Christianity thread: Mystic edition

The should should go back to it's routes of btfoing degenerate faggots and mudshits
Until then I'm staying well away. The Sedvencantists or whatever seem pretty redpilled though, hopefully they win

As fundamental as mysticism is, I would be wary of jumping headlong into it. Mysticism is a gift from God, and if you go out in search of it, it might not be God that answers your search. Plus half that list is wierdo esoterica, which violates the principle of equality at the core of Christainity, that, as Heraclitus said, "the logos is common to all".

The Cloud of Unknowing, the Desert Fathers, Teresa of Avila, Pseudo-Dionysus, Bernard McGinn and Thomas a Kempis are all totally orthodox, and Meister Eckhart is too, although that book is some new-agey treatment of him, which I would be wary of. The rest of the stuff in that list is basically gnosticism, which is dangerous and frankly pseudo-profundity. In the words of Church historian Horton Davies:

>We may note that Gnostic eclecticisms have the following features in common. Their religion appeals to the proud rather than the humble in heart, for it claims to sum up the best in other religions and thus castigates adherents of the older faiths. Its appeal is largely to intellectuals and initiates and not to the great under-privileged multitudes of the world. Their philosophy is almost always pantheistic and shares the characteristic weaknesses of that outlook; for example, it despises the body which for the Christian is the temple of the Holy Spirit; it teachers an automatic immortality which makes an end of a moral interpretation of history; it depersonalizes God so that He becomes an 'essence' or 'principle' and ceases to be the Person; consequently it despises history and the world as illusory, and shows an ostrich-like optimism towards sin, and an unwillingness to change the social conditions, which militate against the full development of personality. Salvation is through identification with God by means of meditation, not by the transformation of the will.

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I strongly recommend the Spanish mystical school. Nowhere else have I found that perfect mix between style and thought.

Are there any mystics that btfo lgbt degenerates? The usual shit doesn't convince them. I want them to spiritually know what sinful shits they really are.

Any works that you can suggest/recommend?

Most of that lit is pretty cringe bro. Just read Kierkegaard.

t. Going to a Roman Catholic Church

>literature

All of San Juan de la Cruz, specially his poetry and its gloss; Santa Teresa de Jesús, I've only read Las Moradas, but it is said that she was the true core of the movement; Fray Luis de León, His comments on El Cantar de los Cantares and The Book of Solomon, and his poetry. I'm obviously forgetting a lot, but this will be good for a start.

Gracias, los revisaré cuando pueda. Aunque debo amitir que cualquier cosa que tenga que ver con Solomon me da cosita.

Are you joking?

admitir*

No? Not everyone on this board is a commie.

Don't forget Weil's Gravity and Grace

On what planet would a gay man take the opinion of someone spouting a Christian mystic they barely understood convince them of anything?

>desert fathers unintentionally send a robber to jail
>they break him out
Are there any true Christians left?

>a gay man
>gay
>man
KEK.

Si F. Luis de León te da algo de vértigo te recomiendo que empieces con su poesía, de ahí sigas con su traducción del Cantar de los Cantares y recién ahí te metás con Salomón. Realmente no tiene desperdicio.
Si mal no recuerdo Fray Luis era uno de los poetas españoles que más gustaron a Borges.
PD: si la poesía es lo que realmente te interesa, te insto a que vayas ya mismo y leás la Noche Oscura de S. Juan de la Cruz. Sin exagerar es lo más conmovedor y hermoso que en mí vida he leída.

if gay men aren't men then why's it a sin to fuck them?

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/music sounds

The fact that homosexuality is wrong and against nature has been common sense for all of history, so people didn't need treatise's about it. Thomas Jefferson put forward the suggestion that gay men be castrated and gay women have their noses destroyed, rather than being killed.

It is still common sense that it's wrong, which is why people need to push it so emotionally and righteously, because without that overcompensation the plain reality of common sense facts would stand for itself

Common sense needs brutality to be accepted? Sounds like it may not be common sense in fact. Truly, moral righteousness is a narrow path, and it is its own reward.

