Outwits the bat

>>Outwits the bat

She didn't outwit shit, she just has a magic power that basically amounts to "immune to being caught". Takes as much brainpower for her to evade Batman as it takes for Superman to outwit a bullet.

>well, her deletion probably show how woke DC has becomed

Nah, that's not the reason she was discarded (though they definitely wouldn't design her looking like that now). She's simply a really bad villain to write actual stories about. Let's recap:
>white rabbit (chick in the OP) is not a real person, but basically the tulpa of some entirely different indian chick who goes out and commits crimes
>there is NO material connection or evidence to connect the two, they're totally independent of each other, can appear at the same time in different locations etc. and the indian doesn't need to actively control the WR (it's unclear if she even can)
>the tulpa can, whenever it wants, just stop existing for a while, rendering catching or defeating it totally impossible
>it's unclear if the originator even knows about any of this so even telepathy might not work
>certainly none of this can be proven in any court of law, or in a lab, because we're dealing with a strictly magical phenomenon here

So what the fuck is Batman supposed to do? There is literally no possible way for him to draw any kind of a connection between WR and the indian. Only heroes who MIGHT have a chance are strictly magical ones like John Constantine and Zatanna, and they'd have to use like scrying and foretelling and portents and shit because again there is NO physical evidence of any connection between the tulpa and the origin.

That's why she wasn't used. Because she's a Batman villain that Batman cannot ever defeat, or even hinder in any meaningful sense. Makes for shitty stories.

>the tulpa can, whenever it wants, just stop existing for a while, rendering catching or defeating it totally impossible
She actually needs to give her gauntlet to the indian
>it's unclear if the originator even knows about any of this so even telepathy might not work
They show that she talks with the tulpa rabbit
>there is NO material connection or evidence to connect the two, they're totally independent of each other, can appear at the same time in different locations etc. and the indian doesn't need to actively control the WR (it's unclear if she even can)
the long gloves count as evidence.

>certainly none of this can be proven in any court of law, or in a lab, because we're dealing with a strictly magical phenomenon here
also this is not the first time that the bat has caught a villain who used magic instead of science

There are a ways that Batman could have dealt with her, some of them would be quite interesting. One of them would be to become increasingly paranoid and start doubting his loved ones (in those comics the indian chick was the love interest of Bruce at the time) If he found the glove he could have connected the dots, if he put cameras on her house he could see the rabbit tulpa entering the house and merging, he could tell her info that only she and him know and see if the rabbit tulpa uses that info on her plans, showing a correlation between the indian and the rabbit tulpa.

So as I've shown, there are ways to solve the mystery for the bad without going for cheap deus ex machinas. I think it would actually make good development for bat, just keep in mind that this is my opinion, feel free to disagree, we can even discuss it further

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I always assumed her power was literally "getting away from anything", which is why she could escape from Batman and even the Flash.

>that kind of shit wouldn't fly in today's comics where Batman is a god like mary sue.
Batgod hasn’t been a thing in forever.
Batman even died in Dark Crisis.
He constantly loses to badguys. Gotham is constantly taken over. He gets tricked by everyone.

He is even killed off in most modern Elseworlds like DCeased.

>Batgod hasn’t been a thing in forever.
-he dodged Darkseid's rays, the ones that were unavoidable
-Remember the button and doomsday clock?
-Have you read the batman who laughs? that guy just becomes a freaking god just by not having compassion, what kind of plot armor is that?

All of you guys are wrong. The true reason why she dissapeared is because Alpha Alfred caught her and put her in his sex dungeon which he build with the money he received from being a butler for god knows how many years
Couldn't escape alfred though

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you know, if they really were going in on making her look like a disgusting hag wearing abunny g-string, they should have went all-in and just removed the leggings

In a part I agree with you, it would be interesting that the hag dresses as she were a young beauty. On the other hand I don't want to bleach my eyes every time I see her, maybe it could work that the hag is the real one and she projects an illusion/tulpa (like in the comics) which looks like a girl just like in the comics

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>DC White Rabbit
Pathethic. Not a boss-level villain at all.

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alice in wonderland is an underrated theming for villains/heroes

Dude, she orchestrated a whole outbreak of arkham prison.
Got a shit ton of the main villains as her puppets (two face, crocodile, clayface, deathstroke poison ivy and more)
Won a fight against the bat, he had to get saved by the flash.
How many times have you seen that?

