>Inb4 that C.S. Lewis quotes Both of these perspectives are correct, and neither inherently contradicts the other. Fear of the Inner Child is an obelisk built by inadequacy, and Lewis is right to note that enjoyment of the 'childish,' when broadly considered, is a healthy component of functional adulthood; he is also correct in pointing out that to categorize the 'adult' as equivalent to 'artistically meritorious' is insecure. Moore doesn't criticize this perspective, I think, but instead criticizes the delusion of men who consume such content unthinkingly and without speculation as to their enjoyment, and of content which does not seek to provoke that speculation. When Lewis talks about fairy tales, he is speaking of them through a critical lens -- medieval romance, such as Sir Gawain, might be an example he'd use of 'childish things,' or, perhaps sections of popular poetry; traditional Christian or Grimm or Parrault stories that capture and prod ceaselessly at the imagination. These narratives, like any good work of fiction, begged analysis, and were part of storied academic tradition. They were also unequivocally children's tales. Lewis was not thinking of gross pulp so utterly devoid of artistic merit that it creates mass audiences of the unaware. Name anything culturally valuable or provocative perpetuated in capeshit. You can't. It is media not only designed to be enjoyed by children, but designed to dis-provoke engagement beyond getting your ass in a seat another fucking bag of greasy popcorn between your pudgy fucking fingers. Lewis would have rightly spit on it as well.
This. I fucking hate Morrison for doing that. I thought non-binary people were smart.
Noah Nguyen
The knights grail arent actually childrens tales. Especially when they go into graphic detail about brains being splattered, regarding their surface level reading. Theyre actually near religious texts that contain a bunch of things thats near impossible to understand without intelligent understanding of esoteric idea and philosophy.
Such of which the Knights Templar where accused of worshipping Satan and burned at the stake alive.
But yes comics are achetypical childrens tales, and require a moral lesson to be adult. When that is omitted youre just handing out media for manchildren that actually has no lesson and ironically more immature than its original conception. Such as many new movies that try to reduce comics into uncreative nonsense showing "realism".
The tales of achetypical characters like Gilgamesh are much more powerful when he fails to become a god despite fighting gods/archetypical beings. Gilgamesh selling meth to become a meth dealer and get his family safe doesnt strike you anywhere near as powerful. Sorry.
Tyler Roberts
People were meming Superheroes and Star Wars as modern American myth years before Morrison.
John Lee
It was marketing.
It's sickening that are real modern myths and american culture was gutted and replaced with cheap ip bullshit and jingoism from multinational corporations.
Julian Diaz
>Gilgameth
Ayden Nelson
Morrison didn’t help the decay and only contributes to it.
Gavin Ortiz
This!!! Why aren’t more people angry over this?
Charles Harris
Those were stories created long before corporations milked them to death. Myth and such ideas exist in human subconscious at all times. This is what Hollywood and others try to reel you in on subconsciously. Its corporations that need these ideas to reel you in, not the other way around.
When you dont have the restriction of realism or "adulting" it's easier to create these archetypical ideas from the human mind without restriction. That's why these characters or ideas continue to endure even when they try to bastardize them.
Joseph Evans
Louder for the manchildren in back.
Luke Price
LMAO
Dylan Davis
Star Wars had a whole ass Smithsonian exhibition trying to legitimize it.
Nathaniel Cook
Because it doesn't matter.
Jeremiah Brown
American culture has always been full of made-up bullshit trying to sell you something. Tall Tales being concocted by the timber, steel, rail and ranching industries to sell their crap, con artists making up wacky animals to sell hodgepodge taxidermy and freak show tickets, the entire spiritualism movement basically being an elaborate marketing campaign for trick photography. The list goes on and on.
Wyatt Carter
It should be burned to the fucking ground. We need to stop manchildren from hurting us.
Daniel Gray
They don't know any better. What they used to believe in and basic interraction with each other is stripped from them and replaced with corporatism and sick government/oligarch think tank media manipulation.
Myths existed and humankind needs them. That's as far as the comparison goes. We are talking about stripping away the organic basic NEED of them and how they spring forth naturally and replacing them with bog standard synthetic business backed bullshit.
