The Odyssey tr. by Emily Wilson

>has translated this bit
Except it’s not a translation, it’s a fucking editorialization

Education Reform needs to happen with the renaming of liberal arts “doctorates” and the criminalization of people like this impersonating a “doctor”

>Mr. Foreigner

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Foreigner-Sama

Holy shit, not only did she add her politics in, the fucking thing reads like it was written by a caveman.
is right. This is embarrassing

You thought she was bad? Wait until you see this lmao

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I wish God would smite these people down

i believe Yea Forums is infested by bots made by evil peopl
Someone makes a thread asking question that no one can answer (not many people read such a books, and question is about certain, modern translation, which even fewer people read)
Than someone turns thread into politics and culture
Someone acts oblivous, and asks some question that further pushes thread into political regions.
And rest of thread is about culture wars, and not about book in question. People are giving opinion about books they dont read
Its like you dont care about literature at all, you just want to brew shit

Giggled Harder than I thought I would. Is this really not a elaborate troll?

I really don't like Anglo-American egalitarianism. It's so cringey.

>someone turns Thread into politics and culture
No you retard, the translator injected her political views into The Odyssey.
Go dilate

It's on Amazon as St. Theresa's "Interior Castle".

>But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all of missing the mark.

Only good post ITT. Anyone interested in literature should be interested in how classical reception works and what has and continues to motivate translation. Picking out passages you disagree with politically to disparage a text like this is as brainless as throwing away Chapman's Homer for "injecting politics" into his edition. All translation is a political act of prioritisation and reinvention; you would expect "literate" people to understand something so simple. For those interested in thoughtful criticism of Wilson's work, check out Jstor and Bryn Mawr reviews thereof, but it would be a much better use of your time to just read the texts at hand. The Odyssey is not long and any serious student who isn't learning Greek should at least be reading and comparing different English translations.
/pollit/ posters are intellectually dishonest children

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Why can't you illiterate fucks just learn Ancient Greek? I bet you read Latin in translation as well.

Dilate

But the discussion is, for the most part, against injecting politics in classical works.

Someone post THAT review

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I'M COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMING!!!

Literally everything ITT besides your faggot reply is about literature.

kirkcenter.org/reviews/a-coat-of-varnish/

Her translation is dogshit even without the SJW nonsense. He literally uses cringe slang from the American South like "scalawag". Total dogshit for niggers and zoomers..

>Wilson:

Tell me about a complicated man.
Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost
when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy,
and where he went, and who he met, the pain
he suffered in the storms at sea, and how
he worked to save his life and bring his men
back home. He failed to keep them safe; poor fools,
they ate the Sun God’s cattle, and the god
kept them from home.

>Fitzgerald:

Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story
of that man skilled in all ways of contending,
the wanderer, harried for years on end,
after he plundered the stronghold
on the proud height of Troy.
He saw the townlands
and learned the minds of many distant men,
and weathered many bitter nights and days
in his deep heart at sea, while he fought only
to save his life, to bring his shipmates home.

But not by will nor valor could he save them,
for their own recklessness destroyed them all—
children and fools, they killed and feasted on
the cattle of Lord Hêlios, the sun,
and he who moves all day through heaven
took from their eyes the dawn of their return.

Besides the part about “even though they cross the sea themselves”, what politics are injected into it? That doesn’t seem particularly political, just a stupid detail she added in to make them seem hypocritical.

wilson's version is niggerised and dumbed down for brainlets. literally unreadable.

If you do not want to learn Greek, at least read it in the German translation.

Eh, I'd rather learn Greek.

And why so, Günter ? There’s only one german translation... ?

>Americans think this is a good translation and amazing poetry

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That first one is literally 3rd grade level English.
Sex robots And artificial wombs to replace women when?

Many German translations have become classics in their own right, for example Johann Heinrich Voß' version, as well as Gustav Schwab's. I've always found English translations of Greek texts lacking. Could be personal bias though, obviously.

It’s pretty obviously muh racist Brexit DRUMPF reference

What translator is this? Is this a translation of The Interior Castle or what?

Granting that Chapman's translation is political, this does not excuse Wilson doing the same thing - we should strive to keep our contemporary political crises out of art in general, and translations especially. Maybe it is not possible, but a good effort goes a long way

>complicated man.
>man skilled in all ways of contending,
Twisted man is probably more faithful to the original than either of these

"twisted" in what way?

Had to read this shit for class
This translation and my professor both insist that Odysseus is evil and represents toxic masculinity and the patriarchy and that the real hero is Penelope

Odysseus is the hero, but Penelope is the ideal woman. Too bad SJW women won't follow her example, aiming instead of degeneracy and promiscuity. They're just cherrypicking nonsense bacause of her sex.

