Pro lifers btfo

Do you like ben chapiro or doctor bucko, no joke?

I just hate faggots sorry.

>Get drunk
>Be out at 2am
>No husband, no commited boyfriend
>Vote for Democrats bringing in shitskin criminals
OH MY GOOOOD HOW DID I GET RAPED!!?

This man has not an ounce of philosophy in him. He strikes me as being the middle child of three brothers, and his eldest brother was sporty, and his youngest brother was simply happy to be alive, and at some point he struggled without being either happy or having something to do he excelled at, and one day decided 'I'm going to be the smart one', and so read, and so entered university, and so was moulded like the impressionable clay his is because he was not wise enough to be skeptical of even that which he was inclined to agree with.

That was a hyperbole in green color, user.
Actually pro-choice is the pro-men choice ironically
I would be pro-life if it involved both parties having consent to parenthood, paying child support is perfect analog to pregnancy

The fact that you make this into a petty issue of men vs. women, rather than understanding that it's a literal genocide of infants, shows that you are clueless.

>genocide of infants
And? What of them?
Nature genocides 1/3 of unborn infants already, have you watched the video?

>Actually pro-choice is the pro-men choice ironically
>I would be pro-life if it involved both parties having consent to parenthood, paying child support is perfect analog to pregnancy

Makes no sense. Men have legally zero choice in this

I'm not pro-choice, I'm pro-abortion.

Spare that innocent soul the pain of having to (re?)incarnate in a physical body, subject to the maladapted pains of pleasing the flesh. It is far better to never be born at all and live in whatever form there is pre-birth, if there is one at all, and if there is not, it is far better to never exist.

I truly regret not being aborted.

If that's actually an argument that is presented in the video, then it's not worth my time to watch it.

shapiro himself is the strongest argument in favor of abortion.

>(re?)incarnate
This does pose the problem, doesn't it. In Buddhism, the human existence is the most incredibly unlikely yet beneficial thing to achieve, because the suffering is not so great that the insight necessary to achieve enlightenment cannot be obtained, yet the pleasure is not so intense that you are unlikely to choose to walk the path. This is part of something the Buddha apparently said that I cut short for impact:
"Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water, and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think: would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?"
"It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole."
"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state."

>DUDE I *OWN* MY DEGENERACY HOW'S THAT FEEL /POL/ HAHAHAHAXGGAXXG
Honestly /pol/ comes closer to that. They screech about degeneracy in fucking /gif/ of all the places. It's funny how from time to time there's a thread about hot non white chicks with /pol/yps acting like monkeys.

Unironically start lifting/go for a run, you just need some more testosterone in your blood, you'll see how wrong you are right now in no time

that was a pretty decent shapiro impersonation tbqh

>these things are all related to each other!!!!11!

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Yes they do.
>hur durrrrr If nature is amoral It's ok to be amoral too!
I will hunt you down and butcher you for meat. Nothing personal i just could use spending a bit less for groceries and long pig is very nutritious.

Gnostics deserve all the suffering of the Eternal wheel of reincarnation.

Yes they are. It's cause and effect of living in a fallen world. You ignore reality at your risk and no kid should die to save you from the repercussions of your actions.

shame that godly morality of yours ends when the kid plops out of the coochie
>welp good luck, you're on your own now!

Broke: abortion should be legal because it's her body, her choice
Woke: abortion should be legal and mandatory, as women do not have agency to exercise, and all pregnancies in the case of rape or incest must be terminated regardless of what the woman wants

So if appropriate provisions were made for unwanted children to be raised in a decent environment, you would support banning abortion, correct?

R*ddit tier argument
Go back to r/socialism

hm maybe racial preferences are some inborn trait and not a tendency only among the exceedingly small proportion of the world which browses a particular board of an anonymous imageboard website

I'm not bothering with the video but I'm willing to bet he has something to say about bodily rights and violinists because that is what's inoculated into every freshman philosophy student. These types of people have only heard the weakest sort of rebuttals so they think it's a strong argument.

youtube.com/watch?v=RGPudL_GQ3Y

>I haven't watched the video or read anyone elses comments deeply enough to care, but here's a youtube video to my cover of wonderwall.

If abortion sterilized the woman afterwards that would be best case. That woman was never going to be responsible enough, and we need less kids born from older moms

>when he thinks me inviting rapists into the West has to do with me getting raped

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Who are you quoting?

Probably your YouTube cover of earth wind and fire’s Greatest hits.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Just like the rest of the thread.

retarded rebuttal
just using her own analogy
>baseball ball hits and breaks the window, therefore instead of fixing it(abortion) you should live with the broken window(continued pregnancy)

great video, he's 100% correct

Socialism + prol life is the most based position in politics. Abortion is a violation of humanity justified by the current economical exploitation of women.

The rest of thread doesn't know what they're talking about?

The government already murders people, what’s wrong with one more?

At some point you have to just acknowledge that your enemy is pure evil for the sake of being evil and has nothing resembling a moral conscience or capacity for reason. Supporting the industrialized murder of unborn babies is not just an honest mistake that one happens to slip into. There's no simple error in arithmetic there, no gee wiz misunderstanding. There is simply the conscious, deliberate, repeated embrace over extended periods of time of death and destruction and misery. These people are the children of Satan. If they were denied access to babies to murder, they would cause as much suffering as they possibly could some other way. They are psychopathic Sadists and simply desire universal chaos because they hate God. There's no point in trying to reason with them. They're so far gone all you can really do is remove them from your personal life and distance yourself from them as much as you possibly can and watch from afar as they just get worse and worse.

Nah theyll still find a reason to abort, probably just the inconvience of pregnancy is enough to abort even if the kid will 100% have decent conditions. Its entirely about themselves

based schizo christcuck

They should start with themselves

It’s easy to say that when you can’t get laid

Why bring another life into the world if we can just end it before consciousness? Or is every sperm sacred?

Do you really think you can just break your neighbors window and leave it alone and not have any duty to fix it? I don't think you're really trying to understand the argument or rebuttal, but merely looking for a reason to dismiss it.

HaVe SEx, aint I right incelboy.
Owned Xddddddddddddd

My sister was a militant feminist atheist who murdered her own unborn child because the father beat her (shockingly, he was a Muslim from Afghanistan). She constantly posted about rape on her Facebook and started making false rape accusations against people. The police declined to press any charges when it came out that she was a rape fetishist who published millions of words of rape fanfiction online and had been arranging to meet strangers over a sadomasochist social network website in order to entrap them in false rape allegations. I disowned her and cut off all contact before all this came out. Last I heard, she ended up in a mental hospital for trying to kill herself. I'm always amused when you people immediately resort to accusations of mental illness like I've never met any of you in real life.

only retarded americans think abortion is even up for debate

Why shouldn't it be up for debate?