Stripping us of the divine to enslave us with the promise of returning their own false empty version if we sell our lives to them.
Lucas believes his own hype and desperately tries to live up to what he's shilled and what people believe in. That was his undoing.
Juan Nelson
These threads are embarrassing. >but Alan Moore said- Alan Moore got cucked by his own wife. Who cares what he says?
OP and his secondary accounts care because they can't think for themselves
Zachary Perez
You're saying you have even worse taste than a pulp shit enjoyer? Explains a lot, OP.
Isaac Rogers
Somebody post Moore shitting on Howard out of pure jealously.
Elijah Powell
>They don't know any better. What they used to believe in and basic interraction with each other is stripped from them and replaced with corporatism and sick government/oligarch think tank media manipulation. This! Look at what the 2000s did to us; turned into retards. We need to save people
Dylan Perez
Imagine still needing any kind of divinity in current year.
Nathan Ross
Thanks for explaining why.
Grayson Thompson
Myth has always been a cope to explain the unexplainable exploited by the elite.
Yes exactly. All of our religions are filled with this kind of bullshit Many of our legends are started with less then virtuous reasons in mind. They grow change and persist if their memetic(and I hate the term but it's apt)bones are strong they fulfil as societal and personal need and become something great that can change society for the better.
But now we have nothing but lies and the constant denigration of the things that all people race class creed religion bedamned hold dear so they can replace it with narrative friendly manipulative money making garbage.
The ransacking of humanities shared treasure of stories and truths by which we communicate and grow as is constant and horrifying.
Jeremiah Carter
You're overthinking things dude.
Easton Miller
Alan Moore is a fan of Steven Universe.
Grayson Rodriguez
t.house nigger slaves of the rich oligarchs
Divinity is the natural state of humanity Spirituality is innate to us all.
Myth is how we teach and grow. So much of what you think you know about everything is a myth that's kept afloat by wealthy and or evil people to manipulate you and keep you in line.
Until you sit down and logically dissect those myths you are just walking through life wearing an invisible chain that's being pulled by people who are beyond your reach.
Charles Lopez
No it doesn't faggot.
Benjamin Gray
Yes. Just consume.
Gavin Watson
Get over yourself.
Nathan Gray
Millennia old capeshit is still capeshit
David Foster
This coming from the nigger who licks Rebecca Sugar's taint at the slightest opportunity?
Zachary Gray
Star Wars was written intelligently, and it actually does infact contain myth and such in it's story which is why it is beloved and why George Lucas was successful.
You can even say Lucas was a hack because he didnt come up with any idea of his own, just took old concepts told for centuries and packaged them in sci-fi and toys.
George Lucas himself stated it in interviews he's taken ideas from myth and archetypical stories. That is his success, thats why when you analyze his actual writing, and not his general ideas, its a bit wonky and criticized. When George Lucas tried to give you a more complex story involving backhanded politics it got criticized by everyone for being "boring", everyone being the average movie goer. At the same time he angered manchildren by introducing JarJar, a clearly childish character meant to entertain kids, which they didnt like because they think Star Wars is serious.
The harm isnt in the idea, or even the toys. The harm comes in not realizing this is also meant to entertain children, which doesnt make it any less deep, but you're not living in reality when you're not realizing that.
Anakin is the archetypical story of light descending into darkness. And the Jedi counsel is actually akin to the knights round table of 12. Lucas was actually well read, but it doesnt mean he also wasnt out to make fun films and entertain kids.
Imagine still thinking you need a sky god OR superheroes to help you grow as a person.
Matthew Rodriguez
oh so Industryfag switched from cartoons to comics then? makes sense for how faggy op is
Carson Clark
>Myths existed and humankind needs them. That's as far as the comparison goes. We are talking about stripping away the organic basic NEED of them and how they spring forth naturally and replacing them with bog standard synthetic business backed bullshit.
That was never always the case. Watch any old Superman movie. Watch any 90s or Schumachers Batman movies. Read any old comic up to the 90s or so.
I dont defend corporatism. I refuse to wear any corporate logos. I dont think these characters are the greatest thing ever. But they are good, they can be used for good. They certainly did for me growing up. Theyre not my everything now a days, but I still enjoy them.
