Are artists born? Or can people become artists through effort and determination? Is it the fate of the latter sort to forever remain frauds in the shadow of the former group?
Are artists born? Or can people become artists through effort and determination...
Jaxon Perez
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Parker Martinez
No one becomes an artist without effort and determination
Asher Lee
Of course. I didn't doubt that.
Benjamin Campbell
Don't know why anyone would be a fraud. Not having talent doesn't mean one is a fraud or not an artist.
Anyway, nobody can really satisfyingly answer your question because a person's fate can be known only once it has already happened and been set in stone. Also, an artist being considered a genius very much depends on his surroundings, adequate reception, connections, caprices of various factors that have nothing to do with some idea of transcendental aesthetic value. Melville died in the shadow of many more popular and more positively regarded writers of his time. Until people like half a century after he had croaked realised that Moby-Dick is, in fact, the shit.
You're really just asking because you're afraid that you're the fraud, isn't that right?
Kevin Bell
that's a big headed fag
Nolan White
There is one thing to be said of a Noble Birth.
There is entirely another thing to be said of if your mom dyed her hair when you were twelve.
fgsdgs
Chase Lopez
Is that my guy? I like the floral couch
Asher Scott
This lad has the right idea. It's undeniably that effort, practice, and determination are all nessecary for any sort of artist to access their full capabilities. Think about the sport of weightlifting. Nobody is able to do that before training. Effort and determination are required to turn the potential into the actual. I believe art is highly similar. While it might seem like some are innately better than others, I would think this a result of them having experience practicing other skills which would also aid in producing art. Something you may want to consider is "outsider art"; art made by people without formal education. As well, the existence Geschwind Syndrome (and the fact that Dostoyevsky had it) would indicate the existence of a very small number of "natural artists" (however "naturally art-oriented people" is unquestionably a more fitting descriptor).
Nolan Wright
>Are artists born?
Of course not. Nobody comes out the womb writing, composing, directing, whatever.
Elijah Walker
dont 'syndrome' art - its a cheap means to undervalue art and artists even more
William Martinez
I think most anons on Yea Forums underestimate how much great writers like Melville, Joyce, and Faulkner read.
If you look into their biographies, yes they were really sharp, but they also read fucking everything, and then they read it again. Faulkner didn't just read Hamlet, Faulkner read every Shakespeare play many, many times over the course of his whole life. On an almost yearly basis.
Joyce read so fucking much.
If you actually read as much as they read, you'd probably be able to write some good shit and you'd probably be really fucking smart. Maybe you wouldn't match them, but anons overestimate ability/talent/god-bestowed genius, and underestimate how much time, determination, and extended attention great writers gave to their predecessors.
Samuel Davis
Natural talent is nothing without hard work. However, hard work alone doesn't guarantee genius. As they said in ancient times, the gods had to have selected you as a vessel to carry their divine message to the rest of the plebeians.
John Clark
I believe some people are gifted in arts.
John Brown
Anyone can become an "artist" in the sense that even literal retards can smear paint on a canvas or whatever, and most people can probably achieve a decent level of skill with enough practice.
However, whether or not you will produce anything that actually has any real value comes down purely to talent.
Aiden Rodriguez
the big issue is you can't do shit like that anymore without having someone to support you entirely (good luck) or happily being homeless/unemployed.
We're the least free to pursue art and passion than any that have come before us.
Xavier Hughes
Natural born talent is a big fucking myth.
People choose to believe that successful people are born with a natural gift. That makes it much more easier to come to terms with their own shortcomings.
Think of people who are commonly said to be “natural prodigies” – people who display extraordinary skills with little or no training. Mozart, Picasso, Bobby Fischer, or Tiger Woods.
If you were to investigate further the stories of such “prodigies”, I can guarantee, you will not find a convincing case for anyone developing extraordinary abilities without intense, extended practice.
Consider Mozart, who was so accomplished at such a young age that there seems to be no way to explain it other than assuming he was born with a divine spark.
Upon closer inspection, however, Mozart’s spectacular abilities aren’t that inexplicable. For one thing, it’s not uncommon nowadays to have four-year-olds playing musical instruments with remarkable facility and better than most adults. Many of these “natural prodigies” start practice as early as age two. Mozart himself probably began his training before the age of four.
What about his compositions? Well, turns out his first serious compositions were written when he was fifteen or sixteen – after more than ten years of practice under his father. A father who was a famous music teacher at the time and pushed Wolfgang from a tender age.
So there goes Mozart’s legend of being a natural.
The same can be said for other “prodigies.” While normal kids play in the sandbox, they are practicing. They tend to start incredibly early and have parents who push them into inhumane practice schedules. It’s not a story of talent, but of hard work.
Grayson Jones
On the contrary, you don't need to make a lot of money to live well. Even the middle class today live better than the aristocrats did in Europe long ago, who used to shit in buckets. Not to mention, we have an enormous amount of work by scholars that we can read within a couple of hours that took them years to put together. We have ample resources to create, that would've taken our forefathers voyages by foot to reach, when we can do it with a click.
Grayson Watson
Then explain why everyone who trains as hard as Mozart will never have his level of mastery nor fame. If your logic was the case, we would have an immense catalog of musical geniuses, yet that list is very short, despite the hundreds of years of tradition. If some do achieve something with their insane hours put into training, it's the few who were actually born with something in their soul other than lessons from childhood.
