What books with convince me to be religious? Any philosophers too?
>buy Peterson's Christianity archetype argument
>see how influential Christianity is and agree with quite a few of it's points
>cosmology makes me want to believe in a higher power
But yet I still can't convince myself. I feel like I'm just trying to believe so I can make my life easier (being able to raise Christian children, marry Christian wife, etc).
forget all that bullshit and read Kierkegaard
Get a lobotomy. Then drink alcohol every day until your liver starts to fail. After this take SSRIs. Now you're ready. Go to Church and listen to the sermon, you will believe everything.
will*
What gets me about Christianity is how much I agree with it. My morals seem pretty related to Christianity but I'm not sure if this is mostly just from being raised in the west.
This did it for me
don't join a cult dude, there's no need. just try and live the good life and do good by those around you
With Plato you cannot save everybody
>What books with convince me to be religious? Any philosophers too?
Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Aquinas.
Understand the notion of the one, henosis, and personal responsibility.
so stupid you fag. someone has to define "good"
It's Jung's argument (not that effeminate egotistical Jew)you uncultured swine. But really there are so many things that shall convince you to faith. A history of Western philosophy, theology, art, etc. The Bible itself. Personal religious experiences.
It is after all an intuitive thing (read Jung to understand). There is plenty of rational objectivity in relation to God and Religion (particularly Christianity), the next third of belief is the necessity of belief, and the final of the tripartite reasoning is your own individual experience of spirit.
amazon.com
Don't get cucked by those cringe retards, take the orthodox pill user. Unironically read this, It's short. Find it in pdf
Read the bible, specifically the gospels.
>There is plenty of rational objectivity in relation to God and Religion (particularly Christianity)
blatant lies. do yourself the service of being honest and just say belief is founded on faith
OP already has a definition of "good" because he stated his reason for trying to believe is to "make my life easier". He is appealing to the utility of religion in service of a good independent of that religion. He should just dispense with the religion part and focus on pure good
It can be, but not necessarily. I just want to say that you'r pretty dumb user.
Practice religion. No amount of reading will convince you, but prayer and meditation will.
Seriously just pray the rosary every day for a month.
if you've bought into a cult, and furthermore think that there is objective proof for the metaphysical claims of that cult, you are a certified loon
only if you have a tiny little bird brain, the rest of us can think for ourselves
>he hasn't read Jung
I feel sorry for you user. You only put words in my mouth in your brainlet cope. I never said one religion was the only truth, entirely true or literally true. You seem to think that the belief in a God in general is a cult? I could understand you stating Christianity as such (you'r still a fucking idiot for thinking so) but the belief in God in general, of course not.
Do you? Christianity postulates that the knowledge of good and evil is hardwired into mankind.
Read Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustin
just pick up some apologetics.
store.ancientfaith.com
you can find them online quit easy just posting for reference
Book of John and finish the rest of the NT. Make sure to read KJV though.
Damaging the prefrontal cortex reduces religious beliefs, brainlet.
Read about different religions. I was an atheist my whole life, until when at 16 I started to get into Buddhism.
I compared Buddhism to Christianity; compared those to Taoism, and then to the Hare Krishna movement. Noticed there was something uniting both of them at their end goal. It seemed clear.
Fell into some traps along the way. Fell for the pessimist gnostic pill, but I think that's part of it.
Are there any books that make a compelling argument for the Christian faith besides “death is scary bro just believe in god”?
Well it's either that or linguistic sophistry, so pick your poison
Read the New Testament, and let go of any literal translation. Think about how Jesus is telling you to be, and how to hold yourself, and how to think about things--not what he means, in any literal or philosophical sense. Above all else, he led by example.
Try reading Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton. You can get it at Gutenberg.org, it is in the public domain. Honestly, GKC is the writer who came closest to converting me to Christianity. I finally went Buddhist when I found the Based, non-feminised original version of it instead of the Cultural Marxist pap they sell as Buddhism at the hip, trendy meditation centers.
>convince
Ask for the fear of God from God, not books. Books can give you ideas and insight, but they are lacking in their ability to grant proper fear.
Church fathers have debates and refutations off all kinds of false believes. So yes.
Just typing Christian arguments aginst X will give you tons of results.
>yah Jeezy wot da fuk u doin up dere?
>I feel like I'm just trying to believe so I can make my life easier
nothing wrong with that
God does not want to convince you.
this
and this
I have read Jung. He's trash. Pure feels over reals.
Varg Vikernes
Imagine believing in a God that in reality is just a copy of a copy of another God. Yahweh, or Enlil, must be confused with all these people turned against each other calling out to him in different names under different mumbo jumbo veils. Christianity not only makes no sense but is a bastard child of Judaism. It is a religion of nothingness - project your own vision of God and worship him. And not to mention the million cults of Christianity, these different supposed gateways to heaven. Choose your cult wisely! There's still no chance of anyone getting there, because nobody follows the religion faithfully, reducing it into an incoherent LARP.
