Do these guys actually understand Marx? Are there any alt-left figures who do?
Also, have any prominent Marxists embraced non-internationalist forms of Marxism? I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies, which are clearly just a means of diluting labor politics and creating lumpenproletariats.
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>Do these guys actually understand Marx?
No
>Are there any alt-left figures who do?
Most "bread tubers" haven't even read Marx
>Also, have any prominent Marxists embraced non-internationalist forms of Marxism?
See the eastern bloc
>I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies, which are clearly just a means of diluting labor politics and creating lumpenproletariats.
Read critiques of capitalism from the right if you want that.
What is a "bread tuber?"
I have read critiques from the right, but I want to read critiques from the left as well. I was disappointed by Chapo Trap House. They stink of neoliberalism.
>What is a "bread tuber?"
The anarchist and socialist side of YouTube. There's quite a few YouTubers.
>but I want to read critiques from the left as well.
I suppose you could read Germany Tomorrow or some Post Keynesian critiques of neoliberalism like the support for open borders and free trade.
Biden did terribly last night Bros, like holy shit he looked like a kid whose been bullied too much
Pete did alright, he had his sassy YAS QWEEN moments but mostly mediocre, you can really tell he’s out of his league
Marianne was also out of her league but I liked her
Bernie swerved from awkward and stumbling to angry old man on Fire with rage, very hit or miss.
Hickenlooper is still on some black pill shit about “we must save then environment by turning to gas and oils” lmao
#OurNEET Yang was afk for the night...it is funny that of the 3 times he was questioned, 2/3 were when someone brought up China.
>we have a China question
>YANG! Your turn to field it
Lmao
Harris was, unfortunately, the most confident sounding one and probably won the debate. Still a cop so will never vote for her.
The rest were so forgettable I have no comments
The inflation of "bread tube" is the most artificial shit ever
>I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies, which are clearly just a means of diluting labor politics and creating lumpenproletariats.
Angela Nagle and Zizeks articles on open borders might be somewhere to start. I'm sure there's more intelligent and in depth analysis out there, but they give a general outline of the argument.
Yang only got 3 minutes
>Marianne was also out of her league but I liked her
Marianne is smarter than the people laughing at her give her credit for. She's crazy, but she's not dumb. Her point that plans and policy discussion won't win the election, and that you need a MESSAGE, is 100% spot on and it's insane to me that nobody else was willing to back her up on it.
Plus, she's a mega babe.
Did Biden really get that much? I barely remember anything he said. I watched the whole thing and I feel like he barely spoke. This is seriously fucking with my mind.
>she’s a mega babe
Holy shit she’s such a fox desu. And yes that’s what I mean...all I heard about her was some hippy shit, and some of it was true, but she actually came off as better than fucking Biden, a past VP
Biden talked about Trump the whole time. That's why you don't remember what he said because the trump bashing isn't even amusing.
Holy shit they did him dirty
I know. They even have buttfag and Williamson more time.
>Candidates what is the first act you’d do as president
>Biden: We have to get rid of Trump FUCK TRUMP
That was such a non-answer, i really can’t stress how weak Biden came off. I thought it was a meme that Biden would start to lose as soon as he opened his mouth, but it’s true.
Yes, but he also didn't use his time well. He played by the rules too closely, spoke less than his allocated time limit and spoke in that concise and uninspiring tech way like he was delivering a keynote.
Harris also humiliated Biden on national TV. Biden might be done for after this debate. It was also really cringe when Biden was trying to prove that he had more diversity points than the other candidates.
>Biden: I can’t be a racist I have a black friend and his name is OBAMA
Actually laughed out loud
The funniest moment to me as when Harris "cornered" Biden on why he didn't use federal power to override state autonomy on the bussing issue, and you could tell Biden was scrambling because he knows the average American voter would go apeshit if you said "Look, moral agenda or not, states' rights are states' rights and the federal government can't just do whatever it wants.."
She really fucked him into a corner on that one. The only right answer was a "wrong" answer, from a voter perspective. The average American now only understands government in terms of the executive.
>understand Marx
doesn't matter, if Marx is "right" history has an unfolding telos which regardless of anyone will realize itself, if he's "wrong" then he's irrelevant
>any prominent Marxists embraced non-internationalist forms of Marxism
that literally makes no sense since the entire theory is premised upon capitalist development which is a global system, of course 20th century intellectuals were all about "delinking" from it but they all failed and weren't logically consistent
>I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies, which are clearly just a means of diluting labor politics and creating lumpenproletariats.
words like "neoliberal" have no analytical meaning, closed borders would only ever work if you had total free capital movement so capital would move to underdeveloped regions, when you have any barriers or protectionist trade policy anyone with a brain is going to try to go where the jobs are at any cost instead of just sitting on their asses all day
please, don't post.
