Is Brahman an accurate description of God or is God a trinity?

That’s what the characters in the SIMS are saying about humans. Do you like infinite regress?

The Christian Trinity can best be understood through Advaita Vedant, Brahman or the godhead is the Father, Maya his creative principle as is the Holy Spirit, the hand of the Father, the appearance of Brahman in Maya (which is also ultimatly Brahman) is Ishvara, as the Indian proverb says: the father is born (again) through the son, Ishavara is Christ, the God acting in this world, it is only possible to know God through Christ as it is only possible to know Brahman (which is above all knowledge as well) through knowing Ishvara

I know this is not considered orthodox by most Christians

Yes.

>can't distinguish between god as the unmanifest and god as manifest triune principle
>haha dude memes

Literally what all the other religions are ripped off of

Zoroastrianism is older than Hinduism.

ahah so epic brown people btfo

We don't actually know that. the Vedas are very often dated by experts to go back to around ~1,500 BC. The scholars are about evenly divided on whether to date Zoroaster to around the 1,500-1,200 BC range near the Vedas or later around the 6th century BC. The is no evidence though that shows that the Zoroastrian texts or Zoroaster predate Hinduism, it's just empty speculation.

This is supposed to be very good but I have not read it yet

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>god manifests himself into contrarain warlord like savages
>god preaches drug crazed nonsense for his own (((glory)))
>tells you to completely ignore everything that god made
>because you will then become god
shitduism is just an older version of mormonism with pagan bullshit

Some elements of the Gathas are intelligible to read by Sanskrit scholars. As in it's so similar to rigvedic sanskrit that it's practically the same language.

Thanks for showing me this, I've been looking for books on Christianity from a perennial worldview but it's mostly just eastern stuff

Based and chaldpilled.

The Gathas most likely do not predate the Vedas, but there is a clear common tradition that predate them both.

The Rig Veda passed through a series of changes and developments to attain its original form. Also, the shruti tradition (oral) prevailed at that time, which was well before the registration of the hymns we know today. I think the Rig Veda is much older than what is commonly agreed today (~1500 BC).

Yes.
"Bhrameti paramatmeti bhagavan iti śabdyate" (bhagavatam 1.2.11) The Absolute Truth is called Bhrahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan

Would Plotinus and Shankara be bros or what would they argue about?

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Parmenides and Shankara would, not sure about Plotinus

What is the vedanta afterlife?

No, Brahman is based on Abraham, who was most likely the same person as Hammurabi.
eoht.info/page/Abraham and Brahma

> The Gathas most likely do not predate the Vedas

Why not?

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Metrically they have been simplified. We have a rough idea of what indo European meter looked like, mostly from Greek and Indic sources. They have fairly elaborate schemes of long vs. short syllables, where Gathic meters are just isosyllabic with fixed caesurae and ignore syllable length. That's clearly a later development, so one piece of evidence for Gathic posteriority.

Another is ideological. The Gathas subordinate all the Divine beings to Ahura Mazda. Indic and other IE religions have a looser pantheon. The Gathic pattern is different, so probably later.

That's two pieces of evidence, I'm not really up on the scholarship enough to quote more.

Both the Gathas and the Vedas almost certainly derive from a common Indo Iranian community that herded cattle, practiced the soma cult, had two categories of gods called asuras and daevas, etc etc. But the two daughter cultures went in slightly different directions with everything. Indic happened to attain canonical fixity first (probably) but the roots go back to the same place.

Reincarnation based on your karma in this life.

didn't Guenon say that reincarnation was a 19th century invention and rejected it completely?

It's definitely not a 19th century invention, as while I only know about Buddhism, it's all over the Pali canon and other scriptures. So even if Buddhism is false it's at least that old.

>"In universal existence, the return to the same state is an impossibilty; in total Possibility, those particular possibilities that are the states conditioned existence are necessarily indefinite (when Guenon says indefinite he means infinite) in number; to deny this is to try to limit possibility. One must admit it, on pain of contradiction, and that is enough to prevent any being from passing twice through the same state.

>"Vois, je me suis fait homme. Si vous refusiez de devenir dieu avec moi, vous serez injustes envers moi." - Carthusian monk

the question itself is flawed just follow whatever makes you feel best integrated with the world around you.

