Any books on how black america went from producing figures like Duke Ellington, Johnny Coltrane etc...

unironically based

I've heard enough trap music to understand that it is utter garbage and I've also got enough general knowledge to know that it is a) dominated by blacks and b) a direct descendant of rap, which is also an afrocentric genre

what is this chart supposed to even represent

>sixnine is jewish
dafuck? i dont believe that

Why is it garbage?
How do you think you have the authority to criticize that which you don't even have knowledge on? "yeah, beethoven is garbage. Classical sucks. No, I don't know any other classical musicians, why ask?"

>Duke Ellington, Johnny Coltrane
Just as degenerate as 6ix9ine and lil pump. You clearly know nothing about the personal lives of Jazz musicians, which were arguably more degenerate.

SAT scores.

The difference being that nobody celebrates Ellington or Coltrane (or Mingus or Davis or etc) for their lives, but for their music. And their music is good.

As opposed to the shit that passes as 'music' today but that is bought by millions.

Retarded.

Blacks make that because white people buy it.

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They don't ANYMORE. Are you really going to tell me Miles Davis did not completely submerge his sexual degeneracy into his music (not that this is a bad thing)? The promiscuity of jazz was a huge part of why it became popular.

Trap music is basically illiterate retards mumbling in autotune over a beat about how they are more violent, more sexually successful, and more rich than "you". It typifies ghetto culture with its stupidity, toxic masculinity, and consumerism. Even their beats are mostly random loops sampled from other songs with an 808 and drum loop superimposed over them. There is no originality, artistic merit, or creativity involved in it.
Jazz, on the other hand, is the only music that can rival classical.

>Davis did not completely submerge his sexual degeneracy into his music
I don't know how you submerge sexual degeneracy (or degeneracy of any kind, really) into lyric-less music that avoids much dissonance or atonality.

>Jazz music is basically illiterate retards blowing in trumpets offbeat about how they are less violent, more sexually successful, and more spiritual than "you". It typifies black culture with its promiscuity, toxic masculinity, and wankery. Even their beats are mostly random notes that sounds the same as every other jazz song with an offbeat drum loop superimposed over them. There is no originality, artistic merit, or creativity involved in it.
>Trap, on the other hand, is the only music that can rival classical pop.

that is because you are an idiot.

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Jazz is non-lyrical music, so your speculations are baseless. Trap "artists" tell you up front what their music is about.

You just proved that user's point. If Davis submerged his music in degeneracy you would have posted an excerpt from his sheet music and showed us exactly where the degeneracy occurs instead of posting a picture of the artist himself. You are once again attacking the artist instead of the music (as a libertine I see no wrong in Davis's sexual encounters in the first place, but that's irrelevant here).

>He looks with fascinated horror upon those who try to live something they aren’t.

>“They live their full lives on the fringe of jazz and yet miss its essence entirely. They take the neuroses that are integral in every art and blow them up to where they’re the whole thing. Do you remember the Platonic dialog in which Socrates argues the definition of wisdom with Hippocrates? As far as I’m concerned, Hippocrates was the first hippy, a guy who was smug because he thought he knew something. Socrates was wise because he realized how little he knew.”

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your just jealous you cant get laid and dont have millions in the bank

based evans poster youtube.com/watch?v=uco5FNbjqv0

>tfw tool/grateful dead/phish/counting crows master race
based counting crows is a true pleb barrier, my hippie friends recoil at the crisp pop sounds in contrast to their muddy jams. I didn't know sufjan stephens was the final redpill

>rap is way more retarded than Jazz
Only if you're listening to current year retardation like OP mentions, pick up some MF DOOM or even Joyner Lucas and you're golden.