Based empiricist
haha, I remember middle school
christcucks eternally btfo. literally.
This the only argument religion has left now now. The new atheists were a blessing for you guys
>amazon.com
based af rec dude. saved.
nah, its just Yea Forums ad homs.
>peddling brainwashing trash
orthodoxy is the pure surrender of your mental faculties to an authority entirely composed of human beings telling you what to believe. if you are that retarded you deserve to be exploited
isnt he anti Christianity and pro paganism?
Peterson isn't Christian.
Doesn't he have a similar problem? Does he believe that the resurrection of Christ happened?
I could be way off here
Christianity is garbage but if you insist just read Eckhart, I've heard John of the Cross is good too but his philosophy is basically just Buddhism with unnecessary guilt added on.
He takes religion from the level of metaphysics to mere psychology and petty bourgeois morality. I would not only say that he isn't Christian, but also that I think he is anti-Christian, since he psychologizes and trivializes Christianity into nothing other than a pragmatic moral code. The lesson to take away from Christ bearing the cross, to Jordan and his ilk, is that you should get a job (your cross in life is to slave away from the very people who killed Christ! How ironic!)
Just watch this video. Perhaps you've seen it.
youtu.be
There is nothing Christian about this guy. He is anti-Christian, just like 99% of psychologists.
*for the very people
>I've heard John of the Cross is good too but his philosophy is basically just Buddhism with unnecessary guilt added on.
Embarrassingly bad take.
I think you're viewing this from a completely different lens. I don't think he means to get a job just to support a system you don't agree with.
if you have to be convinced, it's not for you.
Big disagree. Some people come to Christianity only after great and agonizing intellectual efforts. Stop discouraging people from reckoning things for themselves; yes, it can end badly for some, who are never satisfied, but for others, it can help them see the light.
read Guenon
>Peterson's Christianity archetype argument
where does he go in depth about this argument? im intrigued.
>Peterstein
>depth
lmao
Based post. Peterson is no Christian, he’s a Jungian who likes Christian symbolism.
If you had ACTUALLY read the studies you'd see that they point towards the opposite being true.
Are you a Christian user?
Do you understand how tradition works? Its not simply the opinion of whoever is bishop of xyz, everyone of bound the apostolic tradition which is larger than any individual, and spans much further than some pea brain
Are you Christian
Yes, I'm Catholic.
Why does every thread about religion just turn into shit flinging. Why can’t atheists make their own threads and stay in them and Christians have their own threads and stay in them. Why can’t this thread just be people recommending Christian literature to this man to help him find faith rather than an argument? I know this is Yea Forums but come on, most people here act like absolute redditors
It’s weird to me that you said bourgeois morality as a catholic user
Are you a Marxist catholic?
>help him find faith
I would rather kill someone than degrade them into becoming a blind slave to religious dogma. At least they can't be undignified any further once they are dead.
No, I'm apolitical in practice, but in theory I'm a monarchist. Hatred of the bourgeois merchant class is a Catholic virtue in my opinion. Jesus wasn't a fan of the money-makers and handlers and it's curious that we only ever see Jesus behave violently once (from what I can recall), when he storms a temple, drives out the merchants there, flips their tables, etc. So while I hate the bourgeoisie, this doesn't keep me from acknowledging the divine institutions of power that preceded merely capitalistic bourgeois rule. The opposite of a Marxist isn't a capitalist, it's a monarchist. I think Marx himself acknowledged this in the Manifesto.
How did you come to be a monarchist?
First it was mostly larping after I read different Catholic reactionaries like de Maistre, Louis de Bonald, Donoso Cortes, but then I actually started learning about historical monarchies and what was accomplished under monarchical institutions and it all made a lot of sense. Also reading a lot of Carlist literature and some Catholic theologians like Saint Thomas Aquinas. Even Aristotle influenced me here.
In sum, learning about
1. 18th century Catholic reactionaries
2. Historical monarchies
3. Carlist theorists
4. Catholic theologians and ancient philosophers
I should emphasize that I think a mixed monarchical system is best, and I agree with Aquinas on this that there is room for a lot of political diversity within a monarchy. For example, one can have a sort of minor court-republic within a monarchy, elected officials who form a court that can inform the monarch on the state of affairs of their particular regions (even though the monarch would have the last say). Stuff like that I think makes monarchy more feasible and has many historical precedents.
Very interesting user.
How did you become a Catholic originally? Thanks for writing such an in depth response.
