Is anyone else worried about the striking deterioration in oral and written communication that has been developing over...

Being a college aged zoomer, all my peers communicate exclusively in facebook memes. I’m left in the cold autistic dark but the alternative is worse

There is nothing wrong with using “as per”

Not an argument.
KYS

But they could speak will, which is arguably better than being literate.

You supported your claim with nonsense, so I pointed out the nonsense, only a fool would argue against such a claim backed solely by hearsay.

You're a retard.
Finish high school, read some Plato, then lurk for a few years.

>weak argument
>even weaker rebuttal
>read the greeks
never fails.

I can just speak for Germany and here it's something that has been measured and confirmed by studies so no, you're probably not imagining it.

It's not something I worry about though since there are a million more immediate things to worry about and most of them are committed by people who have perfectly normal communication skills, they just suffer from other shortcomings.

I'm not denying what poetic splendors emerged since the end of the Renaissance, but merely noting that poetic diction, manners, forms, and cognitive acuity, have slowly slipped out of common usage, to the point where poets address an audience so small that half of them are resigned to addressing only eachother. What's worse is that academics are mostly oblivious to this decline in verbal musicality, and in popular culture the hostility to it borders upon a fanatical ideology: To furnish evidence for it, all one has to do is write anything laden with delicate or wavelike inflection, or in praise of Ariel aesthetics, post it on this board, and await replies that slander it as symptomatic of the sickest strands of vice. There is something almost terrifying about how wrong almost everyone gets it.

There is a reason Shakespeare put so many dick jokes in his plays.

It‘s a matter of the people you surround yourself with, not a sign of the times.

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I've been noticing it a lot on TV, mainly in interviews conducted on random people off the street and such.

So you think that if they had tv and random street interviews in ancient greek it wouldn‘t also have been an embarrassment?
There have always been and always will be people who don‘t care about articulation. Deal with it.

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There was a peak in universal education 20th century and it never was so good before or since.

well, do it anyway. I'll read your autofellatio posts user

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if there were evidence indicating a decline in eloquent/complex language being used, but it's also entirely possible that people just find your overwrought purple prose pretentious, user. Keep at it.

More people are educated now, but having to generalize education might have come at the cost of its quality. Isn't it a constant complaint that American public education sucks? Similar complaints are made about public education in my country. As a result you make sure that most of the population knows how to read but beyond that their education is defective. I'm not entirely convinced of this, I'm just trying to figure out what's happening.
It's not articulation that I'm concerned about, more like the choice in vocabulary and the lack of it and the lack of interest in precision when speaking.

My prose can get really purpose, but that's not what I'm trying to get at; this isn't me being frustrated that "people just don't get me", rather, that the way in which people communicate with each other, regardless of setting, has become extremely basic and that concerns me. I want to know whether or not I'm wrong, however.

purple*
Can't even blame autocorrector for this one; I'm just a retard.

You can call it whatever you want. My argument still stands.

>what's happening
Your zoomer brain is convinced it is living in special times. Watch "Hard to be a God" I beg you.

I know mate, I just thought I'd take the opportunity to critique prose I can't even see. Regardless, yeah I suspect that a decline in educational standards is one, but not the only, factor in the declining 'quality' of language. Social media in particular but technology more generally decreases the need to rely on conversation as a means of passing the time - groundbreaking insight from me there I know. I always assumed part of the reason people in earlier times were more eloquent (always assuming they actually were and we're not just being fooled by the close ties between literature and the ruling class of the day) is because they spent waaay more time just talking to each other than today.

Seems the only real way to counter that, assuming we rule out a return to an earlier stage of development (no thanks) would be with a corresponding, exponential increase in the quality of education, which doesn't seem to be something capitalism is particularly interested in offering.

have you read Amusing Ourselves to Death user?

Nope, is it any good?

You‘re aware that the quality of our education is at an all time high, right?
You‘re also aware that the works that have been preserved from the past are the ones worth preserving?
There has always been less prestigious forms of entertainment. It just wasn‘t preserved that broadly.

>You‘re aware that the quality of our education is at an all time high, right?
Can you prove it?

I thought it was fairly clear from my posts that I wasn't actually certain what I described was even an accurate representation of reality.

Overall, I'm pretty convinced that we're cleverer and more knowledgeable than any of our ancestors. What I'm not necessarily convinced of is the notion that our language - as in our literal dexterity with words - has enjoyed a similar upward curve, though again I think it's possible I'm wrong. I'm thoroughly aware of all the things you describe, but while I don't want to be an elitist or a pessimist, I also think it's obvious we should interrogate the idea that things are just getting better across all areas forever so we can keep improving. And if we find out we're wrong and things are getting better even in the areas I wonder about, hey that's great, it's good I'm wrong. I don't have any particular investment in the idea people are getting dumber and everything is getting worse.