As an Indian person, the fact that animal sacrifice was once held as a sacred practise in my culture, and condoned by figures like Shankaracharya, troubles me greatly. Thankfully based Siddhartha and other figures rejected such barbarism. I'm vegetarian and feel disgusted I ate meat my whole life - I will never voluntarily consume animal flesh again.

Aside from that, the chakra system is very real. Meditate for some time, and soon enough your body will become sensitive enough for you to feel them whirring in there. One at the base of your bum, one in your pelvis, one in your solar plexus, one in your chest, one in your throat, one in your forehead, and one on your crown. They're no joke user, and they govern the functions written about them in traditional literature. Meditate and see for yourself. I've had one experience before with a crown chakra expansion, and it brought me to my first and only glimpse of "cosmic consciousness", enough to know such a thing to be real.

Guenon is in that case referring to the fact that the same Vedanta he is talking about teaches that transmigration really doesn't exist in the highest sense, and that you are not the subtle body that transmigrates but just the unattached awareness which never does so. He considers that people misunderstand it when they think of individual beings like Frank and Susan being replicated again in the next like because that's not what happens. The proper way to think of it is all beings are like in a circle and the one awareness sits in the center and observes all of them but this multiplicity of beings actually don't have their own individual awarenesses but there is only that one being/awareness residing inside them and it never actually transmigrates but just observes the subtle body..

why is God a trinity when its complete, perfect and indivisible?

>I think the Rig Veda is much older than what is commonly agreed today
too bad it's just a thought in your mind and not actual reality

Samsara is an illusion, and coming to know this is one the last stages of self realization. Shankara discussed this in the Aparokshanubhuti, which is a concise explanation of Advaita Vedanta philosophy that he wrote for brainlets and followers who don't have the time to study thousands of pages of scripture and commentary. Pretty much this but in less words.

>take religious studies class for prereq to transfer to UC
>it's literally all eastern religions. buddhism, sikhism, and just now getting into hinduism
>see multiple posts today about hinduism
What could this mean?

I believe in Brahman. I believe in an uncreated universe firstly, and secondly that all of us are literally the universe's closest thing to a "creator". Not to say that all biological lifeforms haven't been designed by a higher-dimensional species or being of some kind, and same with physical reality (it's not the Judeo-Christian God, though), but ultimately I do believe that All is One, and our species has not yet collectively realized the fact that WE are that One from which everything has emanated. Thus, answers are sought beyond ourselves, which can only be found within. You are not merely a tiny lifeform wandering through a larger cosmos, you are that very cosmos wandering through it as a form of life. And you will ascend to higher forms of consciousness when you progressively remember yourself to be such.

I don't really understand how this can happen. How could a perfect god fall into ignorance (samsara)? I will read Shankara but on the surface I don't see how it is possible for atman to be brahman.

Brahman himself is part of a trinity wth are you on?
>Brahman is a state of being, not a god.
Explain that to a billion hindus

I don't know either user, to be honest. But most of the evidence I find seems to point to the notion, such as modern DMT reports, and I feel that it's correct even if we can't reconcile all the details. But I'm always open to new ideas too.

Yes they would be bros and have fascinating dialectical convos

>How could a perfect god fall into ignorance (samsara)?
He doesn't, it's kind of subtle and complicated but when you read Shankara's commentaries you see that it makes sense. It's not as though there is a cosmic or background ignorance that ensares God like a trap, instead the Upanishads describe maya as a power or faculty that God exercises, which wouldn't exist without Him. The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says "The Lord, through His mayas, appears manifold", it doesn't say "through maya" but specifies "His maya". Similarly the Katha Upanishad says "The self-existent Lord destroyed the out-going senses. Therefore one sees the outer things and not the inner Self".