Are you talking about a Protestant church?
Because the RCC certainly isn't like that.
Stop shitposting lad. When your judgement is upon you, you'll have to answer to the Lord why you based your faith on notions you adopted from /Pol/.
Sedevaticanists are heretics, they are quite literally protestants. They are protesting the seat of Peter and the Holy Spirit.
Best post itc.
Focus on one's own prayer life first. Read the scriptures and the lives of the saints. Many of the Christian hermits, monks and mystics lived a life entirely different from our life. It's a beautiful thing to live the life that they lived, but if anyone here wishes to live a similar life, your journey starts with certainly giving up all your luxuries, and perhaps all your possessions. Live as the first disciples. Dedicate your life to the poor.
After these first big steps are accomplished, you'll understand more fully the miracles afforded to you by the Lord our God.

>John O'Donohue - Divine Beauty:the mystical embrace
This was an irish catholic priest who was also very inspired by the irish soul of love of nature etc. Highly recommended, some of the most beautiful prose I've read

Does God not want us to btfo degenerate faggots? Does he not call them abominations and say they should be killed?

Gracias user :)

No, that which is against common sense needs brutality to be accepted ie. homosexuality. read the post again reading-comprehensionlet

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“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
Matthew 5:21-22 KJV
“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”
Matthew 7:5-6 KJV

You write very poorly.

Monasticism makes your argument invalid.

>Does God not want us to btfo degenerate faggots?
God wants us to love all people and help bring them to communion with the Lord. We can make people aware of their sinful ways, however we must never let our pride takeover and act in false divine retribution. We must focus primarily on helping people accept God and trust in his divine providence.
>Does he not call them abominations and say they should be killed?
No. In fact Christians are told not to the take the life of another.

Do you have any other questions about Christianity? I'm happy to show you what we believe.
The Catechism is also a great place to start if you want an overview.

Common sense would suggest you're a faggot. You're lucky we don't castrate your foul kind any more. Evil being.

Watch that edge user

Listen to this man.

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Kek stay mad gayfag

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Kek. Mad I btfo you gayfag?

Monasticism is taking on the suffering of others? Bullshit

>Admirable Secret of the Rosary
>True Devotion to Mary
>The Love of Eternal Wisdom
>Secret of the Rosary
Louis de Montfort

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Shitposting user, we'll pray for you.

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isn't this one incomplete?

Out of curiosity:
Say there was an agnostic (but still open minded) prostitute or gay man, who lived an otherwise completely virtuous life with many good deeds done and no bad deeds aside from lack of faith and prositution/gayness.
Would they go to hell?

Do you have a more complete version?

Not necessarily. Benedict XVI's document Spe Salvi has a section of purgatory that goes into this problem, of what happens to those that, while not wholly rejecting the Good, are still morally compromised in some way.

Nah, I might be thinking of another chart that ended up with some yellow image similar to that Doré's painting.

The type of a persons sexuality reaches to the heights of their being.
Most homosexuals live degenerate lifestyles. They have multiple partners, use drugs, and commit sodomy and burn in lust. They also have an exorbant amount of pride - homosexuality has more to do with pride than lust. It is a rebellion against nature and God, which is an act of pride, not lust.

Why is sexuality viewed in a moral vacuum? Can a person who is only immoral sexually be said to be virtuous? A persons sexuality is their relationship with life, creation, love. Can a person pervert all of these things and be said to be virtuous? I'll let you ask yourself

Could you post a link to catholic ideas on purgatory? I'm off to sleep now, but as a curious non-believer I'm interested
Thanks for telling me about that document, and thanks in advance if you can link me anything further, no worries if not.

She's great but takes too much of Timaeus seriously, making her somewhat heterodox.

But already my desire and my will
were being turned like a wheel, all at one speed,
by the Love which moves the sun and the other stars.

--
These lines remind me a bit of Hermetica.

Now kinda offtopic, it was quite tricky to get pic related with a decent format, also happened the same with a engraving of Godfrey of Bouillon entering Jerusalem. It seems someone is going through some legal hoops to copyright them? Even yandex isn't giving me the real deal.

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Noone is virtuous though. That is what the new testament points out several times.

Doesn't change the fact that homosexuals are in a state of sin and are proud of it. 90% of them are sub-human.

Much of the Philokalia is completely orthodox for both Catholics and Orthodox, so I would say that is among the best sources of Christian prayer.

