If God is perfect why am I bad, that implies that I am imperfect, and if I am God’s creation and imperfect...

God has created us as imperfect distortions of himself. Images are images, not the real thing. A drawn cow and a cow are certainly not the same thing, the cow is much more complex than the drawn cow. That is not a perfect analogy, but I believe you can see my point.

Competition and striving towards perfection are the meanings of this life, for what purpose I am not sure, but as I said above, just because they are our meanings does not mean they are God’s meanings. We are like God in that we mirror him superficially (hence we are images of him), but inside we are not like him at all. God is perfect to us as the cow is the perfection of the drawn cow.

Suffering is necessary to give meaning to joy. We would not know what joy is without suffering, and vice versa. If joy was a given, it would seem more mundane, and ironically less joyful as it is given and expected, since joy arrives from happiness which is not expected.

Our flaws, the things that make us imperfect, are features, not defects. What I mean by that is that they are there by design and add meaning, and if they were missing, it would take away from the thing that is the World. If we were perfect, than the World would become imperfect, and vice versa.

Theological source? God is perfectly capable of evil, but doesn't act on it. (Funny you use the term evil while bashing Christianity, isn't that a subjective term for your ilk?)

>God has created us
prove it
>Competition and striving towards perfection are the meanings of this life
prove it
>Suffering is necessary to give meaning to joy
prove it
>We would not know what joy is without suffering, and vice versa
prove it

All I see are your personal opinions.

>someone says something about "God"
>REEEEE THEY'RE BASHING ON CHRISTIANITY
Get your head out of your ass, Christianity isn't even the most popular religion (Islam is).

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A beautiful red sunset eternally would be hell on Earth...

It was relevant to my point retard, you use a term like evil, which requires absolute Truth, a concept I was suggesting you didn't believe in. I see you didn't address my points, shouldn't be difficult against a retarded Christcuck like myself

We were arguing under the assumption God has created us, we were arguing over whether a perfect God is contradictory.

>The meaning of life is competition and striving for perfection.
This is empirically true, whenever you get better at something you are rewarded. It could be a reward of resources, an egotistical reward, or a reward of power, but a reward nonetheless. If this World was created by God, than that was his obvious intended meaning, as nothing else has such a built-in reward system as coming closer to perfection.

>Suffering is necessary to give meaning to joy
Light gives meaning to darkness and vice versa. If there was no darkness, would we understand was lightness was? And even if we did, we would take it for granted, darkness gives it meaning as well for making us not take it for granted. This is the same with suffering and jubilance.

Okay it's obvious you are incapable of critical thought and have a low IQ nice talking to you bye.

Cringe, but nice bait. See you in this shithole another time

>NOOOOOOOOOO HOW DARE YOU NOT BELIEVE IN MY ENTITY OF EXISTENTIAL COPE THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER AND IS SUPPORTED BY LITERALLY ZERO EVIDENCE THIS CAN ONLY MEAN THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU I CAN'T POSSIBLY NE WRONG IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM IT MUST BE BECAUSE OF POSTMODERNISM JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE I DON'T LIKE

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It's late in here so I keep it brief.
>God has created us as imperfect distortions of himself
This is precisely my point. If he were in fact perfect, he would have created us as perfect as he is and by doing so he would have prevented so much pain and suffering. You are just repeating your previous points and averting mine.

Translation: I've been btfo

Not even him btw

Your imagination is lacking. Why are you ascribing human characteristics (self bettering, meaning of joy through suffering, mental states) to God’s plan? Are you so arrogant as to presume we can see God’s body just through extending our sense perceptions into microscopes and telescopes? There is a limit to our consciousness and a perfect Being can’t be proved to have any causal power by any of it. The dynamics of light and dark do not agree with a perfect Being, the dissonance you are showing for it is clear in how much you try to passionately elaborate your anthropocentrism onto the thing in itself

This argument relies on perfection only being able to create further perfection, or are you saying God is capable of creating imperfect beings but wouldn't as it causes suffering, that last part is confusing

JP has access to Yea Forums in rehab?

>Why are you ascribing human characteristics for God's plan for human beings

The latter. If he is perfect then he could create imperfect beings, but perfection also implies that he wouldn't since it causes unnecessary suffering.

Suffering isn't unnecessary though, as the user above said, without a negative reference point there is no positive. Does a perfect father never punish his son, never made him endure hardships and meaningful suffering?

Why is God incapable of making a perfect son without using suffering as a tool?

I addressed it before. If he had created us as perfect as he himself is, then we wouldn't have been to him as what a son is to a father, but as what two equals are to each other. If he had done this, then there would have been no positive and no negative in the sense that we imperfect humans experience it, but we would have experienced these as what God himself regards them. But he chose us to create us as inferiors and by doing so let us harm each other and ourselves, or to suffer to become better when we could have been perfect if he had chosen. But he hadn't and we suffer. I wonder why?