>listening to anyone but kool keith
Never gonna make it

>kool keith
based, haven't heard him in years. sex style blew my mind the first time i heard it. same with the intro to the black elvis album

>Cheetos doritos and fritos

So this is the power of rap

Happy i dont have shit taste and think anything that a couple 20th century niggers drummed up could be good

This picture is an album cover, which is of course linked with the music. There is a reason why most early pornography had jazz as background music. There are also song titles that are very promiscuous, jazz culture in a whole is very promiscuous, and even the music itself (the frantic, offbeat style, or the smooth, and relaxed swing (See: "Harmonic tension, rhythmic tension, and even melodic tension, followed by release matches the feel of the moment, passion and unrest bent up inside a person before the ultimate and sudden exhale.")). Sex is all about this tension followed by release and the VERY WORD JAZZ once was a VERB synonymous with the act

But people who like jazz will happily deny and ignore all of this while they praise mingus for creating works that "encapsulate racism, slavery, and scoial justice". They will pick and choose. And you will do the same, because you do not want to draw conclusions you don't like, especially when Trap musicians are being criticized for doing THE EXACT SAME THING by the SAME PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO JAZZ. Fucking idiots.

Before he transformed into "Hef," the pajama-clad and priapic founder of Playboy, Hugh Hefner was a jazz crooner billed as "the boy with the bop in his voice." The nickname dates back to his undergraduate days at the University of Illinois, when the "Campus Ballad King" prophetically covered songs like "My Desire."

"Jazz was everywhere back then. I was born in 1926, and in the 1930s jazz was the predominant music of pop culture and romance," Hefner says, taking a phone call at "the mansion," his Gothic-Tudor Xanadu. He's hard of hearing in his right ear but otherwise sharp and willing to reminisce.

By the time Playboy started in the 1950s, rock & roll had become the predominant soundtrack of white youth. But from its inception, the magazine embraced the African-American art form then flourishing on the South Side of Chicago, where Hefner lived during the early years of the Eisenhower era. Playboy's first issue included an interview between Alex Haley and Miles Davis.

Now there is nothing wrong with this IN ITSELF, but criticizing rap music and it's surrounding culture for DOING THE EXACT SAME THING is UNREASON OF THE HIGHEST ORDER YA FAGGOT!

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Get off /lit you little cyst

And so do jazz musicians. You are just too retarded to see it in retrospect.

>businessinsider.com/former-music-exec-describes-the-scary-meeting-that-resulted-in-todays-violent-rap-music-2012-5
It was just business, kid.

>ignoring the literal Pulitzer winner
Joyner is based though, ngl.

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>jazz avoids dissonance

[Certain jazz musicians] avoid [much] dissonance.

I don't get why they gave him that Pulitzer prize for music.
The production on damn was shit, just like on all his other albums.
The only thing he has going for himself is his lyrics not being as brain dead dumb as his contemporaries, but even in this regard he is severely overrated.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH OH NO

>jazz
youtu.be/qXsuPkyFQuQ

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>ctrl+f "adorno"
>0 results
Yea Forums, why have you forsaken me?

>There is a reason why most early pornography had jazz as background music.
Jazz is laid back and relaxing; it is able to act as background music for a lot of things. Noir films, for example, use slow jazz (like that of Chet Baker) as background music but it does not follow from this that jazz is about crime. If you type "music for studying" into YouTube the top recommendations will be jazz, classical, and "jazzhop" which is basically jazz loops with hip-hop drums. So if the fact that pornography used jazz as background music means that jazz is all about sex, then the fact that jazz is used for studying must mean that jazz is about being intellectual.
>There are also song titles that are very promiscuous
'Green in blue', 'In a sentimental mood', 'my favourite things', 'equinox', 'I fall in love too easily', 'almost blue'.
These are the usual names for jazz songs. I wont deny that some jazz songs are romantic but there is no comparison between them and 'IM LIKE BITCH WHO IS YOUR MANS (AY) CANT KEEP MY DICK IN MY PANTS (AY)'
>Trap musicians are being criticized for doing THE EXACT SAME THING by the SAME PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO JAZZ
Nobody criticises trap musicians for making songs about sex. Trap musicians are criticised for making braindead, uncreative songs about sex where they use sex only as a tool to assert social dominance. I hate even calling them 'musicians' because they never play musical instruments and their beats are just rip-offs of other people's music. If you can't see the linguistic incompetence and utter stupidity of trap lyrics then you are retarded.
>Hugh Heffner sung jazz
Good one

Great post user

Back to Yea Forums dirty commie

>The production on damn was shit, just like on all his other albums.
>just like on all his other albums.
My disdain for this sentiment is so immense, I don’t have a reaction image that could possibly portray it, so I won’t attach one.