My own conversational skill has deteriorated substantially since I left school and was no longer forced to regularly socialise and speak. Sometimes in conversations I speak at the level of a 10 year old nigger hoodrat.

It depends on your definition of quality education.
We know a lot more about how the human brain learns than we knew not even 10 years ago. Those new findings are slowly getting incorporated into our school systems, effectively increasing the quality of education.
You might argue that „it isn‘t the same anymore as when i went to school“. And that‘s true. It‘s also good that way. Because it would be a fucking shame if we knew better and kept doing the same mistakes. Many people also still keep to ancient ways of judging the quality of an education. Maybe it was impressive to be able to recite the abc during times where most people could‘t even go to school. Does that mean it‘s still impressive? No. It‘s now a requirement.
Maybe school systems nowadays don‘t focus on information retention that much anymore. Is that a bad thing? No. They focus more on teaching cross-linked independent thinking. Now, does that mean someone who can still recite all the relevant dates from wwI knows more about it than the person who understands the political and social dynamics that caused it? Most likely not. Yet some people still think that the person who can recite specific informations from memory is more intelligent. But that form of intelligence is outdated. We all can look up such informations on the tip of our fingers. It‘s irrelevant. We now can focus on the abilities AI can‘t yet fully imitate. Independent thought. And that‘s what education is steering towards. And i‘m really glad it does.
Good education shouldn‘t be based on what you think is relevant. Because that changes all the time. Good education is visionary and it‘s ok if not everyone can see that. I‘m not saying the current education system is perfect. Far from it. But that‘s why it needs to evolve, not stagnate or even worse, go back.

A bit. Degradation of various forms of expression and culture is an organic part of history, but I'm more annoyed with how proper oral and written communication is being demonized as "a tool to keep minorities down". It used to be that if you nitpicked someone's syntax or spelling, you'd just be called a grammar nazi, but now you'll get called a fucking racist and a white devil for expecting people to know proper verb conjugation.

People will claim that such improper use of language is merely a trend, but it's becoming cemented in our culture, and regardless of whether or not it's intentional or otherwise, future generations are imprinting it as "normal". Act like a fool and you'll soon find yourself surrounded by genuine fools who believe they are in good company, as they say.

Then what do you measure your feeling of language disintegration on?
Language has always evolved and changed. People have always thought that the youth has no class an culture anymore. That‘s not because it‘s true. It‘s because their culture differs from yours and that‘s what you‘re used to. What you‘re experiencing is (((getting older))). Assuming you‘re in your early 20‘s, not long ago you were IT. Now you aren‘t IT anymore and you look at those who took your place and shake your head in disgust because they dare to make things different that you. It will only get worse because the gap between what you deem respectable and what‘s IT grows relentlessly with every day passing. Don‘t worry, you‘re in good company. Even socrates said: „The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.“

If you asked his mother, i‘m 100% sure she‘d tell you that he did a lot of those exact things as a toddler/kid/teenager. His disgust with youth came from him getting out of touch with the current generation of young adults. They‘re not supposed to be the same as their preceding generations. They are supposed to bring with them a new and improved idea for this world. Ofc their preceding generations will try very hard to try to assimilate to their old ways. But thank god for rebellious teenagers who don‘t succumb to the demands of the olds to keep everything as we always did it. If they would, we‘d still be in the middle ages.

Is there anything that can be done about it?

>reading comprehension
He didn't say there was anything wrong with it. He says it's noticeable when uneducated dipshits pepper their otherwise basic vocabulary with phrases like that, which they obviously just heard on CSI or whatever.

It's how people work. Years ago, nobody used to fucking use the word "narrative" or "collusion", but ever since the 2016 election when those words got sandwiched into every braindead news media headline, everyone and their brother whips those two gems out in any instance they can, often incorrectly.

>So you think that if they had tv and random street interviews in ancient greek it wouldn‘t also have been an embarrassment?
Would it have been? Were you there? There were far fewer distractions available to the ancient Grecian, and even though records don't exist, historians believe most old-world Mediterranean cultures to have an impressively high rate of literacy. Even their fucking grafitti sounds like poetry compared to the kind of verbal diarrhea the average American spouts daily.

About what? You feeling out of touch with youth?
Yes, become one of those pitiable adults desperately trying to (((fit in))).