As someone who reads pretty much only books on esoterism and religion, I would still be careful pushing the envelope Kabbalistic or Magical elements. Some of those authors OP posted are certainly not Christian and hardly even have any traditional religious grounding whatsoever, according to the Guenonian definition. Also the very fact you post mysticism and esoterism under the same thread shows a rather worrying misunderstanding of the separation of the two domains. Don't get me wrong, it is very interesting and I've read tons of works on occultism, but my soul is always drawn back to the simple devotions of the Jesus Prayer and the Rosary. Everyone thinks they are called to esoteric wisdom and that is nowhere near the truth. Many are called, few are chosen. Among the chosen, even fewer are exalted to see the holy light like that on Mt. Tabor. If you humble yourself and don't seek spiritual gifts, they will come to you when you are ready. If you change your life to try and achieve such things, they will be perverted and even inverted, if they even come at all due to your obsession. A similar sentiment can be seen in the east with the metaphor of the Lotus flower that simply blooms and in the Gospels with the parable of the Sparrows

The best prayer you can do is invoke the name of God; this is shared across nearly all religions for good reason. In fact, the name of God was so highly revered in Mt. Athos that at one point there was a debate as to whether the name of God was God himself. The debate did not result in the affirmative, but nonetheless, it shows the importance of the prayer. I believe Guenon wrote an article on the Holy Name of Jesus as well related to St. Bonaventure that is a good read (I quite possibly have the saint wrong though).

Soon, icchantika.

Soon.

Depends, it also says
>Be thou perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect.
No doubt we are all sinners. But to have a connection to virtue, with is our Inner Christ, and strive to become more like that is the essence of mysticism. It means to renounce sin and turn to faith instead. This would presuppose renouncing sexual sin as well

After the advent of Christianity, Buddhism actually became the same way. See Mahayana school, which seeks absolute self sacrifice and taking the suffering of the world onto yourself, it is Christian.

It shows me that the spiritual sacrifice of Christ transformed the soul of the world, because this wasn't through cultural exchange. It was a new inspiration which emerged

Seems like that is pride, downplaying Grace. The message about striving does not contradict the commandment to love and the injunction to forgive. Perfect forgiveness is the perfection it alludes to in fact, since God was sparing us damnation through Christ.

There was cultural exchange though.

Other user. FWIW I have a Spanish friends who is a fan of poetry, reads in five or six languages, and he told me San Juan de la Cruz wrote the best poetry in Spanish he's ever read.

There's a decent explanation of purgatory in the Catechism, but the best is still probably in Spe Salvi, as I mentioned. The entire document is well worth reading, but the section that most relates to your interests is Section 3 (paragraphs 41-48):

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi.html

This video is also worth watching, gives a quick but accurate summary of the Church's teachings on this question: youtube.com/watch?v=N8COHAt0JWA

Maybe of spices and silks, but not of the soul essence of their esoteric religions.

I think you're wrong. Those traders had religions.

>how do i discribe hipnottism in sa pic allso how do i discribe systamatic genecide of acontinent using hypnotics and memes
also how do i show the true benifactor of actiosn liek these mentionsed

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You are in a state of sin just for making that post.

They werent trading with the purely monastic mahayana buddhists, the religious and merchant classes were completely separate.

And they werent discussing the heart essence of their religions which is not grasped by most people. The transformation in Buddhism had nothing to do with an actual transmission of traditions. It was a change in the understanding of their doctrine, they called it the next turning of the wheel of Buddhas doctrine. It was an actual transformation. It didnt include Christ, faith, or any of the outward tenants of Christianity. But it did include sacrifice of the self, taking on the suffering of others onto yourself, sacrificing for beings throughout time and saving beings from suffering.

Basically, no. Even among scholars they dont see this happening because it was in no way an outward documentable transformation. But it was a transformation of the soul of humanity that led Buddhists to start practicing a Buddhist faith with a Christian essence.

Then why ascribe it to Christianity at all? Why not some perennial turn in culture, coincidental with the advent of broad international trade? Why assert a definite correlation while denying it may have been carried out through human hands. To me you are erring too hard on the side of idealism.

Valuable contribution, though I feel the need to remark I just wanted to post this pic related, but the quality was awful, the other titles got them from a guy on 8ch /occult/, dude was an orthodox iirc.

Being said that I only read part of Tomberg's book but I felt I was missing out on a lot of references.

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That's my opinion,you are free to accept or reject it

And yet you post a meme with oral sex, which is not procreation and serves no point other than recreation. You're guilty of the same enormities as the sodomites. Both of you are totally in the wrong.

