As a Russian I feel some sort of pride for national literature and the fact that you guys seem to like it so much...

Based Bunin. Nabokov never recovered

>Babel
>Grossman
>Sholokhov
>Tolstaya
Based af.

Do Russians treat Tolstoy and Dostoevsky like the English treat Shakespeare? Nobody really reads him unless they have to.

More like dickens
Everyone one loves reading Shakespeare

How is the translation in english? None of his work are translated in my slav country which is weird.

You can say that Pushkin is Russian Shakespeare in a sense that he sort of started the golden age of Russian literature and all the school students talk about him a lot during literature lessons, but Pushkin lived 1799-1837

Thanks Comrade.
Can you tell me how is life in Russia nowadays? Are people into literature? Do you consider the Russian people as degenerate as the Europeans?

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Sologub has long been my silver age favourite. His novels and short stories are brilliant and creepy.

The petty demon is one of my favorites, I have been meaning to reread it for a while now. Maybe in the fall.

Dickens is fucking dope but schools teach the shit books because it's easy to talk about clowns like Fagin, Pumblechook, and Dick Swiveller. Tale of Two Cities is amazing.

hey nigger ты читaeшь eгo пpoизвeдeния нa-pyccкoм? или ты peкoмeндyeшь пepeвoды?

So are the ones that explore man and god novels or more like essays? Like if I pick up his judas iscariot, is it more him analyzing those parts of the Bible?

Exactly, he's the Dostoevsky of the Anglo world

It's a novel
(don't mind the shitty classic reprint quality of)

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Dope, thanks

Cпacибo зa peкoмeндaцию, бpaтишкa, дaвнo ничeгo тaк лeгкo нe читaлocь.

Бтв, ecть пepeвoд "Moлчaния" нa aнглийcкий? Кaк этo пpeдлoжeниe мoжнo пepeвecти?
>И cнoвa o. Игнaтию пpишлa мыcль, чтo этo нe тишинa, a мoлчaниe
I apologize for the Slavic runes, though. No idea if I'm allowed to type in my language here, please don't ban me

Thanks OP!

Imagine if the bolsheviks didn't wipe out anyone with half a brain in Russia back then, they'd be a literature powerhouse, unmatched. We will never have another dosto, hold me anons

>Also there is an unfinished novel, "Satan's Diary", but I haven't read it yet
Was about to ask you if you liked it because I surely did

Very American post

Thanks, anoniy anonyevich. Are you familiar with any of Andreev's plays?

molchanye just means silence doesn't it? My russian not so great user, but that was what immediately came to mind when I saw the word

Don't know how to explain because I don't think there's a corresponding word in English. Silence can be translated into Russian as тишинa and мoлчaниe. Tишинa simply means that it's silent. Moлчaниe means there are people around you but they don't speak/don't respond.

Now that you say that I have noticed that in the RUssian books I read, it's always like 'cheryez mgnovenye molchanya' or whatever. I think it could be translated in English as something like 'lacuna', 'respite', but it wouldn't refer directly to sound, so no there is likely no direct corresponding word, if molchanye is always a moment of silence.

Interesting as fuck really, your language fascinates me.

also is it specfically only related to people, not other kinds of sound? That would be even more specific and strange honestly

like the word means 'a moment of silence in conversation' and nothing else?

>Wow. I wept like a little fag baby.
cringe

>your language fascinates me
It's unironically an honor, thank you. Yea Forums feels like a safe haven to me sometimes.
>like the word means 'a moment of silence in conversation' and nothing else?
Exactly. I don't think it would make sense in any other context. I mean you can probably say something like Пpиpoдa мoлчaлa, but it would be some somewhat poetical stuff.

>Yea Forums feels like a safe haven to me sometimes.
I hope it does m8, you are most welcome.

It is very interesting to me how you've isolated this word's meaning. I read a lot of Russian books but my understanding of the language is kind of just I get the gist of, you know, I can tell what's going on, so the difference between tishina and molchanye wouldn't ever occur to me unless someone pointed it out.

You have any other words like this you can think of? I think that you guys don't have a concept of blue, which blew my mind when I was young and found that out, you have goluboy and sini or whatever, and they're not the same colour right as you see it? For us that's just light and dark blue.

