It's fascist propaganda

>It's fascist propaganda

it's so tiring Yea Forums - how can I even engage such drivel in the year of our lord 2019?

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Yea Forums can only talk about books by taking the #1 most common basic bitch pop culture meme reference thing people say about the book and then saying
>Do people really think this??
or something similarly shallow an unengaging

I hate this shit board

Refute it bitch boy

Tell them fuck off, and continue enjoying book.

Alternatively, get them to read Farnham's Freehold

on this website? Tell them to "have sex" and post a twitter/tumblr/insta shit meme.

In real life? Just do the normal routine and ask what they think in the book promotes fascism. Most likely they've never read the and are simply parroting a relatively well known idea.

>ask what they think in the book promotes fascism
Have you read it? Its a warrior culture, probably the most ideal example of a fascistic society. How is it not fascist?
>Most likely they've never read the and are simply parroting a relatively well known idea.
Its relatively well known because its accurate you idiot lmfao

This is a gross oversimplification of fascism. It comes with economic and political theory as well. Plus he's literally in the military, and every military is authoritarian by nature unless it's an anarchist militia or something

The economic and political theory is fascist too though. I'm not talking about the military, I mean the society we learn about from Mr. Dubois. First of all Fascism has no strict economic theory, but it tends to be corporatist (this doesnt mean corporations in the business sense) or socialistic whenever it pops up. Italy was corporatist, whereas Germany was more socialist. But from what we learn about in the book is that people (or at least Mr. Dubois who is the representative of the Citizenry for the reader) is pretty anti-liberal, anti-capitalist, and especially anti-marxist. Its democratic but only for the approved class (warriors). Its sort of reminiscent of Pato's Callipolis, which was also a big inspiration for Mussolini. Its very much a spiritual warrior cult society, and that is basically exactly what Fascism is (or aims to be).

You got me. I stand corrected

>basically exactly
Its early morning, I dont know why I wrote both of those

I usually just point out that the people lived in a democracy. If they don't understand the significance they're not worth talking to because it means they don't know what fascism is but they genuinely think they do. You're not going to be able to change their mind so don't bother getting annoyed. They need to figure it out for themselves.

Democracy is not antithetical to Fascism you would know this if you had read any Fascist literature. Fascism was against party politics and large scale mass democracy. Italy still had democracy, just on a smaller scale with corporatism. Corporatism is basically just multiple small democracies for individual policies and industries.

Yeah okay dude

It’s tolerable only because it’s so much better than the propaganda Brecht churned out.

>hey lets let everyone vote
>yeah, but not (((everyone)))

Am I wrong?

democracy doesn't really mean much. It really doesn't matter if people can vote if you control their education and information sources for example.

I dont understand what you're implying. Jews werent persecuted in Italy until much later under Nazi influence. All citizens from all vocations and walks of life could vote. Including Italian Jews.

Whats the alternative then? Thats always the case in any society. Even now.

>Thats always the case in any society. Even now.
Im aware. Idk what the alternative is. fuck it desu

The term fascist is meaningless outside of specific historical contexts. You can take all of the common elements like hierarchicism, nationalism, anti-democratism, militarism, authoritarianism, and so on and find all of them in things that are clearly not fascistic so they can't be used to define a generic or "mere" fascism. Another problem is that all of the historic fascism's have significant distinguishing characteristics. Itailian fascism is clearlydifferent from German fascism which is very different from Hungarian, and Spanish and whatever.fascism.

Thank you
People call WW2 Japan fascist and I just fucking expire from sheer disappointment

What was authoritarian about the political system?

Also it seems more like a federalist government than a nationalist one.

The problem isnt the system its who and what runs it. Like based Isaac says in Deus Ex, a society with weak leadership will see those weak values instilled in the people. If your state promotes positive values, struggle, hard work, masculine virtues, as opposed to mcdonalds and pornos, you will see positive outcomes. Socialization is powerful but it can be easily misused.
The fascists ALMOST had it right, but they couldnt stick to their principles and it became a perverted state. In the end the true goal is Plato's ideal, the problem is his society was based on a lie and the assumption of perfect circumstances, so how the fuck do you translate that to the real world?