Many folds

Fagles translates it as "man of twists and turns", is that also close?

>Tell me about a complicated man.
>"complex" comes from latin for "together" + "weave or fold"

You could make the argument that Wilson's line is better than "man of twists and turns" or other such versions. It expresses the same idea in one word, which is really quite elegant if you pay attention to the etymology.

“No”

except she's not going for the root word definition but rather the first definition of complicated. her translation (if we can call it that) is one-dimensional and simple.

you've read no translation of the odyssey and never attended classes on it at all.

But the result is nonsense, Ulysses is a very simple man

>The state of Anglo countries.
HAHAHAHAHA. Fuck me. You guys are letting this happen without saying anything?

This is beyond anything Orwell thought possible. This should be a crime and punished by torture.
Why are you motherfuckers even ACCEPTING all of this crap?

>let me remove all traces of Christianity from a Catholic poem
This is literally cultural genocide.

Translator is a Jewess.

How's this bad?

You're kidding, right? It's literally a Catholic poem. It's like if you were to translate a Muslim poem and translated Allah as "Santa Claus."

When did you lads realize that the wrong side won World War 2?

jfc...

kek

It's pretty obvious that it's still dealing with god, now it's more open to people that don't believe in your god. How's that not a bad thing?

It’s a catholic poem written by a saint you utter fucking faggot

It perverts the poet's intentions. It was inspired by the Christiand God and it should remain that way. Might as well not translate it at all if you're doing your own nonsense.

>people here are not too keen on strangers coming from abroad
...but native britons are a minority in london

Her intentions doesn't matter. Death of the author applys here

Her? We're talking about poet John of the Cross here, faggot. And "death of the author" is about the interpretation of a text, not about perverting its content.

>Death of the author applys here
Have you ever read Barthes my dude ?

No one still hasn't explained what the translator did wrong. You still can read the original work and other translations. Stop getting your panties in a twist
No, i'll admit i haven't. But his concept does apply
His intention IS the content.

>His intention IS the content.
That's where you're wrong, kid. His intentions might be irrelevant but what's printed in the page is PARAMOUNT. It's a very dishonest tactic to pervert a saint's poem only so it could be more generic in scope. Removing the obviously Christian connotations is missing the point of the poem. If you don't agree with a text, don't translate it. Simple as that.

>No one still hasn't explained what the translator did wrong.
Everything she mentioned there is stylistically and thematically wrong.

>the convention of Spanish mysticism to refer to the soul in the feminine
>el alma
>el
?

I'm still not sure what point the translator was trying to make, but alma is indeed a feminine noun. They use 'el' there purely for phonetic reasons (they don't like having two vowels in a row e.g. la alma).

"alma" is feminine. it's "toda mi alma" (all my soul), not "todo mi alma". "el" is used here so "la alma" doesn't become "lalma" when usually said rapidly in normal conversation.

So, phonetic concerns take precedence over the gender of the noun? I'm not sure how I missed that in three years of high school Spanish.

>Genius, said Goethe, reveals itself under conditions of constraint
pretty sure goethe never said that

I believe it's only a group of words that are considered in this exception, (el alma, el agua, el águila and some others).

that's why I always say for you people to have the originals saved and the good translations as well, these people will get ride of everyone of them, this is the age of mediocrity, they destroy the things of the past or subvert them because they know they can never compete with it

>trying this hard to be cool

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Not all politics are equal, and she wrote her book deliberately politically so it must be discussed in that context.

It's not pol to be upset that someone has injected poisonous political opinion into one of humanity's greatest classics.

People like you welcomed the cultural revolution. Just stop posting here, we don't want you.

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Please leave

> It's not pol to be upset that someone has injected poisonous political opinion into one of humanity's greatest classics
Well said Mein neger

Wilson blames Odysessius for the death of his men while the original text says no on could save them.

She literally changes the perspective of the poem in the first paragraph.

Isn’t the whole point that he was helpless against the will of the gods?

>implying the odyssey isn't about odysseus suffering the exact effects war has on women, that he has personally been responsible for in the past
>kept and used for pleasure by a more powerful individual, far from home, weeping and wondering if he will ever see his home or family again
>thrown about by the whims of more powerful beings who saw it fit to use him
I don't know why people feel the need to inject modern politics IN to the odyssey, its already about a rape victim trying to return home to their family.

We were taught the Richard Lattimore translation at my college.

>no on could save them.
Not only that, but that they themselves (their own recklessness) were responsible for their demise.

