Hiw is this "wanting to hold the knife"? He trusted other people entirely
Hiw is this "wanting to hold the knife"? He trusted other people entirely
Hard to say it's trusting people when he took it upon himself to look through time, saw what he thought was the only way, did it without telling anyone, and then got Stark killed. Feels like the trust in this scenario was from Stark trusting Strange.
This ties in to other doc at the wedding asking Strange if there was another way. Strange doesn't think there was, but then the Illuminati figured it out. Sure it's another universe but it's also possible if Strange looked elsewhere he'd have found a different way that didn't involve dusting anyone.
You have to admit that this was a gamble that he had others deal with. There was no vote, no warning, an "Endgame" that only Strange knew the possible outcome of. It was a risk that in hindsight meant Strange wouldn't be held accountable if it failed. After all, he didn't exist
The implications, I think, are that Strange was looking at the alternate timelines of his own universe and never saw one where he or anyone else came up with another victory, but that method is limited because if there were things that WOULD work that nobody tried then he wouldn't see them and wouldn't learn about them through peeking into time. We might assume that Strange would see that the timeline where he knocked out Star Lord before the idiot ruined them getting Thanos' gauntlet still lead to failure. Probably Thanos whooped all their asses without his bling and got it back. BUT Strange is clearly aware of the Book of Vishanti which we learn could have defeated Thanos, therefore we may safely assume (though it's still just an assumption) that Strange never thought to use it. One might say that Strange didn't have time to do that...but he did have a Time Stone so arguably all the time he'd ever want.
The multiverde is infimite. How many realities more should he look into
>Strange is clearly aware of the Book of Vishanti
He dismisses it as a legend in the beginning of MOM
Because he is a hetero white male.
Obviously he is always in the wrong.
For solutions he looked into time, not the multiverse, so it's moot.
Which it wasn't, which means half the universe was dusted for years because he dismissed it out of hand. That was rather the point. There are other possibilities he surely overlooked that could have stopped Thanos.
Strange set up the Endgame but with wildly incomplete information.
What's weird about this sudden judgment against Doctor Strange is that before MoM, I never saw anyone claiming Doctor Strange was wrong. I'm sure they existed but they were clearly not the norm. Most people were arguing about whether Mantis, Starlord, Nebula, etc. were in the wrong, but everyone kind of just agreed that what Strange accomplished was all he could do, because everyone simply accepted that he saw all possible outcomes and only one of them resulted in victory.
Then after MoM came out suddenly everyone is acting like this movie was righting some kind of wrong that has always been controversial or something.
>because he dismissed it out of hand
Not that user but why the fuck would he pursue a fucking fairy tale? That's a waste of time and he's not dealing with any bullshit. Wong even said knowledge of the book was only privy to sorcerer supremes, meaning no one at that time knew it was real
What's funny is that you're criticizing a fictional man who had the fictional power to peer into thousands upon thousands of timelines, but you're acting like such power is something any average joe could rightfully judge because surely you or me would be better timeline-flipping prophets right
That what made him different from the others. Essentially this is the first step to his character arc
You're saying there are other possibilities without even knowing anything about this particular universe outside of what the movies have presented. Before MoM came out, most people were just accepting that Strange had to give the stone because we really had no reason to doubt he was wrong. He didn't know the nature of multiverse, the stones, or Thanos' power outside of the movies.
It's clear that the writers thought what Strange did was the best option, because Strange wasn't criticized in the movies as this terribly wrong person until MoM came out.
>BUT Strange is clearly aware of the Book of Vishanti which we learn could have defeated Thanos
He thought it was a myth, which made me realize that all of the possibilities Strange saw were only the ones he thought were possible.
women say dumb shit to justify turning dudes down all the time. plus it's a movie for the common denominator crowd, don't over think it.
Which would make since
>Not that user but why the fuck would he pursue a fucking fairy tale?
I mean you're asking that when it turned out it not only wasn't a fairy tale but could have been used to stop Thanos. Pretty self explanatory, user.
That post said what you said.
>but that method is limited because if there were things that WOULD work that nobody tried then he wouldn't see them and wouldn't learn about them through peeking into time.
.....You're not really getting the point here, are you? Strange may have an open mind given the shit he's done/seen, but he's not a fucking retard like you who is willing to waste time chasing something ONLY ONE PERSON KNEW EXISTED when trillions of lives were at stake. By your logic Strange should have been looking for a magic lamp that craps out a magic sea monkey that grants wishes some drunk guy in a bar muttered one time. And as others said, Wong specifically stated that only a sorcerer surpreme knew it was real after reading a different secret book upon earning the job, which none were in the position at that time. AND THEN even under the ludicrous asspull that Strange found out it was real by some off chance, he had no way of knowing how to get to a plain of existence that is in-between realities. The only way he got to it in MoM is because a different Strange did all of the hard work.