I don't outright reject it I think it is fascinating really but I also think there is room for human effort and error. I have often wondered what brought Christ and Buddha about.

granted. A meme is a joke though. I posted it because I like the hegel lectures

>Everyone thinks they are called to esoteric wisdom and that is nowhere near the truth. Many are called, few are chosen.
I would say no one is called, since esoteric wisdom is basically demonic.

Stop joking about perverse things that serve to normalize pornography.

I've developed an interest in Kabbalah.
I have a copy of "Simplified Magic: A Beginner's Guide To New Age Qabala" by Ted Andrews. Tried reading it, and I'm pretty sure it's garbage.
What's a good Idiot's Introduction to Kabbalah?

Entry level (but solid
>Dion Fortune - the Mystical Kaballah
God tier
>Samael Aun Weor - Tarot and Kaballah

Not Christian.
Leave.

Jesus never taught Christians to do any of that. You are another daus fault larper who doesn't really believe in any of this.

Christianity doesn't take upon the suffering of others. In reality Christianity inflicts suffering on oneself and others.

Islam is more up your alley.

It is strange that you are so hate filled towards gays. Probably you are secretly gay and hate yourself for it, and project that onto others.

The Catholic Church is about love. There’s a serious misunderstanding over anthropology and theology with the modernists, but the fundamental reason for the existence of the Church is love.
w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est.html

>You think homosexuality is immoral? You must be gay
How can people be this retarded? Does anyone know?

Any books on fasting, celibacy, self-renunciation in general?

Thoughts on The Mirror of Simple Souls?

On the contrary, it's only through esoteric wisdom that one is able to identify and OVERCOME one's demons.

Neat thread. These are some of my favorites. Guyon especially gets into the mystical and experiencing fellowship with God.
Nee's work is more descriptive than prescriptive, but very good nonetheless.
Brother Lawrence's practice of the presence of God is a classic and must read for any believer.

The kabbalah and tarot shit I'd stay away from though.

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heresy
>Brother Lawrence
based, he's awesome

Thomas a Kempis is about the best you'll get desu

Has anyone here read John MacArthur's newish systematic theology book?

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Thinking it's immoral is one thing.

Spending all your time ranting against it indicates something else. You have to ask why you care so much about gays in particular , when there are other sins people do much more often. It's because it's on your mind a lot that you talk about it so much.

Looks protty

Hey chaps

assuming supercessionism is true,

why is the jewish faith inconsistent with christianity? aren't they just incomplete christians?

The Jewish faith doesn't have FAITH. that's why. simple as.

nope. Is he still a cessationist?

what do i do if i feel as if i am not redeemable
how do i cast out years of atheistic rejection
why do i feel a call and yet can't claim to have any faith, can't reason with the idea of god

I think they have an unwavering belief in (at least one aspect of) God (i.e. the Father). What they believe will come of it is another thing.

You feel irredeemable? Well God redeemed you, so...

I'm not sure what you mean by casting out years of athiest rejection

Read the new testament, user. Pray, ask God to show or reveal himself to you, He will. He's very near, and he loves you. I love you too.

Get over yourself.

All this christcuck self pity over sinfulness is just disguised egoism

this lmao

>I love you too.

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There is no Christian Mysticism without Gnosticism, because it is the interior mystery that the other doctrine of the Gospels only hints at in various riddles. Valentinus' doctrine has more profundity than any of your simple desert fathers, who took the living Wisdom and substituted for her the doctrine of a dead man.

Heresy

Meditations on the Tarot is NOT a book on divination.

I'll greentext to make it more legible:

>be practicing catholic
>genuinely interested on spiritual discernment since we live in wicked times
>read book
>make a thread on 8ch@n's christian board about it exposing this christian view of the UFO phenomena
>it gets deleted and I get banned
>reason: demonology is forbidden
>theres nothing in the rules about that. apparently spiritual discernment is "esoteric", which is forbidden

Not the first time I see a legit thread on demons being deleted.

>go to their discord
>"ufos dont exist retard" says one
>"orthodox are heretic" says another

what's with some christians willingly trying to conceal the existance of demons?

