All art is narcissism

>all art is narcissism
Refute this

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This is everyone in the world.

why would i

This thread is narcissism. Refute this.

I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.

I can't refute you because I think the artist must depend on self-perception of some kind ("would somebody without a perception of self have any need or want to create art?"), but whether or not it is outright narcissistic depends. There is some "wanting" of some kind in the artist, as is true of anybody that undertakes anything. But whether it is the want to demonstrate some kind of superiority over others by the instilling of the recognition of beauty in them - that is possible - but, it is also possible that the artist may simply want to instill the sense of recognising beauty in others, because they enjoy the sensation. To be loved because of your art I would guess would be an overwhelming feeling. So artists in that sense would be socially dependent. But I wonder if there are not artists that are so wholly preoccupied with their own tastes and sight of what they find clearly worthwhile in art that they could simply please themselves with their creations without needing to share it. What an interesting artist that would be.

Narcissism is defined as: excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.

So I can't see how you even have a sound argument to begin with. Artists do have a degree of self interest and admiration, but it doesn't have to be excessive. I haven't met or seen a human yet that is completely self detached, either.

Literature isn't art.

Not so. The earliest echoes of what we could truly call art were stirred in the dreams of those who worshipped Apollo, and saw in the nature of that perfect realm, perhaps the realm of forms as Plato would later call it, that revealed the true essence of whatever the artist was compelled to depict. This is Apolline inspiration and art was thus seen as a worship of the divine, which came from beyond the individual. i.e Sculptures, Paintings, etc
Then in contrast, the base, primal urge of Dionysus was expressed in merriment and in a dithyrambic chorus from those who were not in the dreaming world of forms but rooted to the forests in Earth worship. All emotions and urges came together in an orgy that unite a group and expressed a oneness, a unity of thought and feeling and would later merge with the appoline tradition of discipline and form to become the poetic works, and dramatical works such as plays, songs, performance arts, etc.

Art came from both the urge to express what came from divine inspiration and the collective feelings of the group. Neither is selfish or narcissistic.

not even alone is this narcissism-happy

anything done outside of survival is narcissism

Kafka

What an idiotic post. Summer comes sooner and sooner each year.

Sculptures, buildings, books, music made solely out of/for devotion to a god
Surely you cant say that they all did it because they thought it would get them bonus points?

Only after the modern era, when at moved from the exhibition of a subject to consciously avoiding a recognizable subject and going down the 2deep4u rabbit hole. Read the Essay The Dehumanization of Art by Ortega y Gasset

Not true, art is an offering to God. Used to be, at least.

Van Gogh was a poor and unknown guy who was living off of the money his brother sent him, yet he never stopped being one of the most prolific artists of history. He was never famous during his lifetime.

>no it's not
refute this

>sh-shut up
refute this

Arts beauty comes from the painstaking work undertaken in it's creation. Those ancient Maybe statues where stone is sculpted for years until it looks as soft and supple as flesh. Or a painting like picture related that near perfectly captures the beauty of the female form. Modern "art," where you scribble a cube with some shading and then claim that it's actually a deeply profound expression of your inner turmoil is narcissism.

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Marble statues actually

shouldn't it be 'look at this'?
for a few millennia it was 'look at god'

This statement is retarded. Art can be made out of need to help people or to learn or to express yourself, and it's only art that we can see, by saying art is only made out of narcissism you imply that everybody who has ever made "art", have shown it to somebody you fat cuck

yeah those narcissistic cavemen feeling accomplished over their crude etchings of buffalo, such narcissists.

Why is a penis asking to be looked at? Seems a little surreal. I've been thinking about this pic for about 15 minutes.

All thought and 'i'-ness is narcissistic.

What about anonymous art? Not banksy tier faggotry, but truly anonymous. You get validation only in narrow sense that you know you're liked, however you dont force observes into having positive opinion of your Self, as a typical narc is would be compelled to do.

Everything is vanity. Your choice to see art as some kind of exception reflects an inability to see art as anything with value or utility. Such a worldview is the result of seeing life only as a postponing of death, with nothing beautiful in between

The world is absolutely full of vanity. You a person might as well be vain about something productive, rather than selfies and superficial drive-by opinions.

>primitive storytelling is the same as modern art that takes 20 minutes to produce and then sells for 20,000,000 at auction because the modern art world is just money laundering and richfags showing off their wealth

isnt all EVERYTHING just narcissism when it comes down to it?

If you spin that argument to the end you might as well say that Consciousness itself is narcissism. The perception of the I, the Myself.
which in the end muddles the real meaning of narcissism

Ever heard of signaling theory?

Actually all art is the sublimation of sexual impulse or, in other words, a redirection of sexual energy into objects and acts.

>all motions of the organism are narcissism as it repeatedly insists itelf by maintaining homeostasis
time to genocide everyone

There is literally nothing wrong with narcissism.
Refute THIS, you fucking faggot.

Based

what is the real meaning of narcissism
while I agree with your position on the modern art world, I don't dislike highly abstract art, primitive art, etc. I even prefer it to photorealistic art, given it fits my aesthetic tastes.

I'm interested in expressing and processing my strong emotions and making others look at the world in new ways through creativity. I am quite self-centered, but I'm also slightly autistic I reckon. Not that I don't have empathy, I just have obsessive interests like music and literature. I know I'm good at those things, I just am. Is it narcissistic to pursue what I'm good at? If so, is there anyone today who isn't narcissistic?

That's not how it works. You have to prove your statements before people refute it.

>Art is a kind of innate drive that seizes a human being and makes him its instrument. The artist is not a person endowed with free will who seeks his own ends, but one who allows art to realize its purpose through him. As a human being he may have moods and a will and personal aims, but as an artist he is "man" in a higher sense— he is "collective man"— one who carries and shapes the unconscious, psychic forms of mankind.
C.G. Jung

OP is a narcissist himself, which is why he smugly denounces all art believing that he is superior than people who create or enjoy art.
>I'm so much more superior to all these narcissists who enjoy art!
Pretty ironic.

Regardless of this, I'm sure OP is baiting. Yes, it is because he is narcissistic and thirsty for attention. Narcissists convince themselves that they aren't completely worthless as long as they can get any reaction out of you.

You can anonymously create art

And yet, nobody does. Every notable work of liteature carries an author, since no mortal man managed to transcend the desire for admiration

I used to be a narcissist. It's a thought loop, you feed on it. Emotional vampires. Personally, I think it was because i was left alone too much as a child and didn't receive attention from parents so I learned to give it to myself.
I broke out of it after years of introspection culminating with a brief relationship with a qt autist girl. RIP. I think often how i wish i could've met her now, instead of the person i was. Such is life.

narcissism, as with all "isms" is the taking of the thing too far.
There's nothing wrong with a less than pathological degree of self-involvement, but that's not narcissism.

As with all -isms? Are you referring to Buddhism? Priapism? Dude, I cant think of another mental illness that ends with -ism.