Don't worry, I've used the Socrates quote often enough myself with others. Ultimately my suspicion that people are less capable with their words is just that, a suspicion, based on the idea that we talk less these days, and when we do we talk differently. I don't consider it a massive issue really, I think even if there were some provable epidemic of unsophisticated language it could be addressed pretty simply, which itself obviously implies that simpler language is always worse and to be avoided, not something I consider universally true. It's just one of those things I sometimes catch my self wondering about I guess.

>Even their fucking grafitti sounds like poetry compared to the kind of verbal diarrhea the average American spouts daily
You might also think twice what you graffiti if you had to carve it into stone instead of spraying it in a matter of seconds.
Also, pic related. Very cultured and poetic indeed.

Here, have a little excerpt from the poetics of ancient greek graffiti:
>PHILIROS SPADO – “Phileros is a eunuch.”
APOLLINARIS, MEDICUS TITI IMPERATORIS HIC CACAVIT BENE – “Apollinaris, doctor to the emperor Titus, had a good crap here.”
OPPI, EMBOLIARI, FUR, FURUNCLE – “Oppius, you’re a clown, a thief, and a cheap crook.”
VIRGULA TERTIO SU: INDECENS ES – “Virgula to Teritus: You are a nasty boy.”
SUSPIRIUM PUELLAM CELADUS THRAEX – “Celadus makes the girls moan.”
ADMIROR, O PARIES, TE NON CECIDISSE, QUI TOT SCRIPTORIUM TAEDIA SUSTINEAS – “I wonder, O wall, that you have not yet collapsed, so many writers’ clichés do you bear.”
„Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men’s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity!”
“I screwed the barmaid.”
“Theophilus, don’t perform oral sex on girls against the city wall like a dog .”
“Atimetus got me pregnant.”
“Gaius Valerius Venustus, soldier of the 1st praetorian cohort, in the century of Rufus, screwer of women.”
“If anyone sits here, let him read this first of all: if anyone wants a screw, he should look for Attice; she costs 4 sestertii.”
“The one who buggers a fire burns his penis.”
“Handle with care.” (next to a picture of a penis)
“Let everyone one in love come and see. I want to break Venus’ ribs with clubs and cripple the goddess’ loins. If she can strike through my soft chest, then why can’t I smash her head with a club?”
“Myrtis, you do great blow jobs.”

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I‘ve worked with young kids before and what i observed was actually that most of them had a rather differentiated vocabulary. The only ones with issues where obviously those who had a migration background. Everyone else was impressively articulate for their age. Just anecdotal evidence that might ease your worries.

>It's always been this way.

>You don't have any data to back up your claims.

>most people are illiterate unlike me an anonymous poster on a migrant basket stealing forum

>Take a look around at all the science, we are actually advancing in leaps and bounds.

>This wouldn't be possible with primitive religious thought.

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Maybe I'm just hypocritically expecting everyone to talk like a Henry James character, who knows.

>is in university
>thinks he knows about writing and can map his experience onto the whole world
you're basically a child. end your life strongly implied

Might be. I mean, you can always try and find ways to increase the vocabulary of humanity. It just wouldn‘t be a good idea to get frustrated up about it.

My grandmother likes to say that things aren't worse nowadays, but that they used to be better.

Read Emile by Rousseau to understand why.

That's Latin, not Greek.

Yeah don't worry lol, I didn't watch Idiocracy and decide I'm gonna have to bring up my children in a mountain shack while I force them to recite Epictetus at gunpoint or anything. I'll just continue reading

Yeah I sorta sympathise I guess lol, I wonder if I'll dispense wisdom when I'm old or if I end up a babbling idiot.

Doesn‘t have any impact on my argument

>I’m left in the cold autistic dark but the alternative is worse
Slave morality: a study in ambition

>yOu JuS' jElLy n' ShEeEi'
>;-)
Keep pretending your solipsism outdoes your straw man of mine.

>OP points out the obvious
>the perpetually assblasted marxist trannies on Yea Forums screetch WOW HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE ANYTHING THE PROBLEM IS OBVIOUSLY YOU!!!!!
Its honestly to he expected at this point but jesus fucking christ this is a literature board. Why? Is it because niggers can't talk? Is that what all of this tryhard bullshit is about?

>ZOOMER PROLETARIAN DANCE REVOLUTION!!!!
BASED!!!!!

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I don't think people are concerned about niggers not being able to talk or even the claim that language is at a low level. People are concerned with the claim that it is 'deteriorating' which implies it was better before. As multiple posts have shown the common parlance has always been pretty low level.

Funny thing about this is that even video games, which are arguably a degraded form of game to begin with, have been hollowed out in terms of quality and skill.
If you thought COD was bad, it was nothing compared with Fortnite, which is designed all around low-skill behaviours and addiction, Collecting meaningless junk replaces all gameplay.