The evil comes when the writers agree to water them down and bastardize them. So society actually producing the bad product, corporations giving orders but someone actually has to do the work and someone has to consume it. So its still peoples choices.
So in that sense they are universal, if there is corruption its because of other things at play. And it doesnt always fair well, look at whats happened with Disneys backlash.
A IP wont be the best media, but it stills serves a purpose for kids. Whether you heard a story by tale in the old days or TV, its still a story meant to convey ideas. Superheroes have taught me the goodness of having a healthy fit body, having clear orders/thinking, etc. Much like old stories of the Greek Pantheon inspired people ages ago. These are ideals.
Corporate IPs that do a piss poor job of mimicing those old myths and are just people in silly costumes playing pretend are not in any way comparrable.
It's ridiculous.
Imagine being a spiritual slave of the corporates while claiming that merely stating the simple easily verifiable fact that every single society to ever exist, exists, or will exist has some form of organized spiritual ideals. Your reaction is the equivalent of saying "BURN INFIDEL" or "YOUR GOING TO HELL FOR YOUR BLASPHEMY" or "OY VEY THINK OF THE 6 MILLION"
Colton Martin
>Imagine still thinking you need a sky god OR superheroes to help you grow as a person.
You don't. But having the imagery or order is much better than lets say, having shit smeired all over the walls, statues of dicks, and decay and filth.
The fact that someone may have an ideal image of something, indicates that they have that in them ( the qualities of order, beauty, goodness, etc) and they're more opt to create something representing that or decorate their places. So the imagery comes from within, and creates a product from without in those self aware. Showing little more than what is inside the person.
And likewise a rotten person will display the opposite. Originally religion was not meant to be idolatry, but intellectual truth/ideas often symbolized.
You understand why what you said is wrong in your own post. That IP is constantly under attack by people who would use it to turn those people to a way of thinking that is harmful or hurt those who consume it. It's a dangerous poison and can only serve as a tool for good if THE PEOPEL WHO CREATE IT ARE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT ITS IMPACT THEN SALES
Look at the current superman movies. Those people are fundamentally incapable of understanding the people who like the character or simply don't want to and just want to make money. They'll sell superman as a baby raping mass murderer and spiderman as kidnapper who wears the victims like skin if that will get them two more nickels.
Comics can not be that modern myth becuse at it's very core it is about making money and the people who want to make money and are in charge of and even write them most times are amoral sociopaths
Xavier Hughes
>Imagine being a spiritual slave of the corporates I literally put the superheroes in the same category as spiritualism. Get over yourself. Going a little overboard just to say you don't like capeshit. You're not any more moral or creative just because you replace superheroes with something else.
Christian Jones
>Those people are fundamentally incapable of understanding the people who like the character or simply don't want to and just want to make money. They course corrected Snyder's vision precisely because it wasn't making them money in addition to the backlash.
Nolan Carter
Just like megachurch pastors trying to push prosperity gospel about how Jesus wants them to blow the collection plate money on a private jet instead of actually helping people.
Dominic Davis
>I literally put the superheroes in the same category as spiritualism. ... And this is the problem A society stripped of even talking about spirituality has it used against them by monsters to make them into slaves of ideals they'll never question.
Spirituality isn't organized because of muh stupid savages who don't know that there ain't no gods hurr durr. It's organized because every single society to every exist fully understood it's fucking power and place in human life.
You people are lost.
Jackson Clark
>It's organized because every single society to every exist fully understood it's fucking power and place in human life. Like doing jihads and crusades on filthy nonbelievers.
Jonathan Robinson
EXACTLY!! Not being willing to discuss spirituality and looking at it in a serious way allows for monsters like that to take hold.
Jacob Russell
We go to war over money and resources and simply insulting people Want us to burn down the banks, the forests and censor all thought as well?
Luke Ramirez
>Turning an Alan Moore bait thread into a serious theological debate between fucking randos, with no relation to comics or cartoons. What is wrong with this board?
1.I hate Rebecca Sugar 2.I met her at a con, I sweet talked her into a hotel room. I HATEFUCKED HER while her hubby watched and played the ukulele...badly. The bitch is total submissive cockslut and gets off on choking.