>you people
seems like I was correct about your paranoid schizophrenia, seek help, schizo user

Imagine trying to defend something like this hahaha

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That was my point in bringing it up. The "well you don't care about them after they're born" response is not an argument of any sort of position, it's just an insult, because anyone that uses it would still support abortion on demand even if provisions were made for abandoned children. It's a purposefully deceptive response, just like most of the things they say.

because we're not retarded americans

a duty? Then we’re talking negligence. Was there a duty not to break a window? We’re they aware of baseball being played near the window? Did they assume the risk? Is it a jurisdiction for joint and severable liability? Is breaking a window even a breach of that duty? We don’t even get into proximate cause or but for causation at this point. Are damaged even worth bringing suit?

Jesus man, where do people like you come from? This is dumb.

I lump you in with every other supporter of baby murder in the world, as a fundamentally evil person. Morally or materially supporting abortion is a mortal sin that severs your connection to God and condemns your soul to Hell. Physician, heal thyself.

Uh, babies are only people if the government says they are, okay? If the government says they're not people then it's not murder got it?

It’s only a debate because the GOP wants it to be a debate. They only want it to be a debate because it gets people emotional. They only want people emotional because it gets them re-elected. This wasn’t even an issue in the political consciousness at the time of decision during roe. It’s absurd that we are having the discussion at all. It’s a waste of time and resources to perpetuate the discourse and distract from other issues.

>attributing malice to everyone that disagrees with you
Why fill yourself with such negativity? The only one that's creating the evil here is you, user.

How many abortions are actually cause of muh condom or birth control accident and not just two retarded cumbrains being completely irresponsible

>This wasn’t even an issue in the political consciousness at the time of decision during roe
I have heard some stupid things in my time but this one is up there.

If it was a baby, why would the call it a fetus? Why would we have two different words for the exact same thing???

99% I'd say. Not even being ironic

Not only watch from afar, but as they get worse we must get better, which I believe is a matter of remaining stable no matter how devastating things may become. As well as that, I would not credit them necessarily with the same malevolent subversion of Satan, when it is ignorance and the desire for social ingratiation that causes their mistaken views, and resulting behavior, not pure hatred. There is the desire for good in them, but the very desire causes harm when they equate "stability in the face of suffering" as being too close to apathy, and therefore, "evil". We have situations created where anything except righteous anger in the face of injustice is equal to sanctioning it. Then of course we have individuals that say explicitly evil things in order to tease and destabilize them. Another devilish game we are unwitting participants of.

You unrepentantly engage in the mortal sin of supporting the murder unborn babies. You're evil.

I’ve seen some claims without support or even a counter point, but this one is up there.

at best 1%

99% being worthless psychopathic whores I mean to say

At the center of the abortion debate is the highly abstract question of the nature and moral worth of the human being. This debate is beyond complex, and likely will never reach a clean resolution. In the face of this absolute uncertainty, what should our go-to position be? To deny rights, or to extend them? If we restrict abortion, and pro-choicers are right, then some women lose their healthcare. That would suck! But if we allow abortion, and the pro-lifers are right, then we are complicit in the greatest genocide the world has ever seen, and likely ever will see. Is that really a risk worth taking over some autistic philosophical debate over the nature of the human person?

It doesn't matter, because pro-abortion advocates want it available for any reason whatsoever. Slogans like "safe, legal, and rare," were designed to trick people. Likewise appealing to things like birth control failures are designed to trick people, because their position isn't related to that in any way.

based

ESL?

>We're having a fetus!
>Ooo! Feel my belly! The fetus just kicked!
>I'm so happy to be having your fetus.

Said no one fucking ever.

Fetus is Latin for baby.

I'm sure there are some intelligent people who are pro-choice but I sure as hell haven't seen them and I've seen a lot of evidence to the contrary. Watch somebody take this sentence and replace pro-choice with pro-life because that would be super clever.

You're saying that abortion wasn't debated when Roe was decided. I don't need evidence to prove that's retarded. It's prima facie stupid.

If it was a dog, why would they call it a puppy? Why would we have two different words for the exact same thing???

Well obviously it was debated, but I meant it wasn’t a national ideological hill to plant a flag on and take endless pleasure in moral superiority.

Because fetus is an impersonal, clinical term that allows the user to emotionally distance himself from the fact the is supporting the murder of babies. It also makes for an effective propaganda tool, as it can sow this sort of emotional distance in others.

Young seals are pups, but aren’t they lions???

Abortion is just a roastie get out of jail free card, eugenics-lite

If fetuses are babies then why do we abort them. Solve that one lifers

Abortion has never been about flag planting and moral superiority. That's stupid. The people that are for and against it believe as they do because they think it's right or wrong. You're characterizing one side as being evil because you're rhetorically inept.

English as Second Language? If so no, I am English, my writing becomes truncated and loses its music when I think and write analytically, especially about matters that are spiritual, so that I convey as little of myself as possible except what I truly think.

Abortion is wrong because:
>a fetus who hasn’t reached the point of viability is still a baby
>a baby is a human life
>taking a human life is wrong, always
>Therefore abortion is wrong

This is the argument correct? I’d hate to misstate the oppositions argument and then be called a fool and ignored for being inconsiderate and stupid.

>mortal sin
your own bible disproves that.
bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Infanticide

>taking a human life is wrong, always
that's a false premise

It can be stated more simply.

1. The unborn from the moment of conception is a human being.
2. It is wrong to kill an innocent human being
3. Abortion is the killing of an innocent human being
4. Abortion is wrong.

Source: the Vatican

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>I don't believe anything the Bible says but let me try to quote the Bible to convince you.
You are utterly without the spirit of truth. You aren't even capable of uttering a single honest word in defense of your own abominable bullshit. Like I said, you're evil.

>psst, what ? no, babies aren't people with their own potential, they're a continuation of my existence.
>They aren't individuals, that could eventually have a choice, their own life, they're just a mistake, my mist- ops, i mean, choice.
> I don't make mistake people, i'm not the result of a narcissistic culture, I'M A INDIVIDUAL WITH CHOICES, and no accountability.

>2. It is wrong to kill an innocent human being
Got any proof of that, kid?

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Why would people be so adamantly for invasion of a persons bodily autonomy if it wasn’t about moral superiority and flag planting? What, because a thing dies? People die by government intervention all the time. People murder each other all the time. Millions of animals are murdered for the sake of food all the time. We crush bugs that bite us and put down pets that grow too old to play. Death isn’t a serious issue. People only play it up as if it mattered because it gives them a false sense of superiority. Why else would they have such shallow convictions about one subject and be so dull to the rest of the worlds problems? Is this really what we should spend our time on debating? The possibility of the next Einstein or hitler having already been murdered by their mother because they didn’t want it? Bullshit. It’s to get the GOP elected in conservative districts because the fear mongering placates the scared, uneducated, and elderly.

