Why do people meme the idea of villains getting redeemed...

The diamonds all committed countless atrocities for 1000s of years, long before Pink “died” so the grief angle is bullshit.
There’s a certain point where a villain doesn’t deserve to be redeemed.

>help children in disadvantaged communities.
Helped enough to counter the, well, you know... the, MURDERS? I don't get the point. There is no reason for taking the risk. The good they can provide is pretty null, and the bad they still do is really fucking bad. I can get down with all life being precious, but not as an inflexible rule that can't be broken or bent. If you murder a little kid, your life is no longer a precious thing. The same as if you had broke a contract, you are no longer a precious life that deserves anything from anyone. The only reason to think otherwise, is so you can pretend to be "better" than people that don't agree with you. Most writers need to pretend to be better than everyone else, for some pathetic reason.

Holding a grudge against people from a country that was genocidal and imperialistic in the past is bad, sure. Holding a grudge against the specific people responsible for said genocide and imperialism is only common sense.

Of course, in SU if the diamonds didn't play ball there was basically fuck-all they could've done to actually stop them anyway, so its a bit of a moot point.

In fiction all kinds of crazy shit can happen as long as you make your audience buy it. If they're not buying a villain's redemption then it's on the writer for not making it believable/earned or at least appealing and fun enough for the audience to accept it. Nobody memes about Zuko

This is all an emotionally based argument.

as a russian palling to leave russia when shit with ukraine end, i'am kinda interested when peoples' about this... incident will cool off

Could steven redeem hitler?
Seems like he shouldn't be able to, but then again he can literally alter people's emotions.

Yes they can be redeemed. Watch.

>tries to get a gay spider out of hell
>asks dad who is the devil himself

See I did it! Yaaaaayy

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why cant villains just be villains why do they HAVE to be redeemable

Because they're people. Humanizing villains is the right thing to do. When we view people as a fundamentally different material than us, there's no discussion to be had as to how to stop people from becoming like them.

Sometimes people who do bad things can be redeemed, however, the opposite is also true where some people who do bad things can never be redeemed. When the bad deed in question had a point, a logical conclusion, then there is a chance that you can logically unravel them to see the errors of their ways. When it is something instinctual, something that is a part of their psyche that they can't explain, then there is no chance of them being redeemed.

Not that user but it's not an emotional argument if you are looking at a high risk individual being rehabilitated into society. The vast majority of people do not kill unprovoked. If someone murders another person it's same to assume that person is a risk to everyone around them.

You can humanize villains without making them humane.

Villainous villains can still critique the human condition by exposing the fact sometimes people are just so screwed up in the head that they can't do anything but be evil.

The point OP is making is that people's actions should be treated as a result of circumstances rather than being immutable traits of one's character. Sometimes bad people are actually just misunderstood and never got a fair shake rather being a picture of a sociopath beyond reprieve.

I remember a villain who was so fucking evil and screwed up in the head that he practically came full circle into having some twisted inkling of humanity, but that's a story for Yea Forums.

>Humanizing villains is the right thing to do
Sometimes people just don't give shits, man. It's not always about having a bad past or losing a loved one.

Some people just want their way and don't give a shit who they step on to get it.

>Sometimes bad people are actually just misunderstood and never got a fair shake rather being a picture of a sociopath beyond reprieve.
Like Putin?

Can't remember the name, but is one guy in Africa who lead a war band, committed crimes, had child soldiers, etc. Gave it all up and started helping the community and help stop kids from going down that path.

Ofc lot of people believe he needs to be taken to court and tried for his crimes.

Godwin applies even if the name "Hitler" isn't used, user.

I have a feeling who you are talking about but I can't be sure. Just post it.

Is that a full mouth or just a lower lip?

Sometimes I think it confers more complexity and respect to a villain if they DO NOT REDEEM sirs. Like gollum. He’s a piece of shit until the bitter end, but you still feel sorry for him and recognise he’s a weak willed victim of an evil he was never equipped to deal with. He doesn’t need redemption for you to have sympathy for him

I think the only truly irredeemable crime is rape. There's something especially evil about irreversibly poisoning someone's life as opposed to simply removing it.

This is a good point. You don't always need the villain to change colours, just knowing they had a tragic life is enough. That way you can have your human villain but also the monster.

The "Bad background means bad stuff okay" meme needs to die. It completely denies the agency of the perpetrator, and ignores the fact that people in equally bad or worse off situations, didn't resort to disgusting, malevolent acts. Committing evil acts is ultimately a choice, regardless of circumstance.