Sure, Wilson as a translator is entitled to translate as she sees fit, and she evens lays out her "scopos" in her introduction (how and why she has translated the way she does). In that respect, her translation is "successful", since it follows her scopos. But other than that, I would consider it a very bland, faulty, and misleading translation of the Homeric poem. One of the things that makes Homer, and Ancient literature in general, so fascinating is that they are so strange to us and yet to similar. That modern neutoric drive to make everything "contemporary" to us is completely idiotic. It is even revisionist. This isn't some kind of feminist conspiracy either. Caroline Alexander produced perhaps the best translation of the Iliad into English while being a feminist. The difference between Alexander and Wilson is that Alexander understands that a translation should show the idiosincracies of the text and of the culture that produced it, while Wilson pretends to patronize and accuse said idiosincracies while presenting her own watered-down, harmless version of that culture and text. Only someone who really hates their work could do something like that.

I am a simple man I see a woman author or a translator I don't read.

I liked it. These troll threads are hilarious because all you pseuds come up with clever ways to belittle any writing you don’t like, regurgitating the same talking points to trolls who nail you with a simple image of something you dislike.

Meanwhile, this woman you loathe is translating the classics and making a living at it.

Her translation is still shit.

kirkcenter.org/reviews/a-coat-of-varnish/

Just read this it's basically all you need to know.

Just following this simple guideline saves you so much trouble.

TO BASED OR NOT TO BASED

ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν:
πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα kαὶ νόον ἔγνω,
πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν kατὰ θυμόν,
5ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν kαὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.
ἀλλ᾽ οὐδ᾽ ὣς ἑτάρους ἐρρύσατο, ἱέμενός περ:
αὐτῶν γὰρ σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν ὄλοντο,
νήπιοι, οἳ kατὰ βοῦς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο
ἤσθιον: αὐτὰρ ὁ τοῖσιν ἀφείλετο νόστιμον ἦμαρ.
10τῶν ἁμόθεν γε, θεά, θύγατερ Διός, εἰπὲ kαὶ ἡμῖν.

can anyone post some text of wilson's odyssey so i can check it against the greek?

I've studied the Odyssey twice in my three years at college. The first with an older professor in a survey of early world lit - we used Fitzgerald. Just last semester I took a class on 20th and 21st century U.S. lit... with a focus on greek mythology in that period. So we read this. It's obviously more juvenile, and seemed to me missing whole swaths of text? I can't confirm this. Wilson's text just felt more lacking than Fitzgerald.

>Wilson translates “polytropon” as “complicated”
>literally poly-tropon, “many ways”
Why can no one but Lattimore do this properly?

this is the worst translation and not just because she's a woman, other translations by women are alright.

Why would someone learn Greek when Latin is lot more beautiful and all you need?

reading this feels like reading some bad literature aimed at children

>Tell me the story of a complicated man

>All translation is a political act

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hugh g evelyn-white translates the word as many shifts in homeric hymn to hermes

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Why are women so fucking awful

>lucy ellman recently being shilled
>"I'M A WOMAN, AS A WOMAN NOBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION TO MY BOOK JUST BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN BUT AS A PROUD WOMAN I WROTE THIS BOOK AS A WOMAN"
>it's derivative mediocrity
>emily wilson shilled up and down across the entire press
>"I'M A WOMAN AS A WOMAN WOMAN TRANSLATOR, WOMAN WOMAN WOMAN"
>it's a third-rate bizarre translation that wouldn't have received a single review if it had just been some guy publishing it
>any time a woman is a famous intellectual, 95% chance it's because of some relation she has to a man (starfucker, socialite, torrid love affair, erstwhile "abuse" victim)
>any time a woman stops being famous she desperately begs for attention 5-20 years later by going "H-hey everyone remember me, well back in the day when I was famous for being a middling poet who had sex with an actually famous poet, he peed on my tits and I didn't like that so interview me a dozen times and read my memoir"

Like do they even have shame over the fact that everything is an extension of their gender, everything is related to their gender, everything is purchased by trading in their gender for a free "leg up" or a free foot in the door?

translators have been using vernacular slang to translate the odyssey since forever. fagles, lattimore, and many other contemporary translations use bitch and whore when translating words that have been translated before as dog-eyed or hounded, the etymology of which is closer to what the greeks likely meant. wilson has other issues with her translation, but slang is not one of them.

homeric hymn to hermes is an excellent example because it immediately goes on to give a series of deeds that makes him so......... she bare a son, of many shifts, blandly cunning, a robber, a cattle driver, a bringer of dreams, a watcher by night, a thief at the gates, one who was soon to show forth wonderful deeds among the deathless gods.