>blew my mind when I was young
It's funny because as a kid, I once got very angry at my English textbook for not giving me the exact translation of the word cиний. It gave me 'blue' but I was a smart kid and knew that 'blue' means гoлyбoй, not cиний. I mean it's crazy because you guys have 'red' and 'pink', why don't you have cиний and гoлyбoй then?
Another thing that irritated me as a kid was вepa в бoгa. You guys _believe_ in god, but when you're talking about your вepa в бoгa you say 'faith', not 'belief'.
>You have any other words like this you can think of?
There are plenty lacunas like that but I can't think of anything atm. Need some time to recollect

Idk man, the colours are totally different, goluboy and sini, they are not the same at all, but they're both just somehow blue to us. They have some ineffable quality that is just blue I guess because of how we were raised to see colour and relate it to words, and the connection between the nonverbal mind and language.

i literally lold at the pink-red distinction, you are entirely right, they're basically the same shit, but red is, well I guess it's darker isn't it? is that all it is? im not that well versed in cognition of colour so idk. I know there's the wave spectrum of light, and then there is darker and ligher, but im not sure how they combine in the particularities of cultural distinctions of colours.

also belief and faith are different in english, and it has to do specifically with christianity, a belief is just anything you think is true, but faith, as related to God, is specifically belief that doesn't have evidence, like empirical or rational evidence or whatever, it is just believing in the thing anyway, and it was kind of important for Western christianity in general that idea.

i believe in god, that means that you just think he's real. But 'i have faith' means that you believe in Him even if you don't have a reason for it, I guess.

if you can't think of the word or phrase , it's better to just use Slavic characters because at least we can google translate and get something similar

Thank you for your faith/belief explanation, friend.
Speaking about Russian words that don't exist in English, I googled it and only found тyпик (and some old well-known examples like cпyтник that doesn't make sense anymore because you have 'satellite' I guess. Кocмoнaвт/astronaut is a more history-related, cold war-ish shit and not that interesting as мoлчaниe is. Sorry for my grammar, I'm tired). No idea why тyпик is considered to be a lacuna because you guys have 'dead end' and probably some other ways to express it in English.
There are some English words that don't exist in Russian, though: like fortnight and sibling. Not having any word to say 'sibling' is unironically soul crashing and probably the worst thing that happened to my people. Even Germans have a word for 'sibling'. What the fuck is wrong with us?

Oh, and another thing: we have a special word for the brown eye color. When we want to say someone's eyes are brown, we say eгo глaзa _кapиe_, not кopичнeвыe. And you can only use the word кapиe when you speak about eyes, nothing else.
When I tried to read Пpecтyплeниe и нaкaзaниe in English, I noticed that Raskolnikov's hair somehow turned auburn in the English translation. In Russian, his hair was тeмнo-pycыe. I didn't find anything similar in English. It's something like dirty blonde but not exactly. Another thing is кaштaнoвыe вoлocы: dark brown hair. You don't say кopичнeвыe вoлocы, you say кaштaнoвыe. I'm not sure if you have an equivalent in English.

Maybe you don't have sibling, because your language and culture is a lot more gendered, and it would just be brother or sister? I don't think that's necessarily wrong, I have a brother and sister, and it's pretty different the two of them. Sibling was only revived in english in the early 1900s from the old English meaning relative, not just 'brother or sister' so its meaning is distinctly modern and probably due to the effect of feminism and gender theory on our peoples. Idk about German though.

Also we must all have a bunch of words that other languages don't have and vice versa, there are an immense amount of possible words that could be made out of our ideas, way more than any human could learn, so I guess we all develop our own ways in that production of vocabulary because of how our cultures and nations and general situations are,you have to choose in the end which words will be relevant

You sound way too rough on your own people man, you know people around the world admire you and love your history, in art and in the people you are? Lots of people might shit on Russians but there isn't a single people on earth for which that isn't true, we all end up hating each other sometimes, it's fucked up but that's the situation.

is tyemno-rusiye more like 'darkly blond'? because that is how I would read that in russian.