Also this entire thread is shit.

>Growing up, Thomas Chatterton Williams knew he loved three things in life: his parents, literature, and the intoxicating hip-hop culture that surrounded him. For years, he managed to juggle two disparate lifestyles, "keeping it real" in his friends' eyes and studying for the SATs under his father's strict tutelage-until it all threatened to spin out of control. Written with remarkable candor and emotional depth, Losing My Cool portrays the allure and danger of hip-hop culture with the authority of a true fan who's lived through it all, while demonstrating the saving grace of literature and the power of the bond between father and son.

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Disdain because you like those albums, or because you're flabbergasted that people here have actually listened to them? I find myself relating to the latter sentiment.

It sounds like a shitty book with a good message. Not a book fit for refined gentleman such as myself, but the kind of book that would be good to distribute among the niggers, in hope that it would raise their moral qualities to a higher plane.

Williams is a useful antidote to TaNehisi Coates.

I bet people call him an Uncle Tom, as well. Damn niggers don't know what's good for them.

This is the based and redpilled answer. I lived in New Zealand for a time, and the same policies have done exactly the same thing to the Maori there. Turns out when you disincentivize family formation via welfare the people become trapped in a cycle of poverty. Who knew.
Marriage is the best path for a people to be successful.

>tfw watching John Ford's How Green Was My Valley
>we will never had traditional families like back then, ever again

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Purely economic factors

>avoids much dissonance or atonality
nigga

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>doo bop
>on the corner

The two least successful and most hated Miles Davis albums, and where he wasn't trying to create good music so much as he was trying to 'capture the sounds of the street.'

I guess your point is that street music is shit. OK, sure.

Find a book on white flight, I guess.

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The rappers themselves don’t even make the beats.

Nah man, on the corner is great. It was hated when it came out but it's pretty much regarded as a masterpiece now. It's barely a jazz album though, I'll give you that.

Herbie Hancock's headhuhters is abother "degenerate" jazz classic, shit's basically porno music

>being an eager beaver people pleaser @school means you possess objectively patrician taste when it comes to the arts
Kill yourself

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Rap production has always been at best average, lmao

GKMC has great production, and TPAB has flawless production.

Not him, I see your point. The rock fans do the same thing with rock music. Pretending it is an ascetic musical genre, completely ignoring the Led Zepellins, AC/DCs, Elvis Presleys of sorts. That said I will keep on atacking trap/hip hop on a musical basis because of its shit structure and lack of mastery of its musicians. They sing like shit and they can't play to save their lives.
Finally we get to the lyrics. Well, the lyrics should be their reedeming factor since they lack any kind of musicianship. Unfortunately is a festival of buffons talking about how much money they make, how many girls they bang, how tough they are. Again, I'm not saying this didn't exist in e.g.: rock and roll but at least in that case we got to see some nice melodies and good chord progressions. While in rap, musically, there's just nothing to see.
NEXT!!!

It's the other way round, first Sly & the family stone, Herbie hancock and others pioneered the funk jazz genre, and only then adult film producers co-opted the music, since at that time adult films still had an avant garde, liberated-sexuality connotation, contrary to what it consists of today, which you justly describe as degenerate. It's a rral shame this kind or music is now stuck with the 'porno' label, which it really does not deserve. If you actually took a listen to the whole Head Hunters album, you were to discover a whole garden of musical microcosms, rich and full and more akin to scifi new world avantgarde than bad 90s pornos you might be thinking of.

Thoughts on You're Under Arrest?

Not him. I don't relate Head Hunters with porn music at all. I think that's because I'm younger and porn nowadays generally doesn't even have music to begin with.

