Edith has to be the most wretched, infuriating character I've ever witnessed in a book

Stoner didn't rape her.
She's a wretched psychotic bitch, and she brought nothing but misery on everyone's life around her.

>She's a wretched psychotic bitch, and she brought nothing but misery on everyone's life around her
She can still be a tragic character. Try to step outside of Stoner's clueless mind and imagine WHY she's such a bitch, and what her life was like.

Yeah, he didn't rape her, especially considering she ravenously pursues him sexually once her aunt convinces her to have a child. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to fix anything and may have made it worse. Edith is just a case of a woman not knowing what she wants, so she just kind of takes it out on Stoner unfortunately.
Her life is tragic because she agrees to marry someone who she doesn't love. How is that anyone's fault but her own? Even her father is skeptical of the prospects of the life she could have with Stoner but he allows it because it's what SHE seems to want. She is super ambivalent about EVERYTHING.

>If you are opinionated and have personal integrity, being shackled to the approval of others is its own prison.
I already know everything you just said, but it really is like an addiction, you can't stop even though you know it's bad for you.

>Her life is tragic because she agrees to marry someone who she doesn't love. How is that anyone's fault but her own? Even her father is skeptical of the prospects of the life she could have with Stoner but he allows it because it's what SHE seems to want. She is super ambivalent about EVERYTHING.
Not only this. Stoner and Edith were both extremely ambivalent about what they wanted, and were blinded by naivety at a young age, but Stoner was acquiescence and passive about literally everything Edith did. Things which Edith did would have had me literally throwing chairs, and the fact that Stoner just bowed his head and ignored it is 1, a failing on his part, 2, a testament to his tremendous stoicism, which he displays throughout his whole life.

Well, all you have to do is mind over matter it. It's the same way that people start exercising, or meditating, or eating right, or doing good in school. At first it seems inconceivable because it isn't "part of your identity", and you acquiesce because it's something you've never done, and to start now would forsake the unfulfilled person you've been in the past. This cycle of self deprecation is what perpetuates any bad habit. But when you start having good habits, almost immediately it just becomes part of who you are, because there is no essential self, and the more you do it the more absurd it would seem to think otherwise.

>Her life is tragic because she agrees to marry someone who she doesn't love. How is that anyone's fault but her own?
Her life was probably tragic well before that, it's pretty obvious she was already fucked in the head when she met Stoner. I'm not saying she's blameless, I just think she deserves sympathy. As describes, Stoner is mighty flawed too, but since the book is told from his perspective he gets all the sympathy. I think it's unfair and dumb.

I love you and wish you great fortune in life user

Right back at you.

>
Yeah, he didn't rape her, especially considering she ravenously pursues him sexually once her aunt convinces her to have a child.
>if she consents even once, it means she always consents, even retroactively
cringe and creep-pilled

This is stupid fucking women logic. If the woman is in love with her husband, they have no problem with being woken up by being fucked. She doesn't even tell him to stop. She just mumbles shit and cries. Do you really think Stoner, the spineless baby, wouldn't stop if she told him too? He doesn't even try to comfort her when she tells him to stay away that's how obedient he is to her.
I never said she consented retroactively, that's you and your shit woman logic again. It's just clearly moronic to deny someone of sex and decry rape and then literal weeks later be all over them, literally TEARING off their clothes to get them to fuck you. If she was raped one would think that she wouldn't want to continue to have sex, let alone INITIATE SEX, with her alleged rapist???
Since you're clearly a woman, can you tell me why women are like this? Why do the majority of women watch rape fetish porn? Why do women like to be "ravaged" by barbaric men?

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Abandon thread everyone, the retard has arrived.

>I’m too stupid to tell if the person I’m fucking wants to be fucked, the post
You are a public menace.

>Goes back to have sex with her "rapist" and justifies it
Again, why are women like this?

Why do traumatized people do irrational things? Gee I don’t know.

>If I don't want to have sex, you just need to KNOW. I'm not going to TELL you to stop!
Women were a mistake. Go to some containment thread with butterfly you wench.

>Women are a mistake because sometimes they don’t react violently when a trusted person wakes them up in the middle of the night to rape them
Christ you need therapy or something. Edith is a bitch but Stoner was in the wrong here, as bad as I feel for him for having his affections unrequited.

Dude, it’s incredibly easy to tell if a girl wants to have sex with you at that very moment nonverbally. They’ll let you know by escalating or stonewalling. How hard is it to read very simple body language?