>The term fascist is meaningless outside of specific historical contexts.
Not at all, its not a mere ideology its an entire philosophy of life. The problem is barely anybody knows what it is because the word gets misused so often.
>You can take all of the common elements like hierarchicism, nationalism, anti-democratism, militarism, authoritarianism, and so on and find all of them in things that are clearly not fascistic so they can't be used to define a generic or "mere" fascism.
Firstly its not anti-democratic, not necessarily. It can be but it doesnt have to be. Its core idea is pure meritocracy. Its also somewhat untrue to call it nationalist. It can be, but not always. British Fascism was not. Mosley invoked patriotism and used the word "Nationalist", but what he meant was Nationalitym not Nationalism, he supported the British Empire and later a European Union. He wanted internationalism enhanced by nationalism, just as fascism is collectivism enhanced by individualism. Fascism is an attitude above all else. None of those things are exclusive to fascism, but they are all part of it.
>Another problem is that all of the historic fascism's have significant distinguishing characteristics. Itailian fascism is clearly different from German fascism which is very different from Hungarian, and Spanish and whatever fascism.
The global movement was referred to as fascist because they all shared the common idea. They were all fascist and people can still be fascist today.

It was.

Corporal punishment, what is essentially aristocracy, militarism. How is it not authortarian?

Fuck off with your retarded shit

Why does being wrong upset you

Show me one image where the Japanese put a fasces on any of their flags, clothes, etc.

>Corporal punishment
Sometimes I forget that the civilized method of dealing with crime is to lock people in cages for years on end, rather than just beating them up a bit and letting them go on with their lives.

>the book is about a quasi-fascist state therefore it promotes fascism
How low is your IQ?

>The problem isnt the system its who and what runs it
It's a bit of both really, though I generally agree that the people themselves are more important than whatever particular meme of a system is being used on paper.

Why dont you read my post before responding
Fascism is not just an ideology specific to one country. This is why historians call the Axis powers Fascist. Its why people call Pinochet Fascist, even though his Chile is very different to Italy.

Based

Its very obviously portraying it in a positive light and making arguments for it. Try reading it.

The characters showing believe in a system they believe being a good system does not mean the author or the book agrees with that statement.

Heinlein explores all sorts of ideas in his books but Starship Troopers was very personal to him. He dedicated the book to his Drill Sergeant. Its clearly something he believed in or at least took seriously.

Nationality*
Dunno why there's an m there.

>how can I even engage such drivel
Don't. Who cares? Normalfags are animals. Don't bother arguing with them. Would you argue with your dog? Just agree with them, nobody cares.

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Your movie sucked Kanker

back to pol incel poltard!!!
or read some REAL literature, like The Capital, for example

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>its a warrior culture!
>that makes it le evil fascist!
im not even denying that the book is fascist but this is honestly comical, youre a /pol/fag false flagging arent you

Is it just me or does seem like "fascist" is basically a nonsensical buzzword to paint large swaths of enemies with the same easily demonizable label

But citizens can have served anywhere, they literally have to provide civil service positions to anyone who asks (i suppose you could assume invalids are excluded, though i dont remember this stated in the book), and service isnt necessarily military

It's simplistic to claim that ST was fascist-- it doesn't advocate for fascism but it depicts a militarism that can certainly lead towards fascism, and it's hard to say what you're supposed to take away from the way society works outside of the military. It would be irresponsible to act like depicting a society like that constitutes advocacy, but with little to say whether you're meant to idolize it, it gives off this impression that Starship Troopers is ignorant of the world outside military life, and it's impossible to determine whether it's because of the inherent isolation that military life forces onto you, or because that society is irrelevant to Heinlein himself. Certainly, it invites fascist readings, though personally I don't believe they are intentional.

>its a warrior culture!
>that makes it le evil fascist!
I didn't say that. You also didnt provide a counter argument, please read my posts above and convince me I'm wrong.

Only retards see it that way. I'm using it in the way it should be used, not in the *anything right of bernie sanders is fascist* sense. I'm basing my arguments based off what I've read from Giovanni Gentile, Benito Mussolini, and Oswald Mosley.

>But citizens can have served anywhere, they literally have to provide civil service positions to anyone who asks
Where is that said? Certainly not in the book. I read it just a few weeks ago. Its specifically military service. And yes there are plenty of non-combat roles and jobs within the military.
They also dont "have to provide civil service positions to anyone who asks" I dont know where you got that from either.

>it doesn't advocate for fascism but it depicts a militarism that can certainly lead towards fascism
What is your definition of fascism?

>something being propaganda means it's bad
Battleship Potemkin is one of the finest pieces of cinema, for example

Military discipline =/= facism

Those aren't mutually exclusive

Just got a copy yesterday.
This

But it *Literally* is fascist propaganda (and that's a good thing).

It's not fascist, it's militarist. Learn the difference. Militarism is the root of everything great.

Its funner and more original than the communism but in le space meme

Italian Jews joined Mussolini en masse in the 20s, it was a major divisive point between Italy and Germany

I know you're baiting - but please consider the context of the book: humanity is fighting a war for survival against 2 different alien species, and losing. Why the fuck would they not be militaristic?