Would anyone here be interested in an intellectual and sfw discussion of mind control as a trope and plot element in co...

Magical, sometimes with a corruption aspect. But that’s only because I like the cool designs and powers that come with it
Generator Rex and Ben 10 ruined me
But despite this, I still really like it when there’s a realistic aspect to the magic as well. Like commands having to be repeated and reinforced

Nice

>Like it’s a contract and the characters have to find out what violation makes it null and void
There was a scene in Jessica Jones where she stops Patsy from shooting herself by making her swallow a bullet.

It started because cartoon makers couldn't really have violence in their shows due to repressive S&P, so they needed a nonviolent peril. That's why it happened so much in Superfriends.

It's fallen to the wayside a bit now that characters can actually die, but it still pops up in occasionally interesting ways.

mind control appears so often because the industry is obsessed with it.
They wish they could control minds, and in some ways the practically do, but even that is not enough, the crave absolute power over you.

But then why is it always bad guys who use it?

The industry fears anyone except for them controlling minds

Are aphrodisiacs mind control?

Normally when I see mind control it takes the form of puppetry, where the controlled person acts without any independent thought, like they are hypnotized, a mindless tool, usually taking the form of a killing machine. This is, in my opinion, the most boring form of this trope. I much prefer the other form, where the controlled is independent but experiences a forced value change which drastically alters their behaviour.
For instance, mind control via love potion. In this scenario the victim can be reasoned with, only their former value system has been now completely centered around loving someone they normally wouldn't, and even their internal measure of values has been broken, so that love is now a more important value than any other.
However, my favourite form of mind control is shown in the zombie episode of The Batman. Batman maintains his value system and independence, but his perception of the world has been altered so that everything he is doing is the opposite of what he should be, and so, though free, he has become the instrument of someone else's will. I think this is the most entertaining form of mind control because you don't have to drastically alter the character, and you can better understand the perspective of the controlled. Also, at least as shown in this episode of the Batman, it has the best end-mechanism. To free himself Batman must give up.

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The Indigo tribe is oddly not talked about despite it being one of the few "accepted" "good" use of Mind control

I think I remember image related(?) being an "advanced" take on the plot device by having fighting the mind control actually be doing its bidding... which falls apart when you analyse the scene but the cartoon it was in was bad and ugly so who cares.
Sadly I don't think anyone actually handles the perspective of the recipient under mind control without making it extremely jarring, so we never get characters having to become astute, cynical or paranoid unlike "Stuck in the holodeck" plots like when the Mad Hatter gave Batman his perfect life in Perchance to Dream... not that it'd ever be written in a fun way.
And you should be scared of that. Though I don't think cartoons touch that shit. (Fuck Yea Forums stuff like James Bond that does though)
>Rather than deal with an open mind, we prefer to stigmatise and condition people into conforming.
Probably because having an open mind is impossible as ironically it involves closing your mind off and often associates with apathy.
>mind control appears so often because the industry is obsessed with it.
Not the same industry. Other ones with immediate payment transactions (gambling, online gambling, video games) do have good reason to foster unhealthy relationships and hire psychologists. Cartoons and comic books on the other hand are written by artists who care more about their story than the audience.
>This is, in my opinion, the most boring form of this trope.
I agree.
>Batman maintains his value system and independence, but his perception of the world has been altered
That is also my favourite way of doing it to major characters.

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That actually brings up a question. What counts as a good use of mind control. Personally I’ve been trying to write a character who uses this power for good and so far I’ve found it’s best to have her restrict herself via the Hippocratic oath

mk ultra exists and they didnt stop.

Hypnotism isn't really believable. Just old hoaky myths.

How would a character be affected by being one of the few morally good people with mind control in a world where most telepaths are horrible people
I’d imagine pretty depressed

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Well, depends on how strong the mind control is. Even then the best I can imagine is the hero being a Hard Anti Hero.

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>Hippocratic
"Hypno"cratic Oath?

The way I’m doing it is pretty strong but easily undone and limited by low confidence
It’s primary uses are undoing other mind control, knockouts, interrogations, forced surrender, body numbness for medical treatment, enforcing peaceful interactions, and crowd control

they would be dead.

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The best way I can imagine a heroic mind controller is someone who has VERY strict limits to their usage.

1. Limit its use to their own team only. Taking control of an enemy combatant and forcing them to surrender, while practical, is wildly unethical.
2. Require consent before initating ("Permission to assume command!")

3. Something the erotic hypnosis community stresses is a "trance contract." "This is what I'm going to do when you're on trance, I will not go further than this." I can imagine a heroic mind controller doing something similar. "I'm going to coordinate our attacks/neutralize the fear toxin." Their teammates can have a list of hard limits that the controller does NOT cross, hashed out beforehand.

They key to all of it is consent. The controller respects boundaries and strictly confines their powers to stated purposes.

You could even have her be a bit of a stick in the mud and refuse to use her powers outside of battle, period. Turning into any animal is a fun party trick, violating someone's free will isn't.

>You could even have her be a bit of a stick in the mud and refuse to use her powers outside of battle, period. Turning into any animal is a fun party trick, violating someone's free will isn't.
The funny thing is that she actually is a total stick in the mud who does behave like that. To her little is more important than the rules and taking complete responsibility for everyone under her control. The only exceptions to her consent rule are the ones stated here though numbness is consensual. The only reason why she doesn’t ask consent for those is because the people around her as usually… violent psychopaths

The thing is, those exceptions woukd have a way of piling up.

Why shouldn't she force the bad guy to surrender? Why stop there? Why not make them a model citizen? Why not just snip out the bad memories that drive them to commit crime?

