Nature of consciousness

I read this book recently that got me thinking. In the book, someone's brain is scanned just before they die and the contents of their brain is uploaded into a computer where they keep on living. This means that the digital version of that person has the exact same memories and personality as the original and from its perspective it is the same consciousness, and from everybody else's perspective as well.

But would that consciousness actually be the same as the original consciousness? If you think about it, the original person's consciousness died and they no longer exist. There just exists an exact copy of their consciousness, which for all intents and purposes is the same as the original. From its perspective nothing has changed, but from the original consciousness' perspective it is dead.

But you could also argue that consciousness by its very nature implies that it is immaterial, and therefore the original consciousness survived. This would raise a whole barrage of other existential questions, however.

What do you think, Yea Forums?

>Pic unrelated

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Desu this is why I don’t believe in existence. Is a clone the same consciousness? When you wake up in the morning are you the same consciousness? Over 7 years every cell in your body gets replaced, you are a completely new being, are you the same consciousness? More importantly, if you have sex for 7 years is it cheating to finish?

>I don’t believe in existence

christ almighty


as far as op goes, please read AT LEAST hilary putnam. consciousness is an embodied phenomenon.

You dont believe in existance?
Surely you must agree that in some way, even if we are a clone or in a simulation we exist in some way.

Extremely cursed image, pls delete.

The problem is that scientific understanding is nominal, while you mix it up with platonic realism.

>But would that consciousness actually be the same as the original consciousness?

No, it would fork and diverge onwards.

>But you could also argue that consciousness by its very nature implies that it is immaterial, and therefore the original consciousness survived.

consciousness is only an abstract notion for emergent property. Like evolution, or prime numbers. Sure, consciousness would be the same as a *concept*, but down to nuts and bolts, it's definitely separate individual.

No, Bertie, the rhinozeros might be here after all.

Meaning what makes you an individual is exact state and hardware it runs on being unique. If you get into a transporter accident, there will be two Rikers.

I don’t believe in existence of the self as anything other than an abstraction, I believe our existence is a mere chemical reaction. Most importantly I find terms like life and death redundant.

>Most importantly I find terms like life and death redundant.
I consider this nihilistic abberration. As you said, your Self exists as brain chemistry, but more importantly as part of macro system of evolutionary propagation of species. Your body is a cog within the evolutionary process, where life and death of individual is the atomic part of each evolutionary step - how can you deem that irrelevant, when it's the very same process which created you? Unless, of course, you deem the whole concept of all life as such pointless.

well if you're going to die anyway it's not so bad, unless you're jealous of the clone.
just dont step into a transporter before then

It's pretty simple OP. Your consciousness is a constant stream of electrical signals trough your brain. If you are cloned your electrical signal (consciousness) will go to the clones mind, but you won't experience his existence because his electric signals aren't going through your brain (doesn't matter if they're the same, you exist in different positions in space time). He will experience consciousness just like you do.
Consciousness is very material, it arises from a network of neurons, similar to how trees can send signals through their roots because a bundle of a thing has created a whole (consciousness). Also the smarter you are (more high quality neurons) the more consciousness you'll have.

Not OP, but can those born with autism really feel like their part of a whole and find meaning from the whole when they've been alienated by society? I think they can if they try hard, but it's a grueling task.

Do you really count the individual candle flames that make up a fire?

When each individual flame decides to existing is pointless, there will be no fire. You're a part of collective decision making - your decision that fire is pointless bears only little to no relevance, as majority of flames are ok with existing.

But if all decide not to exist...well, that's the whole point of nihilism. It is perfectly as individual choice, but as an ideology - entire societies deciding existing is pointless, that's what I take issue with.

The fun part is that society which alienated you is completely irrelevant. Don't like society as it is? Change it to go full autismo, beta uprising or something. If it turns out you are right, and they're wrong, the whole point of evolution (both biological - survival of the fittest, and sociological - civil wars) is to accomodate that.

This sounds like free will talk. What’s the essential difference between a human milling about according to their influences and an ant following its trail of pheromones? Do you assign the same worth to an ants existence as ours?

>Do you assign the same worth to an ants existence as ours?
Ants have vastly skewed mode of selection - only queens are the breeders. Workers are excluded from sexual selection and thus matter far less in terms of evolutionary pathways probed. There's not much of cross-mold competition (ie ant's aren't tournament species). Ant's are PvE, we're PvP.

>Do you assign the same worth to an ants existence as ours?
Not necessarily. We as species - evolutionary ensemble as a whole - are far superior than any other species, fe cockroaches.
Notice that this evolutionary value is time bound - if all life dies out, but cockroaches survive, in couple hundred of million years they'd (probably) evolve into something as good as human species. There you get Zenos-like solution to the paradox of procrastination - why should we (as individual, as species...) bother, when those after me can bother? Because if you do that often enough, life halts.

It's not irrelevant because it has an impact on my mood, we all have a status measuring device in our brain and if it goes to low depression starts to kick in. You can't change society because it arises from the whole of normies. You're right society might treat autismos better in the future but as of know barely anyone gives a shit, especially therapists.
:(

>It's not irrelevant because it has an impact on my mood, we all have a status measuring device in our brain and if it goes to low depression starts to kick in. You can't change society because it arises from the whole of normies.

It's not as complicated as it seems. There are exist two paths:

1. individual to group influence, you get depressed, and go full postal, because that's what your instincts ultimately are programmed for - suicide bombers, unabomber, christchurch.

2. group action, is systematic. after the society is so broken that *majority* gets depressed, reform is simply inevitable - the current cultural system can't support itself.

Now you as individual will be suffering no matter what (along with billions more). Regardless, it will self-correct as stated above. If everyone gets depressed and just KYS instead of doing 2, the whole thing falls apart. Oh, did I mention that evolution is incredibly brutal and predisposed on suffering of those who get caught in the filter?

Ants do select mates through tournament, males just only last a few hours.

So what if an experiment was done where you are cloned well asleep and your Consciousness is put in a robotic replica that is identical to the original. If you are not informed to the original or the Clone is you would not be able to tell who's stream-of-consciousness was the original, if you are the Clone you would think you were the original and vice versa.

I find it better to think of Consciousness as you being a program with electricity running through it that electricity is your consciousness and it is based off the program. So if you copy the program exactly and put electricity through it it will be the same thing. After all we are just matter with a bit of electricity running through us.