So in short, you're an idiot
Yes one single instance where there was literally no other possibility of success. Exception that proves the rule friendo
He is arrogant so the first thought of script writers is to make he learn to be humble (again)
Literally everything about Dr Strange in MOM was so the film can work. Infinity War Strange would never say shit to Wanda & would destroy everyone except bullshit power Wanda in seconds.
Feel like shit, just want her back
He threw her ass in the mirror dimension, and look how well that turned out. It's kind of hard casting spells when your opponent is basically that little fucker on the playground making up rules as they go. Wanda rewrites reality on a whim and negates anything thrown at her. Hell I only think the damned souls were effective given the psychological aspect of the attack
He literally looked into the future and saw that there was no other way, and he couldn't even tell other people about it cause that could fuck up the plan. Not sure I'd call that trust. He had no choice but to do it this way.
Multiverse and the sticky TVA issues aside, with Doc Strange picking the one scenario I assumed it was the route that ensured victory over Thanos but also guaranteed the Infinity Gauntlet (and stones) wouldn’t be used by anyone else once everything was over. If they managed to get the gauntlet with the stones what could stop someone like Bruce grabbing the gauntlet to solve his Hulk problem (and Hulk to take over and snap whatever he wants instead). There’s possibilities of worse things happening outside of Thanos (temporarily) getting what he wants.
>When Infinity War came out everybody shat on the "14 million possibilities" line because it was obviously shit writing to justify whatever shit Marvel wanted to put in Endgame
>Now people are seriously discussing the implications of that line
The reality is that Marvel movies have shit writing and they always had shit writing. No shit Strange comes out as a dickhead and his reputation will only get worse as the movies go on and the number of powers and artifacts that could have easily beaten Thanos increases.
Noooo dont say that! You are undoing my denver model therapy
No, you're just ignorant. It was a meme for a while that Strange had set up Stark's death after end game.
I don't know, I don't watch this fucking garbage.
>.....You're not really getting the point here, are you?
And you certainly aren't, epsecially when you reiterate what was obviously already said
>Strange may have an open mind given the shit he's done/seen
And as for wasting time, dude has a fucking Time Stone which was already stated above. Dude has all the time in the world. In any world. But then you flap your gums and get spittle on your screen all while calling someone else on the internet an idiot all while ironically...not really getting the point here. After all, you go on to dribble about Strange having other Stranges do the hard work for him, which is par for the course considering he only got the answer he did by peering through time at what everyone else had tried.
So by all means keep supporting the case you're supposedly arguing against.
Oh I am sorry
How did they beat Thanos in the Illuminati universe again? Darkhold something?
They used the Book of the Vishanti, then decided their Strange was too dangerous and killed him too.
The thing is when he was looking through the timelines did those include ones where he was fighting? Because if he was viewing all those universes through time eyesight or whatever then he couldn't have actually been actually participating in them could he?
Presumably so, having to skip any universe where he similarly though to use the Time Stone to peek through time, which would have been redundant in the extreme.
But what I mean is that this isn't multiverse stuff, this is timeline stuff, so how was he seeing timelines where he took active participation if he would still have been meditating? Like he was fast forwarding his consciousness through timelines and rewinding but he would have had to remain a passive observer while doing it for every timeline.
They had to generate fake drama to give him some sort of arc. I forgot that hag bitch existed, and I saw the first movie only a couple years ago.
Time Stone. It's fuckery supreme, like the other stones. Basic answer is it don't give a fuck with the how, it just does.
Or as the first Strange film said, it busts the universe a new one when it manipulates time.
The problem, ultimately is that either Strange should have kept looking, as in maybe there was only 1 victory possible for every million or so where they failed, but if he kept looking he might eventually find other paths to victory. For instance in this case the ingredients likely weren't correct. If you swap out Tony for Rhodey, for instance, you get the easy peasy victory timeline where Strange uses the Time Stone to turn Thanos back into a baby and then lets what must be done be done.
HE DOESNT KNOW IT EXISTS YOU IDIOT. In what fucking timeline does he know it exists out of the blue, or consider it an option? This is like you arguing the Easter Bunny being a reliable method to pay your taxes. Do I need to type slower?
You’re neglecting the fact that Strange Supreme was Sorcerer Supreme in his universe, thus knew it existed, thus had tangible reason to look for it. Mainline Strange had no such background
>HE DOESNT KNOW IT EXISTS YOU IDIOT.
No, he assumed it did not. This is a very different thing, and as it turned out, he was wrong. Fret not, you have that in common with the good doctor.
