>”The unrighteous man, or the sayer and doer of unholy things, had far better not be encouraged in the illusion that his roguery is clever; for men glory in their shame -they fancy that they hear others saying of them, "These are not mere good-for nothing persons, mere burdens of the earth, but such as men should be who mean to dwell safely in a state." Let us tell them that they are all the more truly what they do not think they are because they do not know it; for they do not know the penalty of injustice, which above all things they ought to know-not stripes and death, as they suppose, which evil-doers often escape, but a penalty which cannot be escaped.”
Plato is so gay. Democracy is gay, mysticism is gay, moralism is gay, and Utopianism is extremely gay
James Ramirez
I dont understand, is he saying they will be punished in an afterlife?
how tf is that any different than what christcucks preach and how cpuld that possibly have any philosophic basis? holy shit I'm glad I skipped these pseuds
Sebastian Harris
You don’t seem to understand what they meant by afterlife, judgement day, or day of resurrection. “Let those who have eyes see, and those who have ears listen.” Try harder, is rooting for u faggot
Wyatt Lee
obscurantism doesn’t make you seem like less of a pseud
>judgement day and resurrection so... a day when you will be judged and then raised from the dead.. >UH NO L O L IT'S ACTUALLY A PARABOLIC SIGNIFIER FOR A REORIENTATION OF ONTOLOGY if that's what they meant why wouldn't they say that >REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
every time. I swear 90% of theism is just backpeddling while trying to obfuscate your way out of the obvious ridiculousness of your dogma's claims
Hudson Wilson
>But to the Mind-less ones, the wicked and depraved, the envious and covetous, and those who murder do and love impiety, I am far off, yielding my place to the Avenging Daimon, who sharpening the fire, tormenteth him and addeth fire to fire upon him, and rusheth on him through his senses, thus rendering him the readier for transgressions of the law, so that he meets with greater torment; nor doth he ever cease to have desire for appetites inordinate, insatiately striving in the dark
Don't be put off to Plato because some naive christians like OP read him for the first time and think to themselves "wow this is so epic and based". Plato drew a sharp line between mere opinion and knowledge, the latter being certain insofar as it is supported by a philosophical basis created through the means of Reason/ dialectic. The next passage might give some context to the passage in the OP >Theodorus: What is that? >Socrates: There are two patterns eternally set before them; the one blessed and divine, the other godless and wretched: but they do not see them, or perceive that in their utter folly and infatuation they are growing like the one and unlike the other, by reason of their evil deeds; and the penalty is, that they lead a life answering to the pattern which they are growing like. And if we tell them, that unless they depart from their cunning, the place of innocence will not receive them after death; and that here on earth, they will live ever in the likeness of their own evil selves, and with evil friends-when they hear this they in their superior cunning will seem to be listening to the talk of idiots. Basically it can be summarized as, if you do good things consistently, you will live a good life. If you do bad things consistently, which almost always entails mistaking bad things for good (since no one desires what is bad for them), then you will live a bad life to the detriment of you and your peers. This particular passage emphasizes the ignorance of those who are wicked. This all relates to Plato's general schema since he is a pretty systematic writer, so it can easily be misinterpreted if one is not already familiar with Plato's ideas.
Blake Jones
>naive christians like OP read him for the first time
FUUUUCK u faggot the entire first paragraph of the quote I originally posted goes like this
>”SOCRATES: "Evils, Theodorus, can never pass away; for there must always remain something which is antagonistic to good. Having no place among the gods in heaven, of necessity they hover around the mortal nature, and this earthly sphere. Wherefore we ought to fly away from earth to heaven as quickly as we can; and to fly away is to become like God, as far as this is possible; and to become like him, is to become holy, just, and wise. But, O my friend, you cannot easily convince mankind that they should pursue virtue or avoid vice, not merely in order that a man may seem to be good, which is the reason given by the world, and in my judgment is only a repetition of an old wives fable. Whereas, the truth is that God is never in any way unrighteous-he is perfect righteousness; and he of us who is the most righteous is most like him. Herein is seen the true cleverness of a man, and also his nothingness and want of manhood. For to know this is true wisdom and virtue, and ignorance of this is manifest folly and vice. All other kinds of wisdom or cleverness, which seem only, such as the wisdom of politicians, or the wisdom of the arts, are coarse and vulgar.”
