It's over

Dear Dharma Treasure Sangha,

It was recently brought to the attention of Dharma Treasure Board members that John Yates (Upasaka Culadasa) has engaged in ongoing conduct unbecoming of a Spiritual Director and Dharma teacher. He has not followed the upasaka (layperson) precepts of sexual harmlessness, right speech, and taking what is not freely given.

We thoroughly reviewed a substantial body of evidence, contemplated its significance, and sought confidential counsel from senior Western Dharma teachers, who urged transparency. We also sought legal advice and spoke with various non-profit consultants to draw on their expertise and objectivity in handling this matter. As a result of our process, the Board has voted to remove Mr. Yates from all positions with Dharma Treasure.

In a series of Board meetings as well as written correspondences with Mr. Yates, he admitted to being involved in a pattern of sexual misconduct in the form of adultery. There is no evidence that this adultery involved improper interactions with students or any form of unwanted sexual advances. Rather, adultery with multiple women, some of whom are sex workers, took place over the past four years. The outcome was extended relationships with a group of about ten women. Relationships with some continue to the present day.

He has provided significant financial support to some of these women, a portion of which was given without the prior knowledge or consent of his wife. Mr. Yates also said he engaged in false speech by responding to his wife’s questions with admissions, partial truths, and lies during these years.

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Other urls found in this thread:

mailchi.mp/dharmatreasure/new-teacher-training-course-other-happenings-at-dharma-treasure-3007417?e=693097afaa
politicallyincorrect.blogspot.com/2019/08/liberal-western-buddhism-as-white.html
discord.gg/az3CXnJ
amaravati.org/audio/
youtube.com/watch?v=9_7sTiQ-jIM
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Turns out Eastern religion is all about ME ME ME who would’ve guessed?

So he just banged hookers? Whats the big deal?

He was married while he did and lied to his wife about it, hence his claim about being a super-enlightened meditation expert in an lineage GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO BUDDHA HIMSELF *GASP* is exposed as nonsense, the man is a spiritual fraud like Osho.

>A western snake oil peddler who sells watered down Buddhism is caught being a degenerate for the umpteenth time this past century

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So this guy was basically another Alan Watts. What living figures can one turn to for genuine spiritual guidance?

Your father.

Do you have a source other than Yea Forums?

don't give a fuck. that book is based and my life has improved for reading it.

this.

Banging hookers doesn't mean you're not enlightened. And only Kant thinks you can't lie to your wife, I believe Buddhists call such skillful means...

What is enlightenment anyway? It's a load of horseshit.
There is definitely a mythical/supernatural element to it, even in strict zen.

this makes me like him MORE if anything: the guy wrote one of the best meditation manuals out there (despite the spiritual garbage), and bangs hookers. I'm the least "spiritual" person out there but I owe him a lot for helping me focus and quiet my mind a bit

>no source
>no link

continue

banging hookers doesn't count as cheating. it's pretty indecent for a woman to tell her husband who he can have sex with. the pater familias must reign supreme

Based.

Wait... so does this meditation guide not actually work? Because I’ve been doing like 30 minutes a day following his guide

No, all these haters never even read the book, or they would've noticed that appendix with the list of escort services.

Don’t meditate. I went to a retreat and was doing 5 hours a day after several years of doing it, and had a fucking horrible experience. I realised what this insidious shit is actually doing. At first you think negative emotions and attachments are going away, that bullshit, it’s all emotions and attachments. Every tiny aspect and association that forms who you are is being slowly but surely chiselled away at during meditation. If you pursue it, you will get to the point where it all collapses. You will look at yourself and see total absence, just nothing. Your identity is important, and everything about it goes away, all the things you thought mattered, all your plans for the future just fall into this facade of one dimensional nothingness. That is the end goal. I don’t where all this happy shit comes from after this, it seems like this was the endgame all along. Everything feels dull, I feel like a zombie, I’m an empty hole and everything is just superficial nothingness. It’s not pleasant, I feel as though I’ve permanently damaged myself and my mind, and barely clung onto core aspects of myself. That’s what this shit does, never forget that. It will make you beyond a nihilist, and it won’t stop. I can’t follow thoughts anymore because I’ve trained my mind to stop them- you can’t undo that. You will be unthinking, just reactionary, no judgments, no opinions, no emotions, no attachments, like a fucking insect. That’s what this shit does, it makes you a fucking insect. Like a bundle of nerves that just responds to things, there’s nothing really there. All I am now is a weird fucking void that drifts around and reacts to things without any sort of personality involved, like a programmed machine. I fucking hate this so much. There would be no difference if I was dead, I basically feel like I am. Don’t start this path. Even if you do only like 10 minutes a day, this is the endgame, this is what it’s slowly doing to you.

baby's first anatta

Follow hindu teaching instead, buddhism is a nihilist cult

>I’ve trained my mind to stop them- you can’t undo that

lol ok retard. You can change your thoughts once, but not twice.

You just sound depressed dude. You were probably depressed before and just hoped this will save you.
The whole point is not to stop thinking, just to learn control and consciously guide your brain.
This is what happens when western retards fall for the meditation meme

Actual monks not interested in peddling books or similar shit, probably

His book works, but it still hurts.
>It will make you beyond a nihilist, and it won’t stop.
based retard stopped after A&P

I have this photo hanging in my house, should I take it down?

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Don't be so fast:
>Please do not take this letter as fact. It includes false information, and distortions and misrepresentations of fact. I, in fact, resigned from the Dharma Treasure Board due to irreconcilable differences including their refusal to engage in mediation. Rather than accept my resignation as tendered, they chose to vote me off the Board and remove me as Spiritual Director of Dharma Treasure. A fuller and more complete explanation will be forthcoming. In the mean time, I strongly recommend everyone hold off on jumping to conclusions or engaging in analysis or commentary. We are taking our time (myself and my advisors) so as to respond in the healthiest and most appropriate way with the best interest of all parties in mind. Thank you, Culadasa

more like Drama Treasure

Thank you for this update!

I already had a hard time taking the enlightenment stuff seriously when reading that guy bickering on internet with another apparently well established guy who obviously was jelly of him

>You will be unthinking, just reactionary, no judgments, no opinions, no emotions, no attachments, like a fucking insect
sounds based, sign me up

Cloistered monks and gurus who aren't out looking for converts.