I completely agree, Alice in wonderland as a theme has great possibilities, a shame that the mad hatter is underutilized. A villain that makes the world go schizo like the mad hatter in arkham city would be a great comic

Oh yeah? Well Lorina, huh, Lorina leads her own supervillain squad. And is classier. And with more money.

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Lorina has never won against spiderman
She is a gag character, nobody takes her seriously
Only one hero is needed to beat her, the hero usually beats her in the same volume
Has an Alice in wonderland theme yet doesn't use it in any interesting way.
See the image, those are her stats, even the retard of captain marvel has higher intelligence, and I'm talking about Carol Denver.

Seems you need to take a bit of Copium, user

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Lorina could buy that publication and get better stats user. She doesn't need your approval. This is all merely a game to her. Have you truly see Lorina fight? Clearly not, she doesn't need to beat up Spiderman - she has goons to do that for her. Just like a boss-level villain would. I'd say Lorina is probably above Kingpin tier in terms of power and influence.

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I know this is a shitpost but Lorina doesn't have that much money, she doesn't compare to Billionaires like Tony Stark, Batman, Kingpin or Lex luthor. She has 10/20 goons top in almost all the comics and they are just cannon fodder.

Not unlike WR from DC who gets most gotham villains to beat up the bat, almost killed the Flash, needed the most powerful justice league members to fight just to stop her plan, she didn't even get caught. Was so good that she had to be erased so she wouldn't be caught in the fiasco that is the current comic industry.
Most based villain

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I remember Peter David randomly giving her inhuman strength in one story where she was shown throwing adult men around like it was nothing.

>Lorina has never won against spiderman
That goes for most of New York. The Kingpin gets by strictly by not fucking around in Queens.

I really wish they would phase the fat bastard out already. A fanfic I read illustrates perfectly how tired Fisk is as a character. He operates through his goons, everyone knows who he is, and he has no right to exist in a world with superpowers as the Kingpin.

I agree to a degree with you, he has no right to exist, but on the way that he works. Kingpin has been severely powercrept by all the heroes around him, he was created in a time were superheroes would fight with goons and the villains weren't fucking gods. Nowadays Kingpin has stayed the same, using the same old tactics. To make him a credible threat he should use his money to force the heroes (in most cases spiderman) to make difficult decisions, maybe he could use his money so the people around him start to turn on him, start bribing people and installing cameras around the city to discover his identity, threaten his loved ones, etc. That would make a true threat to these heroes who can overpower any goon that he throws at them

All it takes is one supervillain with nothing he isn't willing to sacrifice to kill him. Fic I read makes a point that non-powered people are still capable, but Fisk's a brute force kind of guy with little to no subtlety. He couldn't ever win a fight with a super above his weightclass, much less one that was competent without the powers in the first place.

>she orchestrated a whole outbreak of arkham prison.
You can organize a breakout from Arkham by just kicking a wall and letting it crumble so everyone pours out. I've seen daycare centers that are harder to break into-out of.
>Got a shit ton of the main villains as her puppets (two face, crocodile, clayface, deathstroke poison ivy and more)
That's the way every major modern Batman villain starts before becoming yet another dupe (Bane, Thomas Bats, Hush, even Croc in his pre crisis debut had shades of that).

wouldn't spidey notice the cameras and just tear them down?
that's a lot of money for nothing

Not all cameras are as big as cctv’s, with the billions that he has he could install micro cameras in most places. Also doesn’t manhattan have a shit ton of cameras everywhere? He could bribe his way to get access to these cameras too

still, it's not fullproof
and going after a heroes family is a quick way to get your shit wrecked

Arkham it’s actually heavily guarded, though inmates break out of it a shit ton of times because of the plot, mostly to show that the villain who is behind it is a 300 IQ mastermind or that he is a superhuman who just says fuck the walls, fuck the guards, and fuck the guns and just bulldozes through the security.

Ah yes, because spidey is feared by his villains. Jokes aside kingpin is literally an underground mafia boss, do you think he would get too intimidated by a teen in spandex to not do what he has to do? Being a mafia boss means having your life on the line all the time, most of your subordinates want to kill you and get your power, your rivals want to kill you, some of the police want to kill you, etc. How does he keep them all in line? Fear. He makes them know that if they mess with him, everything they love will go away

>because spidey is feared by his villains
he is

dude's had entire arcs where stopped fucking around and all of his villains pissed themselves when he went after them

I’m not saying it’s foolproof; hell, this is a comic, they could invent any bullshit reason for the hero to beat an even better plan that I’ve just made. What I’m trying to say is that those are ways to make him
A) more competent, the way the has he has been working isn’t doing it anymore
B) make him an actual threat
C)make his arc/ fight against him more memorable instead of the overused beat goons, find bad guy, beat his goons, beat his ass, repeat.