> In what fucking timeline does he know it exists
Actually the current timeline, obviously. If he'd just watched further ahead in the victory timeline, which he already gave five additional years after Thanos dusted half the universe's population, he'd have found out.
>This is like you arguing the Easter Bunny being a reliable method to pay your taxes
Wow, pulled that one out of your ass in a desperate ploy to prove you were right. I hope the straw didn't chaff your asshole too much.
>Do I need to type slower?
I'd recommend thinking more before you type, but sure typing slower might help you out a bit. Couldn't hurt, right?
>You’re neglecting the fact that Strange Supreme was Sorcerer Supreme in his universe
Doctor Strange was the Sorcerer Supreme in his universe too. Both this film and the earlier Spider-Man point out that the Sorcerer Supreme is Wong now because Strange was dusted for five years.
He'd also need to not stop at the death of Thanos in order to see that another Thanos from 2014 was going to timejump before getting put down himself with Stark's sacrifice.
It was a pretty convoluted victory as well as costly, but a win is a win!
he looked into every timeline where the TVA pruned it and saw that the only timeline that didn't get pruned was the one where he gave the time stone
>Doctor Strange was the Sorcerer Supreme in his universe too
No, he never obtained that title officially, even before The Blip, hence why he never knew the book existed.
You don't pay attention
You're trying to jump through mental hoops to justify Strange knowing about the book of Vishanti being real before he ever should as a "viable" method to stop Thanos. There's no logic here to where Strange would consider it an option. Plus in his character, he's not going to risk trillions of lives on something he's only heard in passing an wildly considered fiction even within most of the sorcerer ranks. Here's a basic rundown of what he was using the time stone for
>Okay should I use the crimson bands of cyttorak here, THEN the mirror dimension spell? What about countering the space wave with this spell? No the butterflies lead to more favorable outcomes. Alright so I need to throw stepping stones for Star Lord here, get hit by Spider-Man here...
And so on, and so forth. You only consider it feasible because you, an audience member, have context Infinity War Strange does not. And as already said, Strange Supreme had the proper context to seek it out prior and seek other universes for solutions, something else MCU 616 Strange did not have the luxury to do
He didn't after his own movie, when he put the Eye of Agamotto/Time Stone back, but there was time in between. The fact that he was wearing the Eye/Stone in Infinity War should have tipped you to the fact that this was Sorcerer Supreme Strange.
Strange didn't believe the book actually existed.
user, you're talking about a film where a man uses a super duper green rock to peer through millions of timelines for an answer he doesn't otherwise have, and then complaining about jumping through mental hoops. Wow. Just wow.
> You only consider it feasible because you, an audience member, have context Infinity War Strange does not.
Congratulations, you've just caught up with the second post in the thread. Maybe eventually you'll figure out the rest of the it.
>but there was time in between.
Which he still never obtained that title. At the end of his first film, Wong said he needed to keep training. It was never stated anywhere that he officially obtained the rank. Ever. When the blip happened, Wong took the title as he was Strange's mentor at the time and next in line. After that, he was permitted access to the book that told secrets, including confirmation that The Book of Vishanti was indeed real.
Strange is a skilled sorcerer, but he never officially was granted the rank. You're confusing talent for their order's customs. In short, you're wrong
>It was never stated anywhere that he officially obtained the rank.
Do they even need to say it when they show it? MCU films aren't all that subtle, you need them to hold your hand harder?
You're being defensive because you're headcanon doesn't match up with what we are told or what happened. 14 million variations of futures Doctor Strange was laying out in front of him, none of which where a book Strange wrote off as fake were considered. That's a fact.
They directly tell you he never got it. There's no debate here. This is you now refusing to admit you're wrong and now pushing headcanon,
Hmmmmm and now other possibilities open up because kang was killed
That's rich considering how much you're trying to dismiss from the current film. Him always having his hand on the knife, which he did in Infinity War and Endgame, was a problem. You claiming that Strange not finding a solution in MCU 616 because he dismissed the book isn't proving anything but that very fact that he himself was the problem.
That has been said so many times in this thread I don't think there's any help for you. No wonder that part of the film flew over your head.
He never got what? The title that comes with holding the Eye of Agamotto which is why he didn't wear it at the end of his origin film but eventually was by Infinity War?
It's pretty clear someone here isn't getting something. Need a hint?
I'm not dismissing anything, I'm going by what the story tells me. This isn't a complicated theme or story, user, and yet you seem to have a hard time following it. No, there was no good reason for Infinity War Strange to even think the book was an option because, and again you need told this, he didn't think it was real.
>He never got what?
The official rank of sorcerer supreme. They tell you this repeatedly. Now you're acting like a cunt because you know you're wrong.
Or was all of this a (You) fishing attempt?