This is so gay

>not hating christianity

Cast off the flesh you hate so
We could use it’s materals for mulch

Why does the one healthy ant cast off the cordyceps infected ant?
It is an infection in the brain

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You are wrong to condemn christianity, then. in what other belief system does god become flesh and fraternize with the "profane"?

I DO NOT HATE THE FLESH OF MY BODY, BUT YOU WILL EVER LONG FOR THE WINGS THAT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE AS LONG AS YOU SHUN THE TRUE LIGHT.

I am the true light

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tripfags are so fucking cringeworthy
it would be amusing if not so ceaselessly tiresome

Both these posters believe in the same thing

Woah cool, but who cares?

Thats why you trip on an anonymous literature forum, ey? Because you're so put together, so divine, so self righteous.

Perhaps if you were to open your heart to christ you would not be reduced to such a state

Isn't it interesting enough that they believe themselves to be defending one thing from the other when they are really advocating the same thing?

That water is wet, perhaps

No. Neither are particularly interesting individuals nor is this situation particularly interesting.

>perhaps if you open the door to the crypt and walk inside, we might seal it behind you.

It’s an old argument. “My imaginary frend is real! I’ll kill you if you don’t accept those” so I’m kind of with you on this.

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Read it. Not always necessary but it's fairly important I think in this case. I read that exact version and found it very good.

My position is that you both blow ass. I don't care about the content of your squabble.

Consider that the one poster believes himself to be defending "the spirit", whilst the other believes themselves to be defending "the flesh". Yet both share a similar indignation at the other. Both believe the other to be a fool, not privy to the "true" wisdom which they believe themselves to be initiated in. Both have their gods, the one dancing, the other still. But they gravitate around each other like man to woman. The one is jubilant and active, the other is melancholy and righteous. Their conflict is eternal, and what does this say but that the one cannot exist without the other? Yet, again, both consider the other to a phantom, an illusion. They do not realize that they do not exist alone, and that they only have a half-the enlightened half, of course.

I said I don't care. Don't waste your time.

Now you are spirit and I am flesh, and I will dance around your melancholy. I will tease and poke and prod, and you will seethe and "be perturbed" and so forth. You will say, "your dance is illusory and a frivolity; I am concerned with serious matters, and so forth". And I will tease and say, "A frivolity am I, you say? Good, then, I will be frivolous. I will spin and whirl, and you will become nauseated. And I will laugh, because I am the malevolence of laughter, the cruelty of delight," and so forth.

Now see, you have entered into the conflict yourself. Are you so sure that you have outsmarted it?

>du du duuuuuuh
>hi, I’m nobody. Not doing anything, saying anything, thinking anything, I don’t stand for anything. And if you do, I don’t care, so don’t talk to me.

Enjoy your Miccy D’s though, really.

What does that metaphor even mean what are you even saying

I had red wine and some cookies, but thanks anyway.

Are you a Christian?

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Christ gives me peace and strenght to carry on, despite feeling lonely and unwanted by other people.

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I give myself all that and more

So what you're saying is that you don't need it from Christ? If you believe that these things are good enough that you provide yourself with them, why reject them when they come from another?

What’s your take on Christianity?

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Yeah they even phrase it in the old maid dualities: fire and light, material and ideal, body and mind. It's schizophrenic

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Yes. I am a follower of Christ with no ties to any specific dogma, sect, denomination.
Jesus rebuked the religious and loved the sinners.

What did your crypt metaphor mean? You're implying that religious thinking is the death of the true self, the free thinker, or something along that lines?

precisely--yet failing to realize that they operate within the same dichotomy, and like the ying and yang are endlessly trying to get the high ground against the other

>religious thinking
more than likely she equates christianity with "the man", the regime, or what have you, which is to be interpreted as a vehicle for suppression and prohibition, in much the same way as a rebellious teenager might see their parents as nothing but boring, old, and most importantly, resentful persons--probably of her youth, her "freedom" and so forth, which from her persepctive they only want to temper and limit, and that arbitrarily. that is how she has to see christianity, otherwise it would be to admit that it has some merit, which she is unable to accept, seeing as how it must be the springboard from which her own ambitions leap. from a christian's perspective her "leaping" is nothing but idolatry, which is, in the end, nothing but the elevation of self, an attempt to "unite" with whatever free and enlightened spirit strikes her fancy. now, such a belief, having no foundation for itself but simply the rejection of the prohibition of the previous generations, ends up being little more than a kind of selective lawlessness, which defines itself by the transgression of whatever laws were imposed upon it by the parents. inevitably it must try to deify these transgressions, since it has made them vehicles for her own freedom and, in fact, a return to stability, which every person, whatever their creed, must seek. therefore, she worships her own gods, which are her transgressions, but must constantly feed them with the sacrifice of the previous generation's dogmas, which she cannot do away with because her system is really nothing but resentment--the very thing she accused her parents of bearing towards her. therefore, the devil of resentment has survived, and thrives in every generation which believes itself to be the herald of a new renaissance, the "new" doctrine, the "new" freedom, and so forth. at worst, they resurrect ancient forms of ritual, seeing in them the validation of their own deification of transgression, entirely unaware of the real nature of the act they are trying to piece together.