>John Yates, PhD

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that no-self is some spooky shit

Culadasa is a pretty cool guy. He meditates and doesn't afraid of anything

Take the UG-pill and come to the realization that all '''''spirtual'''' teachers are frauds.

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Not true. Daddy good daddy

>You will be unthinking, just reactionary, no judgments, no opinions, no emotions, no attachments, like a fucking insect. That’s what this shit does, it makes you a fucking insect. Like a bundle of nerves that just responds to things, there’s nothing really there.

You should be writting screenplays for Hollywood.

>juden attempts to discredit the only approachable meditation guide for everyday westerner

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But Alan watts was based, faggot.

what are some good meditation books written by non-degenerates?

sila (morality) and bows adhering to it are part of meme-buddhism, he could have been a degenerate poly-cuck californian if he didn't take marriage bows and lie extensively about his degeneracy

That wasnt very buddha nature of you.

Also thanks for confirming that not all egos can handle this realization.

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mailchi.mp/dharmatreasure/new-teacher-training-course-other-happenings-at-dharma-treasure-3007417?e=693097afaa

link?

you mean like, uncaught ones?

posted from his account on tmi subreddit

Hello R*ddit

In service,
The Dharma Treasure Board of Directors
Blake Barton
Jeremy Graves
Matthew Immergut
Eve Smith
Nancy Yates
>Nancy Yates
so this was basically written by a seething wife? sounds biased

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>posted from his account on tmi subreddit
that's even worse than the sexual deviant part

he warned us

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who he?

what if you're already like that before even trying meditation

>Rather, adultery with multiple women, some of whom are sex workers, took place over the past four years. The outcome was extended relationships with a group of about ten women. Relationships with some continue to the present day.
the Chad dharma teacher

Based. Broski just got a little poon tang alright alright alright.

is excessive libido one of the side effects of improper meditation? saw a bunch of /x/ schizos posting about it the other day

>Banging hookers doesn't mean you're not enlightened

Lol, for you.

Any buddhistfag that can actually respond to this coherently beside using the 'ego' as an insult?

>mistranslates not-self to no-self
>become a buddhist zombie

It depends on what you consider "enlightenment". There are degrees of it and Yates himself said gaining stage of Arahat is not the end of training, especially on the side of virtue.

i think most buddhists will agree that unguided meditation is dangerous, only californian retards believe it's all flowers and it can't go wrong

Easily. He bailed halfway and came to retarded conclusions to make an excuse to himself. Read MCTB for further guidance.

if he's not lying (and he probably isn't to a degree), the issue is that he failed to identify with god, and hacked away at his persona until little was left. he could just be depressed, or angry, his faith is weak, or a larp. we don't really know based off of a single post. meditation practices can certainly turn you into a lunatic if you aren't careful, and many so called teachers don't have your best interests in mind. even buddha had students commit suicide after he told them to meditate on sickness and death, danger is always present

still meditation books make a lot of big claims about mindfulness and the benefits of meditation, and if a guy who has gone through the path can't stop himself from banging whores and lying to his wife let me tell you mindfulness doesn't seem so impressive anymore

i meditate and was following this guy's book, but seeing this he hardly seems a reliable guide anymore

It's a real danger with Buddhist meditation. If that's not a sign it's demonic then I don't know what is.

>Yates himself said gaining stage of Arahat is not the end of training
Then Yates is a typical Western meme-buddhist faggot, which completely explains why this happened in the first place.
He's not the first one to try and downplay the significance of enlightenment so he can LARP as an arahant while clearly not having a shred of attainment.

the book is full of grandiloquent claims about meditation and mindfulness helping to develop universal compassion, and this guy, the teacher who developed the system and who went all the way though it, is unable to stop himself from hurting the person with whom he holds the closest loyalistic ties, having EXPLICIT bows about what is allowed and what not, not a stranger, or a guy he hates, or a small animal whatever

let me tell you, the claims to universal compassion stop being very impressive after that

exactly, totally dismantles the claims he makes about his own system

it's one thing to believe Arahats are not 100% perfect human beings, it's another to believe that their enlightenment standards don't expect them even to uphold very basic moral standards

anybody that studies buddhism seriously will tell you that guys is a materialist fraud that shouldn't have been trusted in the first place. false teachers will always exist

Every decent book about meditation always warns of its dangers, they didn’t used to but they do now. The reason bad stuff happens is that Buddhism is atheistic and not centered on love but rather on indifference. Man was made by God to know him, accept his love, and give love back in return, not to simply be indifferent. Pursuing the sort of stillness advocated by Buddhists allows demons in.

Besides, there are meditative and contemplative practices used in the West that are safer and more effective that Eastern stuff.

wrong and gay

Yes.

The standard response is that the mind's unfoldment during intensive meditation practice proceeds in ordered stages, often referred to as "dukkha nanas." Some of these stages can be unpleasant. To put a finer point on it, certain dukkha nanas can be EXTREMELY unpleasant for some practitioners. The temptation after experiencing such unpleasant phenomena is to stop doing what you're doing - because clearly you're making things worse, right? Only, the progress in practice that you've already made (as the guy in the original post testifies to) can't be reversed: it's yours to keep, whether you like it or not. The problem is twofold: you can't go in reverse, and if you stop practicing, you'll remain stuck in the shitty place where you've beached yourself, indefinitely. There are aspects of what that guy said which are simply fruits of insight, but the specifically NEGATIVE qualities, the "feeling of being permanently damaged, everything feels dull, I feel like a zombie, no emotions, unthinking" etcetera, most of this is dukkha-nana stuff, it's a temporary array of obstacles and mental patterns characteristic to the stage of unfoldment he's currently in, that he has effectively made permanent by stopping practice. The only way for him to feel better is to keep going, keep meditating, even if that temporarily makes him feel worse, you have to come out the other side. Quitting practice is actually the worst thing he could do in the situation he's in.

This is dharmaoverground Daniel Ingram meme shit that is not part of actual Buddhist orthodoxy.

I've gone through most of them myself.

Good for you, but that doesn't make it Buddhist.

>muh orthodoxy
Buddhist orthodoxy is an oxymoron.

Fine, ''dukkha nanas'' are not a part of literally any single Buddhist sect that has ever existed except for a tiny movement on an internet forum within the last 10 years. They're not Buddhist.