Furthermore, in all the Upanishads ignorance, misunderstanding, bondage etc are never attributed to the transcendent Atma or to Brahman, but are always only attributed to the mind and the subtle body that contains it, the Chandogya Upanishad says ""the modification being only a name, arising from speech". An important teaching in Advaita that helps understand this is that the Atma is forever unattached and unaffected by anything that it observes, the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says "This self is That which has been described as "Not this, not this." It is imperceptible, for It is never perceived; undecaying, for It never decays; unattached, for It is never attached; unfettered, for It never feels pain and never suffers injury." Shankara writes about how when you analyze the phenomenology of one's mind that you see that the witnessing awareness always observes things like pain, hunger, fear etc as something eternally separate from them in an unbridgeable subject-object divide, the awareness never IS those sensations but only registers them as objects while remaining itself unaffected (and it only seems to when you confuse the mind for the Atma). The experience of delusion and the sensation of being an embodied being inhere in the mind/intellect which are themselves inert and non-conscious (until illumined by the Atma like an object by a lamp) and these subtle bodies are themselves ultimately unreal projections of the Atma along with the rest of manifestation.

So, the transcendent Lord and Self (Atma) exists as formless, unattached, unaffected; and from His maya is projected all manifestation and bodies etc, the falling into ignorance only seems to occur to the unreal beings projected by maya, while the transcendent awareness animating them is itself unattached and unaffected formless blissful awareness, but this isn't immediately apparent because the Atma is identified by them with the intellect and its attributes. This is why the Atma is said to remain hidden within one's consciousness like the stalk of a grain and why one is supposed to remove the sheaths (koshas) covering it. When people say "well if Brahman/Atma isn't affected why is there conscious experience of samsara?" it's because they are mistakenly identifying the intellect and its sensations with the Atma.

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so deep, bruh. pass the bong

In the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is explained three possibilities with regard to the afterlife. The first is complete liberation "being Brahman, he merges in Brahman", the second is attainment of heavenly states (the northern path) which may last for up to the end of that cycle of universal manifestation; but which one is eventually reborn from in the next cycle (it's not eternal), and the third possibility (the southern path) of transmigration into another body. The Atma as the inner Self and Soul always itself in reality remains free, blissful, unconditioned and unchanged and the ideas of afterlife and transmigration only really apply with regard to the destiny of the subtle body (which includes the intellect/mind) that the Atma observes.

Do Indians have nothing better to do then write such worthless threads? Do you need a white man's acknowledgement towards your culture so much?

They are not Indians, most probably white hippies.

The projection here is outstanding. Even discussions in comparative metaphysics are apparently a way for anonymous-but-obviously-racial minorities to gain the approval of that one specimen they yearn to be looked at favorably by, namely the "white man" (using the 2019 definition of "white").

My apologies, JESUS CHRIST created the universe, and then later sacrificed himself to himself (suicide, I guess?) because of a woman eating a fruit despite being told not to, or something like that, and now everyone who doesn't dunk themselves in water and profess JESUS's name by mouth is going to hell forever because Jesus is a merciful dictator. Pass the wafer, please. Thank you pastor.

I don't believe in any of the Hindu deities as really existing, but the concept of Brahman could very well be true.

based poo

what is the difference between the Aparokshanubhuti and his Atma bodha?

>vegetarian
>believes in chakra
Checks out.

You can literally feel them in your own body with minimal effort, user. Just meditate for a week or two and observe whether you feel "rotating vortexes" in the places I mentioned above: forehead, throat, chest, etc.

People didn't make up that stuff from scratch, albeit the modern New Age community has distorted the reputation of these realities.

Don't trust me on this - try weekly meditation and see for yourself.

Also, vegetarianism is very healthy for you, and promotes an attitude of compassion towards animal life - a victory for all parties. I even notice that my sweat no longer smells since becoming vegetarian - which scientific studies corroborate. I don't even wear scented anti-persperant anymore and my body has no smell to itself. It's pretty neat.

do you have more info about meditation? i have been trying lately but i feel like as if i couldn't reach anything besides what i accomplish in 10 minutes of it. i know it is a process of development but i would like to know more about it

Why would God ever be some arbitrary, mythological, culturally-bound and historically-assembled "trinity" instead of a strictly abstract, universal model of reality like Brahman embodies? Not even saying Brahman is correct, but there's no competition between the two metaphysical systems.

If you were asking about dualism versus non-dualism or something like that, the question would be different.

Not him, but thank you for this post.

I don't have any resources user, sorry. I only recently started taking it more seriously, and attempting to become skilled at it. I used to do it years ago, and had some nice sessions, but never took it seriously then.

My advice to you is to look at the book "The Mind Illuminated", because it's very highly reviewed as a modern book on the subject. Aside from that, many resources exist online which can teach you the basics of various styles of meditation. Breath meditation, candle flame meditation, etc.