It's not a matter of proof or not, but of what sort of society you want to live in. I don't want to live in a world where murder is acceptable.

I quote the bible to point out your hypocrisy on the matter, it doesn't matter if I believe it or not.
>killing embryos bad
>killing babbys good
>embryos and babbys are same
christcucks kek

I'm not bothering with this shit

So fertility clinic extras and stillborns are murder too?

>, but of what sort of society you want to live
What if i don't want to live in a society?..

You're arguing in bad faith because you're a liar to your bones. If you weren't, you wouldn't support murdering unborn babies without killing yourself out of shame of the monster you are.

but it is acceptable, burger soldiers mow down civilians and call it liberating

I put all that effort in and you deny me the pleasure of a rebuttal? That’s like pulling out right before climax. But you know, pulling out isn’t 100% safe.

Fertility clinic yes, natural deaths like stillborns no because nobody is murdering them. When grandma dies in her sleep we don't call a detective because there wasn't a murder. It was a natural death.

>no ur the monster!
pathetic. isn't it time for you to pay indulgences for lusting after young altar boys?

*Drinks a poison made from herbs so my baby dies*
Oops looks like my baby died but it wasn't a murder, it was a natural death. 100% legal and moral.

Murder of an unborn isn’t as bad as the death penalty from an economic standpoint. Just imagine the resources put into raising a person and we just inject them and die? For shame. Now I’m not arguing sunk cost, but a new born really hasn’t had a whole lot invested into them other than some calories.

In terms of war, innocence of civilians is debatable and we're rightly shocked when we see soldiers killing people we know are innocent.

If somebody drinks a poison with the intention of killing the baby then that would be murder. Are you really having this hard of a time understanding?

Grandma died of cancer from the factory moving in next door 30 years ago.

Okay? Then they should be held liable.

I'm merely stating that you wouldn't be alive to be having this conversation if you were capable of being truthful, because you would have committed suicide already if you ever saw yourself as you really are. You can't run from the truth forever. You'll either have to change or face destruction.

government and will of the people are separate, as in the case in most countries
see: america

Why do you hate women user? It's not their fault you're not sexually appealing to any of us :(

it isn't logically consistent to criminalize abortion because then suicide should also be illegal and suicide shouldn't be illegal because that "sucks". wow this guy is fucking smart upvote!!

Back to the kiddie table.

I don't know what you're talking about.

>Y-you can't exist according to my dogmatic believes!! W-why? Because I said so.
huh, really makes you think.

Your reading comprehension is flawed. You can exist through self-deception.

Yea Forums - literature

and fuck child murderers

Is the morning after pill abortifacent?
I get diametrically opposite answers from pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

Do these videos exist for any other reason than self-congratulation and the dissemination of talking points.

Only in your worldview, which is warped by your mental illness

Abortion is a murder. Zygote is already a human that's developing in quantity. End of discussion.
>muh consciousness
Would getting a comatose man out of life support be considered murder?
>muh it can't support itself
Nor can a newborn infant or handless old grandpa
And get that continental retard out of here.

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You might get different answers because there are different pills. Does it directly cause the death of a human being and is that its only purpose? If yes then it's murder.

From the saintly scholars of the thread I’d assume any form of birth control is against gods will and makes you a baby murderer.

It's the time of day for you to dilate sweetie

Wow, is butterfly actually based for once?

actually true, according to christian thought sex with condoms is murder and you have to use a "family planning calendar" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning

If a zygote is already a human then isn’t a sperm human? All it needs is an egg, just as a zygote just needs time. Encouragement. Love. Calories. What’s the extra step for?

£££

>Yea Forums is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing,

the next bit is the important bit

>If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/.

I wish all the christ and pol fags would leave.

That's the point, one side says yes it's murder because it inhibits the fertilized egg to implant in the utero, the other side says it prevents the egg from getting fertilized.
"Neutral" scientific websites support the latter. Religious websites the former.
When it comes to different drugs, it's all chalked up.

No, it isn't and fuck our school system for not holding you back for failing basic biology.

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."

-Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects

Drugs are a sin. All remedies should be through the sheer will of god.

>Why would people be so adamantly for invasion of a persons bodily autonomy
You're the one trying to kill babies man
>People die by government intervention all the time. People murder each other all the time. Millions of animals are murdered for the sake of food all the time. We crush bugs that bite us and put down pets that grow too old to play
1) Government kills people under the concession of the people. To maintain the state of order and continuation.
2) Death is a issue, because citizens don't go around killing each other unpunished.
3) That HAS to be something seriously wrong with you to dedicate the same level of empathy you do to a bug or a cow for an unborn member of your own species.
>false sense of superiority
It's called moral retard, every society has one, even one that kills infants have an hierarchy of values in which to judge others, you people are just too narcissistic to own it, that's why liberals are among the most hypocrites assholes.
>the scared, uneducated, and elderly.
and here to prove my point, the zero-sum mentality, that only someone so self-absorbed can have. You should seriously consider suicide, it's clinically impossible to treat someone like you.

It’s anyone bringing up politics shit, not just people you don’t like doing it

I'm christian but in my environment condoms and birth control are frowned upon as immoral, but not considered straight homicide as abortion.
You might live among bible belters

If it stops an egg from implanting, that's killing a human being. If it prevents fertilization then that's just a contraceptive. No human exists to be killed. The people who are against contraception have unrelated reasons to be against it, and it has nothing to do with abortion.

>muh pol bogeyman
The thread was made by a left winger you fucking retard.

>cites sources on 4chin
If I had a tumor or tape worm growing in me, it would be my choice to remove it right?

Self-deception is the basis of mental illness, liar. I'm not going to call you mentally ill or crazy. I'm going to call you insane. If you don't know the definition of insanity, look it up. Hint: it has to do with morality.

I propose, then, that we grant that the fetus is a person from the moment of conception. How does the argument go from here? Something like this, I take it. Every person has a right to life. So the fetus has a right to life. No doubt the mother has a right to decide what shall happen in and to her body; everyone would grant that. But surely a person's right to life is stronger and more stringent than the mother's right to decide what happens in and to her body, and so outweighs it. So the fetus may not be killed; an abortion may not be performed.
It sounds plausible. But now let me ask you to imagine this. You wake up in the morning and find yourself at a port in Boeotia with an innocent girl. Your daughter. The seas are stormy and un-navigable, and the oracles have canvassed all the available records and found that she alone can be sacrificed to calm them. To kill her would be to calm the ocean. But never mind, it's only for nine months. By then the waves will have calmed from the present storm, and you can safely lay siege to Troy.
Is it morally incumbent on you to accede to this situation? No doubt it would be very nice of you if you did, a great kindness. But do you have to accede to it? What if it were not nine months, but nine years? Or longer still? What if the oracle says, "Tough luck, I agree, but you've now got to port, with your living daughter, for the rest of your life. Because remember this. All persons have a right to life, and your daughter is a persons. Granted you have a right to decide what happens in and to your body, but a person's right to life outweighs your right to decide what happens in and to your body. So you cannot ever sacrifice her." I imagine you would regard this as outrageous,[2] which suggests that something really is wrong with that plausible-sounding argument I mentioned a moment ago.