If the term is useful and applies to something that people actually experience then I don't see the problem. If it's not "Buddhist" so be it.

buddhism was designed for a time full of overtly empty spiritual ritualism, which is basically the opposite of what we have now, it only fuels nihilistic materialism in the current situation

>If it's not "Buddhist" so be it.
Then stop LARPing as a buddhist.

>Stop using my word! You can't use my word!
Lol.

I'm not a buddhist, you retard. I just hate you LARPing faggots.

aren't dukkha nanas part of Mahasi Sayadaw tradition? which is an innovation as you said, but not from 10 years ago and not from the internet or western

Is Buddhist thought closed? Is it forbidden to innovate upon it in any way? Or do you just have to be from the Eastern Hemisphere for it to be valid? It's even funnier since you admit you don't actually have any investment in it to begin with.

didn't the Buddha say that the Dharma would only last 1000 years? 500 years after they allowed women in the Shanga? by his own word nothing is Buddhism at this point until a new Buddha comes to renew the Dharma

based culadasa
do you think he skillfully examined his intentions before banging the hookers?

it's all ogre now

The Buddha can go fuck himself.

Dukkha nanas are knowledges described in Visudhimagga.

What’s wrong with Daniel Ingram?

>tfw when skillfully slipping your cock into a tight pussy being mindfully aware of all the empty physical sensations and reaching 4th jhana while climaxing

>Here is Idea X
>This is an innovation! It is not orthodox!
>I'm just going to teach it anyway, okay?
>...
>2,000 years later
>How dare you contradict Idea X!
>Idea X is an ancient part of orthodoxy!

söyboy NPC

>Is Buddhist thought closed? Is it forbidden to innovate upon it in any way?
Within a Buddhist context, yes. The Buddha was pretty clear about the fact that he had it all figured out, and the path he laid out was the only correct one and everybody else was a dumb retard and soon after his death (soon is several hundred years in this context) his teachings would deteriorate (guess he got that one right).
See pic related.

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If his teachings have deteriorated, then his teachings that his teachings will deteriorate has deteriorated and is not reliable.

Then there are no Buddhists. Good job.

really disappointing, i guess catholics were right all along

OHNONONO BODHIDHARMA SAVE ME

this
kids all the way

Is there a difference between hindu and buddhist meditation?

I wonder if the Catholics have experienced any recent moral failures on the part of their clergy.

what? is diddling kids the superior lapse in good conduct or something?

Man's immorality and imperfection at all levels is baked into catholicism, buddhism makes outrageous claims about perfection in life that their most advanced meditators systematically fail to demonstrate

>Don't worry that our clergy went around raping children en mass, dude, we teach that people are imperfect so it's not a theological problem ;)
Catholics never fail to disgust me.

What is a good book for meditation practice then? I read the suttas/sutras when I can, but could use supplements. I wish to be a bodhisattva. Thank you and have a wonderful day.

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Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha
The Mind Illuminated

The Mind Illuminated has a great troubleshooting
don't let some hookers ruin it for you

Thank you. I will practice towards my own salvation dilligently.

Yates ordination isn't even valid, the person he fraudulently claims to have been ordained by are Chinese pretenders to the Karma Kagyu lineage.

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so much for mindfulness, at this point it seems all their claims have dissolved and only the "subjective non-suffering" meme if defensible, if you believe their subjective claims that so far have been false

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There is always just doing your own spiritual work instead of jacking off to books on the subject.

There is always Pannobhasa Bhikkhu...

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sounds like liberalism

sounds like a glorified Joe Rogan

based alcoholic

Unfortunately there aren't any. Like with most things, the more you are interested into something and dig deeper, the less people you can find to talk to. Most of the "mainstream" ones, tend to turn into a not-for-profit organizations. You can use them just to get small nuggets, but that is all. For more serious studies, you will have to either travel to the place where the philosophy originated and find a teacher/enter a temple/monastery, or you simply learn the language of the scriptures, and unlock the mysteries by yourself (this is called having no teacher). Like religion, philosophy is also the same. You choose a path and you dedicate yourself towards it. It is a long road.

Classical liberalism, and just a touch fashy.

politicallyincorrect.blogspot.com/2019/08/liberal-western-buddhism-as-white.html

any good replacement books for TMI? someone recommended pic related, but want to confirm it's not written by a crazy heroin junkie first

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show me a western organization that fires married men for visiting prostitutes. based and wholesome af.

Clearly he's never heard of Ikkyu. If he wasn't drunk off his ass at a sake house he was banging a whore. That is until he fell for some chick and spent the rest of his life banging away on her and writing 2 Live Crew level Zen poetry about it.

not horse shit, neurology. it's gradually turning yourself into a full-NPC sociopath, which is extremely pleasant at the beginning and end (not middle) because consciousness=pain.

not a recommendation. jews do the same with kabbalah, theosophists/freemasons/scientologists have their own cobbled together methods for same.

first breakthrough is turning off linguistic thought briefly, experiencing symbol-less existence (like a preverbal child). buddhists and yogis do this by clearing their mind, kabbalists do it by overloading their pun-generating circuitry until the whole thing blanks out for a moment.

most groups at this point then they sell you on that experience as a glimpse of mystical whatever, and do the normal cult thing.

if you go on from there you learn to manipulate your brain into brief seizure-like states that are a bit like drug effects (i.e. free cocaine high if you ramp up your dopamine, which you can do by paying real close attention to certain interoceptive sensations).

as you start to do this more and more often, you wind up addicted to jhanas, and crash more and more often. you can't go back to not knowing how to get high for free, so you just want to 'get off the wheel' -- i.e. stop suffering.

at this point, every sensation is suffering, and lots of ppl go insane. dark night of the soul, da'at, &c.

if you continue forward, you start dismantling aspects of your consciousness until you're unconscious, but still alive -- alternative to suicide.

the more respectable sort of monasteries make sure ppl spend DECADES meditating on peaceful niceness before they go 'all the way' and turn off their qualia forever. people who do this prematurely will literally kill without a thought. also tend to get the same weird dyslexia/aphasia/spoonerisms sociopaths show.

some hardcore theravada monks just do straight dry vipassana (insight) meditation without all the compassion crap. they wind up like Yea Forumstards, it's nuts -- google it, they laugh at the wagies and masturbate on corpses all day.

