>as the occidental world, unsatisfied spiritually, reached out past Rome and Pope to find its source of healing in the tomb of the redeemer at Jerusalem, as, unsatisfied even there, it cast its yearning gaze, half spiritual, half physical, still further towards the East to find the primal shrine of mankind, so the Grail was said to have been withdrawn from our cynical West to the pure chaste unattainable birthplace of all nations. And so, the Grail was nothing other than the Black Stone of the Ka’aba, the central shrine of the world’s largest religion, purified judaeo-christianity, Islam. Makkah is named in the Qur’an as the Mother of Cities, and thus the ‘birthplace of all nations’ and the Ka’aba is named the ‘primal shrine of all mankind.’ Embedded in one corner of the Ka’aba stands the Black Stone which every Muslim raises his lips to and kisses when he arrives dusty and exhausted as a pilgrim, kisses as if quenching his thirst.
>Islam also not only rejected the idea of a Redeemer or Savior, which is so central in Christianity, but also the mediation of a priestly caste. By conceiving of the Divine in terms of an absolute and pure monotheism, without a ‘Son,’ a ‘Father,’ or a ‘Mother of God,’ every person as a Muslim appears to respond directly to God and to be sanctified through the Law, which permeates and organizes life in a radically unitary way in all of its juridical, religious, and social ramifications.
Thank you very cool might have to actually take Evola seriously now since he seems like he knows what he’s talking about
Joseph Perry
Why the Monocle tho
Daniel Gonzalez
The monocle symbolized being extremely fuddy-duddy and elitist in Evola's time, it was also worn by Dadaists (ironically) sometimes.
Elijah Ortiz
Evola also thought that islam, just like Christianity and Judaism, and indeed mankind in general, is subject to the same processes of modernity (degeneration, democratization) that plagues the rest of existence. He's not pro-islam in any way except as a necessary stepping stone for mankind to reconnect with Tradition (which is also the extent to which he is pro-christian). He thought mankind was so disconnected from its true roots you'd need to embrace the (still degenerate) monotheistic faiths as a necessary evil because going head-first into "the real thing" would be impossible in today's world
Christian Ward
>Evola also thought that islam is subject to the same processes of modernity (degeneration, democratization)
Nah
Ian Cox
>The realistic point of view I felt the need to adopt in Ride the Tiger has lately led to my polemical confrontation with certain people who still cherish false hopes with regard to the current potential of 'traditional residues'. For instance, I discussed certain matters with Titus Burckhardt, who pointed to remnants of Tradition in areas outside Europe. I felt compelled to ask Burckhardt whether he was willing to acknowledge the fact that these areas, too, will fall subject to 'cyclical laws' - in which case, any emphasis on places where devolution has yet to reach the level it has reached in the West seems rather irrelevant. >[...] And while some Sufi initiatory centers certainly exist within Islam, their presence hardly prevents the Arab world from 'evolving' at an increasing speed in a modernist, progressive and anti-traditional direction. From "Path of Cinnabar
Benjamin Clark
I meant "nah" as in that no longer holds true. It was indeed happening at that time though, the modernist movement in Islam was very big but Maududi's work changed all that in the second half of the Century.
Kayden Wood
I could just as well mention the so-called Arab Spring of 2011, which in theory at least was a movement for more democracy (aka democratization). It would make zero sense for Evola, who believed in the eternal cycle of the Yugas, to make an exception here and there for certain faiths. By the time of the publication of Ride the Tiger, he had come to the right conclusion that this devolution (as he called it) is inevitable and part of the natural way of things. The current revival of salafism/wahabbism or whatever traditional islamist school is simply a reaction against the modern world, and it too will be democratized (become more vulgar, more materialistic) just as everything devolves to that point.
Dominic Carter
Arab Spring was essentially a western effort like what happened in Ukraine. Nationalism is the real modernist problem, Islam is intend to be a polity. Thankfully anti nationalist movements like the Muslim Brotherhood are growing
Grayson Diaz
Which is why unapologetic materialism is the only sensible position nowadays. I am familiar with the traditionalists, and the rest of the mystics of the 20th, yet none of them assume the 'eschatology' they preach. TK is the most important thinker of our times in that sense, pure unadulterated anarchism, violently materialistic individualism. In a world where morals have degenerated, and the spiritual is cosmogonically lacking/degenerated, one must be completely alienated to preach for a return to tradition while simultaneously saying it is impossible. God is dead. Save yourself, defend your immediate interests, nothing else matters.
Henry Miller
Is that moon thing shiny for everyone or just me?
Aaron Lee
I haven't read any Evola but do you actually think Maudidi still has the same popularity he had in the 70s? "Nah". Islam is queerifying, the only problem is there are now more currents than one can keep track of.