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Yeah a lot of things are sins I sin a lot of times but fuck me I want to know if maybe I killed a baby by the morning pill or I just acted immorally.
ASKING FOR A FRIEND

does this tumor would grow to become an adult ? does the tape worm have human dna ?

Pot calling the kettle black. The post.

i wish i were aborted

You presuppose people have a right to live. Who the fuck decided that.
From your reaction, the decision between the two isn't going to calm the guilt you have now built within you. You'll carry that weight until you forget about it or die, so does it really matter?

Unironically this is what happens when you remove god. Normies, who will never know any real truth anyway, will default to the state as the highest authority instead of an idealised judge of moral perfection. When the state, or whichever party within it they support becomes the highest authority, whatever political whims it supports become gospel. They could get these people to do anything.

wait no that was terrible lemme try again:

I propose, then, that we grant that a girl is a person from the moment of conception. How does the argument go from here? Something like this, I take it. Every person has a right to life. So the fetus has a right to life. No doubt the general has a right to decide what shall happen in and to his army; everyone would grant that. But surely a person's right to life is stronger and more stringent than the general's right to decide what happens in and to his army, and so outweighs it. So the daughter may not be killed; a sacrifice may not be performed.
It sounds plausible. But now let me ask you to imagine this. You wake up in the morning and find yourself at a port in Boeotia with an innocent girl. Your daughter. The seas are stormy and unnavigable, and the oracles have canvassed all the available records and found that she alone can be sacrificed to calm them. To kill her would be to calm the ocean. But never mind, it's only for nine months. By then the waves will have calmed from his storm, and you can safely lay siege to Troy.
Is it morally incumbent on you to accede to this situation? No doubt it would be very nice of you if you did, a great kindness. But do you have to accede to it? What if it were not nine months, but nine years? Or longer still? What if the oracle says, "Tough luck, I agree, but you've now got to stay in port, with your living daughter, for the rest of your life. Because remember this. All persons have a right to life, and your daughter is a person. Granted you have a right to decide what happens in and to your army, but a person's right to life outweighs your right to decide what happens in and to your army. So you cannot ever sacrifice her." I imagine you would regard this as outrageous,[2] which suggests that something really is wrong with that plausible-sounding argument I mentioned a moment ago.

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No, but they get bigger. My sweet gentle tumor baby.

Would you consider your disabled grandfather that was dumped on you by fate a "tumor" or a "tape worm"?

He died of cancer after 20 years, so in those last days where I had to pick him up to move him, yes.

You're cute. I can get mad at you and your tumor you call brain.

>I truly regret not being aborted
If that were true you'd have killed yourself you lying faggot.

get this ugly retard out of my anime website

> the decision between the two isn't going to calm the guilt you have now built within you.
Yes, but I'd like to get a clear answer because it could happen again (not that I plan it to happen, but it could). At least who commits an abortion knows what's going on.
This shouldn't be fucking chalked up.
For instance: should a rape victim take a morning after pill and can simply consider it a contraception?

I don't think we should kill innocent children for the crimes of their progenitors.

:3
Well, look up what type of medication you slipped into the girls coffee you fuck. It depends on the kind of medication if it kills or just disrupts the cycle. But a jesus freak would say even at the point that you took the one that doesn't out right kill the cell, you prevented federalization, which is murder in its own right. Youre fucked either way m8 when youre trying to look for penance.

>But a jesus freak would say even at the point that you took the one that doesn't out right kill the cell, you prevented federalization, which is murder in its own right.
No, they wouldn't say that.

You're the worst kind of evil - the one that thinks it does good. You will burn in hell, you lowest of the low pro-suffering scum.

>2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P86.HTM

They're saying contraception is evil, not that it's killing a human being. They wouldn't say that because it's fucking retarded.

>Well, look up what type of medication you slipped into the girls coffee you fuck.
U-uh? W-why are y-you saying that? I DIDN'T DO THAT DESU

I hate how every philosophy podcast or youtube channel is done by retarded leftists.

Finally a sensible post.

They're saying that prevention IS murder

Pints with Aquinas is good.

No, they aren't. There is no human being to murder prior to conception. Contraception prevents conception. They're saying contraception is an evil, not that's it's killing anyone.

Jesus Christ man.

Do y'all seriously want even more niggers to flood your cities? I think abortion being an option is fine as is.

Hey I'll just pull a plastic bag over your head and prevent your breathing, I'm not killing you, just preventing you from breathing.

There is half a human being that need only it's other half. You are in the way of that union. That is murder my child.

Putting a plastic bag over my head would be killing a human being since I am a human which exists. Preventing a human from coming into existence is not killing a human. Both of you are dumb cunts.

"Althought life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed."

-Human Embryology & Teratology, 3rd edition pg. 8

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."

-Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects

"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."

-Langman's Medical Embryology

I don't support abortion. I believe in good and evil. I know the abortion is evil. I have a sense of morality. I happily call anyone who rejects the existence of good and evil and uses that as an excuse to support an evil like abortion insane.

Then why aren't fetuses citizens?

You are a fool. The difference is enormous.

Now that I have been brought into the world, I can no longer remove myself from it without suffering pain or bringing pain onto others through my death.

An abortion is little to no suffering in comparison, for there is really no "me" to get attached to-either for myself, or for others.

Only christcucks believe that life possesses inherent value lmao.

Because you suck dicks

>bodily autonomy is inherently good
The body is only worth as much as it can do for the state, and increasing that means limiting its autonomy.

>I'll just draw arbitrary lines and call everyone else stupid
maybe you really should put that bag on your head

You're a delusional scumbag. Stop giving actual good Christians a bad reputation. It is not my right to condemn you, but you will burn in hell.

...

Your judgement of me is meaningless and even as you speak it the words turn to ash in your mouth. Abortion is evil and you're evil for supporting it. No actual good Christian cares what you think. I'd say you're delusional because you think that you're a good person for supporting the murder of unborn babies, but I think at some level you have to be aware of what kind of person you are.

Checkmate gaytheist, don't need to abort when youre trying to impregnate a man, cause you just got fuccccccccccccked.