(some forms of) christianity has a different attitude towards suffering, in that it can be holy instead of inherently evil. if all suffering is bad, and all perception is suffering, the idea of turning of perception for good (like the peak of an acid trip, forever) gets v. appealing.

if you have gotten halfway thru one of these 'enlightenment' paths and want to do something other than progress towards void, The Interior Castle and The Cloud of Unknowing are good places to start.

tl;dr learn to control your own nervous system well enough and you tend to want to do nothing but turn it off.

big if true
jhana junkie here

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hilarious post

one of the most lucid posts on this subject I’ve read.

may i ask, how did you come to such a cross-traditional understanding? ive been trying to assimilate the same intuition myself. where can i go to learn more (or perhaps, to begin).

and knowing this, would you still apply any elements of mindfulness / mysticism in your own life (say, 15 minutes of meditation a day) or swear off it entirely?

holy kek

*Ahem*

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>one of the most lucid posts on this subject I’ve read.
lol

Cringe

lol

This is why you should stay away all "spiritual teachers". Only actual monks and ascetics should be venerated as teachers.
I've never seen Joe Rogan do gif related

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Christians don't claim to be perfecti, that's the Messelian heresy that Buddhists commit. All persons are capable of sin and there is a positive requirement of humility to be aware of your continued sinfulness.
>For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. - Psalms 51:3

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is this what people talk about on /x/

Even if it's true, you can't discredit his contributions to meditation teachings based solely on his character. Chogyam Trungpa similarly debauched himself and renounced his monastic vows, but you'd be hardpressed to find people that would say he was not a master and offered a treasury of wisdom.

The harsh but true truth. As the buddha himself once answered his student on what to do after reaching enlightenment: "I'm hungry... wanna get some food then fuck? Don't worry I have zero bias, I can be a top and bottom."

TMI book is full of assertions about mindfulness giving mental clarity, strength of mind, enhanced ability to solve problems and increased compassion for all beings, ease to resist temptations, ... And apparently the guy who systematized the method and went through it is unable to uphold basic morality, or EXPLICIT vows, or from cheating on his wife with 10 whores spending the Patreon bucks he got by selling his method.

i mean if you are going to sell the method just say it's purely about removing self-suffering while remaining a piece of shit human being, but don't try to sell all the other """benefits""" of meditation which are transparently fake. At least of this method.

Joe Rogan is a gateway to the alt-right

what’s with all the moralfags in this thread

What can meditation actually do for you?

Let’s detach it from the morality bullshit. What neurological and psychological changes will one get from following a simple mantra such as “focus on the breath” for X minutes a day for Y days?

This should be of interest to all.

As the reader may have noticed, the replies to this post are unsatisfactory. This is because human beings and buddhists (indeed, the distinction is apt) don't share in one very important assumption: suffering is to be eliminated. As any whole human being knows, to be human is to suffer, it is standing face-to-face with God, acknowledging Him, Him acknowledging You. To kill this, to "kill your self" as buddhists so accurately put it, does not only throw life away, but worse still, it is to throw love away. One can imagine buddha observing one of those countless banal tragedies in China or India where life is cheap, a man slipping on his own feces to fall head first before a moving truck, a mother being crushed inside an escalator due to flimsy safety regulations, a semi driving straight through a family living only the youngest child alive, and think: "Ah, perfection."

The appropriate reaction to buddhism and all meditation is to feel a modicum of disgust and quickly distance yourself from the now-soulless practicioner. They are forsaken by God.

if you want to sell a path that doesn't claim explicitly to uphold moral values that's fine, if you are going to sell a path full of memes about compassion and virtue and the power of mindfulness to support that virtue, and the master proves to be really bad at that, you have to question if he is really good at anything else he is selling too. At the end of the day you only have his word for it, and his word seems to be garbage

Didn't Buddha teach that women were incapable of attaining enlightenment and akin to animal souls? Why is there any obligation to women to be loyal, it's not as if an actual human is harmed? The only crime is if the act inhibits a being who has the capacity to attain enlightenment i.e. the man.

What makes a women different to a bed sheet after a wet dream, they're both stuck in the cycle of reincarnation and suffering, why do they matter?

Sila (virtue) is an integral part of Buddhism and Culadasa took explicit vows, if you want to follow your own "women are whores ebin path to enlightenment" that's great, but don't try to sell it as something else

Increase gray matter in areas regarding self-awareness, decreased gray matter in others. Like the handcuffs and various restraints during lobotomy, you will be aware of and actively suppress all uncomfortable thoughts your self will bring regarding your imminent and rapid deterioration, until at last you will reach enlightenment, or in more coloquial terms, you'll be braindead.

You are supposed to use these meditation techniques to remove "unwanted noise" from your mind so you can focus it towards using it for the important things: Life plans, goals, etc etc. It appears your mind was all noise and no use. You never had any real ambitions and were distracted in your day to day by a myriad of bullshit thoughts that just entertained you enough to not realize the emptiness you already had in your mind. Once the noise went out there was only silence, for you really didn't have anything to do with your life, it was all already a set up routine long time ago. Many such cases.

In short, get a life. You didn't have one.

And who's to put the limit on which thoughts are wanted and which are not? The self? In the first place desire is the source of suffering. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

So will we remove him from the chart now? Was the accepting of (((western))) "Buddhists" into Yea Forums just another liberal and misguided sense of compassion? And how do we keep Yea Forums pure from California Dharma influences in the future?

Should all books not written by long ago dead Aryan men be removed?

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The book still works, even if there's a risk of banging hookers at stage 10

Imagine trying to be a someone else that is a non-self. What is wrong with Buddhists, the worst kind of escapism: "I don't want to suffer so I'll cower in terror at the face of the world and pretend I don't exist." Why can't Buddhists accept the sickness of life?

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Well, his claims about the external benefits of his method are fake, maybe the internal benefits are true. On the other side he had no issue lying to his wife and using Patreon bucks to pay for whores after taking explicit vows about "right speech", so hard to take his words at face value...

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>Many such cases.

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Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about.

if it really works, it works to reduce self-suffering, it's clear the other claims about mindfulness are either false or REALLY underwhelming. i guess if all you care about is selfish reduction of self-suffering (and you believe the guy is credible enough to buy this part of his method) it may be an attractive path, but at that point heroin may be too

steve jobs used meditation for the same purpose, adjustment of neural parameters for personal gain

meditation is based, this shows that it can unironically help you thrive in a capitalist setting, moralfags BTFO

Yeah, you clearly don't. The fact you put meditation and ambition hand in hand is laughable. Just because you like to take a few deep breaths after a long day wagecucking doesn't mean you meditate.