Who was that blonde bitch at the debate
She was giving off some STRONG I-want-to-speak-to-your-manager energy
Yeah, when someone made a comment on Obama, Biden would always interject and defend Obama.
Biden got mopped by Harris that people are actually betting on Harris to win the Dem primary.
>non-internationalist forms of Marxism
That's a contradiction in terms.
>I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies
You can look into pic related, but that probably won't be the kind of critique that you're looking for. You're not looking for anything Marxist, but for social-democratic ideas that go contrary to communism.
Low-skilled workers are admitted depending on where in the business cycle we are. Once the crisis hits you'll have your Obama 2.0 wave of deportations.
>which are clearly just a means of diluting labor politics and creating lumpenproletariats
You won't abolish the necessity for a surplus army of labour by decree, by "closing the borders" or whatever. For that, capitalism needs to go, and that can't be limited to a single country.
GOOD ONE YANG
Gillibrand is the annoying bitch in your uni class that thinks she's going to be president because her daddy reminds her every day that she can be anything.
That said, I think she was trying to replicate Trump's debate tactic. She knows she's not a front runner, so she tried to yell over the others to get her voice out there. Of course, fat chance.
God the 'alt-left' meme needs to die, fast.
Do Chapo et al. understand Marx? Probably more than they let on, but they're not really endorsing particularly Marxist tendencies in any way, they're more reformist/socdem. If you're interested, full tank podcasts like RevLeft Radio and Proles of the Roundtable actually know what they're talking about, and are serious about it.
As for your second question; it's been tried, vaguely, but it's shortsighted. I'm curious why you're looking for that - do you just want reinforcement of all the pol memes you've read about immigration and it's damages, folded into a leftist ideology under the guise of compassion for the 'labour market'? Why not actually read some good left-wing analyses of immigration and defenses of open borders? Do you want to think? Or do you just want to be a brainless NazBol, for edge's sake?
This article is pretty decent, will post more if you're genuinely curious:
cosmonaut.blog
like I said: Marx in his own theory is irrelevant if he's right or wrong, so there's no point in worrying about that... but any politics which amounts to muttering about "neoliberalism", which no one can really define, is a bad sign for idiots who don't want to understand the complexity of the international system... most labour nonetheless is preformed in Asia today so any real revolutionary event will probably have to unfold there.
Anyone here /swalwellgang/?
Fuck off marxniggers, were talking about the debate.
This
Help me Bros, I actually like Harris now
it's totally logical to reject immigrants politically if you're enforcing a protectionist racket of enriching yourself at the expense of others. an actual functional system of global free trade is the only thing that makes open borders essiently a none issue, the problem is the world is highly impoverished and global welfare hasn't/won't work. everything will remain a mess as long as everything is organized on the basis of nation states trying to undermine each other
>"neoliberalism", which no one can really define
wow
>reparations
She’s done, bye bye sweatie
>someone asks if there are left-wingers who are anti-immigration
>"Why? Why? Why would you want to read that? Huh? Why? Do you even want to think? Don't read that. Only read what I tell you to read, so you can actually think. Do you want to be brainless? Or do you want to think for yourself and read what I tell you to read?"
compelling
Reparations means she lost the non-black vote. If I was black, I would certainly vote for reparations because who doesn't love free money?
She was never in contention, why not enjoy the ride? God she makes me rock hard.
Lmao why are socialists so afraid to label themselves idealists, when thats all their rhetoric and aims are? WE ARE GOING TO CREATE A GLOBAL SOCIETY WHERE EVERYONE GETS THEIR NEEDS IM NOT AN IDEALIST THO. Fuck id like them more if they just admit it.
Read Marx and Engels. marxists.org
>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
Also read Engels. marxists.org
>The solution of the social problems, which as yet lay hidden in undeveloped economic conditions, the Utopians attempted to evolve out of the human brain. Society presented nothing but wrongs; to remove these was the task of reason. It was necessary, then, to discover a new and more perfect system of social order to impose this upon society from without by propaganda, and, wherever it was possible, by the example of model experiments. These new social systems were foredoomed as Utopian; the more completely they were worked out in detail, the more they could not avoid drifting off into pure phantasies.