Plato was just jelly because Alcibiades was Socrates's favorite.

Only brainlets think Greeks were actually gay and that it isn't just some modern revisionist propaganda interpetation

>she still thinks it was a modern revisionist propaganda interpretation
sweetie we're on a whole new meta, get with it

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What's wrong with being gay?

Everything, for a start.

Being annoying?

Nothing for a start

Aids, for a start

It certainly makes me wonder if wrestlers tend to the Platonic, like the original. Then there's Alcibiades, who even in his cups seems a bit needy. That makes me wonder if charismatics tend that way, including ones as beautiful, presumably also fragrant as Alexander was reported to be. Thus is my contribution to this thread's gay degree.

cringe
inaccurate
nice.

>gay bad
Just let them die if it kills them. Or kill them if it offends you so much

Why don’t you two fuck off to reddit if you’re going to use a trip in every thread

He’s dead. If real to begin with. It’s not a matter of rejecting the supposed historical Christ. He’s jus dead.
I believe I’ve been pretty clear. I’m antitheist. It’s bad for people. Social cohesion can come without it fine.
I was just being theatrical, poetic terms for funsees.
Precisely why it’s not very “yin/yang”. I want to extend life flourishing out into the solar system and beyond. Christians hope there’s a here-after were they can bow down for all eternity to a loving creator of wrath and jealousy, so hey forsake this mortal world, indeed find it nothing but mortifying sin and torment.
The child’s god, Santa is more appealing.

It is a death cult. It finds the real world too painful so yearns for a fictional afterlife. Reopening myself to this is not a sweet notion in the least.

No one likes you

>Or kill them if it offends you so muc
How about we put you out of your misery first

No one likes you either

>I'm antitheist.

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Why do you have to be so rude? How socially cohesive is it being against other people's belief?

See it’s bad for your brain to accept falsehoods as empirical facts. Wake up, dear boy.

It’s as if I’ve shown you some good manners at the dinner table, and you tell me I’m being rude.
Go to your room.

>It is a death cult
Hard disagree. Exactly backwards, even. Christianity celebrates life. I know there are fundamentalists (who I have my own arguments with) people like baptists who overemphasize the afterlife, etc. But i'm not concerned with all the ways that one can be led astray but rather with the narrow gate.
I think the most important part of Christianity is that it establishes a personal connection with the transcendent. No amount of outward-facing self-righteousness satisfies the requirements for being a "true Christian." Its purely the contents of your heart/mind that are on trial, but also you are only judged by the transcendent, loving Father. So, any delusions of grandeur, any self righteousness, any self deception interferes with the connection between the individual and the transcendent. But if that connection is maintained and kept open it offers a transformative potential.
Christianity is precisely concerned with growth, change, life (for the living!) in a way that, in my opinion, no other way of being comes close to.
Do you know about the "depressive realism"? What's your take on that? What about magical thinking, do you think there is a place for magical thinking in a psychologically-sound functional human adult? What the meaning of life if any as you see it?

>put you out of your misery first
Well, I'm neither miserable nor gay so you'd be killing an innocent. But go for it. Life is pretty dull desu

Im bumping in hopes of getting a response.
Why do you want to see human life extend out into the cosmos? You consider life an end unto itself?

>Hard disagree.
Truth hurts
>Exactly backwards
No, that’s the basics of it. Celebrate life, but you’re “born in sin”. So we do as we’re told. This is why church and state were inseparable for so long.
Trying to, as you say, connect with the transcendent, is the Christian death wish. Once you’re done laboring for your betters, you think you’ve got an even better life ahead of you. But you don’t. You wasted your life on supporting the elites.

I don’t know what this “depressive realism” is. I’m perfectly calm and happy after reading the simple lessons of Epicurus. As for the meaning/meaninglessness of life, I am free to choose that meaning.

I love life. This growth I dream of for future generations is like a plant that grows towards the light.
2000 years isn’t a long time at all.

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Empirical? You want to expand to space. Have you ever been to space? No? Then you can't know that it exists. You can't know that I exist either.

>You can't know that I exist either.