Would have been more kino if he was caught fucking \ being fucked by Thai ladyboys.

monks

Of course I don't. After all, meditation is such a big deal. I wish one day I'll be proficient enough at this to even DARE to call myself a meditator, sensei-sama.
If only I had a glimpse of an insight on how to meditate as you do, oh elevated being! The moon, the sun and stars would bow before me!

That's what I do. It helps me a lot to focus in my goals as a lay person and get rid of the bullshit thoughts that distract me from killing it.
Anyone else who uses meditation for anything other than mundane gain without being a monk is severely misguided.

From the reports of people useig them, I found drugs to be a really bad method of attaining happiness.

the parts of MCTB about how high achievements of Awakening do not completely purify your psychology/morality (the limited action models) continue to seem more and more compelling.
That or the explanation that layman cannot be Arahants is more and more obvious

but the reports about the benefits of mindfulness from the guy who developed the method turned out to be false

the idea that meditation is for the purpose of making you only experience pleasure is western misconception baloney.
Meditation is not for making you feel good but to come to terms with the reality of your experience in all its pain and pleasure.
Stopping meditation as soon as it gets bad is, like others said, unhelpful and not very smart - this is why the maps (such as the Progress of Insight) are very very important for people to understand what the road is like, so they don't stop when it gets tough

TMI ruined my practice

I was making a lot of progress when I just focused on the breath with a timer

TMI introduced all sorts of stage autism that just hindered me

In retrospect it's apparent that TMI was likely a cult. 10 linear "stages"? Promises of the ability for laymen to achieve enlightenment in under two years? Holy fucking shit.

Already speculation to this effect on their subreddit. Can't believe Yea Forums fell for this meme as well, included it in the fucking Buddhism charts

the dukkha nyanas are present in the Visuddhimagga
it is extremely orthodox

arguably, but MCTB still will make claims about mindfulness having benefits, even if he then afterwards writes a chapter saying the 3 practices are separated, he has plenty of parts where they are assumed to support each other, but apparently developing high level mindfulness won't even prevent you from very low level morality traps

i mean if you are going to sell meditation as a selfish method to reduce self-suffering and nothing else that's fine, but even MCTB Daniel Ingram sells stuff about compassion which we see time and time again seem to be empirically missing in buddhism meditation, at least as developed by westerners

Cut them some slack, it's easy for desperate men to fall into such traps. At the very least it's not as harmful as some others.

>a cult
>literally download a pdf for free
i mean Culadasa was milking NEETs for Patreonbux to pay for whores, but he seems a standard internet grifter, not a cult leader in any meaningful sense

he wasn't even banging students, but literally paying whores for sex, what's the point of being a cult leader if you won't even get sex

>TMI introduced all sorts of stage autism that just hindered me
that assumes you would have made progress otherwise, which seems like an assumption

but yeah, TMI not very credible anymore

absolutely remove it from the chart and replace it with a work by a monk
To be honest, even With Each and Every Breath by Thanissaro Bhikkhu combined with Right Concentration should be sufficient

what are those? orthodox Theravada?

>enlightened
>cumbrain
Pick one and only one. Can't believe I actually paid real money for this semen addled hedonist. I feel duped. I feel betrayed. But I see the lesson here, I can only follow my way, at least my mistakes would be my own.

>But I see the lesson here, I can only follow my way, at least my mistakes would be my own.
sounds like you are just retreating back to normie liberalism

Call it what you will. I'm done playing rhetoric.

With Each and Every Breath is by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, orthodox Theravada
Right Concentration is also pretty orthodox but it's written by a layman (sourced exclusively from the Pali suttas though)
TMI is essentially 50% Vajrayana

remember that time Yea Forums collectively fell for a literal cult?

Attached: 1309205291001.gif (645x773, 16K)

The reports about the benefits of TMI method in alleviating suffering significantly are numerous, and it's the main reason I follow the book.

Are you saying Buddhism is a cult or is it something I missed?

so are the reports of the benefits of the beer method in alleviating suffering significantly. let's see how they hold up to closer inspection

TMI / Culadasa's "10 step" Dharma Treasure = cult

This was more or less an appropriation of Buddhism for duping "rationalist" Western basedboys (who, ironically enough, would see themselves as the least vulnerable group in these types of matters)

>implying that TMI's stages autism isn't its best quality
building skillful concentration is obviously non-linear but the gradual introduction of concepts and techniques is helpful at least for me

High onions levels created a dissatisfaction with life, which they thought could be fixed with Culadasa's piecemeal nihilism a la autism

Jesus, if I didn't know any better I'd say this post is some made-up anecdote from some obscure scammy cult's homepage from the early 2000s. Face it man, you fell for it, I fell for it, many of us fell for it, it was an incredibly convincing scam and it was apolitical too, but in the end a scam is a scam is a scam. Today's events have made it clear it's time to move on in search of higher truths.

Attached: 1566331387712.jpg (2712x5224, 3.65M)

No shit, the book was written to cater to the autistic mind

The book reinforces a problematic tendency for the basedboys to retreat into the safety of a theoretical framework and established benchmarks rather than brace the uncertainty of empirical and subjective experience that is so important to any actual practice, and to life in general; to take advantage of them, "Culadasa" offered an attractive "in" to spirituality that allowed them to proceed without discarding their worst bugman traits; a truly Californian spirituality indeed.

That can by said about any tradition/system claiming that.
Face it that methods in book still work. They are not his original inventions. You fell for 'muh infallible teacher' meme.

We Guenon-reading patricians never fell for such decadent moderist nonsense to begin with

You retards all fell for it: I, too, could become enlightened, in the same manner that I grind my useless STEMcel technicals that represent the totality of what I can do in life; 10x coder becomes 10x meditator; Buddhism as a sub-discipline of engineering.

Instead of reading The Bible you gave yourself away to a nasty old man who used you to ejaculate his short-telomere semen all over degenerate whores

The fool and his soul are easily parted. Congratulations on your possession by the devil.

Its called dark night of the soul, please read Mastering the core teachings of the buddha. Maybey find a good teacher and you can get easily through and feel better again. Its just an impermanent phase

So we are to do as he says, not as he does, but how did he know what to say if he's never done, and knowing that he has done then how worthless that doing must have been to result in the severe and continuous parody of its own foundation.