Jose Hernandez
the difference is the average man today actually has less "free time" (not including necessities such as eating/commutting) to do as he pleases, and it is continuously on the decline.
the modern middle class is only superior in materiel wealth and health. nothing more. we shouldn't be working 40 hour work weeks, we should be working 20 hour work weeks, max 30.
Colton Brooks
I’m 23 and just started reading again at 20, Im slowly progressing and reading has become my main hobby now. Once I read the entire bible, paradise lost, Divine comedy, homer, canterbury, aeneid, and complete Shakespeare I’ll be fulfilled.
Gabriel King
>and it is continuously on the decline
I don't necessarily think so.
I don't know about US. But at least where I live there's been a big push for 6 hour work days and 4 day weeks. Some companies been doing these already with some real good results. Of course not every line of work can do such a change, at least without any major changes, but office jobs can very easily do that without losing much (if any) productivity.
In my own field of work (I'm a nurse at a nursing home) I don't see either happening any time soon though, considering how our country is already knee deep in trouble when it comes to workforce, young people don't like the line of work, it's more demanding than they think when they first get into it, so we're in trouble with that and cutting work hours isn't solving any of that.
Jack Myers
USA would never do that even though they could.
Cooper Cruz
yes, I am in particular talking about the US, where last I checked the average worker puts in about 160 more hours a year than a UK peasant did in the same time. Also it needs to be noted that the way they kept peasants content was by providing ample vacation and rest. This, in tandem with seasonal working structure, resulted in much more leisure.
Now you need to commute, work 8 hours, minimum usually, but there's a strong culture around staying 10, even 12 hours some days, commute home, cook and eat, and now you have all of about 2-4 hours to truly leisure.
Michael Nelson
>everyone who trains as hard as Mozart
Not many start learning instruments and composition as little kids taught by highly regarded teachers. Barely anyone does, as far as I know.
>will never have his level of mastery
Why do you assume that nobody has been comparable? How do you even check that?
>nor fame.
Fame depends on the audience, not the intrinsic value of the composer's music. I hope I don't have to give out specific examples, just taking a glance at the history of music until the present day shows how capricious fame is.
>If your logic was the case, we would have an immense catalog of musical geniuses, yet that list is very short,
His logic doesn't necessarily suggest that. You may also have a narrow idea of what genius is. Just because they're not memed to death such as Mozart, it doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of composers whose art is basically just as powerful as his.
Ryan Clark
Once some more European countries implement the shorter workdays and weeks I'm sure there will be more than enough evidence of not losing any productivity with the shift.
That gives a chance of it being considered in the US for sure. I'll give it 5-7 years and I'm sure the shorter hours and weeks will be standard all around the world, excluding Asia, Japanese and Chinese are kinda crazy when it comes to their work culture.
Jack Cooper
It's not about actual productivity in the USA though, it's about persistent puritan Christian values that uphold ideas of work ethic as the only way to prove worth to society.
If you don't work you don't deserve [to] eat, live, move, healthcare, etc.
People will vehemently fight against a 20 hour work week because it will be "unfair" to those who worked 40 hours all their lives and got the same, or less, and people will feel worthless, etc.
It's absurd.
Jacob Lee
For one, many children who have parents that expect great things of them will get them a tutor at an early age. Seriously, they are tryouts to preschools in NYC.
Second, I grant you that point. I'm not well studied in music.
Third, almost everyone hears his name or music at least once in their life (if they aren't third world). Can't say that about Liszt or Bach.
Fourth, he suggests that hard work trumps talent. My response was that talent trumps hard work. Look at someone like Woolf who meticulously edited her work and even had her husband proofreading. Then you have people like Nietzsche who produced Beyond Good and Evil, Thus Spake Zarathustra and Twilight of the idols within a year, before going mad.
>It's not in vain that I have buried my 44th year of life today, because I have the right to -- that which was worthy for being saved is now immortalized by my work.
Adrian Cook
>can people become artists through effort and determination?
Of course. It's not even that difficult you just have to sacrifice and commit, even when the allure wears off, even when it stops being fun.
Ryder Scott
If you open a newspaper today, almost all you read about is Thomas Mann. He’s been dead thirty years now, and again and again, endlessly, it’s unbearable. Even though he was a petit-bourgeois writer, who only wrote for a petit-bourgeois readership. It’s uninspired and stupid, some fiddle-playing professor who travels somewhere, or a family in Lübeck, how lovely. What rubbish Thomas Mann churned out about political matters, really. He was totally uptight and a typical German petit bourgeois. With a greedy wife.
Camden Anderson
*blocks your path*
Matthew Richardson
Calm down schizo
Wyatt Rodriguez
Everyone saying you can 'become' an artist is retarded and naive. You are born virtuoso at something, you have to discover what, but you can't turn into an artist if you aren't born one.
And this is how I can prove it. LOOK AT HITLER. He wanted to be an artist yet couldn't, he tried really hard and yet he couldn't.
Sometimes I think it would have been better for the whole world if he had just 'become' an artist. But he couldn't. Most people can't. Artist are born, not made.