Without consent, it's too easy to go down the road of seeing others as meat puppets that she alone can see the strings of.

That’s true, but that’s also where some other things come in. She’s generally someone who’s very much a safety obsessed coward and not someone who enjoys using her powers often. But this is where the Hippocratic oath fits in. Do no harm. Forcing a surrender, controlling a crowd, bad temporarily incapacitating an enemy are all ways to subdue people without causing harm. But fundamentally changing an identity is a form of harm
Basically, powers are for rescue and healing only

>What counts as a good use of mind control.
>Personally I’ve been trying to write a character who
Narrative, world, setting, theme, character.
You can make anything look good through those, and it helps if the world isn't too heavy. Just don't ask ethical questions every other page in your fictional world, or perhaps never ask if it's right to do something unless it's your character challenging a third party's ethics.

If you mean with respect to "absolute" morality or real world morality, you're going to struggle to create an engaging story around that as asking a gunman for consent first is retarded.

I'm not 100% sure where this should be but I'm not sure it should be on this board.

I mean it's probably ok here.

For the most part I see the use of mind-control in Yea Forums media as a way to demean heroes in some ways by making them "weak" to make "weak" heroes important or a way of showing the protagonists are better than the "average people."

What I'd like to see is a subversion of the trope with the heroes getting completely mind-controlled and some flawed idiot like Bullock or Jay Jay Jameson helping the heroes break their mind-control, but since it's such a shorthand for showing Superior attitude of the protagonist it's unlikely to happen.

I vaguely remember JLA and Superman the animated series liked to play with this idea but only because it was a way to make Superman on our level by giving him flaws.

>What I'd like to see is a subversion of the trope with the heroes getting completely mind-controlled and some flawed idiot
So subverting a demeaning trope with a demeaning trope?
You run the risk of making readers/watchers bored if you make their protagonist shit the bed.

Look you can only have coffee and doughnuts every morning so many mornings to wake you up. Sometimes you need to wake up to shit in the bed to actually wake you up.

Antidepressants are soft lobotomy and you probably take them everyday.

They aren't mate.
Lobotomies fuck you up and permanently. Chems just mess with you.

This is exactly why a lot of mind control villains are more moral than YJ Miss Martian and some X-Men
The villains just controlled people and played dress up with them. The “heroes” actually lobotomized people

It'd be pretty funny if a mind reader or mind controller, but it didn't shut down their power just their conative ability to use said power to take advantage of people long term.

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Indeed

I feel like some of this should depend on how the person is being mind controlled.

If they're sort of body jacked, they are still aware but just no longer have control over their body, I can see that being more acceptable than one where either the person's mind is put to sleep/unconscious to allow the other to take control, or if they're under a total illusion, the person's mind is effectively in a psychic simulation while their body is under the other person's control, or if the mind controller has actually completely written over, which is effective identity death then since it's now a different character effectively.

>You will rethink the choices you've made in life

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>What counts as a good use of mind control.

Going to depend on your particulars of philosophy or how practically/utilitarian you see things.

Not to the level of mind control but mind reading, but used by the government to detect terrorists, but that'll quickly become a two edged sword, since they obviously would start using it domestically too. Violating the most private of privacies to save lives in theory, but easily would be turned just to keep people in line.

I think a good character using this would at least acknowledge and seriously consider the moral and ethical implications before acting, and at least being understandable to people with what action they take, especially if the action is taken to do something considered traditionally heroic anyway if they'd punched or kicked them into it, saving lives, getting people to safety via temp mind control.

it is very telling "sfw discussion" had to be part of the op for this

What do you expect from this site

There is no mind control. There is no such trope and plot element in co media

I HATED it in How to train yer dragon.

Nah, man. Just nah. You're kind of weird and creepy.

mind control when done on women is based and redpilled imagine korra and asami sucking a white man's dick while their minds are steadily being corrected.

Welcome to Yea Forums: dozens of boards colonized by shitposters. Once it was united under moot, but for the last seven years it has been consumed by savage flamewars. Until a new faggot appeared: a mysterious homosexual known as "OP". Braindead and obtuse, he spammed every worn out topic at once, but he made one big mistake: he posted MY OWN FETISH.

Please restrain yourself sir. This is an academic discussion of philosophical tropes and thematic elements
If you wish to discuss the more sexually appealing parts of hypnosis within storytelling that is perfectly fine, but please keep it within an academic context detailing the roots of the attraction as well as potentially interesting ways it can be used while still retaining those sexually appealing characteristics
Remember, we are not animals, we are refined intellectuals

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Not sure if that’s a good idea

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how does the mind control fall apart in that? i thought it was pretty cool.

Asami should be the one mind-controlling Korra

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Yeah, definitely. Although it would be pretty interesting for other heroes to deal with. Say that something like pic related happens. The Anti hero completely kills the identity of a psychopath and replaces them with a basic, selfless version of themselves. Would they try and bring back the old personality? Would it count condemning the new personality with the crimes of the original?

That’s a good point. How does one deal with a new identity? And can mind wipes be considered similar to the death penalty?

That’s why I see the actual mind controller themselves isn’t as interesting as how they effect other heroes around them. Most of them would begrudgingly go with it most of the time. Although I can see more of the Boy Scout heros having serious problems with it.

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That is true, but personally this is why I like the concept of a moral controller who doesn’t want to use their powers
The team probably pressures them into using their powers, and then acts like they’re the evil one whenever something goes wrong
I think it would be very interesting to show someone who’s used to being pressured into being a tool while also frequently berated for doing the very thing they’re forced to do