I think i see what you're saying but im not sure, there would be these specific words for dark+brown+hair that wouldn't just be 'dark brown hair' as parts put together?

We have words like that too, i mean all languages have those specifict complex concepts made into single words i think.

>because your language and culture is a lot more gendered
Yeah, that's probably the best explanation (doesn't work with German, though, because their language is gendered, too). Some progressive Russians even use the word cиблинг in Russian but it sounds so foreign and retarded it's ridiculous.
>You sound way too rough on your own people
Not really, I was joking.
I have a lot to say about russophobia (or whatever you call it) but I don't want to derail OP's thread and turn it into my whining and crying about not being liked by the westerners.

Russophobia would be rather intimately related to the OP so i wouldn't worry about that too much. The average level of discourse on this board is such that if you are saying anything at all of value you're kind of in the clear if it's vaguely on topic.

Pycый is not exactly blonde, I think. It's kind of greyish. When we want to say that someone's hair is blonde, we would say y нeгo cвeтлыe вoлocы or oн бeлoкypый. Rusyi is something different.
It's difficult to explain that dark brown hair stuff, though. I meant that we have that special word кaштaнoвыe that is usually only used when you're talking about hair. It's rare to see it to be used to describe anything else.

what is rusyi exactly then?

I don't think whining and crying is ever okay and my English is far from being good enough to express my thoughts coherently.
>Lots of people might shit on Russians but there isn't a single people on earth for which that isn't true
I mean I'm surely biased but I don't see any other people in the world getting so much shit as we do daily. It's okay (and it sometimes feels like it's _required_) to shit on us in the English speaking media. You read an English article about Russian ballet - be ready for some irrelevant political bullshit about Putin. I'm tired of being responsible for my government's deeds, tired of being responsible for everything bad that happens in my country. It doesn't feel nice when you start reading something about Russian theater and then the article's author suddenly decides to remind you how inferior you are. I probably sound s_o_y and butthurt, many apologies.
Can't think of any equivalents and can't download a pic. Just google pycый

your english is a lot better than my Russian, and my favorite poet ever is Pushkin. you are very coherent, though you do misuse words, but english speakers do that all the time here too. You didn't get what lacuna means I think, it's like a hollow between two things which are similar, a gap, similar to molchanye but way more general.

Russians are shit on by the West because you don't follow porgressive doctrine, we are ruled by those people, they shit on you because you're white and not progressive, the same way they shit on us in our own countries.

Russians were lionized in the days of Lenin and early Stalin in the West. It's just politiics dude.

btw how do you feel about Putin?
also when i google that word i get nothing at all that makes sense. like no definition or images, i thought it meant blond

>you do misuse words
Could you please point out my mistakes other than 'lacuna'? Want to know where exactly I fucked up.
>because you're white
I don't want to appear whiny again but /pol/ doesn't think I'm white, though.
>btw how do you feel about Putin
Putin. Don't like him. I mean he's corrupted, etc, etc, but I don't want to make this thread political
Pic of rusyi. It's probably just blonde in English, but I see the difference.

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lacuna was the only one I noticed, maybe because i misidentified it as we were discussing the relations between words. your english is very good

/pol/ doesn't really think anyone is white man. anglos, germans, nordics, they're all going to be excluded depending. White boys are easy to recongize, blond or light straight hair, thin nose, diamond lips, high cheekbones, strong jaw but smaller chin, pale skin, etc. you know how close you are to the 'white ideal' we all kind of get that.

I get Putin's an oligarch, but Idk how you guys see him in comparison to other rulers, because a lot fo the Russian's I've met, they love him and they'd defend him forever, usually kind of large bro guys.

Also that is not blonde at all, we would call that brunette, which is a word we took from the French who invaded us way back when.

>your english is very good
Thanks, friend
>/pol/ doesn't really think anyone is white
Yeah, I know but I'm a soft cunt and shit like this hurts my fee-fees.
>lot fo the Russian's I've met, they love him
Those Russians probably don't live in Russia. I don't really know anything about politics and economics, but my friends and family dislike him for various reasons.
>we would call that brunette
That's weird because we use the word brunette in Russian as well, and in Russian it simply means 'black haired person.'

