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Is Stoicism a cucked philosophy?
Jace Brooks
Logan Thomas
It's a good philosophy for people who live hard lives.
Alexander Adams
no. go back to study now.
Brody Jones
Essentially, yes.
Michael Powell
No.
And Marcus Aurelius' wife was likely not a slut. She was actually a bitter enemy to a very influential guy who was the master of the people who would later write history.
Jack James
slave morality
Joseph Torres
Stoicism is homegrown "mindfulness" cuckoldry. So yes.
Matthew Martin
Compared to the men who wrote the surviving Stoic materials, Nietzsche was a huge failure at life.
Seneca was a very powerful politician and the prime minister of Rome for a while.
Arrian (who wrote the Discourses of Epictetus) was a governor of multiple provinces and a successful general who stopped an invasion against Rome.
Marcus Aurelius was not only the Roman Emperor, but one who was acknowledged as being pretty good at it.
Parker Baker
Not unless you read everything disingenuously.
Joshua Hernandez
Every single one of those people owe their success to being born into the right families lol.
Henry Ward
Plenty of people were born in the right families and they happened to excel above the mean
Noah Taylor
So master morality?
Easton Lewis
Seneca was from a rich family, but he rose to power due to his political ability.
Arrian was one of the first Greeks to rise to the highest rankings of Roman politics.
Marcus Aurelius was chosen when he was a teenager to be the future Emperor by Hadrian.
Mason Adams
they were all larping bc they could afford to. stoicism is slave morality at its roots.
Asher Sanders
>childhood circumstance determines the value of your life's accomplishments
what an absolute pleb
Grayson Anderson
yes and it's a cope, but there's nothing wrong with that sometimes
Xavier Richardson
all philosophy is cope
Jonathan Kelly
real tired of this meme
Logan Rivera
I do find the notion that the universe has a great plan in motion (logos), which is inherently good and should be trusted to be somewhat cucked.
The universe is indifferent. It is entirely up to us to determine the relative goodness/badness of things. We should embrace this bias because it is our very nature, a nature which protects its own interests. Although I agree with the deterministic outlook of Stoicism, I do not see the wisdom in second-guessing the role our biases may play in influencing the future.
The worst example is the Stoic idea that a person who harms you is only injuring themselves -- that the harm they do to you is only a matter of your perception. I don't know how seriously they took that idea, but it seems like the archaic precursor to 'If you kill your enemies, they win.'
Stoicism does have good elements (strive for objectivity of perception, respect natural order), so I would advise cherry-picking that and leaving most of the passivity stuff behind.
Jackson Morgan
I don't get to wrapped up in logos. I think it's the fruit of their time - with the lack of empirical evidence. I consider logos to be logic, reason, empiricism lite and used as a framework to exist in reality. It's not a replacement for meaning or a guide through life, merely the tools you can use to best exist within the confines of the world.
Ethan Brooks
Stoics were not passive. Arrian and Marcus Aurelius were military commanders.
The idea of "no one can harm you, unless you perceive so" is not about being passive, but about how you view externals. If someone attacks you, you will defend yourself and you will try to win the fight. That's the virtuous way to act. But if you lose the fight, you are not harmed, since you don't consider "losing a fight" to be an evil. You will not feel bad about it.
It is a little bit hard for most modern people to understand this, since they consider the good to be pleasure (and whatever brings material goods and status) and also consider the bad to be the opposite of this.
Luke Young
I'mAnd just to be clear: if you win the fight it is not a good either. The good is on how (and why) you act and what are your judgements about it.
Isaiah Morales
To add on to that. It's the perception of action that determines the good or bad. If you take the action of inflicting harm onto another and that person who receives harm is mindful to think that what has been bestowed upon him is from the weakness of others, then in the sense they have harmed themselves for not paying their own mind to their actions. They have inflicted a greater bad or the only bad thing to themselves.
Jeremiah Gomez
/thread/
Angel Kelly
How about Epictetus tho
Luke Jones
No. Stoicism is a Very Stable philosophy and if you start there you can move into Plato easily, into Kant, and from there understand reality.
Gavin Walker
How is mindfulness cuckoldry? You seem confused.
Wyatt Smith
There are no easy lives.
Gabriel Walker
Cuckoldry is simply things people don't like, user.