>inarticulate zoomers
think again seething millennishits
youtu.be/g4Q1jZ-LOT0

mega.nz/#!u5YDma6D!ikS_T08oVavpelgDoWcZ9rbCF2LUk1VffivQnVsxUaw

So pretty much this.

>Burger schools

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i generally agree with what the kid is saying but for some reason the culture of it makes me cringe. this is probably because i'm socially retarded but i can never imagine standing in front of a group of people less rich/less privileged than me and talking to them about how sorry i am for it. it's probably a good thing that equality and black plight is being taught in schools but fucking hell can we do away with the self-hatred? i don't know, it's probably just my intense social retardation speaking.

Yes it does; you claimed ancient Greek graffiti sucked and then provided Latin examples.
>English literature is vulgar and not funny, take for example that scene from Don Quixote in which Sancho takes a dump in front of Don Quixote
That's basically what your example comes to; the proof you used to sustain your argument doesn't hold up.

Yeah what this user said, the kid's points are decent, but the unmistakable air of self-flagellation gives it a real sense of white paternalism, as opposed to the kind of solidarity you'd imagine he had in mind at the time. He'd do better to read about socialism rather than spouting liberal shit about equal opportunity and women CEO's. Hopefully he improves with time, and learns to take a more nuanced view of his (i.e. 'white') culture but looking at the state of the US that's a 50/50

Seems the flair of British English is also in decline, you don’t hear zoomers using comfy turns of phrase “cobblers” in the UK anymore.

We say bollocks now

It's a product of overstimuation. Communication has become so frequent, ubiquitous, and required from everyone that it's just simpler to shortcut small talk with repeated banal phrases to get your meaning across and move on. Nobody sits down to draft a letter and convey real meaning or emotion because it's the only thing you might hear from someone for weeks or months.

Uncle Ted was crazy like a fox.

His points are not decent.
And are you fags not repulsed by who you have so much in common with?

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nah man fast lane that shit to telepathy

Here's a neat trick. Next time you hear someone using a lot of this stuff, just act confused and ask them what they mean. Force them to explain themselves through sincere curiosity. Eventually, they will start getting really flustered and not really know why.

is this bait? do you think ancient greeks lived in classical italy?

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>poets address an audience so small that half of them are resigned to addressing only eachother

Most poets nowadays are lyricists. Singer/songwriters and rappers write some amazing poetry and tons of people appreciate it.

Some of it is shit too but it is poetry.

I mean his points basically came down to 'racism exists and I feel bad about it'

I think half of that statement is useful. Everything else, including your sad attempt at insult, is just faggotry.

>racism
yikes

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Some stuff is racist, yeah who knew. Go crywank to Evola and his weird nigger sperm fetish.

seething

3/4 of that is not "privilege" it's just a failure to be cowed and brainwashed. foh with that gay shit, nigga

projection

haha
oral

>projecting this hard
please tell me your at least not american

Don't worry user, I'm European, a good aryan, refuse to watch the degeneracy known as anime, etc. etc.

>so much in common with
The majority of people are not racists and see racism as a bad thing. Oppression of black people definitely exists and is a problem to deal with. However the way in which the kid went about expressing it -- and a lot of lefties are like this -- was gigacringe.

>Oppression of black people definitely exists
How?
>and is a problem to deal with
So what should we do?

>majority of people are not racists
Maybe not openly

Ooof, same OP. Big mood. Like I feel like I can't even write decent sentences anymore bro.

ease of access to information has never been easier, and some types of information is much quicker and easier to absorb than others. Now tell me how many new words and phrases do you hear in typical trash coming from holywood, all the nigger expletives excluded?

>replies that slander it as symptomatic of the sickest strands of vice
this was very nice to read, thank you user

Brevity is the soul of wit or whatever

>How?
Disproportionate force used on black people by police, the fact that black people get longer sentences than white people for identical crimes, the fact that you are more likely to be rejected for a job just because you have a black name, black kids being arrested more for the possession of weed despite the fact that white and black people smoke weed at the same rate, etc.
>So what should we do?
I don't really know the solution. It would have to be a huge cultural change, like how Italians and Irish were assimilated into the culture (which rendered their once disproportionate crime rates negligible). I'd say adopting progressive policies that work toward equality is a good start. Gun control, equal education, counselling for fatherless boys, demotion of 'gang culture' and rap music, promotion of real black music like jazz and soul, more depictions of black people in media that don't show them as thugs and gangsters. I'm just going off the top of my head; I'm sure a million books and articles have been written by people who have a better solution than me.