I'm not gonna read even a sentence of your reactionary drivel.

>I don't believe in hell but Christians who advocate Christian morality surely will go there
Literally not even an argument.

The individual human body is almost always what stands in the way of civilizational greatness. I’m generally supportive of abortion, but to assert an inherent goodness in individual autonomy is narcissistic to the point of being silly.

I don't believe I have the moral high ground, I just put more value on women having the choice to get rid of an unwanted baby more than the repercussion of murder.

Perhaps if you read more you wouldn't be wrong about everything.

>Would getting a comatose man out of life support be considered murder?
comatose man has connections with other people who consider him still alive, regardless whether it's possible for him to wake up.
Then someone who killed a twin shouldn't go to jail and killing a chimera should count as rwo murders.
Good job equivocating life as seen by biology (genes) and a person.

This isn't about Christian morality in the slightest, it's about power-hungry cruel and authoritarian pseudo-Christians thinking they have a right to decide what other people do. That's the opposite of Christian morality

>I don't believe I have the moral high ground
Good, because you don't. You're wrong.

>I just put more value on women having the choice to get rid of an unwanted baby more than the repercussion of murder
You're a murder like your father, the devil.

Case in point, a spawn of Satan pretending to be Christian

Actually, this is about power-hungry cruel and authoritarian Satanic nihilists thinking they have the right to murder unborn babies, which is the opposite of Christian morality. Cheers.

I wish the devil was my dad. At least he would have been there for me.

You call good evil and evil good. You admit that you're a murderer. You're a liar to the core of your being. Repent of this mortal sin of supporting the murder of the unborn.

Women are going to have abortions anyway though??????? this way is just safer????????

Schizo

>it's a liberal comes from a broken home episode
Never saw that coming.

>the Satan worshipper said as he chewed on a carcass of an animal that had actual feelings and 10 times the intelligence of an unborn fetus, and yet he sees no hypocrisy because he's pure evil and exists only to sow discord

>unborn
If they were lives before why do we define the distinction of being born or unborn as any importance?

You're not a Christian, you're a at best a confused larper, and at worst a literal devil in human form

I'm telling you I should have been aborted. FACTS DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS.

Imagine this but someone saying it in real life and not on Yea Forums.

10/10 meme but there is absolutely no way to advance this viewpoint without rightfully seeming psychotic.

That's why the only counterpoints you hear on the news for example are religious. Its the socially acceptable form of psychosis.

You're advocating murdering babies. You're pure evil. If we met in real life and I knew what kind of person you are, I wouldn't even shake your hand or share a meal with you. You're viscerally disgusting.

I don't know. Maybe because the unborn are especially vulnerable by virtue of it being legal to kill them?

I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is Lord. His law is the law. You are a murderer and a liar and a false accuser, just like your father, Satan.

They aren't people, they aren't babbies, they barely are a lump of flesh. You aren't advocating for life, you're advocating for suffering of both the mother and the future baby.

>to assert an inherent goodness in individual autonomy is narcissistic to the point of being silly.
I'm not the person you were responding to. Freedom is the greatest happiness, and there is an inherent good in happiness, therefore freedom is the greatest good, which is what we have been given; freedom to steal, cheat, murder and lie, as well as the perfect freedom to refrain from those things. Greater than refraining from those things is acquiring the freedom of the impulses to commit those misdeeds, but that is another matter. There is a question whether or not it is evil to abort an unborn child - I think it is. It can be argued that one being freed from the responsibility of having a child could then incur happiness, but that happiness is temporary, and they are not freed from the moral doubt of whether or not what they did was the right thing to do. Until that question is resolved there can be no freedom, and it is a more difficult question to dismiss than "what would my life be like if I aborted my child?"
But individual autonomy is important to civilisational greatness. What is great about a civilisation of serfs and slaves?

Morally or materially supporting abortion is a mortal sin in Christian canon law. You're accusing someone of not being a Christian and of being a demon for advocating Christian morality. You're a false accuser, which is a kind of liar. Why are you a liar?

You can dehumanize your victims all you want. That doesn't absolve you of being an accessory in their murders.

I'm a Christian, and unlike you I am one not because of delusions. You're a scum of the earth, your kind is the one that burned witches at the pyres. Your kind are not Christians, just cruel pagans/Satanists thirsty for suffering, wanting everything to be done their delusional way.

You're the one dehumanizing the mothers.

If you support sin, you are not a Christian. Abortion is a sin. Your master is the devil, false accuser.

>spends dozens of posts saying that babies aren't humans
>n-no you're the one dehumanizing!
Murderer.

Blasphemer

law != ethics
the distinction is made to simplify things, essentially.

Abortion is a sin. You advocate for sin and condemn those who renounce sin. You are an unrepentant sinner and a false accuser. Your master is sin. Your master is Satan. You cannot serve two masters. You are not a Christian.

The law can be overly complicated if it wants to. I don't see why the law would necessitate the need to simplify the idea. The post Roe jurisprudence shows that.

dw but dv

Abortion is murder. But it's good.
Kill the lil' fuckers.

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yeah, well suck my uncut cock

Who the fuck has time to watch this shit? These left-wing YouTubers and Ben Shapiro-types need to fuck off and die.

you people are all loonies

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i don't give a fuck about abortion but seeing who's in favor of pushing it, i'll take a stance against it.

enjoy your company among christian fundies

as idiotic as they are, i'd take 100 /pol/acks with bibles over 1 faggot/tranny/roastie/unironic leftist.

to each their own I guess

Yea Forums - Youtube Videos

This is the most retarded shit I've seen in the last month. I'd rather watch pewdiepie book reviews and jerk off to trannies.

bas ed

Lmao why do lefties hate kids so much, maybe theyd be less of faggots if they had some.... wait is that what theyre scared of?

when will he admit his errors in his "takedown" of antinatalism?

he doesn't strike me as the type of guy to admit his own errors

Lmao why do rightoids love kids so much, maybe theyd be less of pedos if there were less kids... wait is that what theyre scared of?

See what starts happening to women when we legalize murder bitch

Wait is the actual message at the end of this video that personal autonomy is more important than ending the suffering of others? Because it's not. If I own land, and there are people living on it and a fire starts, I should help them, just because I dont want to doesn't mean shit.

Your autonomy isnt shit

>I should help them
why?

Liberals don't understand the difference between moral duty and Jewish lawyer twistings. They can not physically understand doing something because its the right thing to do

Don't really care about this argument but this is LITERALLY like saying "people will kill eachother anyway, why outlaw it?"
Literally because the position you're arguing against asserts that an unborn baby is a human life.

I'll admit that there are some good left wing youtubers.
But this guy is not one of them.

So did they finally figure out when it becomes a human being? Or is it more of a 'killing is good sometimes' kind of argument?

