Why are most people seemingly incapable of realising that Plato's Republic is actually a highly self-aware work and...

Why are most people seemingly incapable of realising that Plato's Republic is actually a highly self-aware work and isn't actually endorsing what it's endorsing?

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>i was just joking guys, i was totally not advocating for authoritarian tyranny with healthy amount of brainwashing to keep proles content

>isn't actually endorsing what it's endorsing
nigga the fuck does that mean

>Plato was just being post-ironic this whole time.
what a millennial

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Without reading it in the Greek, how can you be sure? You could pick up enough to get through an annotated version in like a year, two at most.

You have to remember that Plato saw everything as being a product of a realm of forms, and that if it exists in reality, it is essentially valid and a reflection of its perfect form from that realm.

So slavery, death for apostasy, military service, etc just had to be proved to not embody the characteristics that were the opposite and contradictory for them to be a tangible form.

Remember, Socrates never tried to argue against the system that put him to death, and I think Plato was not as bold as a revolutionary would have to be in regards to politics today.

He clearly wanted those societal norms to come from a logically consistent place, with a system were reason will out. We cannot act as if ideology of the individualist liberals weren't a gradual process that stood on the shoulders of giants, like Plato, but instead a logical thought process that should have come to Plato himself completely out of context.

It does not work that way.

It means that there are various levels of reading comprehension.
Reader Level 1 reads the republic and says "oh wow that's pretty hindu-fascist"
Reader Level 2 notices that at the start they just ask Socrates What would be the best kind of government and he just says "any as long as people line by reason and by virtue" But his interlocutors aren't satisfied because how can you guarantee that? So Socrates starts describing a "perfect city" in which you get everything you get from reason and virtue at the personal level through imposition by an élite.
It's meant to be funny.
Level 3 reader remembers that This was written and is set in the period of time in which Sparta ruled over Athens after victory in the peloponnesian war. Spartans did that same exchange ages ago and imposed virtue in the population through martial endeavour and outright dystopic means. He's fucking parodying the Spartans.
Level 4 readers won't tell you What he got from Plato's republic except through various symbolic allusions. They are speaking in the fish market. The eyes of crows are upon them. You know what I mean.

The Republic is a metaphor for the Self in its most particular aspect, Man.

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been rereading it recently, I'm starting a commune inspired by the polis system,and there are not many good books on city planning so why not.
I agree it is tounge and cheek just the way he tells us we must perfectly curtail speech and religion to influence children so they can grow to be model citzens, no it must be a joke because noone would ever do that surely.

The Republic is as esoteric book that lays out Plato's definitions of the ideal functioning of the human soul, represented by the ideal functioning of the human state

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>A city being built on a high mountain and fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden.

EHR MAH GERD PURRDIPURR

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its just a thought experiment about justice, holy fuck calm down

>pewdiepie

this place is really going down the drain huh

The Republic is the best because that would mean I was in charge for real :)

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See also Vargtimmen as a metaphor for the Self in "love", the demonic island as the isolation and mockery of Mereological interaction wherein the child gets murdered and the man gets consumed.

>What measures, then, shall we adopt? What machine employ, or what reason consult by means of which we may contemplate this ineffable beauty; a beauty abiding in the most divine sanctuary without ever proceeding from its sacred retreats lest it should be beheld by the profane and vulgar eye? We must enter deep into ourselves, and, leaving behind the objects of corporeal sight, no longer look back after any of the accustomed spectacles of sense. For, it is necessary that whoever beholds this beauty, should withdraw his view from the fairest corporeal forms; and, convinced that these are nothing more than images, vestiges and shadows of beauty, should eagerly soar to the fair original from which they are derived. For he who rushes to these lower beauties, as if grasping realities, when they are only like beautiful images appearing in water, will, doubtless, like him in the fable, by stretching after the shadow, sink into the lake and disappear. For, by thus embracing and adhering to corporeal forms, he is precipitated, not so much in his body as in his soul, into profound and horrid darkness; and thus blind, like those in the infernal regions, converses only with phantoms, deprived of the perception of what is real and true.

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Perfect picture, God I wish millennials could see themselves

That's Machiavelli. Plato was exactly as pure and humorless a theocrat as he seems to be.

>he doesn't know that plato thought nothing worthwhile should be written down

Machiavelli makes it pretty clear at the start of the Prince that he doesn't care for principalities, does he not? Maybe I'm misremembering, the only thing I really remember is how he jerked off Borgia straight into his mouth for like 3 chapters.

Level 1 reader.

(((nice post)))

machiavelli's work is historical. he just takes a morally neutral position of those who attempt to gain and retain power. which isn't inherently evil.

Whether or not he, at any point, states his taste in statecraft straight, the mere act of raking up the muck of how a principality really operates, is on its own a brave and masterful stroke of irony that no one had made before. It would stand on its own, for what it is, and it transformed our ideas about what politics is, as a public activity that is hostile to secrecy. He wanted the reader to know. Plato wanted the reader to believe.

(((Thank you)))

Leveller of all to his level

Which is higher than yours so untill someone higher than me gets here You should thank me.

Wit can't contradict itself and be that.

>and isn't actually endorsing what it's endorsing
>haha I was only pretending to be retarded

Where did i contradict myself.

retard take desu

I enjoyed this meme my man, reminds me of the past. Perhaps 2011, I do not remember exactly.

>I don't like the idea that people smarter than me should rule over me
>it is therefore post-ironic humor
Wow, pretty interesting

it's nice that you two give each other hugs