardassian backstory had a certain heft. And the whole set design of a Cardassian station repurposed by the Federation was kino, with the Starfleet uniforms superimposed on the Cardassian bleak gray/brown. In comparison, Voyager was just kinda... meh. No real breakout performances until The Doctor, not that much exploration of serious themes from what I can remember... overall not a bad show, but just I don't remember much about it that was particularly gripping.

The Kazon were a shitty enemy which they at least stopped using after the first couple of seasons.

What's up with the ST threads today? Anyways in another one that got archived before I could ask, some had a problem with Kirk being a womanizer, and I'm just in s1 of TOS but several women already want his dick real bad. If their complaints come from the reboot movies, well to me I'd make sense that in another universe he could very well be a ladies man.

I do feel like Phlox would have been better if he was more serious, but his species fuck like mad and I wouldn't say no to his wife.
>homeboy fucked a martian once.

Because most of the episodes aren’t even sci-fi and are just generally boring. It’s like they ran out of material after the first season so they made Janeway increasingly unhinged to make up for it

Its good as soon as they dump Kess and find the groove. Voyager is underrated as is Enterprise. NuTrek is the worst shit i’ve ever seen.

This is my ranking as well but i still really like Voy. There are some excellent episodes/arcs

Voyager had a lot of experimental episodes. The year of hell was a lot of fun. The Thaw episode with the AI that held it's human hosts hostage for its own enjoyment. Tuvix. The one where they kidnap 7 to fight in gladiator battles.

the cast is a boring charisma vacuum who aren't at all fun at all to follow, and it does not in any way properly utilize the premise of the series. the biggest example of completely squandered potential ever

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> There are some excellent episodes/arcs
Such as?

Respect for Archer as he’s the guy who has to write the instruction book. The Xindi storyline was serialized and had a pretty neat reveal as did temporal cold war. Wish we got the season 5 Cardassian war they were planning. The last episode is fucking terrible though and retconned with novels so be warned.

Tbh i’d have to take a look and refresh as its been like 3 years since my last rewatch but there were def some bangers.

The Year of Hell, The Killing Game, The Thaw, the void, Warlord, Blink of an eye

>The one where they kidnap 7 to fight in gladiator battles
IF YOU SMELLLLL

Neelix annoyed the shit out of me long ago.
Since then, I have learned to enjoy the dynamic between Neex and Tuvok.
Neelix annoys Tuvok so bad he chokes him to death in a holo-recreation to relieve the stress Neex causes him.

He's not. It's a stupid meme that took off and gets parroted by people who don't actually watch the show.

>but every Trek is like that.
Not every Trek. TOS was great out of the gate.

Voyager should have been ragtag, just manage to scrape by survival. Instead they are living in luxury on the other side of the Galaxy.

Also the only good characters are the EMH and 7of9

I’m fine with anything pre-Kurtzman pretty much. Enterprise was probably my least favorite but it’s also the one I’ve watched the least of by far.

It’s funny, when diversity isn’t being actively touted as a major guiding principle for a production no one seems to complain. It never bothered me that Sisko is black or Janeway is a woman, they’re both great characters. It’s the browbeating bullshit that bothers me.

There’s also a stark difference between how pre-Kurtzman trek handled social commentary vs the shows now. Even when the writers clearly favored a particular viewpoint, they still generally made a fair case for the opposing view. The writers in that era were actually smart people and it is immediately evident in the shows they produced. Now you just get fucking Stacy Abrams as President of the United Earth of Color

Scenes with the Doctor and Seven were always great. Tuvok and Seven as well. I don't know why they didn't have them together more.

It was a ship that was specifically designed for deep space exploration and to be out on missions for very long periods of time. It wasn't like the ship they ran into during the episodes the Equinox.

Deep space exploration in relatively safe environments. Voyager looking new after every battle was extremely stupid.

Very true. The idea of a Voyageur show would be far better done in this era of serialized 10 episode seasons. Almost nothing that happens in that show carries over to the next episode.

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That and Chakotay almost immediately becomes Janeway's lapdog. It was rather pathetic writing that doomed that show for me.

Im theory, undetermined amount of time passed between most episodes which implies regular maintenance was performed also they did meet friendly species from time to time which helped them out. The Year of Hell episodes at least capitalized on what you're talking about though they were under constant attack.

Year of Hell lasted two episodes and was rebooted as if nothing happened at the end of it. Year of Hell showed exactly what the problem with Voyager was.

More like what your problem with Voyager is.

Janeway is annoying and sounds more like the mom from Malcom in the Middle than a proper captain like Picard.

I saw Voyager get destroyed or nearly destroyed more times than I could bother to count. The were constatly losing or abandoning shuttles, and used far more photon torpedoes than they had. The time travel shitfuckery made canon irrelevant. I still enjoyed watching it, even though it made little sense. The Captain Proton episodes were silly fun, and Insaneway is now an Admiral on Prodigy.

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Voyager felt like TNG but it was microwaved as a packaged dinner meal. Not to mention the inconsistencies with the universe canon. Still better than the modern shit though.
And the Kazon were absolutely stupid

Paris wanted to steal her away and bang her brains out.

Voyager is my favorite. I don't even know why. It's just comfy.

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Lol

Paris sperm is the true hero of Voyager. He got Kes, Janeway and B'ELanna pregnant.

People saw TNG first so anything that's different is shit to those people. I saw Voyager first, and to me it's a lot better than TNG.

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Voyager plot hole discussion, for fun.

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I think people only hate Neelix because of their idea of what he is, not what he actually is. He is very little like Jar Jar Binks. He has a lot of humorous scenes, especially with characters like Tuvok. And when he is the focus of an episode, it's usually a really good dark episode (Mortal Coil, Fair Trade, Jetrel, etc) not a retarded one.

This is my favorite Star Trek. Mostly because it has the best cast all around. Although they messed up in the later seasons by giving Tuvok nothing to do.

It was "as if" nothing happened because it was a time travel thing and the timeline got changed. So it didn't actually happen.

Waste of unique premise made it mediocre.
90% of the characters being boring or terrible written kills it for me. Only the Doctor and sometimes Seven had good episodes.

This. The 'there is no afterlife' episode was great. And I started liking him a lot more when Kes left and he got some development away from her. Neelix is a good guy.

Exactly. Next to no consequences for actions. It was rather shit storytelling.

Neelix's humorous scenes, especially the ones with Tuvok, are primarily about him being annoying, exactly like Jar Jar.
Also, Neelix as a general rule just sort of sabotages everything around him for no real reason.

Voyager was one the few shows to ever pull off the strong woman shit. Still worst of the prime trek shows though.

Enterprise is embarrassingly bad at first but finally became enjoyable in time for them to cancel it.

But you're fine with Troi, Crusher, Wesley, Geordi? Voyager characters come out fine in the comparison.