Christianity Judaism and Islam are actually manifestations of a platonic and neoplatonic theology that can be traced back through the hermetics and the kabbalists to pythagoras, orpheus, and the greek mysteries and further on to the immemorial wisdom of chaldea and egypt. The differences between the three faiths are merely superficial. Truly learned men(so called Magii) of all centuries have always been well aware of this fact.
Jesus, the Jowett translation reads so poorly. The Levett translation for that passage is much better. >SOCRATES: But it is not possible, Theodorus, that evil should be destroyed—for there must always be something opposed to the good; nor is it possible that it should have its seat in heaven. But it must inevitably haunt human life, and prowl about this earth. That is why a man should make all haste to escape from earth to heaven; and escape means becoming as like God as possible; and a man becomes like God when he becomes just and pious, with understanding. But it is not at all an easy matter, my good friend, to persuade men that it is not for the reasons commonly alleged that one should try to escape from wickedness and pursue virtue. It is not in order to avoid a bad reputation and obtain a good one that virtue should be practiced and not vice; that, it seems to me, is only what men call ‘old wives’ talk’. >Let us try to put the truth in this way. In God there is no sort of wrong whatsoever; he is supremely just, and the thing most like him is the man who has become as just as it lies in human nature to be. And it is here that we see whether a man is truly able, or truly a weakling and a non-entity; for it is the realization of this that is genuine wisdom and goodness, while the failure to realize it is manifest folly and wickedness (Theaetetus 176a-c) Anyways I would have to be an idiot to deny Plato's huge influence on Abrahamic theology. They even tried to retcon Plato into their club later on. None of this means you ought to read Plato like you read the Bible or mistake Plato's ideas as some sort of proto-Christianity. Return back to your religious studies and leave philosophy to the philosophers.
Adam Peterson
WHAT SHITTY RESPONSE I was waiting for something better user honestly >Return back to your religious studies and leave philosophy to the philosophers U should have just not said anything
I responded to what you said, which wasn't much, so I'm not sure what you expected.
Zachary Lewis
Oh I dunno maybe something beyond community college categories >uh, the translation, huh, it’s... mmm I like this one better Ok, and as to what the text says >huh. Yea we’ll, in order to, uh, do my intelligence justice I should acknowledge the, uh, the influence of Plato on abrahamic religions, even tho they were thousand years apart... >you know what, u should just (wipes sweat off brow) just leave the philosophizing to philosophers hurhurhur
Your a fucking moron user
Dylan Ramirez
You should realize you haven't actually directly referenced any passages you posted besides saying "How can one man be so based" in the OP. In my post where I remarked on the translation, I responded to the only thing you have added so far to this thread (and even that was unrelated to the passage you posted). It is very apparent you are overzealous and too willing to see Platonism as some sort of proto-Christianity like I said before. Back to /pol/ or /his/ for you LARPer
>even that was unrelated to the passage you posted
Literally from the same passage
Oliver Hall
Oh my bad I missed the part of that passage where Plato talks about how "Christianity Judaism and Islam are actually manifestations of a platonic and neoplatonic theology that can be traced back through the hermetics and the kabbalists to pythagoras, orpheus, and the greek mysteries and further on to the immemorial wisdom of chaldea and egypt". My mistake.
:^)
Chase Foster
not in this thread
Gavin Stewart
Watching you struggling through your categories dropping one here while juggling unrelated ones there all the while remaining confident in this farce because thats how they conditioned you to believe what intelligence looked like is as cringey as it is shameful user honestly
I cannot repost the same image in the thread I found it that would violate the rules
Robert Taylor
No I mean use it
Ayden Sanchez
Fools shall cling to the shreds of reality that has been lost in the language of the philosophers only to realize the infinite lies within the hearts of what has always been and will always be. The word of God
(66) Jesus said, "Show me the stone which the builders have rejected. That one is the cornerstone." (67) Jesus said, "If one who knows the all still feels a personal deficiency, he is completely deficient." (68) Jesus said, "Blessed are you when you are hated and persecuted. Wherever you have been persecuted they will find no place." (69) Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves. It is they who have truly come to know the father. Blessed are the hungry, for the belly of him who desires will be filled." (70) Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you will kill you." (71) Jesus said, "I shall destroy this house, and no one will be able to build it."
