Do I absolutely NEED to read the Iliad and Odyssey? I know this makes me sound like a philistine and an idiot, that's because I am both. Can someone tell me specifically how reading these would benefit me as I move along? Is it just gaining insight into their attitudes and culture and the context in which plato and co. exist? If so why do I need to read this boring shit to understand that? Aren't there some cliff notes somewhere? Honestly goddamn
Do I absolutely NEED to read the Iliad and Odyssey? I know this makes me sound like a philistine and an idiot...
Luke Hughes
Nolan James
If you don’t, you will regret it
Lucas Myers
The Iliad is a great story, though. Check the thread on it in /his/ right now. Even if you disagree with everything, it sure sparks some interesting discussion. Plus, it is one of the 3 most influential works in western culture
Dylan Collins
>it is one of the 3 most influential works in western culture
How is it more influential than
>Euclid's Elements
>Marx's Communist Manifesto
>YHWH's Bible
>Newton's Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica
>Darwin's The Origin of Species
Camden Reed
The greeks are old news
Lucas Carter
The Bible and the Republic are the other 2 of the 3 most influential
Logan Cox
What do you mean do you NEED to read them? What do you think the fucking point of reading is you asinine sack of shit? Are you just reading for the clout of it, for the pussy, or for some idea that because you have "read" more books that you somehow have more of a "value" to society than someone else. You don't HAVE to read anything, you should read because you like reading and you like the stories, not because its some bullshit thing that you see people smarter than you on Yea Forums doing and so you want to imitate them. Just read the goddamn books because they are good books, don't read them to complete a fucking info graph.
Joseph Perry
why don't you learn to observe context clues you angry little monkey, clearly I want to read philosophy and have looked at this graph as an introduction to doing so. I have been here long enough to know people insist on reading those two stories and I wanted to know why they are considered necessary in context to what comes afterwards. I don't know why you had that little rant but it sounds more like projection than anything that is relevant to my op.
WHY
WHY WHY WHY
I will look at it, I am decently through the Iliad and I don't actually dislike it, my post has more to do with the fact that I am only reading it because I have been told it's necessary reading for what I want to read and I really don't know why.
Brayden Long
You need to read them because they are literally the cornerstones of western literature, alongside the Bible. Also, they're really great stories with a high testosterone-requirement.
Jose Anderson
Not only do you need to read them both, but you need to read multiple translations of them into your native language and eventually read them in Greek once your Greek is good enough (you are studying Greek, right?).
Lucas Hall
just read mythology by edith hamilton and the trojan war by barry strauss and you should be good. maybe pick up a book about greek culture and society like oxford's ancient greece.
now, that said, you should actually be starting with the indo-europeans, then the bronze age.
Christian Bell
based
Ethan Watson
>Classics reading list
>American reading list
>Indo-European linguistics reading list
What is this thread even about?
Jaxon Johnson
read Gilgamesh instead
Henry Reyes
are you OP?
Jeremiah Price
No
Anthony Rogers
then don't talk to me
Juan Perry
pls no bully
Leo Hill
Also, it seems more than a little bizarre to tell someone they need to learn Hittite in order to study philosophy
Kayden Nelson
that's because you weren't well in the head to begin with. if you aren't going to take this shit seriously and go ALL THE WAY, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, go and take up crochet or something because this isnt for you, fatass
Connor Cook
Alright, give me a sentence in Hittite.
Elijah Price
You should read them because for the longest time they were our oldest and longest stories of the western cannon. They provide context for the beginnings of western thought. They provide the story telling structures for many major works of literature. They are constantly referenced throughout time. They da big furs boks m8
Evan Morales
learning is your own personal journey. it would defeat the purpose if i helped you
Logan Hall
I just want to see an example. Show me the cool stuff I'll be able to do once I'll as much of an erudite as you.
Michael Jackson
Jackson Wood
> Is it just gaining insight into their attitudes and culture and the context in which plato and co. exist?