The folly with that line of thinking is that it often leads to people hating you, which means them more likely to plot together to kill you. And if people are already plotting to kill you, it means they hate you already and you haven't extended a business hand.
You'd have to change his character first. The brute force thug doth not a mastermind make. Also, better writers so the mastermind shit makes sense.

The one fic I read really does this and explain this well, holy shit.

I completely disagree. Pedo book for edgy pedos, all that can be said about it and made edgy has been done by Burton, that video game, and all the B-List villains that already have it as a theme.

>You'd have to change his character first. The brute force thug doth not a mastermind make
This isn't even an elaborate scheme, it's the simplest shit possible, even monkey during experiment know that if you try something a lot of times and it doesn't get you results you try another thing. Also even your average thug knows that intimidation is a valid form of force. He is a kingpin, he didn't get to that place just by sending goons to everyone, he has to know which tool to use at which time.

Someone edit this to say "Wait till she gets my load"

your plan relies on the installation of micro-cameras everywhere on the rooftops in new york, no one noticing them, your target falling to intimidation, and there being anything there you can use to intimidate in the first place

Yeah, that's the thing: we're never shown how Fisk rose to power and he's never written with the kind of subtlety or intellect you think he should have.

At that point, you may as well higher a super with stealth skills or powers, which is just having goons do things for him.

have you even read the book? Burton and the videogame don't even come close to the book, even if you don't consider how shitty the characters are in these pieces of media, the original book( counting both of the alice's book's) is full of paradoxes, riddles and interesting things.
I'll use the white rabbit from DC as an example, if you've read the comic where she appears, everytime she is chasen by bats he is unable to catch her, it's as if no matter how fast you go you won't be able to catch her unless she wants to. This is a reference to the white rabbit in the original book. But you could make this "power" (we didn't really get an explanation about all the things she does) much more interesting, it could be a reality bending power where everytime someone tries to catch her the reality bends so it doesn't happen, we see this when she dissapears out of nowhere and when is being chased on the train(everytime the bat gets close, she appears at the other side of the next wagon), you could even make it an achilles paradox, everytime you get closer to her, it gets harder to get even closer( this could be used for heroes like the flash, where no matter how fast he goes he can't catch her)

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Forgot to say this, in Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (The sequel of Alice in Wonderland) there is a part where walking towards a place gets you farther from it, and to stay still you have to run. You could use these kind of reality bending things which defy common reason as the powers of an Alice in Wonderland themed villain or as the powers of these particular villain which I used as an example (White rabbit)

>it's deep because it's a children's story given a quantum sci-fi explanation and applied to a children's superhero comic

Thanks, Grant Morrison. Next time you can just say you like her because she's in pink knickers.

I'm not quite sure which point you wanted to make, but just in case I'll try to answer the ones that I think they could possibly be

A)I've given an explanation in which I've mentioned the paradoxes just to justify that i like the character: I'm actually a fan of the works of Alice and logic mixed with mathemathics. I sometimes read philosophy and I want to get into Russel and Wittgenstein.
B) Alice in wonderland is a try hard book which tries to sound deep just by incorporating "hard" things: That is most certainly false, Charles Dodgeson created this book not for the academic community, but for the girl that he had affection for, the book wasn't even made to be published at first, Charles Dodgeson was a mathemathician who liked paradoxes, logic, wordgames and other related things, that's why the book includes them.
C) A comic book or a children's story can't have deep elements: Again, I consider that to be false, a comic as a medium isn't limited to Hollywood level plots, while comics (in my opinion) have not reached the level of complexity as some literary works like Fictions by Borges or Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevsky, it has reached some interesting level of deconstructions of the genre and critiques to society or other aspects or life, first example that comes to mind is Watchmen.

If you disagree with anything I said, feel free to refute me, if we discuss it we can even achieve a better understanding

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forgot to mention, I also like the character design hahahaha. Yet I'm not trying to justify/hide it with the previous reasons. I like the design but I also like a lot the alice paradoxes and think that it was a bit of a wasted opportunity that the powers weren't developed as much

>I don't understand your argument, so I will now make up ones to debunk
>I will also raise Carroll's influence and inspiration to write for a girl, and then handily not mention that this girl was 10 years old.