>this bankrupty is simply an unpleasant but temporary hurdle, all who continued believing in our vision and bought even more merchandise to sell to newcomers have prospered. many such cases!

Good we live in modern times, when people are skeptic of gurus and have better means of collecting evidence. Guenon and all before him lived in easier times. Remember that Yates wrote a good meditation guide.
Maybe he's so free of suffering he bypasses such minor thing like Sila with ease lol

what culadasa's taste in whores could be like? similar to her wife or quite the opposite?

nobody expected the guy to be perfect, but from perfect to "cheating on my wife with 10 whores by stealing Patreon bucks" there's a big stretch, the book claims that mindfulness produces benefits in terms of compassion way before you get anywhere near enlightenment, if he is wrong about that the system doesn't seem to stand on solid ground

I’m basically doing meditation for brain benefits I’ve heard about. Now I’m reading this, I have no interest in reducing suffering or shit like that. What does meditation actually do

well, who knows, there were some supposed benefits of mindfulness on the "scientific western" camp of buddhism, but at this point they all seem deflated and the only thing that remains is that "if you do it long enough and you are lucky maybe you dissolve your ego and stop suffering"

Fuck dissolving my ego, I like it. I can be kind and compassionate while still having a self concept

No, no, you don't get it. Everything is impermanent. Be compassionate for humanity, not for humans, how else are you going to cheat on your wife with a dozen whores? You must meditate some more to reach these insights.

SHINZEN YOUNG PLEASE SAVE ME

Of course you love your ego, you're built like that. We live in a social world and being fully invested in how people perceive you is what makes you effective. We're not wearing masks, we are masks. Think of the butterfly with eyes on its wings. It doesn't question the eyes or their effectiveness, they're just there when they fold out their wings.

made me kek, is he clean so far?

could be worst, could be trannies

afaik

what cult to join now?

>some hardcore theravada monks just do straight dry vipassana (insight) meditation without all the compassion crap. they wind up like Yea Forumstards, it's nuts -- google it, they laugh at the wagies and masturbate on corpses all day.
Is this true?

To be honest no Eastern organisation would hold to their standards like this either. It's in a sweet spot of being clearly established but not so well-established.

>just spout completely wrong and infantile shit, and refuse to study the matter
cringe indeed

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Come talk about Dharma with us!

discord.gg/az3CXnJ

>To be honest no Eastern organisation would hold to their standards like this either
Hindu monastic orders that still live the same possessionless lifestyle that they did a thousand years ago like the Dashnami Sampradaya do

>You are supposed to use these meditation techniques to remove "unwanted noise" from your mind so you can focus it towards using it for the important things: Life plans, goals, etc etc.
I'm no expert, but that does not sound right at all.

CIA honeypot

Be your own light.

Pretty much.

lol, feels bad falling for this meme

discord.gg/az3CXnJ

say no to estrogen

It's just one of the many uses it has. You can use meditation to remove mental defilements (kilesa: lobha, dosa, moha) and work towards nibbana, which is what buddhism teaches, or you can use it as a tool for mundane gain which would be abhiñña (psychic powers) or material gain like material things, experiences in this world, etc.

If you concentrate in the reasons why sense pleasures are short lived, their drawbacks and etc you are bound to reduce and eventually extinguish the greed (lobha) to obtain these pleasures or things you want in this world and you don't need them anymore. This is, in my opinion, the actual technique that the Buddha taught.

Alternatively, you can "meditate" on how to obtain these sense pleasures. You concentrate on them, think out how to obtain them through the law of cause and effect, convince yourself you can obtain them if you work hard enough (knowing you can do something isn't enough, you need enough "emotional momentum" to actually carry out the task from beggining to end), etc etc.

Notice how both of these forms of meditation are NOT based on clearing one's own mind and concentrating in your breath or an external object. This is a form of meditation that actually REQUIRES THOUGHT. The point is, that this thought is CONCENTRATED THOUGHT.

Just because you are able to shut down your ability to experience the drawbacks of the mental defilements by concentrating in your breath, or the present moment or whatever, that doesn't mean they aren't there. The moment you snap out of your concentrated state of mind (which takes mental energy) the defilements (delusion, greed, anger) will come out again. You need concentrated thought to purify your mind. This is why so many people have negative experiences from meditation and have to spend so much time and they rarely get permanent improvements on their mind. You are denying a part of yourself, as if it didn't exist, whe it is in fact there. Only forms of meditation which use concentrated thought can purify the mind and leave a permanent positive change and, ultimately, with the definitive removal of all defilements, allow you to attain nibbana, if that is what you want.

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Tell me what those sorts of monks are called. I'm asking so that I can learn more about them.

I've always felt that the spiritual feats claimed by the "sages" of Hinduism/Buddhism/etc. were fake. The cultures these religions arise from strike me as particularly susceptible to charlatanry.

I think the preoccupation with avoiding suffering is effeminate and this is why Buddhism so often attracts a particular sort of western man. The either don't understand or outright reject the Christian notion that suffering has certain salvific properties when embraced and this might be because they were originally hedonistic. Either way it's not masculine.

Why do Buddhists talk so evil? They all have the speaking manner of executioners, haughty and apathetic. You can tell who is a Buddhist by who writes intolerably. I wouldn't mind if they were terrible in every respect so long as their speech wasn't veiled with such an ugly sense of arrogance. I like Buddhism until I am reminded of the soulless, arrogant automatons called Buddhists.

>Christians don't claim to be perfecti
they just claim to have perfect knowledge of god and claim to have the exclusive truth that no one else does. every single denomination, all perfectly enlightened and the only people who aren't going to hell

>Our priests raping children isn't a theological problem ;)
Catholicism is evil

You are full of fucking bullshit, but you already knew that.

Buddhism is a demonic trick, just like every religion other than Christianity. Hard to accept but that's the way it is.

>Every religion other than mine is evil

This. My pastor said that Buddhism, Hinduism, climate change, etc are all interesting to read about but ultimately all lead you on the path to hell. All I need is the Bible.

>I'm a pluralist baby and everything has to all be okay and God can't exclusively covenant with only particular people because it's mean :(

Nice meme

Prove it actually happened, faggot.

No one likes or believes you, kike.