When Socrates/Plato kickstarts philosophy, he does it as a critic of his time. You need to familiarize wiith the archaic ideals of virtue and excellence of Homer, Hesiod, Tyrtaeus.and Solon, as these poets were the educators of Greece.
See "Paideia" by Werner Jaeger, he puts these poets in context
Lincoln Reyes
Thank you, مدرس
John Scott
you're welcome.
Eli Flores
The reason is context. You'll find this stories are referenced to and alluded to to a ridiculous degree. Reading them and understanding them is useful and it isn't hard so why no just do it?
>> Aren't there some cliff notes somewhere? Honestly goddamn.
Yes. Google it. You fucking idiot.
Eli Mitchell
>You fucking idiot.
unnecessary and harsh
Easton Phillips
>Seinfeld 1&2
>Not Seinfeld 4
Xavier Hall
yeah i think they're fucking boring too. just read mythology by edith hamilton for some background and context cause greeks and the rest of literature likes to refer back 2 the greeks and their stories. i started with the john cooper translation of plato it's been fine but a slow haul, i don't solely read it.
Jayden Myers
I used to be like you, and now Homer and the Historians are more influential to my life than Plato and Aristotle. I thought philosophy was 'asking and answering deep questions', but it's actually a reflection of thought within the current society. Homer will highlight what people saw as honourable, Herodotus will show you how the Greeks saw themselves and their world, Thucydides will show you how fucked the world was, and introduce you to early politics. Then Plato will try and get them all on the correct path, and you'll understand the world he grew up in to come to his conclusions.
Trust us, it ends up being way more fun than it looks.
Jason Brown
you're forgetting the most important greek work
Eli Thompson
the only reason to read the iliad and odyssey is because they're good.
and if you read it for reasons outside of entertainment then you'll miss the point anyway.
Nathan Lewis
Yes. Every single person in the ancient mediterranean world knew those stories and quoted them constantly.
Mason James
The Iliad and Odyssey are referenced constantly, not just in tons of literature from every period but also in film, music and just every day conversation. Besides maybe the Bible etc, those two books have had more influence than anything else ever written.
>"boring shit"
Cameron Bennett
Read M.I. Finley's The World of Odysseus after The Odyssey, its a great companion if you want more context on the history that inspired both The Iliad and Odyssey.
Xavier Miller
>Englishing the Iliad: Grading Four Rival Translations | The New Yorker
newyorker.com
Samuel Davis
No particular work of Shakespeare is the "most influential", but he's probably the most quoted writer.
Levi Bailey
This and Homeric Moment are worth reading.
Robert Rogers
Pope, Fagles or Lattimore for the Iliad?
Cameron Roberts
Fagles is probably best. Lattimore is a bit simpler but as a result also less impressive. Pope is better for a reread than a first read
Andrew Cook
Lattimore in terms of fidelity to the Greek, Fagles is very readable and entertaining but less definitive.
iliad-translations.com
iliad-translations.com
Jeremiah King
butler
Cameron Howard
Short of the Bible, they're likely the most alluded to works in literature of all time.
Camden Martinez
Chapman :^)
Lincoln Brown
the odyssey and the iliad were meant to be listened to not read, you should find an audiobook version by a voice actor you like, and just spend time sitting and listening, not doing anything else.
Michael Martinez
they were meant to be listened to in ancient greek
Grayson Cook
>translated poetry
what's the point?
might as well watch Troy
Christopher Turner
right? I am the op and this is another problem I had. I am reading fagles on an ebook - I was told it was poetry so I was expecting stanza but it reads almost like a novelization. Does anyone know if this is just a formatting problem or is this how it was intended?
Jayden Howard
Yo OP I have read The Odyssey and The Illiad before and I don't think it's necessary. It's placed there due to it being the oldest piece of Greek/Western literature around and a window into pre-literary Greece.
Check out these lectures from Yale, these will go over the highlights of both works
Holy fuck stay in /sci/
Jack Myers
western CULTURE
Brayden Jones
You're supposed to watch it in a greek theater, pleb.
Lincoln Cruz
>reading Nimrods propoganda