Kayden Perez
YES
Lincoln White
Cuckoldry is when you passively let external things, whether they be other agents or nature itself, needlessly take advantage of you.
Liam Wood
But that's not what stoicism is
Kevin Foster
Being black is hard life.
Jonathan Bell
It’s a stupid life
Oliver Cruz
It's defeatist.
Nathan Campbell
Went from a slave to an influential person in the Roman Empire who was friends with Hadrian. He was never rich, but he had a pretty big status in Rome.
Colton Powell
How is it defeatist?
Robert Brown
."dont let Tyrones big black john-sen invading your wife's womb bother you,instead push on to e a better man,develop a society that hill support there new found family"
Isaac Ramirez
Faustina was likely not a slut.
A Stoic would likely divorce a cheating wife (considering her to be worthless due to being a slut) but without becoming overly emotional about it (since he lost nothing of value).
What would be a better way to react to it?
Gabriel Lewis
not him, but probably because it looks like you're just accepting other people pressuring you, taking advantage of you, maybe even attacking you, letting the system have it's way because "just don't react it doesn't matter lol"
Jaxson Jackson
But you will defend yourself. Likely in a better way than others, since you will have a cold head, instead of being whinny or angry about it.
Sebastian Ross
Nietzsche's criticism was correct. The Stoics made a principle out of something that can't be turned into a principle, or at any rate is a completely arbitrary one at the end of the day, because you're following your way regardless of what you do—suffering and all. The Stoics lacked the foresight to realize what value lies in suffering for life. A life free of suffering is not any more in accordance with itself than a life full of suffering; the idea that suffering is the mark of losing your way is an unscientific one.
Luke Smith
isn't that epicureanism, not stoicism?
David Gutierrez
It really applies to both.
Noah Barnes
did I just misread a whole school of philosophers
epicureanism: suffering bad, have less of it
stoicism: suffering is neither bad or good, it is natural
Jaxon Edwards
Stoicism is about reducing suffering in the world just as much as Epicureanism.
Samuel Martin
A life free of distress is better than a life with it. Epicurean ataraxia is better than suffering.
Noah Evans
I think he is not talking about physical pain. My impression is that he believes that anxiety and unhappiness are good.
Anthony Gonzalez
yes but to the emotion part the amount of action shown is often the same, war over a kings son put down by his own doing i can agree with the stoics but when the tides of war crash against my shore the blades will raise in anguish over my first born
Levi Cooper
Not true if you have great ambitions and want to achieve them.
Austin Moore
k
Justin Martinez
If "great ambitions" lead to suffering and distress while the opposite leads to ataraxia, "great ambitions" are something you have to cut out of your life
Hudson Torres
so stocisms conditioning of mechanical lifestyles
Sebastian Cox
mechanical conditioning
Jeremiah Jones
What is the stoic way of fixing my life if I'm a 27 khv impotent manlet?
Isaiah Flores
a shotgun shell to the skull with no hesitation
Anthony Hill
no, stoicism is about accepting suffering because it is inevitable and often beyond our control
David Robinson
Stoicism will not teach how to pick up girls. Stoicism will teach you on what you should value and how to live a better life.
Josiah Turner
Stoicism is only triggering to certain people because it suggests that they are mostly to blame for how shit their life is
Leo Clark
Exactly, I don't want to pick up girls, I just would like to have the possibility to experience love and maybe have a family one day.
Kevin Baker
what you're looking for is female romance literature lemao
Jaxon Howard
Why do you want a family?
Eli Gray
Read the books. At least they will help you cure your anxiety that is likely what makes you "bad" with dealing with women
Nicholas Roberts
Stoicism is basically a philosophy for pseud normies popularized by pseud coach businessmens who wanted to have a intellectual background to sell some bullshit about life.
Gavin Russell
at the baseline stoicism allows you to realize that the suffering you incur is just another aspect of being human, and you shouldnt apply undue value to it.
Leo Rogers
My anxiety is derived from my post phimosis hypersensitive penis and my short stature, and the consequential detachment from the woman. The deep disquiet that this has brought to me made me unable to enjoy life and being happy.
I don't unvalue my suffering, it made me a better person and with higher goals, but I don't want it it characterize my entire life.
Nathan Morales
Seems like mental gymnastics to me. I appreciate the advantages of perceptual re-framing, but I think injecting delusions about the benevolence of the universe or the priority of perception over result is going too far.