My advice is not to get disappointed by your lack of success - meditation is VERY difficult, user. And especially so when we lead such antithetical lifestyles to it.

If you get upset at yourself and quit meditating, you'll never improve. Simply be unmoved by your successes and failures, which is the very mode of meditation itself, and you will definitely continue to get better over time.

And areas like the chakra system can be felt for yourself, with little effort. They're in your body, at this very moment.

>DUDE POO IN LOO IM A HINDU ATHIEST KEK I LOVE SCIENCE!!!!

I pity you children. Please return to Christ, you know in your heart that he is the only way. Stop this juvenile rebellion against Christ and repent.
Read Feser and Aquinas, they btfo every hindu 'philosopher' you could mention.

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Brahman roughly translates to 'efficacious speech'.

>Subscribing to the Christian conception of God

Shiggy

The Trinity BTFOs all of your sandnigger bullshit. It's the most metaphysically rich and complex conception of God.
This hindu shit is just dude weed lmao tier rubbish.
Repent or burn forever, simple as that.
I'm out.

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>The Trinity

Is that the Trinity of El, Yahweh and Baal?

The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.
Your attempts at mockery are just adding to your sin. Although I must say that anyone who rejects Jesus will burn, so you're already far from being saved from God.

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>Mockery

It's called Theology

cringe and jewpilled

Indians don’t bother with other races lol

Dravidians think they're first world technocrats. Northeners think they're all Aryans
t. Know natsoc larping kashmiri pandits

Christianity's historical success lies solely in the aggressive political campaign which accompanied it. As soon as religious freedom became possible, from that moment on has Christianity steadily lost followers. The Hindu doctrines, however, have never proselytized to anyone, and have gained their continued growth of followership through the depth of their metaphysics and the benefits of their physical practises. It is not Christ we need return to, but the wisdom of ancient India.

Can we please not turn every Hinduism thread into a discussion of ethnic trends? Yes, Indians exist, and yes they have a funny character, especially since the Internet reached their lands. I say this as an Indian myself. No, it's not relevant to this thread, or any other thread in the history of Yea Forums. Please stop bringing it up here where strictly philosophy is attempting to be discussed.

>inb4bobs

>trinity
>metaphysically rich
lel. It's all baby-tier and contradictory. And when you people try to make it not so by appropriating authentic and deep pagan metaphysics from Plato/Aristotle then you just end up making the Bible and your entire religion obsolete.

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Just keep practising dude, you'll improve for sure. :) Good luck

thank you guys

Considering hindooism is basically an ethnic religion, the people it produces should factor in. It's like discussing shinto wout mentioning nihon

But ethnic Indians have no more relation to a discussion of Hindu metaphysics than ethnic Germans have to a discussion of quantum physics, which they founded. It's not relevant here, yet it's impossible to discuss Hinduism here without people bringing up "Indians" and their behaviors.

take care friend

>Repent or burn forever
A metaphysics so strong, a metaphysical realm is needed to bring people to believe in it. ;)

It's impossible to discuss modern science without dissecting anglo pathologies, german perversions, and jewish revolutionary ambitions. Ad hominem is a copout for midwits, ideas don't exist in a vacuum outside of history/reality.

I think what he's saying is that ethnic Germans didn't invent quitting physics - Jews did. Similarly, ethnic Indians didn't invent Hindu metaphysics - conceivably Aryans did. I don't 1000% agree but it's a take.

"invent quantum physics" sorry for phoneposting.

Whether that's true or not is ultimately left up to what pajeets say - aryans didnt write anything down. Vedic religion probably more similar to hellenoitalic. The vritra vala slayings kind of like demeter, indra raping and looting like odysseus and co, soma cult like orphic mysteries, etc

Atma Bodha is sort of a general discussion of Self-knowledge whereas Aparokshanubhuti is a more stage by stage study of realization

Feser is an annoying writer. There are better guides to Aquinas like Copleston.

>Christianity's historical success lies solely in the aggressive political campaign which accompanied it.
Pretty much, although early church was pretty chill. The split within the church really made christianity go haywire. Before that christianity existed syncretically with other religions, not too different buddhism in asia.

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lol