She let's him do it MULTIPLE TIMES, and then STILL goes back to fuck him ravenously! Stoner was in the wrong from the start with her. He basically sees her and goes "muh dick" and decides to marry her based on looks alone. Edith is impossible to deal with considering she never voices her opinion, she never tries to fix anything in her life, and then whines that it's broken. All she want's to do is complain, every half-assed "improvement" that she tries to get to fix her life always leaves her empty and then she wonders why. It's pathetic. Stoner even has to be a mother to her child because she's too much of a moody bitch.
Good luck trying that in court if your ex retroactively accuses you of rape.

Just because Edith was bad at asserting herself doesn’t mean it’s right to take advantage of her, holy shit. How many levels of autistic entitlement are you on?

Stop putting words in my mouth you brain dead faggot! You're strawmanning the fuck out of me! Stoner is a weak, timid man that shouldn't have married Edith, and Edith is a precocious ambivalent woman that should have never married Stoner. That's it! I even admitted that he half-raped her! She allowed herself to be taken advantage of! She can't not voice her opinion and then expect it to still be respected! If she really thought it was rape, she would have divorced him instead of coaxing him to have a child with her and move into a house they couldn't afford! She clearly loves him on some level, but she has a bizarre way of showing it, and she constantly pushes him away for no reason.

For me, it’s the Judge from Blood Meridian

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She's a tragic character but that doesn't make her sympathetic or morally permissible. Yes, her childhood and entire life was obviously a shitshow, but that doesn't give her the right to completely fuck up Stoner's relationship with their daughter or ruin her daughter's life outright. She was in a shitty situation but instead of trying to make the best of it she just decides to take everyone else in her personal life down with her. And in the end it amounts to absolutely nothing, even she seems to understand that she ruined what could have been a good life for both of them. She's almost entirely irredeemable.

>Jeez my wife just lies there motionless with her eyes closed whenever we fuck and then she talks to herself and cries....maybe she doesn't want to have sex with me? Nah, she didn't verbally say no so I think its fine.

>If she really thought it was rape, she would have divorced him instead of coaxing him to have a child
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Edith's character. She's exactly the type of damaged codependent bitch who WOULD hang around her husband even if he did rape her. Coaxing him into having a child and moving into a house beyond their financial abilities so she can slowly pick away at his entire life is exactly the type of thing she would do if she believed she was raped.

This is what Stoner was probably saying to himself! BOTH of them are in the wrong here!

Perhaps you're right, but I don't think that she intentionally does so. She does love him on SOME level, considering that there is some fondness there. For example, how she acts around guests. Their relationship reminds me of a lot of marriages that I know of. Mostly loveless pairs that act mostly as roommates and financial partners.

I think that Edith comes to love Stoner very late in their life together. I think at a certain point she begins to develop an understanding of him and realizes that he genuinely was only trying to do the right thing in their relationship.

But before that I don't think she has any fond feelings towards Stoner. I don't think she has any real concept of love at all. I think her performance in front of guests was exactly that, a performance to project an image of normality and success. Inwardly I think she resents Stoner for the majority of their relationship.

>I even admitted that he half-raped her!
He full-on raped her.
>She allowed herself to be taken advantage of!
I agree that one should always stand up for themselves to ensure the best outcomes for themselves.
>She can't not voice her opinion and then expect it to still be respected
Yeah... I guess when you’re dealing with an autistic, entitled predator then all bets are off if you don’t scream bloody murder when you’re suddenly roused in the middle of the night.
>If she really thought it was rape, she would have divorced him instead of coaxing him to have a child with her and move into a house they couldn't afford!
People didn’t really get divorced back then. It was a different time. What makes you think she’d be assertive enough to serve her husband divorce papers?

Yeah, you're right. The prose does describe it as a performance and a facade. I think the resentment is unfair though since she was always too ambivalent towards him and never tried to live the life that she actually wanted to live, and just accepted, and complained about, the one she received.
>You can rape someone without them telling you to stop
Wew lad. Literally the FIRST thing they teach you in an anti rape class is to scream "NO!" to make the situation perfectly clear and to make the rape fully apparent. Otherwise, it can be argued in court that they perpetrator didn't know. In Stoner's case, that was likely the situation, hence HALF-RAPE. Again, do you think the spineless lout would have kept going if she told him to stop? He was obedient to a fault with everything she told him to do!
>People didn’t really get divorced back then.
Do you really think that if she wrote to her parents about what he did that they would still be together? Maybe that's why she turned to her aunt for advice, but if that's the case then fuck her aunt considering the "solution" was to have a kid with the bastard.