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In Spanish I recommend too
>San Rafael arnaiz
Last century saint, very emotional, I recommend his diary as he relates his sufferings on the struggles of becoming a monk with a great illness
>San Antonio Maria claret
"Camino recto y seguro para llegar al cielo" its like a more practical imitation of Christ book, filled with popular prayers and devotions and it contains an interesting explanation on internal and external mortification

8ch's christian board is the most intellectually dishonest board of the bunch, I suspect a big majority are either protties who are fond of catholicism/orthodoxy just because of the aesthetics.

Just because you can't comprehend the profundity of the desert fathers doesn't mean it isn't there

TEST

>whereas a Christian takes upon himself even the suffering of other
Is this why Christians are so insufferable?

So forgive them, faggot.

The projection is strong in this one. Come out of the closet, user.

Why does that matter to you?

Sins like slander and backbiting are much worse.

is this the book you read about ufos and demons? if not, what was it? If so, is it worth reading?

WHAT IS THE THIRD FATIMA SECRET I MUST KNOW
WHY WON'T THEY TELL US

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yes that's the book. but i just finished this one and i'd recommend it over that on this subject. that book only has one chapter and this includes some quotes from it (plus some by c s lewis). charles upton is a sufi perennialist and agrees it's the case of demons and he also gives advices for those who investigate this topic. he quotes the gospel to a good extent too. in addition to the citation of jacques vellee he mentions a psychiatrist who studied cases of abduction.

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Christian Gnosis = / = historical Gnosticism

>If so, is it worth reading?
i'd consider so. I can sum it up for you: UFOs have nothing to do with intelligent space travelers. They are from the "subtle realm" and their entire contact with humans revolve around deception.

In the past every religious person would agree they are mere demons, but due to the influence of the post-religious sci-fi views we tend to think of UFOs as if they were something related to sentient beings from other planets. All of this is bullshit. UFOs = demons and abductions are real.

Some people have tried to investigate these things on purely objective grounds and gathered important data such as Hynek and Jacques Vellee. Vellee speaks openly about the deceptive nature of UFOs and says only 10% of the cases reported are real. John E. Mack studied 200 patients who suffered abduction and concluded it is real, but he doesn't go any further into linking them to demons. He agrees it can run in families and that are people who are more vulnerable to it.

We must be careful to not become obsessed over this, though. We must always focus on God otherwise we might become victims of them.

Have you read it?

Traps aren't gay

It's probably something that turned out to be untrue

it would be very grave if the church omitted that. They are clear on what is authentic and what's not

Why else would they hide it? They know if they reveal it was bs, it will destroy the faith of many people.

Listen to this poster.

Avoid Gnostic/Kabbalist/Hermetic shit like the plague. It is utterly demonic, always has been and always will be.

True mysticism of the heart and mind is not Gnostic, which in it's nature assumes any type of spirituality is not legitimate unless it is of it's occult and perverse nature.

It appeals to the proud and convoluted who would rather know extremely intricate, peculiar and faulty systems of novelty than a coherent system that lends itself to a healthy and functional spiritual life.

Read St. Irenaeus' Against Heresies, Dionysius the Areopagite, St. Augustine, St. Gregory Palamas and others to get a solid grasp of refutation against Gnostic metaphysics and doctrines.

People have to know spiritual warfare now, I've experienced a lot myself since I converted to Catholicism a year ago from a Pentecostal.

I was actually one of the people who got any talk of esotericism banned, /christian/ is highly skiddish about any talk concerning demons and it is not healthy, no one who talked of esoteric stuff there talked positively, I was vehemently against it from the moment I joined the board/server.

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If there was one book you'd recommend to an interested non-believer what would it be? (aside from the bible)

>since I converted to Catholicism a year ago

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Christians are a bunch of scared cucks.

There's nothing demonic about becoming more conscious. If anything, your kike masters want you in this low consciousness state, afraid of "demons", you are easier to control that way.

unfortunately all the talk about demons, obsessions, possessions and temptations are alien to some of the contemporary catholics. some don't even believe in demons anymore which is completely anti-biblical and anti-christian.

don't they realize most of jesus' ministry involved exorcisms?

i know at least three exorcists that write public books on the theme --- who would know better than them on the disclosure of it?. it's intriguing to think they would be banned from /christian/. I guess even saints and popes would be if they posted there. are online catholic communities becoming self help-social gathering groups for meme posting and larping?

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this one

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>debo amitir que cualquier cosa que tenga que ver con Solomon me da cosita.