I was raised Protestant and lost my faith around age 17. I was something of an embittered atheist-agnostic for a few years. Then I read Thomas Carlyle's On Heroes and he was the first person to make me sympathetic not just to Christianity again but also to religion in general. I then proceeded to study different religions, esp. Hinduism/Buddhism. I was going down the eastern path until I read Fr. Seraphim Rose, who is Orthodox. He sort of planted the seeds of faith back into me and I gradually came around to studying more and more Christian apologetics, writers, scriptures, etc. and in that way I regained my faith and ditched the eastern stuff. Catholicism just made sense to me (though I respect the Eastern Orthodox Church as well). My family/ancestors were all Catholic till some fell to Protestantism. The Catholic Church seemed to fulfill the things that I thought were lacking in the Protestant Church I attended growing up. I was aware of the Church's problems, but honestly the Church has been through worse than what it's going through now and I have some hope that its ways can be restored. And just reading things like the old and new Catechisms, the great theologians, etc. It just all clicked for me. I've never been happier, felt more fulfilled and enjoyed the time God has allotted me on earth as I do now. Sorry if I wrote too much. This is really just a schematic overview, but I'll say that it's all be very personal and experiential. I think grace and mercy are very tangible things; I don't think I'd have been convinced without a fair amount of prayer /when/ I was lacking faith. Through prayer I came to experientially know Christ and this is a sort of surety that no amount of reading can recreate, even though the reading served as a good basis for my spiritual exercises.
>Through prayer I came to experientially know Christ and this is a sort of surety that no amount of reading can recreate, even though the reading served as a good basis for my spiritual exercises.
Damn, I'm pretty jealous. Maybe I should give prayer a shot.
Although I agree with the Jungian argument, I don't think it will ever make me believe. I think my only hope is to have a spiritual experience (I've never felt spiritual so I'm not even sure what that would be like).
Also thanks again for such an in fantastic response user.
Can you recommend sources on based buddhism, friend?
Chesterton "Orthodoxy". A must
Mere Christianity, but not reading it with doubt and criticism but trying to meekly adopt the point of view and understand it.
Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling
Easier by far is to just take the faith pill, turn to prayer, ask Jesus for a relationship yourself and let him guide you. Accept that the resurrection really happened, and most Christian dogma is truth.
Peterson is an egoist and not a model to look to for religion or religious understanding. Looking to people trying to fit the depths of spirituality into their shitty models is a fast way to get nowhere.
Spoken like a true NPC.
What else did you expect? The desparation stemming from existential dread just pops from the screen whenever a nu-christian posts on here. Nothing but desparate pleas to 'just believe', not because of reality but in spite of it. Then there's of course the obsession with worldly power, 'beating' and 'winning over' opponents, which seems strange in a world that can be judged within seconds. Why care so much about coming out on top in a irreparably sinful world? It's almost as if Christianity is just a coping mechanism for the inevitability of death, and the impotence of the average person in the grand scheme of things
Surprised this was only mentioned in the thread once
Based and Faithpilled
Spot on. If Peterson can do anything for you, he can show you that religion is important, at which point you now know enough to completely dismiss everything else he has to say on the issue and start reading real theologians.
I wish I could buy you a beer for this post. I am also a Catholic Monarchist, and I'm tired of the implications that every anti-capitalist Christian must therefore be some liberation theology communist.
>It's almost as if
fuck off Reddit, and stay fucked off
How certain of your faith are you user? What convinced you?
I highly recommend memorizing and repeating the Jesus Prayer often (even better if you can learn it in the original Greek). The prayer is used more ritually by the Orthodox than Catholics, but Catholics know it and from what I understand Eastern Catholics use it often.
"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner."
I remember once I was having an incredibly bad day, and I just started repeated this over and over again. I won't try to describe the nature of the experience I had that night, but it solidified my faith.
Very true! I don't understand how any true Catholic can be leftwing. Any time I meet these people I send them a bunch of reactionary papal encyclicals in the hopes that they'll rethink some things. But very based. I'd grab a beer with you for sure.
My 2 cents: you don't need to be religious, you can read the holy scriptures of the most known religions and get teachings here and there. Consider religion as philosophy, then live your own life and do your own experience to prove that this or that thing is true to you.
>Consider religion as philosophy
Cringe.
Please stop coping everyone. It won't bring you peace. Religion? Really? Is this all we have left? Just live and be a good person. Learn fron your mistakes and move on. Easier said than done.
Good luck, user, hope this helps.
We're not against capital, rather capitalism.
i am interested by the thought of learning more about christianity and philosophy without becoming a fag about it and have a large curiosity for nothing in particular but i just want to read something
where should i start?
oxford study bible or something?
>only if you have a tiny little bird brain, the rest of us can think for ourselves
I don't know about this. I think it'd be pretty epic to BTFO the rich right now for what they've done to the world. His quote makes sense for his time period, but the rich are our overlords now and I think they deserve severe punishment.