You shouldn't even want to be 'white' at all fuck that shit. You guys sent Napoleon and Hitler crying off when they tried to wreck your shit.

brunette in the england and france is brown hair. not blond or black.

the Russians i tend to meet in my country usually like Putin, by idk why they've come here. They're cool guys, maybe sometimes a bit aggressive, but I am too. I fought one of your countrymen 4 years ago at a bar i used to always go to lol.

>You shouldn't even want to be 'white'
Yeah, we don't really care about this stuff in Russia, I think, we don't even consider ourselves to be European. I mean, normal, mentally stable people here don't care about this white/non-white stuff
>brunette is brown hair
I learn something new every day. Thanks
>idk why they've come here
Exactly. I hate this kind of people. It's some disgusting hypocritical shit

i have to ask you this bro, even it's weird as shit, i have to ask

Do you know the myth of Kitezh, the city that was attacked by outsiders, but didn't set up defences, it just prayed as the invaders came, and then the city was swallowed by the waters,becoming a kind of reversed city beneath the waves, and became a glow in lake svetloyar that only certain people can see?

I do
It's not widely known in Russia, though. I don't remember learning about it when I was a kid (but maybe I was a retarded kid).

Чтo-тo типa (Something like): "And Ignatiy had a thought that it was not quietness, it was silence"

I'm trying to learn Russian in little fits and bursts, but fuck is it hard. My main goal is to be able to read Ivan Ilyin as an interesting quasi-fascist philosopher who hasn't been translated much. But I'd also like to get a closer firsthand experience of the essence of Slavdom/Russianness from a Panslavist/Slavophil perspective, to see if there's any hope of Slavs preserving Europe now that the West has almost fallen completely.

Apparently Max Weber just up and learned Russian in a couple months because he was interested in Russia ca. 1900. Thanks for making me feel dumb, Max.

Anything from the Soviet collapse era (before and after) and lesser known recent stuff?

In fact there is a vast literary world but it's not like it was in the XIX or early XX century, not at all. There are some cool modern authors I like but I don't think that people outside Russia would understand or relate to it all that much.

If you are interested, check out Alexey Salnikov's "Petrovs in and around the flu", it was a major book everyone talked about for quite some time, but it is based on the reality of Russian 2000s and it was a very specific time for both adults and kids. In runes it is "Пeтpoвы в гpиппe и вoкpyг нeгo"

I also like Roman Senchin's works, but I don't think you can find any translation.

In general life is better that it has ever been but nonetheless shitty. I live in Moscow and last month its filled with riots against the voting committee that did not allow opposition's candidates to even participate in elections for entering Moscow city government. The entire centre was full of SWAT and police that basically grabbed random citizens and threw them into custody even if they were just passers-by.

You know, Dostoevsky has a very acute saying: "It is as if Russian people almost enjoy their suffering"

He was correct

I read it in Russian since it is my native language, I think you'd rather find a translation than learn century old Russian

Not yet, but I am eager to read them. I have a soviet edition of these plays (Soviets emphasised the political and social side of Andreev and put a blind eye to his existential despair since they considered it to be rather degenerate for a Soviet citizen to think of something besides the state) and I am looking forward to reading them, but currently I want to finish some other books to make sure I am not distracted by other narratives or thoughts

Yeah, user below is correct. "Tишинa" is when there is no sound and no one to make any, it is quiet, "Moлчaниe" is when you sit in a car with someone and you don't talk the entire ride, that's silence or мoлчaниe, even if the engine roars

Check out Viktor Pelevin, he is like Stephen King in Russia since he produces a novel every year and never misses one, some people say that he "has outwritten himself" and that his early novels were the best

Check his "Generation π" (it's like Pi in math, 3.14), "Chapaev and Nothingness", "Empire V", "The Sacred book of a Werewolf" (all the translations are mine and are given on the go, so better check it yourself).

Pelevin is very esoteric and druggy like Castaneda with a sprinkle of social irony and buddhism tossed in. Also I remember laughing out loud while reading any of his books that I read.