Ya deja de visitar pol, underage impresionable nalgas meadas.

Happy feast day of Saint Athanasius the Great, one of the most legendary men in all the history of the Church. He wrote many classic works of Christian thought, as well. I particularly love his Life of Saint Anthony.

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The vatican is babylon reborn.

yes fi mi broda i and i know dat de whi mon ah ah BABYLON IMPOSTER
jah rastafari

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>But the mysteries of that marriage are perfected rather in the day and the light. Neither that day nor its light ever sets. If anyone becomes a son of the bridal chamber, he will receive the light. If anyone does not receive it while he is here, he will not be able to receive it in the other place. He who will receive that light will not be seen, nor can he be detained. And none shall be able to torment a person like this, even while he dwells in the world. And again when he leaves the world, he has already received the truth in the images. The world has become the Aeon (eternal realm), for the Aeon is fullness for him. This is the way it is: it is revealed to him alone, not hidden in the darkness and the night, but hidden in a perfect day and a holy light.

>mfw the marriage between philosophy and theology makes your reason and your faith one and the same
>mfw it's real

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>>We may note that Gnostic eclecticisms have the following features in common. Their religion appeals to the proud rather than the humble in heart, for it claims to sum up the best in other religions and thus castigates adherents of the older faiths. Its appeal is largely to intellectuals and initiates and not to the great under-privileged multitudes of the world. Their philosophy is almost always pantheistic and shares the characteristic weaknesses of that outlook; for example, it despises the body which for the Christian is the temple of the Holy Spirit; it teachers an automatic immortality which makes an end of a moral interpretation of history; it depersonalizes God so that He becomes an 'essence' or 'principle' and ceases to be the Person; consequently it despises history and the world as illusory, and shows an ostrich-like optimism towards sin, and an unwillingness to change the social conditions, which militate against the full development of personality. Salvation is through identification with God by means of meditation, not by the transformation of the will

It is remarkable how this is all wrong, not just upon examination, but wrong-wrong.

Jesus calls us to love eachother. Even those who are the product of this broken world must be loved.

"Lord grant us peace to accept that which we cannot change."

Do not hate gays simply for being gay. However, they should be called out for weaponizing their sexuality as an excuse to be openly promiscuous and sexual, as they often do.

Truly, Catholicism is Atheism and Atheism is Catholicism.

That guy after death:

God: good to see you, don't be ashamed to rememb-

Him: Read St. Irenaeus' Against Heresies, Dionysius the Areopagite, St. Augustine, St. Gregory Palamas and others to get a solid grasp of refutation against Gnostic metaphysics and doctrines reeeeeeeeEEEEEEE

It's a perennialist book disguised as Christian.

Not op, but someone who loves Christian mysticism (and Gnosticism) and that plays important part of his life. I have been introduced to the church, like many others, because of the community I lived in and my parents. Ofcourse, I didn't buy this stuff, overall I don't think I really got it or that I was interested in it.

However, the turn came with reading more about philosophy and psychology. There are many many things that are to be said about belief and that are useful.

If I were to chose only one book then I'd probably say: "Tao Te Ching" by Lao Tzu. It's foundational for any mysticism or spirituality or well... religion. Other books would include: "Fear and Trembling" by Kierkegaard, "I and Though" by Martin Buber, Simone Weil's "Gravity and Grace", "VALIS" by Philip K. Dick, and unironically Wittgenstein's "Philosophical Investigations"

>perennialist
*traditionalist

Based and breadpilled

8ch is an awful board for the discussion of Christianity. It is nothing but political discussion that is veiled to look spiritual in nature. It will turn you into a crypto-Protestant with its obsession of reducing the scripture to merely its mortal element, always scared to discuss true spiritual matters.

You have no understanding of the history of Christianity if you think Hermeticism is demonic. Every pre-modern Christian writer from Augustine to Luther and beyond all respected the Hermetic teachings, so much so in fact that in certain Catholic cathedrals like that of Siena, Hermes is within the Church mosaics himself. Clearly they would not be a demon in the Church. You have very little understanding of the relationship between esoterism and mysticism and the fact you attempt to say they are mutually exclusive shows your incomprehension of such matters. Frankly though, you are not wrong in much of what you say for the average joe.