Jonathan Johnson
How is the Muslim Brotherhood growing? You do know more than half of Egyptians approved of the coup against the brotherhood and are quite satisfied with Sisi?
Jordan Mitchell
Well, that's essentially the conclusion of Ride the Tiger. That's what the title means.
Chase Lewis
Imagine going into a discussion about Evola and being this ignorant about the beliefs of Evola or the contents of his best-known work.
Samuel Cruz
What the hell are you talking about, haha. Muslims born in Europe are more traditional than their parents.
Maududi the main source of the contemporary Islamism
You really are confused if you think most people affect anything in any meaningful way., a democratic fallacy. The only people who count are those who take serious action, this is why Joseph de Maistre said the sentiments of most Frenchmen were completely irrelevant to both the Revolution and the Restoration
Bentley Davis
>Muslims born in Europe are more traditional than their parents this is definitely not the case
Depends on the part of Europe, but in areas with widespread Islamic schooling (either state or foreign funded), like the UK, it is definately the case.
Cameron Edwards
>Tells a Muslim in Europe he is more traditional than his parents You are wrong. There is such a trend among some people, yes. There is also a trend to the exact opposite direction. How many LGBTQ+ inclusive mosques have you heard of in North Africa, Turkey, or Pakistan? On the other hand, there are big differences among the intellectually conscious Muslims (regardless of where they are currently living) from different countries. Maudidi has come to a stalemate. He has become absorbed into the orthodoxy. There is still time for Iqbal and Fazurrahman to be appreciated for shaking up the orthodox imagination. Iran, Turkey, and even Pakistan are going to give birth to more secular thinkers as a direct consequence of top-down Islamisation of society. Wait and see.
Also the significance of the french revolution is a pipe dream. Regardless, I can turn that around and say "it is irrelevant if the muslim brotherhood is growing" because I'm not the one who said that. The Muslim Brotherhood has nothing deep to offer to your agitated commoner or to your perturbed intellectual. It is a dead movement.
Jordan Torres
I live in the UK and to say that the Muslim youth here are in anyway seriously traditional is ridiculous
John Price
I want to add, you need to keep in mind that those people who are capable of being radicalised (not traditional but radical), are the same people who are capable of being radical sceptics. Just look at how common "I was an ex radical I swear Islam is evil" is, and this is not only because it is a cashcow but because the radicals are the ones that have tried to make faith into a system of thought rather than a mere form of life.
Nolan Adams
Lgbt mosques don't exist as such. A mosque is really properly established after hiring an imam with an Islamic education. Lgbt mosques are basically like schools that are not accredited issuing degrees
Jacob Ortiz
You do not know what an imam is or how mosques actually function. I bet you haven't been to more than a handful in yourlife. Most imams can barely recite the qur'an properly.
William Cruz
Backtracking at its finest
Isaiah Rogers
The Young Muslims UK is strongly connected to the Muslim Brotherhood
An imam is technically just the leader in prayer, but any imam who is actually a paid professional imam and not an ad hoc imam can absolutely recite Qur'an
Juan Butler
Man I am telling you, I have memorised almost half the qur'an and got beaten by my teachers because I was sinning if I don't pronounce it according to established rules of tajweed and qira'ah. I have been to many mosques in many Muslim countries and European countries and a lot of paid professional imams (often appointed from their home countries) with 'official' Islamic education, and I assure you they would get their asses whooped for mispronouncing everything. In any case many with proper education today were forced into it by their families or the state, and are the future atheist or heretical 'muslims' of the middle east who are much better educated in matters of religion than their parents were. "Wait and see".
Hunter Ramirez
>Muslims born in Europe are more traditional than their parents. Absolutely untrue, most of them smoke weed every day, they love to go clubbing, they don't do the Ramadan, they drink, they don't pray and they're promiscuous, much more so than the average European atheist (not even talking about the drug dealers and wannabe gangsters). A small minority might be getting more traditional as they are in contact with the decadent West, but most of them are more influenced by the decadence than the natives.
Jack Howard
No one cares that you keep posting your reductive infantile faith that can't handle the fact its prophet accepted the words of Satan.
Gabriel Fisher
Google himmler islam or hitler islam. Nazis absolutely loved islam, it's a wonder modern ones hate it.
Jack Reed
Nazis were destroyers of Western civilization, it's no wonder they'd side with Islam.
Evan Perez
This. The mongrel idea that the National Socialist German Worker's Party was right-wing or traditionalistic is a pernicious left-wing slander. Most of their ideas about race are based on Theosophist horseshit, popular among progressives at the time. Eugenics was a progressive idea, antisemitism was strongly left-coded etc. etc.