>I'll admit that there are some good left wing youtubers.
Jimmy Dore is the only good one and I'm pretty sure he's not even Left Wing anymore

Law is driven by politics, not by the search of the Truth, nor by ethics.
If it gets overcomplicated it's because there is a political turmoil over some shit, not because it required more intellectual insights.
Take guns in the US: you have several "assault bans", complicated laws and regulations about things like barrel lengths, stocks, magazine capacities in some states etc.
Do they make sense? In general, very little. But the political debate around those petty things constantly churns out a considerable amount if votes.

because if you dont they would suffer and suffering is bad

are you pulling a sam harris on me?
why is suffering bad

Don't fall into his accountant meme ethics. We don't measure the worth of our flesh in grams

Then why should people have kids anymore? That would end suffering forever

Because i feel that it's right, because I've been raised in a society that expects and praises those qualities in me.
Don't see the point in trying to justify base assumption more than that.
I mean it's beneficial to society but that's not actually why i'd do it.

itc Hoes mad

Me personally, I support exactly what you said. I'm not religious, but am spiritual, and think abortion is a great horror - but so long as horrors like r*pe exist in our world, women must be allowed the option. It should not be available for anyone to perform for any reason - there must be a very limited list of scenarios whereby the operation is granted to a woman, and it must always be done on a case-by-case basis. It would be horrible to live in a society where people treated abortion casually. Yet it would also be horrible for women to have to give birth to children that belonged to a r*pist of theirs, or whose delivery has a high likelihood of ending their life. If you do take the spiritual perspective, as Christian pro-lifers do, then you naturally believe the soul a) exists and b) is immortal in nature, surviving after bodily death, therefore you must naturally agree that abortion, though horrible, has only ended the infant's biological incarnation, with it's soul remaining unharmed. And if you take the perspective of reincarnation as I do, then my belief is that said soul will layer incarnate in another vessel suitable for itself.

This is funny taken as satire, but mean if not. Stop it. You have to be kind to others.

Well for example childbirth causes massive suffering to the mother, why should she suffer if it's preventable? Slaving away without pay is suffering, but it gives massive economic gain to the society, why should it be outlawed then?
Another one is some people might enjoy suffering and actively seek it.

> pro-suffering
> hell
What, an utilitarian who believes in hell? Pure nonsense.

Sperm do not become humans if undisturbed, fertilized ovum do.

Not that I support abortion, but technically your God himself killed infants too just a few thousand years ago, so...

(Not that I suppo

>enjoy suffering
ok buddy

>what is masochism

they shouldn't

bad poetry

suffering is bad because its an unpleasant feeling, its badness is inherent in the feeling. Even if suffering is instrumentally good (necessary suffering) it is only good as a means to ending future suffering.

But go ahead attack my argument by saying "lol sam harris xd"

faggots

it's enjoying pain, not suffering.

>suffering is bad because its an unpleasant feeling
Not for me when you feel it fucker. It would actually make me feel good

if you enjoy suffering then its not really suffering.

It's sort of like if you enjoy rape its not rape

>as a means to ending future suffering.
ok, let's end the human race then and eradicate suffering altogether. sure we might need to kill/sterilize everyone, but their suffering is necessary to ending all suffering.

>if you enjoy suffering then its not really suffering.
>it's enjoying pain, not suffering.

Contradiction in terms

I don't know if you read my post or what. But childbirth is the same kind of charity that had already been described and being a slave is not any kind of charity or altruism.
>People enjoy suffering
Not particularly relevent but i really think that just because the facial abuse girl says she loves it afterward doesn't mean what's happening to her is good. Boner + consent is not all that matters.

>if you enjoy rape its not rape
sweaty....

Very interesting perspective. What are the lotteries, then, for all the species of nature? Which one is most likely incarnated as? Is it based on population? I also have wondered how one species becomes another, incarnationally - how does a dog, possessing a dog's soul, become a man? Is it gradual, or sudden? Gradual would make more sense, but even so, I can't figure how it might work.

Our ignorance to the extraphysical realities of nature is infinite.

thats what I believe though

then one can enjoy pain without it being suffering, it still doesnt make suffering good in any sense

No user they have to do it out of their *gasp* free will by me convincing them not too because your scenario causes suffering!

For such a small percentage of abortion cases, it's sure brought up to defend all abortion a lot

Someone had a brain fart. The point is that we do have multiple words for the same thing, so observing that we have the word 'fetus' and the word 'baby' tells us nothing about whether they are the same thing or not.

>then one can enjoy pain without it being suffering
Makes no sense. What is pain if its not suffering

necessary suffering (the end of the world or mass omnicide is okay though) because it leads to the greater good (no suffering) so therefore it is justifiable

Because roasties would have to admit they fucked up, god forbid

>if you enjoy something it cannot be suffering as suffering is the opposite of enjoying something

Pain is not the same as suffering, because you can enjoy it. Many people enjoy main as pain is another sensation that can feel good to some

I'm not inconsistent with my argument

lmao based

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>Pain is not the same as suffering
Makes no sense. Define both of these terms where this notion makes any sense.
To anyone on Earth pain and suffering are synonyms

Not le sam harris guy but
>Life is suffering man
Not rly, 90% of the time it's ok to good.

genetic stock of a shrek character

>suffering - pleasure dualism
user...
explain cuckoldry then, they're not inflicted pain directly, but they revel in suffering by being humiliated
maybe hes thinking about physical pain only

>Not rly, 90% of the time it's ok to good.
Fucking normie

have sex

>maybe hes thinking about physical pain only
Physical pain is always suffering. If a feeling wasn't suffering we wouldn't call it pain

Holy fucking based

If men were the ones that got pregnant abortion would be legal and there would be tech that sucked the babies out sold in every walmart and the bible would say it was fine.

As someone who had a bit of a cuck problem at one point, it's something that gives you a boner and a compulsion, like a nervous tick. It's not something that actually makes you feel good.

Then you've already picked your side, idiotic falseflagger

Both sexes are biased in favor of the wellbeing of women actually.

Shut up NPC

Extremely based my dude

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If something arouses you, is it not pleasurable :?

even if you enjoy being humiliated you are not suffering, the only way you could enjoy suffering is if you enjoy hating being humilated, but then you can only enjoy it after or before the fact
even if someone does enjoy suffering most dont, but im not convinced, if you enjoy something you dont dislike it and therefor the pain is still pain but it isnt suffering

Nigger i'm up at 2:30am, just about to go to bed, cuddle my mlp plushy and talk to her about my day for a while before i kiss her and say goodnight.
You're literally just a fag.

That there is a whole different level of suffering than my misery

person x enjoys being whipped
person y dislikes being whipped
does whipping cause happiness or suffering?