>Toni Morrison
>Colson Whitehead
>Kamasi Washington
>Kendrick Lamar
>MF DOOM
>Busdriver
>Saul Williams
I don't see the problem.

I didn't mean "porno music" in a bad way; Headhunters is one of my favorites. The music definitely has a sexual energy to it though. I'm just saying that the whole dichotomy between "degenerate" modern black music and "classy" jazz is unfounded and dumb. I mean herbie did the soundtrack for blowup years before headhunters, a pretty radically (at the time) sexual film.

Agreed, what was considered degenerate at the height of jazz would be considered tame now. However, I do believe the hysteria was heighten based on jazz being a predominantly black movement, this opinion is not particularly well informed I must admit.

>Jazz is laid back and relaxing; it is able to act as background music for a lot of things.
That is because jazz has been lazily recontextualized into muzak just like classical (as trap will one day be). This is why people have forgotten the crazy roots of jazz.
>there is no comparison between them
It is all relative to the values of the times. And you and me both know that there are jazz songs with much more sexualized names than those you have just listed. As I've already mentioned, even the name "jazz" is another word for "fuck".
>Trap musicians are criticised for making braindead, uncreative songs
And for being sexually degenerate junkies, which shouldn't be a reason people are fighting against them, especially when they are fans of jazz.

>and for being sexually degenerate junkies
Only conservatives and christians give a shit about this. Everyone else hates trap because of its braindead lyrics and unoriginal beats.

Any books on how white America went from producing figures like Bob Dylan, Frank Zappa etc. to producing figures like Lil Peep and Post Malone?

yeah

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There are still bands like this. They are relegated to the "hippie" circle. Mike Dillon, Tukuaz, Vulfpeck and Primate Fiasco are all modern unique musicians.

Wasnt jazz hated too when it was a new thing? wasnt it viewe as degenerate?

As consolation for not giving it to him earlier for gkmc or tpab.

/thread

There is no question to resolve here.

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s/jazz/church/1

Fuck off Adorno you bourgeois prig.

>blowup
Thank you for that, listening to it right now, I did not know about this.
I do not agree with you on the asserted baselessness of the distinction between 'modern black music' and, 'classy' jazz, let's say we are talking about bebop onwards. Comparing just a few more or less objective parameters of the music, i.e. harmonic sophistication, polyrhythmic complexity, and melodic richness, should settle any doubts about the obvious, gaping difference in essence and quality to today's 'black music'. Granted to you, stellar artists do exist, cf. , but the discoverial spirit of most of those people seems to be limited to creating ever-new quips and bits of sound, mere sonic frippery clumsily pasted together within half an hour on Flying Lotus' Macbook, to get an example. Compare that to Coltrane's recording 'My favorite things', in which Coltrane and his group investigate every nook and cranny of a relatively simple melody. Think of a bone cooked in soup and completely dissolving, every nutriential idea being absorbed. Compare to today. Cry.
As to the reason, can it be a mere shift of economic affordability into destituency having gone through all social strata through the late 20th and early 21st century, affecting not just, but to a special degree blacks? Or are there other forces responsible for the cultural shift? Opinions are welcome.

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you need to go back

Did nobody listen to this? Its so fucking good

>6ix9ine and Lil Pump
These people are mexican though?

why do japanese people like jazz so much?
are they honourary blacks?

You need to get laid buddy.

Lil Pump's parents are Colombian, not Mexican.

Black fatherlessness encouraged by the welfare state.

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Lil Pump is Colombian, SixNine is Puerto Rican/Mexican. Both are American, though.

i would love to see the white IQ be split to jewish and non-jewsih

Hispanic is not a race.

isn't this chart like amount of different words used in all of their lyrics or some stupid shit like that?

>young faggot is better than Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Sidney Bechet, etc
Commit suicide.

what am I looking at here?

>no mention of mingus
roflmao @ you

Jazz makes me happy. Leave jazz alone

>no mingus

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Alright I'm listening to Sufjan Stevens' first album now. The flutes or whatever are pretty interesting, I can dig it. I'll keep going.