Why did you faggots not tell me about this

Well, why don't you suggest a better book then?

wow this is a real meetings of the MIND. I'm glad I got to witness such high level dialogue between two literary titans such as you gentlemen.

Not-Knowing by Donald Barthelme.

You have bad taste user. I think time has proven that.

>makes one comment
>user gets this mad
sorry to shit on your parade but i dont owe you any depth beyond what i choose to present. thats okay though because obviously youd rather have someone like Gardner hold your hand through the smoke and mirrors rather than think for your fucking self, which is all I’m encouraging by offering you a contrary opinion. Go fuck yourself user. You’re a needy brat.

Outside observer here, I just want both of you to know that I cracked up reading both of these in succession. Thank you for brightening my day a little bit, you are two wonderful people.

Oh I'm sure it's so deep and complicated us simpletons would never understand it! thanks for coming down from your great tower of complex literary criticism to explain things to a peasant like me! I'm sure you have a million better things to do with your time, a genius like you is probably writing the next moby fucking dick.

Whats that? you're a pseud who spends all his time posturing on an anime website? thats what I thought now STFU bitch.

>all this projection
stay mad user

don't make me rhetorically pull down your pants and spank you in front of the whole of Yea Forums

I think I already did that user.
>the whole of Yea Forums
all 9 of us

All you've done is drop you pants and show me your ass. The giant slumbers still and god help you if you provoke him.

I'm gonna hold you down while the user you're talking to wrecks your shit retard, I'm annoyed with you specifically

Both of you are autistic, I want you to know that.

i'm coming over

You're american aren't you?

Obsessed

To each his own I guess. I like Gardner's approach to fiction: the fictive dream, the process of plotting, the method of systematic improvement. I will admit he has a high-handed narrative voice, but I think that's because he's so exacting of himself.

As for whether his work produces "bland and uninspired fiction" (what does that even mean really?) I think that's dependent on the author's skill and dedication. There's really nothing he prescribes nor anything he says about craft that is particularly controversial, it's all boilerplate stuff but the value of it is seeing it put into action in front of you. I can't think of any other book that does that, that couples theory with practice so well (does Barthelme's book?).

Anyway, if you found better books please do share them, and more power to you if they helped improve your writing. I certainly think Gardner's improved mine.

>O-o-obsessed!
The stale rebuttal rings out as hollow as the self confidence of it's author and I, smiling serenely and sipping a warm glass of malbec, know that I hit the nail on the head. From the way you type I would further postulate you were raised by a single mother or perhaps lesbians?

Ive read all of Gardner’s writing about fiction, he’s great. I recommend E.M. Forster’s Aspects of the Novel next

David Lodge's book of the same title is also damn great.

Also if you can get your hands on the Paris Review interviews (if you have a subscription you can also just read all of them on their website) are also great.

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OP here, Bumping for some non meme responses

fuck you whybatr you impersonating me I just woke up to see two retards fighting over books in my thread

If this is as good as then I'll definitely check it out. Read AODW based on a recc from here, and it was well worth it.

it was me who rec'd you that

Thanks, bud. Helped me out a lot. I usually hate books about writing.

>what the fuck Yea Forums I thought you were autodidactic geniuses
HAH! I got a good laugh out of this one, thanks user.

This is the best one I've read and I'm a published author.

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Why hasn't Yea Forums made a chart on the topic of Writing yet? I've seen hundreds of charts and not a single one on the topic of writing.
Based. Yea Forums pseuds think way too highly of themselves.
Based for actually talking about the content inside of a book(which most of Yea Forums is incapable of doing).

gardner is a hack, you know that right? i recommend the playwrights guidebook instead or, yknow, just reading books you like and writing a bunch.

Really, how do you guys think so highly of yourselves and feel satisfied in using a one-word insult to refute an entire book? At least three people have criticized this book so far and not one of them have left a clear reason for disliking the book. I see this all the time on Yea Forums, it isn't just this thread.
How do you all call yourselves intellectuals while feeling complacent with your single-word insults?

I didn’t say I was an intellectual, nor did I lay claim to any vantage point higher than your own. And it’s an imageboard at like nine o clock at night. Dont get so buttblasted dude. If you want my reason, I found Gardner’s prose in Grendel to be tedious and the novel itself a one-trick pony, which is odd for someone who talks such high game as he does. As for the book in question I found a lot of what he was saying to be common sense for anyone who’s taken a creative writing class or two and/or has seriously considered craft for a while (I picked up a lot of his general principles from just reading Paris Review interviews over the years). I didnt find anything novel or really inspirational and, at best, I think it can be used like an updated Forester or something where you refer every now and then to gauge whether you’de inline with some basic good practices. But for more contemporary stuff we have the James Woods book and Making Shapely Fictikn, which is practically trade-standard at this point. I have other reasons, but it’s easier and more expressive for me to just say “yeah fuck this guy.” You’re the one baiting for opinions, after all.

>I didn’t say I was an intellectual
The average Yea Forums user thinks highly of themselves yet is only capable of using one-word insults and memes as arguments. When you act in the same way as them, using one-word insults to refute entire books and ideologies, I have no reason to believe that you are any different.
>Dont get so buttblasted dude
I was asking you to clarify on your vague claims.
>I found a lot of what he was saying to be common sense for anyone who’s taken a creative writing class or two and/or has seriously considered craft for a while
The cover does specify that the book is for "young writers." Of course young is subjectively defined. If you read the first few chapters and skimmed through the rest of the chapters that should be your cue that the book wasn't written for you. This doesn't mean that the book is bad.
>You’re the one baiting for opinions, after all.
I'm not OP and I haven't yet read the book, I just hate when anons on here think highly of themselves yet are totally useless when it comes to conjuring a reasonable criticism. I will take your words into account when I read this book.

there are a few screenplay books that are useful to me but I don't know if theyll be useful to others

also on the topic of writing too much reading and too little writing will result in nothing

>not a single one on the topic of writing.
You just didn't see it.

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This desu. There's also a case to be made for too many cooks spoil the broth. There's a million different theories and methods, but it's better just to stick with one you like and then learn by actually doing.

So you use a thread about a book you’ve never read to grandstand about the state of “the average /lit user?” Jesus Christ you’re such a hypocrite it’s pathetic.

Here you are with your baseless one-word insults again. I am not at all a hypocrite. I make arguments and never use the one-word insults that I criticize others for. Get back to the topic of the thread. I will no longer respond to you.

Get a load of this guy.
Hey, pro tip, if you're this inept at responding, how about at least coming up with one other tactic than crying about “no arguments muh not on topic” like a little bitch.
And go shove it up your ass, faggot. You clearly have nothing to contribute to the conversation you so desperately want to moderate, as you haven’t read the fucking book you so arrogantly decided to post about anyways. You’re part of the problem dude. Jumping to “I will no longer respond to you” won’t save you from your reckoning with your own mediocrity.

>hurr durr u haven't read the book, therefore you aren't allowed to ask other people to clarify on their vague opinions
What exactly are you arguing here?

>argue
>argue
>argue
The absolute state of self-unaware bugmen.