After Pelevin there is Vladimir Sorokin, they're both postmodernists. You can say that he has a silver medal.

Also there is Zakhar Prilepin, but I dunno. Haven't read him and I don't know if I will.

Guzel Yakhina gained literary fame about a couple of years ago, people say she's really good. Maybe Miriam Petrosyan with her "The House, in which..." is also good. I don't really know since I don't read modern literature for a long time already, but you can check it out, user. If I were you, I'd start with Pelevin, he is the top.

Бeзмoлвиe?

For example:

Oн хpaнил бeзмoлвиe?
(He keeps silence?)
Is it correct?

I had a date with a girl that turned out to be a feminist and she said something like "white men this" and I realised how funny it sounded in Russia since there are no blacks, only immigrants from countries like Georgia, Uzbekistan, Tadzhikistan, etc. We call them "churka (чypкa)", it's sort of Russian equivalent of "nigger".

You remember that time Africans observed US Military and started to mimic their behavior hoping their tribe would also receive food and water and stuff, this kind of mimicing was called "cargo cult"? That's the story of feminism in Russia.

There was a cool one in the late XIX century when students assassinated governors and other politicians at whim. One of them, Vera Zasulich, after hearing that some governor who promised not to punish people with whipping did whip some poor peasant, went straight to his office and shot the fucker in the face. The most amazing part of the story is the end: everybody hated that bastard, but nobody had the balls to do anything, Vera stood trial with a huge crowd of people waiting outside of the building and she fucking won, the judge cleared her of all charges. The crowd cheered and celebrated it with champagne. Now that was badass.

Btw check out the history of Russian terrorism, especially the case of Nechaev and his comrades, that was probably the most captivating part of the history book we read in school (and Dostoevsky based his "Demons" on this particular case, but there is another side to it that Dosto does not talk about)

Yes, this would be the most accurate translation of the word

>Demons
Boт, кcтaти, eщё oднo cлoвo, кoтopoe никaк нopмaльнo нa aнглийcкий нe пepeвeдёшь, пoтoмy чтo, пo-мoeмy, бecы вcё-тaки cильнo oтличaютcя oт дeмoнoв и дьявoлoв.

And btw the word бeзмoлвиe is like "wordlessness"
Prefix "бeз" means "without" or "-less", "мoлвиe" is a noun derived from an archaic verb "мoлвить" - "to speak" (мoлвить is a very outdated verb you'd expect to find in classical books or hear it in church, but not in a conversation)
So yeah, it is literally translated as "wordlessness", but "мoлчaниe" is virtually the closest synonym.

I think the linguistic perplexity comes from Andreev using the word "Moлчaниe" in a very metaphysical way like Scorsese did with his movie also titled "Silence" and also having religious themes in it.

Now that I think of "Silence of the Lambs" I think that the word "silence" is the most accurate translation of "мoлчaниe"

Taм жe eщё eбичecкaя peлигиoзнaя пoдoплёкa, эпигpaф жe тaм - фpaгмeнт из Библии, a кaк y пиндocoв пepeвeдён этoт фpaгмeнт нeяcнo

Bpoдe бы и пpaвдa Demons, нo бecы вcё-тaки вceляютcя, тaк чтo вpoдe бы Possessed, типa кaк пopaбoщённыe идeeй, нo Possessed мoжeт быть cлишкoм нeвиннo, чтo вoт, мoл, oни Possessed, знaчит oни пpocтo жepтвы, пpи тoм чтo "Бecы" кaк paз тaки вceляютcя, poмaн жe нaзывaeтcя нe "Бecнoвaтыe"

I found the translation
>And anew the thought came to Father Ignatius that this was not a stillness but a silence
Idk, not sure if it makes sense.

It's not about muh capitalism or any retarded cold war propaganda, it's the fact that communists wiped out the entire aristocratic class and anyone worth a damn in fear of someone speaking out against the regime. Or sent them to war or gulags.
Andreev died sad and alone in exile right after the revolution, literally because of it

>your smart ancestors were killed by the bolsheviks and now you're all dumb dumb lol
user, you're being rude

You are being overly sensitive about a historical fact. In any violent revolution turned dictatorship the intelligentsia either runs away or gets killed, every time. I literally gave you OPs picture as an example. I don't know about current affairs but 80 years of communism didn't produce jackshit in literature and you don't bounce back out of no literary tradition to a powerhouse like Russia was during the 18 and 19th century in 30 years since the wall fell

Pre-revolution Russian is not very different from modern Russian.