I think in that universe WWII never happened so Hitler was probably just an angry failed artist.

Don't dodge the question user.

>Because they're people. Humanizing villains is the right thing to do.
Your fault is assuming people are good deep down, Rosseau. If anything, humanizing those gems could mean making them more cunning and sadistic.

good morning sir

Hitler is more redeemable than the Diamonds. Not that he's redeemable, but the Diamonds are guilty of an unimaginable level of destruction and suffering.

You have very limited experience with people then. People's pasts determine who they are. Under the right set of circumstances, anyone can be anything.

Yes and no. There are people who live in quite ordinary house holds that for one reason or another are completely fucked in the head with a lack of empathy.

That's assuming that those households and experiences they've had were indeed ordinary/favorable.

Psychology is a fickle thing. Nurture is one thing, nature definitely has a part to play in it.

People can look like they have those things on the outside, but on the inside it can be completely hellish for them. Even rich people's can be rife with all sorts of problems.

I feel like I was the only person who wasn't clamoring for Jasper to be redeemed

I'm not dodging the question, I'm suggesting you're using bad faith for the statement.

>rape
>"irreversibly poisoning someone's life"
Where the fuck does this overdramatization of rape come from? Seriously. It's barely worse than punching someone.

user you specifically are arguing anyone can be redeemable based on the situations of their living conditions. That applies to everyone including dictators. Otherwise you are fucking wrong and my example proves this. Either admit Putin is redeemable or admit you're wrong.

I also posted this

Believing in redemption and recognizing sociopathic behavior are two ideas you can have at the same time.

>People's pasts determine who they are. Under the right set of circumstances, anyone can be anything.
Now this is just trolling.

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>user you specifically are arguing anyone can be redeemable based on the situations of their living conditions.

Quote the post where I said that, because I didn't even say "anyone" or anything remotely resembling that because "sometimes" was my operative term.

It's hardly bad faith. Hitler is actually the perfect example to use as a test for that logic. It's well documented that Hitler's father Alois was a complete psychopath and treated his family like animals. If having "bad circumstances" or a tragic backstory makes monstrous evil okay, Hitler should get away scot free. In fact I'd wager most of the worst monsters in history would.

Its literally true.

Holy crap, Alois!

This creature from Edens Zero is who I was talking about. And his story was some messed up shit, especially from this author.
Granted, the guy started out as a good kid before a combination of neglect and dark powers steered him towards a life of turning people into bloody paste to slather on his ceiling, but it still gave him life. So when he actually fell in love with one of his torture victims after days of beating her, walking her naked and shoving bombs up her ass, he thought it was some of that love-brainwashing magic she awakened in the process and not the last shred of humanity desperately clawing beneath the floorboards, because the fact that she got Stockholm for him and brainwashed herself into loving him after all that was proof enough to him that only a bigger shitbag than he was could ever love him for real. So imagine his shock and confusion when, after her original love interest lifted the spell on her, she also proved herself to be that special shitbag when she willingly returned to die with him and show him that there was still a human heart beating in his rotten soul, which never would've happened if he wasn't so monstrously evil that he gave her Stockholm for him in the first place.

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they can't be redeemed
kill them

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Hays Code.

Japan doesn't have this problem.

I'm so utterly confused by this post, what's with the unsolicited opinions on abortion in a thread about cartoon villains?

>NO PLEASE OPTIMUS I AM A GOOD MAN WHO FALTERED AND JOINED THE DECEPTICONS IN A MOMENT OF FEAR AND WEAKNESS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE OPTIMUS IM SO FUCKING SORRY IM DISGUSTED WITH MYSELF AND WANT TO CHANGE NO OPTIMUS PL-
was this scene really necessary?

Are you talking about General Butt Naked from that Vice documentary about territory wars in Liberia? The guy who fought without clothes and ate innocent children's hearts and shit?

Yeah, purely economic reasons right?
People are more than just machines programmed by their history.

>Nobody is irredeemable.
You sure about that.

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>"You're acting like a jew!"
>"I am a jew. What's your excuse?"
>Hitler blushes

mt

They're tired of Hero Saves The World stories where the main character gets to decide the fate of the enemy with no input from any of the other victims because their not important people in the story. A reflection of their own lives where they cannot hold those in power to account and are thus frustrated at the lack of catharsis, but blame it on the lack punishment rather than consider the lack of democracy inherent to Hero Saves The World narratives.