"bitch" literally means "female dog". it's not slang. and in any case her use of "scalawag" is simply cringe and out of place.

forest gump is polutropon,a cripple,a football star,soldier,wanderer, shrimp boat captain,long distance runner,ang father...he is not cunning or ''complicated'' but he is most definitely polutropon

what a dumbed down and cringe translation lmao she gives a bad rap to female translators, many of which I'm sure are good

>dog-eyed or hounded,this painting captures the expression,

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I want Zeus to smite her

He also played ping pong

why athena looks like the virgin mary?

"Whore" and "bitch" are not slang, both have deep pre-medieval roots

hangdog shamefacedness butler calls it,most literal is sideways glancing bitchface

"Whore" is a very old word, I'm sure it appears in the KJV and perhaps even in Shakespeare.

πόρνη • (pórnē) f (genitive πόρνης); first declension

female prostitute...its where the word porn comes from

based lattimore

is it weird that i've always wanted to be dominated by athena

i mean she basically occupies a similar role in the greek pantheon.

Not the best juxtaposition of posts tbqh

>and he who moves all day through heaven
>took from their eyes the dawn of their return.
That last line is one of my favorite lines. Fitzgerald's Odyssey is astounding as a whole.

Well, they were both written by Americans.

>le rational centrist that somehow sides with the liberals politics for some reason

>Well, they were both written by Americans.
The shitty one is the most recent and currently praised by burgers, though.

It's shit like this that blows my mind how people can still think Hitler did anything wrong.

Here is the same passage translated by Robert Fitzgerald

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I just wanted everyone to know I have a big penis but this message will be lost before the thread 404s

>Mr Foreigner
this is a joke, right?

Damn, Lennon was right. Women truly are the n word of the world. AI wombs when?

no it's not user, i wanted athena to step on me since i read the iliad.
we are not weird at all, there are many men who secretly think that way.

>But his concept does apply
That's not his concept

>Mr. Foreigner
Wat

Anyway, I guess this thread is just about this meme translation. But I just want to say that I fucking love the Odyssey. It got me into reading when I was 15 and recently I've re-read it and it has lost nothing of its quality. It is delightful down to earth yet epic.

Somebody should post this to the catholic thread.

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>and seemed to me missing whole swaths of text?
It's certainly shorter.

it's dumbed down to 2-grade level English. Literally for retards. "Mr Foreigner". Give me a fucking break.

This never happened

Probably because Wilson uses iambic pentameter instead of hexameters, so she compresses a lot of information and the text itself looks shorter, although it has the exact same number of lines as the Greek text.

πόρνη is not used once in the odyssey. but for example, fagles and others have translated kυνώπιδος (4.148) as "shameless whore" when it's otherwise been "dog-eyed". helen uses it to describe herself for having been kidnapped or ran away with paris. it's a poetic choice to ascribe dog-eyed with shameless whore.

all this studying yet you dont realize that it's almost the exact line count that the greek has. many parts of wilson's text are also more true to the greek than a poet like fitzgerald is, to its benefit or not. im not defending wilson to the grave, but i don't think everything she does is inexcusable.

nice try, Emily, but we know your version is shit.

>all this studying yet you dont realize that it's almost the exact line count that the greek has
Exact same line count with a considerably shorter poetic meter. Dactylic hexameter generally has six feet consisting of three syllables, and Wilson's iambic pentameter has five feet consisting of two syllables. She's essentially torn off a third of the page, like Victor Borge when he ran out of piano. How could anyone take a translation that exorcises Homeros' epithets seriously?

in iliad achilles calls agamemnon kυνῶπα

you shameless cur, as translated by A. S. Kline

i use the odyssey as a means to learn ancient greek, and wilson's version has helped me a lot in that sense. she is neither a good poet nor correct at all times in her translations, but she has made a good tool for learning greek.
beyond that, her commitment to the greek rightfully turns odysseus into a somewhat morally questionable character, where instead of hanging servant whores who aligned with the suitors and betrayed odysseus, he hangs slaves whom had no choice but to please their guests via xenia and so on.
i know fitzgerald also called them slaves at one point, but by the end he throws it to the side and calls them maids instead.
anyways, i think she's worth taking seriously in some areas, and in others not so much. idk man, i think some of you get too worked up about some of this stuff, but i guess that's what makes you guys cute to me

I already read the issues I'm not reading that shit again. Who the fuck reads multiple translation of the same story?

I read the Lawrence prose translation desu

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me

you actually read this meme translation?

Isn't Lattimore's translation line for line as well?

Yep, and Verity's translation is line for line as well. That feature is not particularly special.

ye
i didnt mean to say it was

shameless is the best word there no? dog-eyed/shameless are fairly synonymous. cur is more of a liberty.

I think I always knew deep down.

Women literally cannot feel shame. Social embarrassment is the closet emotion they understand.