All of religion can not exist in such a irony-obsessed civilization like that of the west. Don't expect anything to get better and /christian/ i

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It's not wrong. If Gnostics are not disdaining marriage, they are glorifying fornication. Gnosticism sees the world as something to escape, and there is nothing which, at its core, is more antithetical to the spirit of true Christianity, which seeks to purge all such vanity. Gnosticism is really nothing but clandestine paganism and archaic religion.

Jews try to follow the Law from the OT. However, that Law was just a mean to get to God and Christ, Wisdom incarnated, fulfilled it, revealed it at its whole and made it all interior. So what the jews really follow is a bad copy of the Old Law devoid of the Spirit of God. That's basically legalism as a religion.

Isn't it the same thing.

This is a nice recommendation, friend.

Left and right wing versions, perhaps.

Why is this thread so cringe?

The two wings of the Beast, it's all heresy.

>Avoid Gnostic/Kabbalist/Hermetic shit like the plague.
You must be fun at parties... Or did your daddy Chysostomos tell you to not even go to the theater? You just got owned, kid. See you later.

Religion is cringe

Prisca Theologia

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>Every pre-modern Christian writer from Augustine to Luther and beyond all respected the Hermetic teachings
Hermes Trismegistus was a legitimate philosopher though, that's why. It's the tradition is idiot esoteric crap that spawned from his ideas that's the problem. Also, if the you have the scriptures and the sacraments, why do you need to embellish your faith with all this esoteric nonsense? Isn't a simple faith enough? There's a great story about St John of the Cross where he was sitting on the beach reading the Bible, and his fellower Carmelites came up to him and say "Hey there's a stigmatist near here and we're gonna check it out, wanna come?" and John replied, "Why? I have everything I need right here." Be like St John. :)

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Atheists are often incredulous at the thought of anyone, especially someone intelligent, genuinely having faith in God. Therefore, they attempt to rationalize away the reasons a person could be a believer, and become increasingly ridiculous along with their rationalizations.

How can you have mysticism without belief in God? What is it your uniting with then, if there isn't a God?

That's a weird way to say Christianity.

You are being legalistic.

Again, it does not seem you understand the nature of esoterism and the hermetic sciences that form an essential part of the corpus hermeticum. That is fine though and I never stated that you need esoterism for the salvation of the soul (Deliverance beyond the individual condition, though, perhaps is another story). If you soul isn't called to esoterism that is totally fine and frankly a good thing for most people. However, don't write off that which is nourishment for different souls.

>Deliverance beyond the individual condition, though, perhaps is another story
That doesn't come from esotericism. That comes from grace.

based and tolerantpilled

>but political discussion that is veiled to look spiritual in nature.
I guess you've never posted on /Christian/. It is very heavily moderated and /Pol/tier edgelords are routinely banned. For example, the dickhead up above that tried to argue for the death of homosexuals would've been banned from /Christian/ because it's clearly coming from a place of anger and political division rather than heavenly-instituted love for our fellow sinners.

hey. i've been curious about biblical history and was wondering there might be some books or podcasts that might talk about the topic? i'm not here to bash on religion nor seek being brought into it myself, but i'd prefer if it were from an unbiased source (i.e. not trying to teach me biblical beliefs nor completely bashing on the more spiritual elements of things). i'm imagining this might be too heavy a request, but i'm not sure where to turn for these interests.
i do believe jesus existed. there's many things in the bible that happened in history on too many accounts to say it never happened at all. i'd very much like to read up on it more and i appreciate any aid in advance

First of all, I think its important to study how traditional religions view history; I would try reading a few books on the historiography of religion. For most cultures before the modern age, history was not so linear and absolute as it is viewed as now. Guenon sort of talks about this in a few of his books and it is quite important for understanding exactly what is intended when historicity of the texts come into play. There are a lot of Christians that try and say that the Bible is nothing but literal historically and others than say it is nothing but symbolic. I think both are rather shortsighted. This applies moreso for the Old Testament.
In terms of the New Testament, I'm not really sure honestly and others would have better reccs than I could do.

If the conclusion you come to is 'christianity' then that would seem to show the inadequacy of both faith and reason.

> How can you have mysticism without belief in God? What is it your uniting with then, if there isn't a God?

You would have more out of it if you would answer this yourself.

