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Is it bad that I essentially read the Iliad as the tragedy of Hector?
Bentley Allen
Juan Cruz
Hector was traditionally seen as the antagonist
Henry Lopez
Maybe, but I would argue that he is just as major of a character as Achilles. And with so many important works of history seeing Hector as the more noble warrior of the story, I don't think it is wrong for me to see it as the tragedy of Hector. The Romans essentially saw Hector as a hero. This is apparent in the Aenid. There is Dante's Inferno where Hector is in the outer layer of hell where noble non-christians/virtuous pagans are. Meanwhile Achilles is in a more inner circle of hell (Lust). Shakespeare also portrays Hector as a tragic figure in Troilus and Cressida with the Greeks as kinda bad guys. Overall, I think this is a valid interpretation.
James Cook
I'll just leave this here:
>Achilles & Hector - Fight to the death above the abyss
Landon Carter
I always sympathize with the bad guy in every story for some reason, with very few exceptions. They are always more interesting characters
Nathaniel Harris
Did you cry when he left his son and wife for the last time?
Jaxson Cruz
No, but it was one of the best moments of the story.
Angel Myers
That's a beautiful amphora, not gonna lie.
Jace Davis
Very cool
Kayden Peterson
This there evidence to support this? I mean it's a greek story and hes the not-Greek but it really shows almost literally every character acting like insane assholes at every point. Even the gods themselves dont know who to support. I have a feeling that the ancient Greeks really didnt attach morality to their stories that way they did post-socrates/christ.
Carter Brooks
>tfw you realize Odysseus is actually the bad guy
Austin Williams
Everyone’s kind of a bad guy by modern standards. Except Hector who’s stuck in a shit situation because of Paris, all he can do is defend his city despite him knowing the Greeks were right to attack. He’s by far the most heroic of the characters in the modern sense. By our standards Achilles comes off childish and Agamemnon as a bad commander (although that’s slightly implied in the Illiad too)
Lucas Bell
But Paris is the bad guy and a silly boy.
Gavin Reyes
I think it's important to keep in mind that this is a War story. The heroes here are heroic in a martial sense. Achilles, Odysseus, Diomedes, Aias, and the rest of them are not good people. They are good warriors. To translate them into modern terms, these guys are the type of people who would win a Victoria Cross, not the type of people we would consider virtuous or heroic.
John Evans
The trouble is that Hector comes off as both a good warrior and virtuous and heroic. His final tragic end is that of a man who goes beyond reason and accepts fighting a demigod, knowing full well he will die, but what choice is there?
Jack Jones
>wtf you can't be angry at your enemies it's bad
Chase Ross
>not reading it as the glory of Diomedes
Adam Butler
Hector is unquestionably the tragic hero of the poem. Dies and his child is thrown from the battlements because of his devotion to Troy.
Sebastian Evans
all because of his asshole little brother.
Kevin Allen
>Hector realises that Athena tricked him and he's about to die and tries to get Achilles to agree to let the Trojans bury him but Achilles says fuck you
Jace Campbell
no homer sympathised with hector. achilles was the real villain of the piece
Josiah Wilson
>be Agamemnon
>get into a war so your bro can get his wife back
>10 years later finally get to go home
>find out your wife's been cheating on you
>wife kills you while you're taking a bath
Agamemnon was the real tragic character here
Christian Brown
it was the gods' fault
that also happens to every trojan soldier
Dylan Perez
you are talking out of your ass mate
Daniel Martin
of course agamemnon was also a weak, truculent, greedy, lying, murderous, boastful, irresolute busybody who almost always did the wrong thing.
Easton Anderson
>killed his daughter as a sacrifice
>somehow the tragic hero
fucking moron
Eli White
i've done this my whole life
Thomas Reed
This is unironically my favourite moment in literature
Samuel Jackson
>unironically
oh yeah you're clearly full of integrity
Julian Turner
>By our standards Achilles comes off childish
Which isn't really right. Instead, he should be seen as an embodiment of unyielding virtue--to the point where he withdraws from war to uphold personal justice. It's Greek heroism pushed until it breaks.
Julian Robinson
Achilles was angry at his commander tho.
Cameron Price
even semi-barbaric homer doesn't ask us to approve of achilles sulking in his tent heartlessly watching the massacre of his comrades.
when he's offered back everything agamemnon took from him & more he still refuses to fight. he has the problem of his mortality to worry about.
Michael Clark
But Achilles himself is standing up for his own personal rights and demands justice from the gods themselves, not dissimilar to how someone would act today. He sits the eat out until he is forced to put his rights aside as honor (avenging the loss of his friend) takes precedence. He is not evil. One could say selfish yes, but there is still the part of him refusing to help someone who denied him what's his
True. I think this is made even more clear in the Odyssey. Odysseus' speech to the people after he throws a discus and smashes everyone else's records makes it clear that he is of a different caliber. It is partly why I love the Odyssey so much. The new people on Ithaca and elsewhere are children compared to the men who fought the Trojan War. This is further shown when Odysseus sends the suitors to the house of the dead and Agamemnon doesn't care about the suitors, but is overjoyed for Odysseus. They were brothers in arms and clearly very rough people
Ryan Gray
yeah, no. Don’t listen to undergrads user.
Really, you should be reading it as the Comedy of Achilles and if you can’t see why then blame your slave morality.
Grayson Lee
epic story bro
Levi Hill
baz luhrman should remake the iliad and the odyseey but in a modern setting like how he did with romeo and juliet
Brandon Martin
Homer didn't create the Iliad, user, he just wrote it down.
Tyler Johnson
odd hill to die on
Michael Cruz
>But in a modern setting
The Greeks and the Trojans are some arabs fighting a civil war in somethingstan, America, China, and Russia are the Gods, and the heroes get to call in airstrikes in lieu of divine intervention. Everything else stays the same.