William Gutierrez
>b-but other people do it so why is okay when we do it?
Logan Ramirez
Even the image of Satan can be used for good. Representing mind/will. Since mind is used to navigate the world and understand it, it reveals truth.
Hence why Satan is actually the good guy in Old Testament. As he's deduced that there's more to physical life than matter. Hence wise the serpent was very wise. And also associated with evil because the mind is associated with only a tool for physical reality, not the world of idea or morals. So in using his tool of mind he's risen above matter.
But even when understood in archetypical thought and intelligence, he is good. And this romanticizes him, an idea represented in character.
One can even see parallels to someone like Batman, who works purely on mind and represents darker things. Again, symbols ring harder when more abstract. Like a guy with batears or a dude with wings.
The human mind will subconsciously do this, and it can only do so in freely creative environments.
Money and resources are tangible items that can actually be used. It's defensible but it is understandable. Same cannot be said for killing people over not following an instruction manual.
Sebastian Peterson
>Going a little overboard just to say you don't like capeshit. You're not any more moral or creative just because you replace superheroes with something else.
Nah youre just misreading. Never said I dont like capeshit. Ive completely said the opposite in all my posts.
Wyatt Allen
If people are still responding, did it really backfire?
Chase Watson
My apologies then.
Cameron Robinson
Yeah dude, I never said I enjoy reading any modern IP. Superman really being fucked (literally by dudes in this case) has really turned me off. Not just that, but everything else being reduced to common human degeneracy.
Nu52 was the beginning. I stopped reading Marvel in my teenage years so I never really cared. Before Nu52 people complained DC characters were boring, just because they had traditional heroes.
Blake Barnes
No you fucking imbecile. Spirituality exists in spite of religion not because of it.
We understand the iconography of satan Why use that character with so much negative social destructive baggage rather then simply worshipping the ideals or one of the non-fallen angels? You can easily make anythign sound like anything if you were a good enough wordsmith. Like you are demonstrating. But it truly does come down to truth and what we all already know of something.
If an ideal can't fly on it's own and instead depends on corruption of something basic and simple then it's poison and should be spat out.
Juan Myers
>It's a dangerous poison and can only serve as a tool for good if THE PEOPEL WHO CREATE IT ARE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT ITS IMPACT THEN SALES How about just making a good story at the end of the day?
Carter Brooks
>Same cannot be said for killing people over not following an instruction manual.
Money is conceptual Resources that are actually needed are very very few. The insults and censorship you ignored because you're a piece of shit with an agenda to push.
Spirituality exists with or without whatever religion you choose to follow or denigrate. It will always be.
The attempt to strip this from us is obvious and it's being done to replace it with something that makes us easier to control or something that will lead to our destruction. There is no such thing as a non spiritual atheist. An atheist who does not believe in nothing. It's a myth.
James Rivera
>But yes comics are achetypical childrens tales, and require a moral lesson to be adult. When that is omitted youre just handing out media for manchildren that actually has no lesson and ironically more immature than its original conception. Such as many new movies that try to reduce comics into uncreative nonsense showing "realism".
This is the real issue here. Superheroes as a genre are supposed to be an exploration of morality and people. When this is removed or just not considered it becomes flash flash bang bang punch punch, which was never the point of the genre.
The action and powers are what get you in the door, the character drama moves the plot along, and the core of it all is the moral struggle and relationships between the characters be it between superheroes, between heroes and villains, villains and the world, heroes and the world, heroes and their supporting cast, etc.
I know this opinion will set off some midwit brainflames but the Russo Bros MCU movies understood the genre well in my opinion. Whedon's heroes constantly whinged about how what they were doing wasn't what normal people do and how everyone is on a path to darkness.
Russos' heroes felt more like characters, and their morality showed in their actions. In Infinity War all the heroes rush to fight Thanos and his minions when they show up because they're heroes and want to protect people and it moves the characters and plot along. If Whedon did IW the heroes would wring their hands until they knew Thanos wanted the stones and then they'd collect all the characters.
Eli Powell
>Bragging about fucking some goblin mutt dyke Woah...so this is the power of the Moorefag...