>humans consider miscarriage tragic, and an infant's death
>kill a pregnant woman and you're charged a double homicide
>the eggs of endangered species are protected just as much as the hatched are
How do people actually pretend it's not a termination of human life?

I’m pro choice, men should be able to force women to get abortions.

It's a horrible maelstrom of pleasure and suffering, the suffering is stronger though, and longer lasting.

its relative to the person.

which is why its okay to whip person x.

But on average whipping is most likely to cause suffering while not whipping does not. So it is best to stay away from whipping.

You cant like suffering.

the suffering is not real suffering though, its not true suffering

I don't even support abortion (though it should be available for select cases), but you're completely right. All the people here who harbor racist views, desire race wars against those races they hate, civil wars against their political opposition, the culling of society's least capable members, supporting wars against nations they despise, condoning the military industrial complex wherever it aligns with their own politics, who have eaten factory-farmed (i.e satanically tortured) meat every day of their lives and never once felt guilty for their indirect killing of animals (including babies, yes, animals are all babies too at some point, what a shock), who are rude and inconsiderate to other people every week of their life - now, NOW, when the topic of abortion is raised, become the greatest moral puritans the world has yet observed, arguing that "life is sacred" while hardly upholding such a position in every other area of their own lives. Those same babies you profess such an otherworldly concern for are the ones who, after just 15 years of existence, would hold as little sympathy towards as you do most other groups of people in your daily life, who you have not admitted into your personal in-group. This board and the other related areas of the internet are a glimpse of such political, racial, religious, and other forms of tribalism that you spend your days in.

If you want to argue for the sacredness of life, try actually embodying it in as many other aspects of life that you can (anti-war, anti-meat, anti-inequality, etc) and more people will take your positions seriously. Otherwise, you just resemble those same "virtue signallers" on the Left whom you hate so greatly.

Normalfag obsessed with his
>XD i'm so depressed that makes me DEEP
Persona, no real interests, boring person afraid of imagining anything outside of his immediate experience. Sad that he doesn't have a GF and deeply resents women.

You're life doesn't seem too good, my life lookin pretty good tho

>do people actually pretend it's not a termination of human life?
No dude they just don’t care lol, get to playing 4d chess and attack what really matters to the lefty, themselves.

My suffering is greater than everyone elses. This is true and due in large part to my enormous IQ. I don't pretend otherwise

Why do people condemn murderers?

I didn't know God kills 1 in 3 babies? holy shit, can someone explain why he does it?

because murder is a morally justifiable crime because personal autonomy and freedom is superseded by the possible suffering that life entails.

He doesn't really like people, read the bible

What about the life of the fetus

>REEEEEEEE GIB SAFE SPace
No

It's not outrageous. The obviously right thing is to not sacrifice the daughter, then wonder why you think you can lead an army and still be a good person.

That's a lot of words to say little more than "if you aren't Christ, you can't have a moral stance"

its justifiable as now one should have to endure existence

Not liking someone is not the same as wanting them to die, also i don't care about animals dying.
Even wanting to assert your territorial borders/dominance/ideology aren't the same as just wanting people to die.

The left literally can’t survive in an uncontrolled space, they make no arguments at all because they’re just a bunch of narcissistic brainlets who have always lived in their unchallenged bubbles. Thank god that narcissism also makes them unable to accept people with other views and they’re all running on Yea Forums like lemmings off a cliff, exposing their idiocy where they have no powers of censoring to save them.

People are hypocrites, it's easier on the conscience that way

So if you’re anti suffering shouldn’t you just be anti sex? Isn’t it completely unacceptable having to murder to prevent suffering if you could have avoided both?

Always stuns me how leftists seem to always talk as if the idea that anyone in the room could disagree with them. Like right wingers are some distant boogeymen, not the actual people sitting in front of them.

>the idea that anyone in the room could disagree with them
*doesn't cross their mind

yes

I am anti sex

person y whips person x
person y perceives it as causing suffering to x and enjoys it
person x enjoys being whipped and perceives it as pleasure, but according to you because x enjoys it it can't be suffering therefore y won't be able to enjoy it.
So why is y whipping x then? Where does his enjoyment come from?.

I hate this faggot so god damn much

You can have a moral stance, but people are less likely to take it seriously if you adamantly promote it in one single arena, while violating it in virtually every other area of your life. Also, please don't pretend people on this side of the internet and political spectrum are "not Christ", we're talking about some of the most degenerate individuals on the internet.

The point is that you display limited empathy and compassion for other beings in most other instances of conversation, but turn into the most devoutly considerate, compassionate, moralistic souls when a single form of a single species (since none of you give a damn about any other animal, as you yourself said) is brought under discussion. Also, others who support abortion can simply argue that humans are merely a species of animal, and that the life of a human infant is hardly more valuable than that of another creature's.

This

His mom should’ve aborted him

>we're talking about some of the most degenerate individuals on the internet
Presumably you're talking about /pol/, and the typical position there is that they want abortion for minorities. They ARE ideologically consistent.

Based

If they support abortion in one case and not for another, they are inconsistent on abortion position. If they advocate the sacredness of life and simultaneously wish to fight and/or murder their political rivals, they are inconsistent on their "sacredness of life" position.

This is wrong - sperm cells aren't human beings with unique dna - Catholics receive a latae sententiae excommunication for procuring an abortion, but only commit a mortal sin without canonical penalty by masturbating

Yup, sadly.

They literally are not! evil DOES NOT EQUAL murder - the church condemns plenty of things as intrinsically evil.

yeah no shit, weeds grow if you don't tend your garden, illness spreads if you neglect sanitation, and right wing "thought" proliferates when there's no censorship.

So you admit it is censorship

Very weak considering the sexualization of children under the guise of LGBT has been a major factor in pushing people right or radicalizing them.

of course I admit it, if you want kvetching right/left wingers left you can go back to ribbit. censorship is a useful tool and it should be used to its fullest extent.

>sexual children creates more right wing people
really makes you think

Why do people here have so much more sympathy for murder of the unborn than murder against the living? Only one of them has a life history behind them, and the cappacity to feel physical pain - both of which bring them to actually suffer upon being killed by another. The death of the unborn, while symbolically a terrible event, does not bring with it any of the suffering found when the living die. And yet, I never hear any of the people here crying about the atrocities of war, or the necessity for greater compassion towards others. You love conflict in every other area, and live your lives helping fuel it by your words, memes and actions - when your enemies die, you couldn't care less, seeing it as good for society and even a source of joy - if those enemies are presently in their earliest statw of existence(which they all were a mere 20-30 years ago), you mourn like it were the world's greatest tragedy. You love fetuses and desperately campaign for their survival, while hating the adult forms they all eventually become, itching to dish out violence against them should the situation ever allow for it, even going so far as m*rder.