(Corbyn got in trouble recently for a foreword he wrote to a 1920s socialist book whose author was an antisemite, but it was no coincidence, nor was it proof of Corbyn's own antisemitism. There simply isn't *one single Marxist/socialist* from the 1900s-1930s who *didn't* mutter darkly about the race of rootless capitalists corrupting the blahblah. They typically cut that shit out in the mid-'40s for the obvious reason.)
David Watson
The only reason Islam is hated by Nazis is because of Islamic Terrorism and muslim migration to the west. Many nazis are jealous of islam, and wish for a religion similar for the h'white race.
Ethan Martinez
>it's a wonder modern ones hate it. Muslim=non-whites.
Nathan Harris
Who is TK?
Austin Watson
>because going head-first into "the real thing" would be impossible in today's world oh yeah?
Yeah I don't believe that either. I'd say they're probably more tribalistic though. Which could potentially create a more traditionalist society within the immigrant community(or even the entire host country if they grow to be a big enough minority) than the society from which they came from.
Michael Gray
>Maududi Just bog standard behead those that insult islam stuff.
Mason Bennett
Eh. Hitler had no problem with it. The nazi propaganda ministry went so far to ban the use of anti-Semitism in newspapers and use the term anti-judaism instead to appease Arabs. Arabs were basically exempt from the nazis racial laws and were more or loss allowed to marry and have sex with Germans. Nazi ideologues praised islam to no end, comparing the caliph principle to the fuhrer principle. Hitler actually fantasized about the ottomans winning in Vienna so germans might be converted to islam. I could go on forever. Truth of the matter is that nazis have nothing against islam. In islam women are chaste, the men fiercely loyal to their community, the poor are taken care of, and usury is forbidden. Right wing kids on the internet hate islam because they still have that little neo con in them, those ben shapiro talking points that they and Yea Forums in general absorbed in their youth.
Cameron Morris
Unironically, nazis take Islam's 'traditional values' and Israel's racism as the ideal model for a white ethnostate.
Logan Morris
and that's a good thing
Samuel Gomez
Because it looks dope
Gavin Murphy
Yeah sure if you're a horrible person. Good is relative after all.
Jacob Johnson
>taking any shitposts you read about him on Yea Forums seriously He was an expert in world religions and myths Anybody who thinks he isn't worth reading because he's an evil right winger is retarded
Asher Mitchell
Someone hasnt read Ride the Tiger >TK is the most important thinker of our tines in that sense, pure unadulterated anarchism, violently materialistic individualism Yikes, black pill alert Taking the nihilist pill is just admitting defeat
Christian Perez
The problem with the quote in OP is that you need an equivalent of a priestly caste to tell you what can count as the Law, otherwise there won't be any unitary law but each will be doing what they want and say "but like that's my interpretation"
Nicholas Reyes
This. And that's literally what's happened with Protestantism, which is why you get really, really weird Protestant shit like the Prosperity Gospel and the Unitarians.
Kayden Williams
This Vast majority are petty criminals There's nothing in islam about being a pimp, rapist, or home invader.
Evola did disagree with Guenon on the importance of the priestly caste Evola placed the warrior caste first whereas Guenon placed the preistly caste as most important
Jason Barnes
But what I'm saying is, if - and I don't know his work well - he is buying the myth that Islam doesn't or didn't have a priestly caste, then his opinion on it isn't very important.
Lincoln Young
He just says that islam mediates the preistly caste he didnt say it didnt have one He believes in the caste system you cant not have a preistly caste He just believed the warriors were the highest, and what he's saying here is that its more militaristic and organized It removed the fluff essentially
Isaac Sanders
Interesting. Do you think the Tiger book is a good start?
Jordan Taylor
Revolt Agianst the Modern World has a large section on the caste system but I wouldn't rec that book for someone new to Evola as he dives pretty deep into the Traditionalist rabbit hole and you can get lost if you dont already know what he's talking about I would suggest either Ride the Tiger or Men Among the Ruins first
Owen Stewart
You need to stop believing what you see on fox. The majority of Muslims in the UK (90%+) are no where near as traditional as their parents. I know many that drink, do drugs and girls that sleep around and don’t wear hijabs. The rest are probably just as traditional as they live in majority Muslim areas (this applies more to women than men) and a very small percent are the one becoming radicalised which you could consider becoming more traditional.
Aiden Thomas
There's a difference between respecting another people and allowing millions of the lowest strata of those people into your society at the expense of the natives who are having an increasingly harder time getting by due to our kike masters sucking us dry for generations.
Jacob Hill
He wore it ironically to mock the bourgeoisie as part of the whole "ride the tiger" thing
Ryan Young
It's not the actual religion that mattered to Evola but the mentality behind it.
Camden Barnes
by the time he wrote ride the tiger he was quite old and wasn't wearing a monocle anymore afiak
He criticized the Italian stereotype of being pasta-eating overly emotional Neanderthals who get angry at the drop of a hat. So no, he would not be pleased.