The resurrection is the proof that it happened.

shit b8

Historical proofs are incapable of dealing with supernatural events, I'm afraid.
>“Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude you and revile you, and cast out your name as evil, on account of the Son of man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets."

>they hate our freedoms
kek

No, they hate God.

Kikes go to hell though

>There is historical proof he came back to life and then disappeared

Where?

When you speak of Jews it depends on what you mean. The original Judaism is now Christianity. The believing Gentiles were grafted into the tree of the patriarchs and the unbelieving Jews were cut off (Rom. 11:17-24). The thing that exists now as Judaism is not the same religion.
You misunderstood what I meant. The statement "he came back to life" cannot be demonstrated historically as it is a supernatural event and history is a materialist science. The discipline is not capable of dealing with such a fact.

Then how is it fact you fucking idiot?

>#metoo'd

C'est la vie.

FaItH iS FaCt!

I'm not sure where you think the contradiction is. Christ's resurrection is something that occurred; to say that Christ was resurrected is a true statement. Validation by human science is not a prerequisite of truth.

...

Thanks for the (You).

I'm not sure where you think the contradiction is. The Lord Krishna's conversation with Arjuna is something that occurred; to say that Arjuna spoke with Krishna is a true statement. Validation by human science is not a prerequisite of truth.

>Christianity has any chanced of being the truth straight from God when it along with Judaism are just rip-offs of Zoroastrianism
lol

You're welcome to believe that if you wish, though you don't. Do you disagree with me and think that the discipline of history can prove a supernatural occurrence? I imagine if someone attempted to provide evidence for such a thing you would default to a natural explanation, as that is the method of the discipline, so I'm not sure what your problem is.

You're welcome to believe in the resurrection if you wish, though you don't.

Have you abandoned the point which you were originally disputing? I'd be surprised if you disagreed with me.

Wouldn't the religion that has lasted the longest with the least amount of change be the "true" religion?

Whatever you want, atheist.

Something like that would be extremely difficult to demonstrate.

Is it considered a sin to read religious works outside of your own religion?

Far less difficult than proving that the resurrection actually took place.

Yes, see

Sorry, I forgot for a moment that this is a thread about Buddhism, etc., so you may indeed believe such a thing. Your silly arguing about historicity made me think I was talking to an atheist (as is more usual for me), for whom a statement like yours would be nothing more than a rhetorical maneuver.
As I stated, proving the resurrection is impossible, so yes.

Only if you believe them you fucking moron.

No

he wasn't a buddhist monk, so i don't see how this is a problem

>Near Death Experiences tend to contain themes from ones own religious beliefs

HMMMMMMM

This

You believe (as in faith) that the bodily resurrection of Jesus literally took place in reality at a specific point in time, right? I'm not asking you for evidence here, I want to make sure I'm clear on what you mean. You believe the resurrection was an actual literal event, despite the inability to """prove""" it, right?

still i'm not going to take spiritual guidance from a literal drunk

I believe that Jesus was literally, bodily resurrected from the dead, as a real event occurring within time, yes.

Nothing in history can be proved, but that doesn't mean there isn't a good reason to believe X historical event happened. If Jesus is who he said he was and really rise from the dead then that would mean Christianity is probably true. You should treat the gospels as you would any other ancient document, that is, as a merely human set of historical accounts which could either be true, partially true, or completely fabricated.

We have four separate historical accounts of an event and they agree with each other on some crucial facts. Jesus was a real person and claimed to be God, he was crucified, and his followers genuinely believed he was telling the truth.

Now because Jesus was crucified, it's reasonable to believe he really died. He was placed in a guarded tomb because it was in the best interest of the Jewish and Roman authorities to make sure that the body didn't disappear. We know for sure the body truly disappeared because the Jews accused the Christians of stealing the body. Jesus later appeared and interacted with multiple people at different times and places.

There's been a few attempts at explaining these facts. You could say the followers who interacted with Jesus after the crucifixion hallucinated, but that's not how hallucinations work. It also fails to explain the conversion of Paul was not previously a follower of Jesus and actually worked to prosecute Christians until Jesus appeared to him.

Some would say that the followers of Jesus made up the post crucifixion appearances in an effort to gain power or money but that also doesn't work because the followers prosecuted and martyred, and Christians as a group didn't really see any sort of power for hundreds of years later. There's also the problem of Paul that remains unexplained.

The one explanation that fits all the facts is that Jesus actually is who he said he was. The bible, when taken as a merely human document, shows that Christ not only rose from the dead, but that he established a church built on the apostles. The successors of the apostles, or the popes and bishops who inherited the apostles' spiritual authority. This church then had the authority to pronounce which human writings also had god as their author but that's beside the point.

There's quite a few books out there that make the historical argument for the resurrection of Jesus and they go into much greater detail than I can while also defending the historicity of the gospels. The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Habermas is a good place to start.

Proving once again that Thai Forest tradition is the only legit form of Buddhism.

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Christian user here. I do think you can make a "case," so to speak. But I think this is primarily something of apologetic value (i.e. demonstrating that our beliefs are reasonable) and not historical value. History simply cannot confirm this. As you've stated, there have been "attempts at explaining these facts," because history is fundamentally materialist. No matter what evidence you present, historically, it will be "explained" in a materialist fashion. It's like asking for the biological evidence of the soul. And by no means am I denigrating Christianity because of this; I think it is a defect of "history," which causes people to believe in false natural "explanations" rather than true events.

aesthetic. any good books on this? do you need an actual forest to practice or an spiritual forest is enough?

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The "Forest" part just refers to the geographical origin of the movement within Thailand, you don't actually have to be in a forest to practice it. I don't know about books within the tradition but there are a lot of free Dhamma talks available online from monks.

Forgot link
amaravati.org/audio/

I reject any sort of notion that history must be intercepted in a materialistic fashion in order for it to be true history. If you a priori rule out supernatural or immaterial claims before you begin considering the claims Christianity makes then you're not giving them a fair shot and you're potentially cutting yourself off from the truth. If somebody wants to go that route I can't stop them but it only means they're being intellectually unprudent. Not everybody will accept truth.

>implying anyone in this thread has reached ahranahntuji status
>implying anyone who isn't asian can reach nibbajhuddhi englightenment
>implying vasaryajhannidu meditation is not orthodox
>implying sruti vishmurtijundi is not a valid teacher
>implying i have not read the muddibbukujinanavasayana

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I agree with you. I'm just telling you how the discipline works. It can't be used to prove Christianity or any other supernatural claim.