Yeah, that's enough internet for me today.

The pro-choice argument totally falls apart when they accept the condition that an unborn fetus's life is morally equivalent to an adult human's life. This video completely showcases that and he comes across looking like a total clown.

i agree i really hate the gay theatrics here

/pol/ is undeniably the cultural zeitgeist of the website, and inarguably of a large part of the internet. So, even when people have genuine racial preferences, the constant /pol/ brand pants-shitting reactions isn't a coincidence or just how people naturally actualize their racial preferences.

Natural racial preferences, and even racism, isn't even vocal or, if it is, it's more subtle. Basically pic related but with actions and words.

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I'm sorry but life is sacred and even in the scenario of rape no woman or man has the right to extinguish that life.

If I was slapped in the face by a stranger it isn't my right to slap another stranger in retribution

why slap a mosquito then

You slap a mosquito when it bites you. You don't slap a random mosquito because a previous one bit you in retaliation you fool.

>humans consider miscarriage tragic, and an infant's death
because there was a desire for that child to be born, and wasn't as much of a tragedy in the ancient world since it happened so often
>kill a pregnant woman and you're charged a double homicide
shouldn't be double homicide if the woman was on her way to an abortion clinic
>the eggs of endangered species are protected just as much as the hatched are
eggs are outside the body
yeah and you slap a fetus out of existence when it bites into your nutrients

>yeah and you slap a fetus out of existence when it bites into your nutrients
You're directly responsible for the fetus's existence though.

you're directly responsible for every unwanted thing that happens to you

>because there was a desire for that child to be born
>shouldn't be double homicide if the woman was on her way to an abortion clinic
We've finally figured it out everyone. Human status is dependant on the mother's feelings. Open season on all physical organisms whose mothers don't feel like they want them anymore.

Oh, I'm sorry that women are just walking around and then suddenly a pregnancy fly bites them and they get pregnant. It most definitely isn't the result of a entire series of different conscious actions culminating in them consensually doing the one and only thing that leads to child birth.
Fuck off, take responsibility.

This might be one of the most pathetic things I have ever read.

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>Open season on all physical organisms whose mothers don't feel like they want them anymore.
no just clump of cells inside of mothers who don't want them, and by open season I mean going to a medical school and becoming a doctor
9 months of pregnancy leads to childbirth

Only PiV sex can lead to conception, which is where life starts. If you don't want to conceive a child, don't have PiV sex.

>which is where life starts.
and ends 1/3 of the time naturally, and spermatozoa are alive as well

People die of natural causes, so let's murder them.

>because there was a desire for that child to be born
>shouldn't be double homicide if the woman was on her way to an abortion clinic
>no just clump of cells inside of mothers who don't want them
So one clump of cells can alternate between being a human and not being a human within the timespan of a second depending on the mother's desires?

"people"

See, denying humanity from human beings is what pro-choice people fallback on whenever they can't win an argument.

I don't see why it has to be black and white, one has the potential to be a human being the other is not a human being and did not have the potential to be one

how many people have you killed while watching porn? see denying the humanity of sperm is what pro-life people fallback on

Life starts at conception.

sperm is as alive as any other cells

All human life has X and Y chromosomes, not just one or the other, as is the case with sperm. A embryo is also a developing person, unlike, say, alive cells of your body with X and Y chromosomes.

every sperm has the potential to become a person so wasting is destroying potential persons

I'm not sure I follow the black and white note. Maybe you can make that clearer since I'm trying to be charitable and not assume you're retarded. All I'm trying to do is understand your basis for granting human status and how logically consistent it is. And I'm only going by what you say.
>one has the potential to be a human being the other is not a human being and did not have the potential to be one
So is human status only achieved post-pregnancy? This contradicts your claim that if the clump of cells is wanted, human status is achieved and killing a pregnant woman should be treated as double homicide. Is "potential" for human status solely determined by the mother's desires? Up to what point? Does technology continually lowering the age for the developmental viability of said clump of cells outside of the womb play any role in "potential"?

Also, does "potential" outweigh cases in which the mother understands that sex may lead to pregnancy and that her body is vital in the development of said clump of cells? To take the violinist analogy, does entering a contract by which you consent to potentially having a violinist attached to you as a form of life support for 9 months in order to save his life grant you the right to end it at will once you wake up with him attached to you? What if the contract stipulates consent to actual attachment, rather than possible attachment?

It's not an actively developing human life. Stop the bullshit.

What I'm saying is that a woman's intent is important.
>To take the violinist analogy, does entering a contract by which you consent to potentially having a violinist attached to you as a form of life support for 9 months in order to save his life grant you the right to end it at will once you wake up with him attached to you?
a violinist is a person, a better analogy would be waking up next to a group of cells that has the potential to be a baby one day, in which case yes, you should have the right to leave the cells
if you don't waste your sperm today a particular cell could become a particular person tomorrow (not for you of course because that would imply you having sex), what makes you think that God didn't intend a particular cell made at a particular time in your body to become a person, and that every time you masturbate you stray farther away from god's wishes and create sperm that are also farther away from god's wishes and are therefore demonic and satanic and may god have mercy on your seed wasting soul and your deformed evil children

Right, so human status is granted when both are satisfied:
1) the mother desires to fulfil the pregnancy
2) the pregnancy is fulfilled and the clump of cells survives
Why would the killing of a pregnant woman who wishes to fulfil the pregnancy be a double homicide then if it only satisfies 1? You need to make up your mind about this human thing.

>Brings God into it
Wew lad

>Why would the killing of a pregnant woman who wishes to fulfil the pregnancy be a double homicide
because it's up to the woman, not you, she made the choice to go through incubation, are you asking why does intent matter? Why should a woman be able to decide?

Right, so you change your tune again and discard 2. Fine. Back to the original question then.
Can one clump of cells can alternate between being a human and not being a human within the timespan of a few seconds, depending on the mother's desires?

I'm . In case it wasn't clear, I don't think human status has anything to do with a woman's intent, or desires. If you're not the user I was previously talking to, at least bother following the reply chain you fucking idiot.

nah. if someone killed a pregnant woman, and they wanted to convict of double homicide, she'd have to have been pregnant for a while (time up to the courts), and have been intending to have the baby for a while as well (has to be proven by witness testimony), if she was pregnant for 3 weeks and on her way to the abortion clinic then no, not double murder

>nah
Okay, then it's not intent alone that grants human status. I really wish you'd have hashed this out on your own, rather than thinking publicly.
>if she was pregnant for 3 weeks and on her way to the abortion clinic
Ah yes, but the question revolved around her intent being to deliver the clump of cells.
So what is it then? Time+intent that grants human status?