Thank you for confirming that it is a pedo book for pedos.

I didn't mention the age because you already raised the point that Charles Dodgeson was a pedo, I don't support the inclination that he had in real life. But the book isn't permeated by his outlook on Alice Lidell, the book never sexualises Alice, rarely is she ever mentioned for her gender or anything like that. Alice could work the same if the protagonist was a boy or a man with a curious and naive mindset. Seems to me that you're just trying to feel better by talking shit on the internet.
Good luck, I hope you get better

Thank you for the concession on the pedo point. As a show of good faith, I will now better summarize my point.

>Point 1: Alice in Wonderland (which, as you rightly pointed out, wasn't meant to be published) is a written-down version of stories a pedo told to the child he was grooming.

The reason it wasn't meant to be published was because someone would ask "Dude, why are you taking pictures of this kid and writing lengthy poems about her?", like Liddell's dad eventually did.

Now, content and context are different. Does Dodgeson being a pedo make the book evil? No. It's contents are fairly benign because it's an innocent children's story, it has further merit in that it is full of math riddles and shit, like you pointed out. It has undeniable technical craft that elevates it above its status as an innocent children's story.

However, when you change the content, say, to a crime story with murderers, or a gothic horror story about insane people and trapped children - close allegories to characters in the book, you do so without changing the context. Now you're writing a horror story based on a pedo's pedo tools and putting the trappings of a children's story on it. It's childish and creepy in the same way making The Riddler into The Zodiac Killer was, because the context of that is a real thing where real harm was dealt to an innocent person, and the content no longer has the sheen of innocence.

>Point 2: It's overdone.

"Alice in Wonderland, but edgy horror/crime/gothic" is such a 2010 DeviantArt idea that I can't believe you're actually defending it.

Before I start, i want to show my apreciation for a better summarized point and a civil discourse.

>Alice in wonderland's themes shouldn't be used in a darker story because of the sexual inclinations of the author, as he caused damage to the children he had interactions with.
While as I said before Charles Dodgeson was a pedophile, there is no evidence that he abused any children in any way. Alice Lidell( the child that was Alice in the book and whom the book was dedicated to) had a good relationship with Charles even after she was an adult, when the son of Alice Lidell was asked about her relationship with Charles she always had a positive outlook on him (which wouldn't be possible in adulhood or old age if the person was abused, they would eventually acknowledge the harm that was done to them), all the other children who knew Charles say the same thing, he was extremely kind to them. You raised a point where you mention the photos he took. When I first discovered those things I was apalled as you were, but after investigating further I changed my mind a bit, first of all, it's important to consider the Cultural and mindset of the time aspect, During that period during the Victorian Era, children were seen as symbols of purity, that's why these kind of photos were not as uncommon as one may think, during those times it wasn't seen as sexualising a children, it would probably go more on an aspect of angelic purity (I don't share the sentiment but I can imagine the society of that time arriving at such conclusion on the theme of purity). Another point to mention, all the photos had the consent of the parents and the children who were photographed, sometimes the parents asked him to take the pictures, there are records on the cards of Alice Liddell's father where he mentions that he asked Charles Dodgeson at least one time to take a picture of her daughters.

>Point 2: It's overdone.
I wasn't aware before you mentioned it that Alice in Wonderland was an overused trope during the 2010's in devian art, I suspect that it can be attributed to the Tim Burton film. From what I've seen this wave of Alice in Wonderland touch only the most superficial aspects of the book. I think that the idea can be explored much further. Most times in Manga/comics/media in general the concept is reduced to just: references to characters in the books and the theme of general insanity that permeates Wonderland. These aspects are just the tip of the Iceberg, there is much more that we can take inspiration from and create new content.
If it's a problem of something being overdone, just take an example from Don Quixote, he was made when everyone made knight's stories and he subverts the genre, adds his own flavor and create new types of literature styles. I think that staleness is inherently bad, yet I don't think one has to shun a concept just because other people did it

Gotham ain't big enough for two Wonderland-rabbit themed villains

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Literally who. The only thing that i remember about her is being a disposable goon.
Does she even have a backstory?

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Twitter would consider her "problematic"

Twitter users would be seething and burning comic stores if she was released as this depiction.
Ahhh but if she was Indian/black as in her non tulpa version and the writer was a woman it would be "empowering"
The absolute state of the western civilization