He said in a lecture that the point of going to a guru is to find out that he is no better than you.

Look! Its a 'youre from reddit, haha xD' poster!

As I said though, it's not meant to be a proof. A proof is something that a rational person must accept as true. My argument is merely a good reason to believe Christianity is true. A rational person could remain completely agnostic and not accept any explanation of the historical facts.

As far as history goes I certainly agree that many historians treat history in purely materialistic terms but I think this is a mistake. Not every aspect in our present universe or reality can be reduced to the material so there's no reason to suppose that our history can be.

I took those for actual names until the last one.

>What living figures can one turn to for genuine spiritual guidance?

evoke entities like Lilith, Naamah, Lucifer, Belial, they´re wiser than any human being, straight to the point

>they´re wiser than any human being
Demons are indeed good at deceiving people.

sure that can be one of the disadvantages but if they have a favorable opinion about you as a person, they can help you with spiritual guidance

evoke them
treat them like a good friend
give them offerings
also helps that you should be honest with them but also with youself

Buddhist and Hindu words all look like spaghetti nonsense to me.

so meditation gets you laid?
gonna start up again

he was paying for it, no need to be enlightened to buy sex

it was nice to see how happy all the bugmen were that they got to chant their mantra """sex work is real work""" while trying to defend how their teacher was still totally enlightened while cheating with whores

it's not avoiding suffering but coming to terms with it - accepting it. Wholeheartedly accepting suffering until it becomes as normal as changes in the weather. Monks in the East regularly stay at charnel grounds over night so they can watch as fresh corpses decay and burn, in order to come to terms with the inevitability of death. Of course, this is hardly taught in watered down Western mindfulness, but mindfulness of death is a core practice in Eastern Buddhism.

Ajahn Chad

Your local pastor

Trivial, emptiness isn't nothingness. It's a state of boundless openness and equanimity, it exists more so than your normally perceived identity or consciousness. This is why there's a difference between ego and Self, the whole doctrine of anatta is around achieving this flexibility rather than a dissolution of identity. This is explicated more in traditions like Vajrayana/Tantra.

A lot of what this guy is going through can be put well in those "Dark Night of the Soul" terms. HE is experiencing a lot of the "near-enemies" (facsimiles of Buddhist virtues). Dullness as opposed to equanimity, apathy as opposed to non-attachment, nothingness as opposed to emptiness.

Everyone here please look into Reginald Ray, granted his teacher (Chogyam Trungpa) had issues but the ideas in Tibetan Buddhist traditions and Daoism have been much more helpful to me than anything else I've come across in that hemisphere.

I need to start reading Evola, Guenon and Schuon.

>facts
>facts
>facts
>facts
uh huh

>granted his teacher (Chogyam Trungpa) had issues
kek, that's an understatement

>If you a priori rule out supernatural or immaterial claims before you begin considering the claims Christianity makes then you're not giving them a fair shot and you're potentially cutting yourself off from the truth.
Christians do this with literally every other religious tradition. All Christians are atheists.

I'll admit, it's hindered me from really reading anything by Trungpa. People here are going on about Yates but he didn't fuck or bully students to my knowledge or die of cirrhosis before 50. Ray though seems to be very regulated and down to earth though.

What do you mean? I have never seen a Buddhist provide an argument to believe Buddhism is true. I have only been told that Buddhism is something that must be experienced or intuited to be true which isn't really a reason to believe at all. This has been the case with all the major religious traditions that I've examined. None of them make the sort of arguments that Christianity does.

at least he looks based

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Yeah, because they don't need to. Christianity is absolutely dependent on the material historicity of its claims. No other religion except maybe Scientology and other meme cults require that.

white piggu go home!

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U.G. Krishnamurti

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Christianity doesn't require anyone to examine and accept the historical arguments in order to be a Christian. They can experience the rituals and intuit the religion to be true but that wouldn't be a very good reason to believe Christianity is true for the same reason it isn't a good reason to believe Buddhism is true.

Buddhism is dependent on belief that the Buddha existed and achieved Buddhahood (and you can too). This is also a material historical matter of faith.

Never forget:

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Trips confirm

Thanks for the recommendation, user. I'm gonna read this and bang some hookers.
I could use some advice though. I'm not afraid to tell my wife about it. Does this make me more enlightened than Yates and mean I need higher level teaching?

>Christianity doesn't require the historical reality of the original sin in the garden of eden
>Christianity doesn't require that god came down as human and died to redeem the original sin
>Christianity doesn't require the historic reality last supper
>Christianity doesn't require the literal(historical,material) resurrection and aparition to Paul

You don't need a historical argument to believe any of those are true. A Christian can treat their religion the same as a Buddhist does theirs and merely intuit those doctrines to be true. While both the Buddhist and Christian can do this, my point is that this intuition is not a good reason to believe either Christianity or Buddhism is true. In the end, what distinguishes Christianity from every other religious tradition is that they are able to make historical arguments.

any resources for skillful means?

damm dude has a whole retreat for meditators
youtube.com/watch?v=9_7sTiQ-jIM

based
going back to TMI

Christianity's claim of unique and exclusive truth is thus dependent on certain specific historical claim. It's uniqueness is dependent on its material claims. Whether or not Krishna and Arjuna literally spoke to each other in person 5000 years ago is not relevant to the spiritual truths and wisdom contained in the Bhagavad Gita. The sotierology of upanishadic and vedic wisdom is not dependent on historical claims. Christian salvation, however, absolutely is dependent on historical claims it makes. If there was no literal bodily resurrection, there is no salvation. Without proof, there's no point in believing.

Same can happen with monks

Attached: Sogyal.jpg (400x400, 30K)

It is not the in the blood of snow niggers to be capable Buddhists. Stick to your overly Faustian interpretations of "Christianity" where you can ask for forgiveness for any evil deed from that dead Jew on a stick. You have always been an immensely smart, yet wholly depraved, race.

I like this
I like you
I want bliss
Be my guru?

AHHHH HELP ME ROB BURBEA

What books do you recommend to learn this type of concentrated thought meditation?

Meditation is the practice of death
I thought this was understood from the get go
Everything in moderation

Lol what an incoherent post

Based r/samharris poster.

>Buddhism is a cult
It is a cult full of mumbo-jumbo BS.