>someone asks for reading so that they can confirm what they think, instead of seeking the truth
>"how could you even question this bro, isn't that a bit dogmatic? Who are you to tell him what to think, everyone's entitled to an opinion"
weak
>just read marx bro it will all make sense
why are you assuming he hasn't?
Because he posed a question that is answered in Marx.
there is no alt-left, why are people trying to force this meme?
she's just brown Hillary, but with more lying about her policies.
I know she is, but I failed my charisma save roll
>marieanne is 66
Bro no way that’s a lie, she’s aged too damn well for that
>I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies
It's a pretty classical Marxist point that open borders or "free trade" between bourgeois states isn't actually a good thing. It's complicated by the humanitarian situations, and many leftists would support initiatives along those lines. But ultimately if both States involved are ultimately servicing exclusively their capitalist classes, then you're not going to get internationalism, you end up with something more akin to a prisoners dillema.
I think this is pretty easy to see in how most all modern "free trade" agreements tend to benefit Capital at the expense of people who actually work. Capital moves freely while the proletariat are constrained
That's not correct, Marx was pro free trade and anti-borders because he thought both would lead to an intensification of the contradictions of capitalism (within the Marxist framework) and further revolution of society's productive forces.
Holy shit you're a brainlet. Marx wanted free trade because he was an accelerationist and thought it would bring the revolution quicker and Marx hated open border and mass migration.
does l/acc count as alt-left?
"Marxism" doesn't exist, self identified Marxist have absolutely no coherent basis from which anything coherent could be deduced.
Marx may or may not have had consistent ideas, but clearly they aren't reflected by actual "Marxists".
>I'd like to see left-wing critiques of neoliberal open borders immigration policies, which are clearly just a means of diluting labor politics and creating lumpenproletariats.
Yes, but the only thing that Marxism REALLY is, is a brand and what that brand stands for (which, granted, might have no relation to Marx) is basically justifying neoliberalism for young revolutionaries, because whatever Marxists are pushing, its result is more neoliberalism.
>first point
That's what I was saying, he approved in an accelerationist sense.
>second point
The workers of the world have no country. Marx wasn't actually demonizing Irish immigration to England in that passage you're thinking of. Abolishing borders would also be accelerationist.
this. yang is a pussy. he has a trumpian spirit but he won't deliver it. typical chinks.
"Free trade" played a "progressive" role against feudal holdovers in his time, and that's why he supported it. But it hasn't played that role for a long time. Now it just serves to conserve the capitalist order, so he would just oppose all trade equally, "free" or not.
this is the beginning of american's political consciousness understanding that liberalism is totalitarianism hiding behind a mask of """not totalitarianism""". 2024 will be a good one when people are openly talking in favor of monarchy and so on.
wtf I want a gmilf now?
US has been left-wing monarchism v. Right-wing anarchism for awhile now.
>just leave me and my property alone!
vs.
>why aren't you using the executive to crush bigotry and promote equality?
i don't agree with your particulars. my big idea is that liberalism is dead and americans are starting to understand.
Is it really,it just seems like a continuation of previous American trends. The American left has always been heavy-handed with its use of the executive and courts on social issues and the right has always been somewhat lasseiz-faire. Every 60 years or so the left gets power and transforms society after a period of "wokeness", our current period is in line with historical trends. I'm also not sure what you're defining liberalism to be here.
It will be part of the party’s platform come the next national convention.
Real talk not too fond of that one, but the few questions she had a chance to answer she did great on.
Honestly she was better than Yang, Biden, Hickenlooper, that one blond chick, and bennet, and I forgot the other sam dude's name
Marx actually said we should all suck each other off and be really gay.
Reminder that it will start with "oh they just need mo' money fo' dem programs" and evolve into full-blown social engineering and South Africa style BEE but for literally any non white.
In one of his letters to Engels he hints that he's a closet homosexual.
He wrote a bunch of James Joyce tier letters to Engels calling him his 'Slutty little Fred'
I don’t think it’s that far, but the sense of justice the democrats pride themselves on ultimately won’t allow them to oppose if in any meaningful way.
Is it true that on the Chapo subreddit the mods would ask children for pictures of their penises?
>"I don't think Progressives will go that far, but..."
How many times has this sentence been uttered in American history?
busing was never popular and has never been supported by most americans when polled