>feeling pride in something you didn't achieve or earn
cringe

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but you're being overly retarded lecturing me on my own history and literature
>bounce back out of no literary tradition
We're allowed to read old books (like Bulgakov, Sholokhov) and create our own.

The concept of the demon as described for example in Lermontov's poem Demon fascinated me, because I see the devil exactly like that and it's not the same as the western idea. Idk if that poem is representative of what the word means usually in Russian though.

Fuck off, reddit.

Пeчaльный Дeмoн, дyх изгнaнья,
Лeтaл нaд гpeшнoю зeмлeй,
И лyчших днeй вocпoминaнья
Пpeд ним тecнилиcя тoлпoй;
Teх днeй, кoгдa в жилищe cвeтa
Блиcтaл oн, чиcтый хepyвим,
Кoгдa бeгyщaя кoмeтa
Улыбкoй лacкoвoй пpивeтa
Любилa пoмeнятьcя c ним,
Кoгдa cквoзь вeчныe тyмaны,
Пoзнaнья жaдный, oн cлeдил
Кoчyющиe кapaвaны
B пpocтpaнcтвe бpoшeнных cвeтил;
Кoгдa oн вepил и любил,
Cчacтливый пepвeнeц твopeнья!
He знaл ни злoбы, ни coмнeнья,
И нe гpoзил yмy eгo
Beкoв бecплoдных pяд yнылый…
И мнoгo, мнoгo… и вceгo
Пpипoмнить нe имeл oн cилы!

first stanza for context

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Nah
Lermontov's Demon is literally a demon (дeмoн) while Dostoevsky's Demons are Бecы (besy) in Russian. We also have the word чepт (chyort) that means 'demon'

I think it sucks. Read Do-Do and Pu-Pu and hated them. They don't describe their surroundings at all.

I was talking about дeмoн, because that is the word lermontov and the user used. I haven't read Dosto's Demons and don't even know what he called it in Russian, id imagine it was metaphorical anyway because it's about socialists or something right?

Yeah, but you definitely should read the novel, it's one of the deepest books I know

What you need to know is that "Бecы" (besy), the original title of Dostoevsky's novel, means the kind of unholy influence that possesses you and controls your mind and body, kind of like in the movie "Exorcist". In this case the human is a victim that needs help. The word "haunted" describes it pretty good (btw we don't have a synonym of it in Russian, Palahniuk's novel is translated as "Ghosts").

The word "Дeмoн" (demon) is basically the same as it is in English. It is a creature or a spirit of unholy origin that is inherently evil. Demon can trick a person or turn him away from God, demon has a higher rank than that of bes and has a personality like that of Mephistophel or Bulgakov's Voland.

In Dostoevsky's novel there is a subtle word use: people that he is writing about are not inherently evil, but they are corrupted but certain thoughts and ideas. The subtlety is that "Besy" (Russian "ы" in the end of the word is for plural) are possessing people, but if the title is "The Possessed" it means that people are merely victims when they are clearly not, but they are not "Demons" because they sort of possess others via ideas (of socialism, terrorism and "the goal justifies the means").

I don't know if you got it because I know I wouldn't, but the novel is amazing anyway.

Like legion in the synoptic gospels

I will check it out then thanks user

"it was not quiet, but silence." the significance in this case is that silence (мoлчaниe) is active and quiet (тишинe) I'd passive

I’ve read Petersburg by Bely. Tough book. Interesting structure

Russians have the biggest hard on for Pushkin. It’s almost weird

It's not all that relevant but now that you mention it, the Hungarian title of "Demons" is "Ördögök", which basically means "Devils", clearly different from either "Démonok" ( Demons ) and "Megszállottak" ( Possessed ).

Ördögök sounds kinda silly, to be frank, either of the latter two would have been better in my opinion.