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>it’s
its

This autocorrect has a mind of its own

your opposition to Christianity is ultimately emotional, not rational, which is why so few people are willing to engage in discourse with you on the subject anymore
I sympathize with whatever pain causes you to feel so strongly, but I don't pity you the scorn you call down on your own head by acting like a condescending retard in every thread even tangentially related to religion. Cope with your past by all means, but don't lash out at other people who have lived different lives and have a different understanding of the term "Christ" than you

>your opposition to Christianity is ultimately emotional, not rational
Poor guesswork. I remained Christian for an embarrassingly long time, an agnostic for too long after that. I took my time shedding that skin.
“So few people” here? They buy into anonymity, but the Christians don’t want to talk to me because they’re still lost like I was.
I aware of all the pain, but I am ataraxic (lucid, robust tranquility) so personally I’m doing fine. Don’t like getting old, but oh well.
I am not so much “lashing out” at you all, as I am trying to dump a bucket of cold refreshing truth on you so that you might join me

It's not guesswork, it's experience. You're hardly unique, and everything you say is always something I've heard before, this post being no exception.
>cold refreshing truth
antisocial screeching and childish namecalling is hardly effective evangelism, take it from a tradition that's mastered the craft. But again, that's only the facade that you present to us (and possibly to yourself?) to cover for the fact that you act out of anger and/or fear, not reason.

You didn't really expand on your views. I also love life, I agree 2000 years isn't that long on a cosmic scale. I feel like you're imposing a very narrow projection of Christianity onto me and arguing against your strawman. I'm trying to engage you here, I genuinely would like to know your position. What alternative are you offering?

Will you respond to my question about magical thinking? Can you tell me what your (you personally) meaning of life is? (you said you're free to choose it but didn't specify what you've chosen).

there's a school of thought I've heard of that views Jesus through a communist lens and views him as a revolutionary, or something to that effect I've only heard second hand accounts. Theology of revolution. I think that your description of Christianity as duping the masses into waging away for elites is accurate in some, even many cases, but I would describe those cases as having fallen off the true path. (churches, pastoral positions attract sociopaths, for the same reason as cults and not every preacher will be preaching in earnest or for the right reasons--obviously)

>antisocial
Hardly
>you act out of anger and/or fea
Absolutely not. This made me laugh actually.
>everything you say is always something I've heard before
But never experienced. Not yet anyway. Deal with the fear. It’s like riding without the training wheels.

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>that typical condescending christfag LARP tone

>I'm trying to engage you here
Oh. I thought you were already. Anonymity sucks.
Don’t mean to project much either, I know I don’t know you.
What is this “magical thinking”? I read a Joan Didion book The Year of Magical Thinking, but I doubt that what you mean. My personal meaning of life I kind of answered already. I live life and want to help keep it from going extinct AND alleviate some social pains from these awkward systems we’ve inherited.

Gods can be molded into a variety of things. The Bible condones slavery, but we decided to makes laws against it. Now all of a sudden the Bible doesn’t really mean to condo— don’t read that part *that* way!
Of course there’s Christian socialists

Please respond.

Would you be interested in joining the discourse? Are you an atheist?

>I LOVE life and want to help keep it from going extinct AND alleviate some social pains from these awkward systems we’ve inherited.
Jackass spellcheck. Everyfuckingtime

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>someone posts a Plato thread
>it turns into a Butterfly vs Everyone Else debate over Christianity
why does this keep happening?

They’re called conversations.
Plato is boring. He gets a million threads per week.

>This made me laugh actually
that's not evidence of anything, certainly not of emotional tranquility, but it doesn't have to be a sticking point. If you say so, I'll believe you, or at least not argue
>never experienced
it seems I know you better than you know me, butterfly. Not all of us were born into religion, and I've spent plenty of years staring into the void. I feel it was time wasted and I empathize with anyone still trapped there. In that way maybe we are the same

just because Plato is boring doesn't mean you should derail every thread about him. let people make containment threads so they don't shit up other threads with Platonism

The OP literally says “This is so gay”
What do you have to say for yourself?

HA

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ill say this mr. butterfly typically im okay with you but this time you've really shit up a thread about a book i enjoy you filthy nigger

>What do you have to say for yourself?
I'm also gay

No one’s actually stopping you from discussing it.

Sorry I got too impatient!
magical thinking is just what it sounds like, believing things happened for no credible reason, like believing it rained because you did a dance.

Why do you want to preserve life? I assume you've seen these antinatalist threads around, you could fall for that meme from a materialist perspective, what keeps you thinking life is worth preserving?
I have made the argument about slavery that if tribes in the biblical times didn't use slavery they would've been outcompeted and that a moral system that can't sustain itself across time isn't truly moral, therefore having rules on how you're allowed to treat your slaves isn't proof that the Bible is amoral. What do you think?