>the way all the white girls burst into applause and the one black guy in the audience politely gives two claps and goes back to looking uncomfortable
I'm convinced that all this privilege awareness is just a way for wealthy white people in America to constantly and shamelessly shoehorn their status into every conversation.
Of course, there's a lot of annoying WOCs, fags, and coons on American campuses that also take advantage of it to monopolize social capital through the exclusion of the Big Other, and they're just as contemptible.
What I don't understand is how such an obviously patronizing and self-defacing elite, who don't even recognize their own legitimacy, is able to stay in control of such a country: I can only assume it has to do with the removal of most social relations from power under capitalism, allowing the upper echelons to grow more and more insufferable without corrective action against them-- it can't last for that much longer though.

Lyrics aren't poetry. Rap is doggerel with pace.

>Disproportionate force used on black people by police, the fact that black people get longer sentences than white people for identical crimes, the fact that you are more likely to be rejected for a job just because you have a black name, black kids being arrested more for the possession of weed despite the fact that white and black people smoke weed at the same rate, etc.
Okay buddy slow down. What are you talking about? Have you got any evidence for these conspiracy theories at all?
>I don't really know the solution.
Okay so fuck off
>It would have to be a huge cultural change
Why?
>Gun control, equal education, counselling for fatherless boys, demotion of 'gang culture' and rap music, promotion of real black music like jazz and soul
Most of the worst areas for blacks and crime have extremely strict gun control. Democrats really advocate for blacks and for gun control. The rest of what you're proposing for is some lost generation, agency-denying nonsense. You sound like a fascist.

>Disproportionate force used on black people by police
Because of their behavior. Being combative over simple questions and resisting arrest/detainment escalates things quickly.
>the fact that black people get longer sentences than white people for identical crimes
Because blacks have priors. Look at the rate of recidivism. They don't learn and judges/juries sentence them for longer periods of time because of it.
>the fact that you are more likely to be rejected for a job just because you have a black name,
Not in this day and age and certainly not with companies that actually have HR departments. And you're more likely to get a scholarship and get into college if you're black have at least two brain cells to rub together. Thank Affirmative Action.
>black kids being arrested more for the possession of weed despite the fact that white and black people smoke weed at the same rate, etc.
Again this has to do with behavior. Blacks ride around smoking weed in cars with no registration with the windows down blaring rap music because they have to "act hard" 24/7/265 and get pulled over and are still fucking perplexed when caught with weed. White kids drive that shit straight home and smoke it in their own garage quietly.

Apples and oranges.

You must be joking, if blacks acted like civilized people police would stop thep. Nowadays go outside and almost certainly the first black you will on the street will be dressed up like some ganster rapper with pants down to his knees. It no wonder that they contantly stopped.

Regarding drugs, yes its a problem, police should do more to stop spread of drugs within white population, whites in drug dealing use should get maximum prison sentences.

seething

One thing I will say in defence of our own is that who the fuck has the time to read, write, sit and think, etc. anymore?

I like to read but I'm lucky if I have the mental energy after work to get any done.

Same but its literally because we're here. Yea Forums is a curse

>It's not something I worry about though since there are a million more immediate things to worry about
This is far from some silly detail, it's representative of the general intellectual degradation. When your communication is limited, your comprehension of the world is as well. I can't recall the source right now, but there was a study about how the limited nature of languages around Nigeria impaired the cognitive development of locals. The BBC has pages in "nigerian english" which make it obvious how much language can limit thought, give it a read.

>what is context
Look at who composed the intended audience then vs now, big brains.

African genes and their cultural influences.

>There have always been and always will be people who don‘t care about articulation
I hate this kind of reductionist argument so damn much. Suck a dick and proceed to kys

>educated
In reality, people are simply conditioned to function in the workplace, education in its real sense, that of making you a person capable of autonomous thought, is all but lost in most places. Even elite institutions tend to focus on tests such as the SATs rather than education for its own sake. I'm of the opinion that this isn't possible on a mass scale anyway unless you already have a student body of a selected background.

Please stop trying to argue that racism exists and is bad on Yea Forums and do anything else with your time. For your own sake.

What kind of serious linguist would actually argue for linguistic determinism in the 21st century lmfao. Citations please. Probably some evo-psych racist blowhard trying to get some headlines.

>western society starts adopting black culture the more it deteriorates
my oh my, what a funny coincidence

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That kid is Jewish

Have you ever played Fortnite? Looking past the fact that the player base is largely children, smoothly combining building mechanics into a battle royale shooter was pretty innovative considering how stale shooters have become. It's much harder to play than COD.