Why must a perfect being create equals rather than inferiors to remain perfect? You're argument is essentially God makes us suffer so he's not perfect, but you haven't explained why making humans suffer renders a God imperfect, because it doesn't.

He isn't incapable of making a perfect son without suffering, bit that's not what's being discussed here

It is immoral to make inferiors when you know they will suffer. Perfection includes moral perfection. Is God not moral?

If people were perfect, they would've been mere conductors of God's will and wouldn't be free. Freedom equates imperfection, separation from God, for you are free to strive towards God and free to strive away from Him, even if it would bring you eternal damnation.

There's no point in making a perfect son through the process of suffering. In fact it just means he created unnecessary suffering. Why was it morally necessary for God to create us, for one, then decide to create us in such a way that we suffer unnecessarily?

Let me make my argument more precise. It is immoral to make inferiors when you know they will suffer needlessly since you have the alternative of creating equals

Why do you think your suffering is needless?

Because we could have been perfect if God had chosen so. But God chose us to be imperfect and therefore suffer.

You can't just state suffering is immoral without explaining your reasoning, especially since I'm arguing suffering is moral. And polytheism arguments aside, God is the alpha and omega, he is both suffering and happiness, so creating a equal would still cause suffering.

If you are perfect, then you're perfectly conducting God's will and therefore don't have a will of your own. To have your own will means to suffer, Buddhism is pretty on point here. But what Buddhism gets wrong is, you're supposed not to reject worldly sufferings but to understand them as a manifestation of His love, as the greatest gift He has ever given to anyone, that of freedom. You probably can't do that, and that is because you lack love of your own, you choose to be angry at God instead of loving Him, and your atheism is the ultimate manifestation of rejecting to love Him. In this way you yourself, on your own free will, doom yourself to a miserable existence you lead -- and all by rejecting God.

I am not stating suffering in it self is immoral, but making someone suffer when you have the alternative of having them not to suffer is immoral. Or do you think it is morally just to make others suffer needlessly?
>God is the alpha and omega, he is both suffering and happiness
Does this mean perfection entails having imperfection? In other words, are you stating lacking imperfection is still a lack of something, and lack of something means imperfection. If this is your point, I hope you see the circular reasoning.

If God is perfect, then having his will as my own means that I would have a perfect will. What is wrong with that?
>you choose to be angry at God instead of loving Him, and your atheism is the ultimate manifestation of rejecting to love Him.
I would have preferred we stayed on point instead of debating my motives, but since you asked, I'm not even an Atheist! I just see the idea of a perfect God contradictory for the reasons I mentioned.

>If God is perfect, then having his will as my own means that I would have a perfect will.
It means there's no "you" at all. More broadly speaking, you're conducting God's will anyway, since everything is happens according to His will, but your capability to question your own motives, and capability of reflection, means precisely that you now become unsure of how well your will coincides with God's. An animal, for all its suffering, never goes questioning whether what happens to it is "correct", because it lacks the mental capability to do so -- in this way its will is in perfect agreement with God's. If you find your existence more desirable than that of an animal, then you should agree to have imperfect will, too. It's not even important, because the very first thing your love to God, if you have any, commands you to do is to accept precisely the lot God has given you as a gift, without any greed, anger and small-mindedness.
>I just see the idea of a perfect God contradictory for the reasons I mentioned.
If the idea of a perfect God seems contradictory to you, then for you perfection exists separately from God, and then the God you imagine is not a God theology usually speaks of, but some another construction, maybe a Demiurge of sorts. And if you think that perfection exists within God but for some reason he's withholding it to you specifically, then you're angry at God since you, in your pride, consider your understanding of what's good and what's bad to be better than His. Then, see above.

>I am not stating suffering in it self is immoral, but making someone suffer when you have the alternative of having them not to suffer is immoral.
Not necessarily, if my son transgresses, I don't have to make him suffer, but not punishing him isn't moral
>Or do you think it is morally just to make others suffer needlessly?
Obviously not, but I am arguing I favour of a perfect being, contexta should have told toy I wasn't taking about senseless suffering

And to address you last point, God doesn't lack imperfection, man is imperfect, and we are part of Him.

This is so autistic and cringe and I can tell you don’t even know much about Christian religion. God created Adam and Eve, and he would take walks and talk to his creations. His creations who were “perfect” did exactly what he told them not to do, eat in the garden of eden. God found out about his “perfect creations” doing something that he told them not to do (and people say god is all knowing when he can’t even keep and eye on two people?) then he gets pissed off and punishes them to eternal suffering. You’re argument and most people here are so ignorant that the 50 pages the bible I read make me the most knowledgeable here somehow. I’m not arguing that being flawed is imperfect, I think that there’s a lot to learn to make you a better person by having flaws. But by using the logic from the bible it is obvious that we weren’t created perfect and god admits that by punishing us