I agree that religion can be used as a tool to control people or molded to fit agendas. My argument is that there is a living spirit of truth(I can justify this rationally if you'd like) that can be abstracted out of the Bible and Christ's teachings, something more than the sum of its parts. Any law can be twisted or circumvented by a cunning lawyer, but that isn't necessarily 'justice'.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Hey, how’s it going, man?

>Why do you want to preserve life?
Is it weird? Maybe a maternal instinct. But why does the fern reach for the light?
Life means everything. Death is what’s meaningless.
>you could fall for antinatalism
No, no I would not. It’s shallow poisonous thinking.
I think the Bible is an old old outdated book of some historical and literary value.
>Any law can be twisted or circumvented by a cunning lawyer
Or by order of rulers of any kind. Yes even so called divine law. This is why I’m against the law. I would replace I with local custom, as fluid as any given situation allows.

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>Hey, how’s it going, man?
pretty good, I've been really gay lately

I don't disagree that life is worth preserving! But I do believe it is fundamentally irrational, a leap of faith, a presupposition. You could just as easily classify life as a plague and seek to eradicate it before it spreads further than our little rock in the milky way.
What do you mean by local custom? Are you an anarchist?

Based, I laughed

>But why does the fern reach for the light?
some of them don't
those ones die quickly, making it look like ferns have a desire for light. Some sense light and grow towards it, which ends up making them stronger and longer living than their brethren, and thus they pass on their genetic seed and their descendants come to dominate the field. But that's survivor bias and natural selection, not meaning or intent

Define meaning, intent.
How is it not meaningful that plants which strive to grow towards the light outcompete ones that don't

Ah! Been a couple of weeks for me. My latest lady friend at least seems to still be interested. She’s just got kids and things to look after.

I don’t see it as a leap of faith or presupposition so much as a logical step. Again, life *is* everything.
If we survive this extinction level crisis, we’ll advance our technology to the point of self-evolution. The perspective that sees living organisms as a plague is a curious one.
Yes, I am an anarchist. Libertarian-socialist.

Meaning? It’s love of life. An instinct in the plant, an instinct and a reason in me

>I don’t see it as a leap of faith or presupposition so much as a logical step.

It's not logical, it's just your preference.

>Again, life *is* everything
According to whom? To a living thing, duh, so much for logic.
>If we survive this extinction level crisis, we’ll advance our technology to the point of self-evolution.
What does self evolution mean in this context, isn't technology at its current state already a tool of evolution, hell even wearing clothes is an evolutionary step, as far as we're concerned.
>The perspective that sees living organisms as a plague is a curious one.
Why? And all perspectives are equally curious but you fail to see through the thin veil of "logic".

fpbp, Christianity (alongside ALL Abrahamic religions) has been a cancer on the Earth

>Christianity is incompatible with Platonism
>he doesn’t realize Christianity is literally just Platonism w/ a cosmic zombie jew

>it's just your preference
It’s not just mine. The enemy of life is diseased. Literally degenerate.

>I don’t see it as a leap of faith or >presupposition so much as a logical step
I don't understand how you justify that statement.
> life *is* everything
You're a materialist, correct? (i've gathered from seeing your posts around)
I, personally, operate out of an idealist framework. For me, "Ideas" are fundamental to the structure of reality, memes are living ideas, and "life" as we know it is embodied memes.
I don't understand how you could argue
>life *is* everything
from a materialist perspective. I agree with your conclusion but I don't understand how you got there.

Hella big agree.
I would argue that you're describing sin.

It seems to me we agree on many things but, as i've said, i'm hazy on how you're arriving at your conclusions.

Saying something is immoral or degenerate is not an argument against said thing. It's akin to a religious person retorting that homosexuality is bad because it makes them feel bad.

I love you butterfly thank you for this conversation it was engaging and fruitful I believe I love you see you around the anonymous image board

And I don't get what you don't understand.
What's in our heads, though a part of life, a part of the everything, is almost like a smoke in the wind, swirling colors on a soap bubble, they change like those things, and our perceptions of them die with us. And?

>I would argue that you're describing sin.
Ah, no.

>...it makes them feel bad
Death does worse than feel bad. It makes feeling anything impossible
Death=bad

Okay, thanks.
>I believe I love you
You better not be 3face.

to be perfectly honest, you and 3face are on the same level of post quality

no u

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Nietzsche went mad as soon as he broke with Wagner and turned from a prodigious, accomplished young professor, poet and composer to a homeless syphilitic rambler. If only he had stopped with Untimely Meditations and relieved us of all these empty bugmen parroting semblances of his later works to appear like an individual.

HA! That's funny. No it reads fruitful I believe. I love you (in the wholesome, Christian sense)

What's so bad with not feeling anything?
I signed M so you'd have an identifier in case of future discussions