Someone should make a Virgin William Stoner vs. Chad Gordon Finch

>HALF-RAPE
What do you mean? Did she only give half of her consent?

>You can rape someone without them telling you to stop
Of course you can. Have you ever heard of Rohypnol?

Pretty much
Since you just decided to ignore half my post to make an extremely low effort reply, I'm just going to reiterate.
>In Stoner's case, that was likely the situation, hence HALF-RAPE. Again, do you think the spineless lout would have kept going if she told him to stop? He was obedient to a fault with everything she told him to do!

Most marriages are like that

How does one only give half of their consent? Either you consent or you don’t. And of course you can still be raped without saying no. Date rape wouldn’t be a thing otherwise. For Christ’s sake you are an entitled creep.

By not blatantly resisting and then returning to and initiating sex with their alleged "rapist" multiple times in order to conceive a child with them. Not sure what's super hard to follow here. According to your definition I was raped by a girl that I met on Tinder who used me for sex. If anyone is an entitled creep it's people like her.

Not true. Either you consent or you don’t. Even if you were used for sex and didn’t like it, if it’s consensual, then you weren’t raped. It was just a bad idea for you.

How can you know yourself whether you consent or not? Using Freudian terms, what if your ego wants to consent, but your superego resists? And you end up consenting to sex verbally because you give in to your ego, but superego is still saying no. How can you give consent when it is impossible to get a definitive consensus on the issue even in your own mind?

>Freudian pseudoscience
opinion discarded

>Even if you were used for sex and didn’t like it, if it’s consensual, then you weren’t raped.
This stupid bitch is dismantling her own argument without realizing it! It's clear that you aren't willing to listen to people rationally and just want to shout rape everywhere so there's no point in arguing with you any further. Here's you last (You) from me.
Based, look at the coping reply. Even IF Freud is pseudoscience, (debatable) it is still impossible to know yourself, or anything, completely

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Literature is a pseudoscience as much as psychoanalysis is. And nobody calls it that, which questions whether psychoanalysis should be considered a science at all, thus rendering the term "pseudoscience" useless. Do you even know what ego and superego mean? And you think that they are just bullshit and that the mind is in full consensus over every issue it is processing all the time?

>Even IF Freud is pseudoscience, (debatable)
and the thing is, psychoanalysis shouldn't even be treated as a "science", because it doesn't try to explain what for example neuroscience tries to explain. They are totally different fields, and the freudian distinction of id,ego and superego is just an abstraction of the way the mind works

My argument still stands strong. It doesn’t matter if an event turned out to be unpleasant. If you consented to it, then that’s too bad. Practice better judgement next time (and stop justifying rape... either you consent or you don’t, there’s no halfway ground).

Literature isn’t a pseudoscience lmfao. It’s not even science and doesn’t pretend to be. I can’t think of something as proudly unscientific as science besides literature (and that’s not a bad thing).

>Literature isn’t a pseudoscience lmfao. It’s not even science and doesn’t pretend to be.
that's the point dummie

Then it’s not a pseudoscience since it never claimed to be scientific. Stop throwing around words that you don’t know, pseud.

Just stop arguing with her. She skims over every post and then makes stupid, circular, straw man arguments. She's basically butterfly but without the tripcode.

>she
I’m a guy. I don’t make circular, straw man arguments, you do, and I don’t entertain them for a second without shooting your bullshit down. You have yet to come up with a coherent concept of “half consent” lmfao.

It’s simple. It doesn’t matter your frame of mind or how you feel about something as long as you have the presence of mind to make decisions. You either give consent, or you don’t. If you’re not sound of mind, then you can’t give consent period.

It used to be that women would argue against this concept so they could claim that they were raped after having consensual sex with somebody of low social status and feeling embarrassed about it in hindsight. Now you’re using it as an excuse to justify the *actual* rape of a person. Man this world is full of retarded psychos.

Stoner made the mistake of not putting any effort into his relationship with her. He didn't bother until he met that other chick he had an affair with. Stoner is at fault for all of it. He pressed for a relationship because he saw no other options and didn't follow his heart due to social pressure. His only act of defiance ruined his career. Academia died anyway later on no matter if he stood his ground.

>Goes completely rigid, pulls away when she can, start weeping as he's forcing himself on you
>How was he meant to know he was raping her dude?

Have consensual sex.

half-consensual*

Yeah, this. Dont go all /pol/ on us