However, I will do it too.
The talk is rarely about a father figure creator God (I'm saying it in this way because usually, not all people, but many assume that the talk is about: "Is there an all-knowing father figure in the sky, or not?") As I mentioned, start with one of the earliest texts: "Tao Te Ching" and you will see what I mean. Mysticism, spirituality, religion, is to my knowledge, often (probably always) about practice and experience of some form of divinity. However, this doesn't mean that you do not have at least some doubt. In fact, I don't know of any legitimate,non-dogmatic and genuine mystic or saint who did not experience doubt in one way or the other (think of St. Augustine's “There is no saint without a past, no sinner without a future."
It is not: "I know there is a God, and that's it, the talk is done forever". It's usually more: "How can I not believe in X when I've experienced and seen Y?"

Examples:
Simone Weil writes:

> Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith; and in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be an atheist with that part of myself which is not made for God. Among those in whom the supernatural part of themselves has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong.

Martin Buber:
>The atheist staring from his attic window is often nearer to God than the believer caught up in his own false image of God.

Jesus:
> Father why hast thou forsaken me

To doubt, or as some people like to fashionably say skepticism (while, often, they specifically mean "glorified" atheism) is, it seems to me, a characteristic not (exclusively, or at all) of atheism but of theism. Without belief there's nothing to be doubted, and the other way around, too. Despite all of it, despite the fact that there is one rational explanation, the (mystical/religious) experience witnessed the person cannot or will not deny it, whether he/she says that they believe in God or not (there's more to it than words can say)

man, this thread really deserves more light

Does "The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz" count as Christian?

It's most likely a fraud or hyperstition but so is Jesus...0

Simone Weil is based. Gravity and Grace is amazing as philosophy alone let alone theology. If you like the Tao, might I suggest reading Parmenides and Empedocles and Heraclitus? There are some good poetic translations of all three. Some of my most treasured books. Also enriches understanding of Logos. According to a translation of the Tao by Wilhelm, he writes in the notes that Christians in China originally translated John: "In the beginning was the Tao"...

>Christians in China originally translated John: "In the beginning was the Tao"...

Wonderful, I did not know that. Thank you very much user. I was aware of the connections of Buddhism & Christianity, but not so much of Taoism & Christianity, even though I love all and most of Taoist writing. I have read Heraclitus and loved it, but not the other 2, however, I have read about Pre-Socratic philosophers and Parmenides did come up frequently (which books on/by Parmenides or Empedocles and translations would you recommend?)

Btw, have you read Boethius' "The Consolation of Philosophy"? I haven't seen it mentioned so far and it is another one book I really love (in few parts boring, but when Boethius is at his peak height, then he is really high)

>Meditations on the Tarot - Valentin Tomberg
>Jesus, The Last Great Initiate - Edourad Schuré
>Magical Christianity: The Power of Symbols for >Spiritual Renewal - Coleston Brown
>Patterns in Magical Christianity - Nicholas Whitehead (Coleston Brown pseudonym iirc)
>Experience of the Inner Worlds - Gareth Knight
>A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism - Gareth Knight

Take this heresy out of here my dude.

>Borella
You too.

I agree with the first ones, but Borella is fine as far as I know?

Get the Stanley Lombardo both-in-one for pure pottery.

I read around most of Boethius when I was thinking of converting around a year or two ago, I suppose in some sense I have an undefined sophiological faith, but am leaning more toward Hegelian Lacanaian Post-Structuralism as closest to Truth these days...

>Borella is fine as far as I know
he's literally all about "Christian gnosis is good"

where can I read about christian anarchists or distributism

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>he thinks Christianity conquering Europe was a good thing

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>christian anarchists
antithetic
>distributism
Try the 2 volumes of "Distributist perspectives" (IHS Press)

Don't listen to people telling you it's heresy, read Simone Weil, Ellul and Tolstoy if you are looking for this.

Back to 8ch

Christianity was originally anarchistic in the Roman Empire. Just read about the early actions and beliefs of the Church and you will see.

I'm not sure that I meant 'belief' in the sense that it precludes all doubt. I simply meant that a mysticism that makes no distinction as to what God or gods it is experiencing is dangerous basically. It's like St Augustine's point that when you pick and choose what you believe, its not the faith that you believe but yourself. That's my only worry when people mix different strands of mysticism (although I do it myself--the Bhagavat Gita is the shit). You sound like a cool dude. I just find 'gnosticism' a dirty word.