Oxford Revised English Study Bible is definitely good
How readable is that for a normie?
Alternative was this,
amazon.co.uk
Opened the thread only to post this.
It's very readable, it is great in terms of clarity and accuracy of translation. It also provides plenty of footnotes, introductory sections to books, and longer introductions for OT, Apocrypha, and NT that do lots to contextualize and explain the structures of them.
It was my first introduction to scriptures when I took some classes in university and it got me hooked.
Can't comment on Oxford Authorized Version as I've never read it
If you want an interesting perspective, try the essay A Will to Believe by William James for a general defense of Faith, Ralph Waldo Emerson's Divinity School Address for a look at Christianity without preconceived notions, and I also recommend Kierkegaard.
Oh, and the New Testament. Especially John.
So I’d get by with this without needing a class/looking up meanings every few seconds or anything?
Orthodox study Bible for the real experience.
>ctrl + f
>no Brothers Karamazov or any Dostoyevski book about faith
Bros, I...
Peterson isn't actually a Christian, he just likes the morality. When asked about the divinity of Christ he sort of dances around the question in a way that suggests its not of much importance to him one way or the other.
Not a single moral, religious, emotional, or even scientific belief can exist in and of itself without the other two to give it ground. No matter how firm an idea may seem, it is still only an idea and as much subject to sentiment, intuition, approximation, etc as any other idea. That doesn't mean you throw away reason. I'm just saying there's no belief, not even in science, that you can get to by way of syllogism.
You have to take time to ask yourself if this religion resonates with you emotionally, if appears to be true because it fits the situation of man perfectly. I believe it does. You have to ask yourself if there are needs within you it appears to answer and account for without necessarily making life easier. Because it doesn't actually make life easier. It demands abstinence, forgiveness, charity, personal discipline, etc.
But don't go straight for the gospels. That's a recent thing added by Protestantism. The gospels are of permanent importance, but the faith existed for a long time without them. Read the church fathers and read men like Kierkegaard, Aquinas, Coleridge, Milton, Cardinal Newman and others.
>he new atheists were a blessing for you guys
Those are literally new atheist arguments, that's why we're telling you to return to reddit. New Atheists are just atheists.
I wish I could believe in Islam because the way some of them order their societies genuinely appeals to me. I can't find any reason to believe God was revealing himself to Mohammad.
>Peterson isn't actually a Christian, he just likes the morality.
Just like the 'christians' of Yea Forums
great post idiot
Sorry for delay. This is a complicated question, and I will not claim to be speaking from a position of orthodoxy on this as far as doctrine goes. I am as sure as I am about anything that there is a God, but more than that, even if there isn't, we should be religious anyway. I think William James has a very interesting take on this, essentially, that we are hardwired towards religious belief in the same way that we think and communicate and do all the other things that distinguish us as humans. I don't take his position literally in the biological sense, but there does seem to be something sound and natural about accepting God as an ontological foundation and as a teleological direction. As it happens, I believe in God literally, so questions of religion in the absence of God can remain thought experiments, but I think they are worth mentioning.
There is a jump in between being a Theist and being Catholic, and this is where I will leave some room for error, since I do not think we can know the true nature of God in the way that we can know other things, but we can make some very educated approximations. I could tell you about the intellectual and philosophical beauty of the resurrection, the interesting traditions that are reflected in 2000 years of Catholic theology, the fusion of Pagan and Christian beliefs, the political and spiritual labor that has gone into making the Church an institution the likes of which the world has never seen before or since, but ultimately, this wouldn't be enough. There is no magic combination of evidence or reasoning to bring you to belief in one religion over another, assuming you have accepted God. Simply put, I choose to be Catholic because it aligns with everything I feel a religion should do practically, and there is a depth to it that gives it a sense of the transcendent. It accommodates the intellectual and mystical traditions alike, and has managed to remain somehow outside of time while responding to the needs of the world (for better or for worse). Even in error, something keeps it going, which is a testament to God's perseverance and not man's lunacy. No merely political body could survive the low points of the Church, and there have been low points. Catholicism gives you structure and tradition but plenty of room to move about in your own journey, it does not cheapen God to a "friend" with whom you have a "personal relationship", nor does it abstract God to some unnameable "force". The Trinity is a sublime concept.
Point is, I believe in God firmly, I choose to be Catholic, and I pray every day for the wisdom to navigate this space truly. Also, for what its worth, I was lead to God by Plotinus and Catholicism by Augustine and Chesterton.
The book of John.
Ratzinger explains the validity of the Christian (and Catholic) position on faith in this book. Completely btfos Dawkins and Hitchins in 1 chapter.