This is a terrible mindset to have. Asking questions is how we get the thought provoking, deep and thematically substantive stories.
Berating the people who ask those questions is missing the point of being an entertainer.
This is a terrible mindset to have. Asking questions is how we get the thought provoking...
This is a terrible mindset to have. Asking questions is how we get the thought provoking, deep and thematically substantive stories.
Scottish idiot doesn't even know about Harold
What a fucking casual!
Is this why silver age Marvel sometimes had supplemental material explaining how things worked, Grant?
>Asking questions is how we get the thought provoking, deep and thematically substantive stories.
Asking interesting questions about life, emotions, morality, existence. Not moronic, pointless ones like 'how does Superman fly'.
Do you have any idea how inquisitive kids can be? When I read stories I often wanted a background for why characters could do the things they could.
>how does Superman fly
He's an alien, and under a yellow sun he gains super powers. Under a red sun he would be normal like we are.
This is what he is talking about. You don't ask why crabs can sing in the little mermaid for the same reason you don't ask why a Spider bite made Peter stick to walls, it's a made up story it's just what happens. Obviously eye beams make no sense and obviously a tiny arc reactor on your chest is ridiculous who gives a shit?
Oh look this thread again.
I’ll make this easy.
The questions a writer should be posing and exploring are not pedantic little nitpicks. Writers should be asking interpersonal questions and exploring relationships and cause and effect. Not menial details that don’t progress by plot and only serve as trivia answers for shit sack nerds who don’t read stories to post on Instagram “facts” pages.
Ok but how does he fly? That is not how the sun works
>Having lore and explanation for things is... le bad!!
This is why nobody respects your capeshit
"Who pumps the tires" is kind of a good question, though. All stories are just strings of lies. A good story teller answers the questions with new lies. They don't always have to be the most convincing lies so long as they're fun.
"Fuck you, get out, it's all lies" isn't a very fun answer.
What I'm saying is that it's a missed opportunity for a story, or at least a fun add-on. Who pumps the tires? Ah, well Batman has a special automated platform that fixes up the Batmobile like a pit crew. Cool, eh? Who built that? Why, Wayne Corp has an automobile division, you know.
Easy, fun, in the spirit.
Or if you want, invent a character who pumps the tires and make up an entire story about Bat Dwayne, the guy who pumps the tires, and that's all he does, and he doesn't ask questions.
Like I said before, berating the people asking those questions is missing the point of being an entertainer
>wasting time in your narrative to build made up physics that don't matter thematically is... le good!
>you don't ask why a Spider bite made Peter stick to walls
Because the spider was radioactive and transferred some of its natural abilities onto Peter when it bit him.
>It transfered a spiders abilities to him when it bit him
Woah dude that took so long to come up with
it's a great mindset that baits autists though
If you craft a story, you need explanations for things, otherwise the audience can believe that any sort of contrivance is possible and the entire thing falls apart.
Ok but how? That's like saying Alfred pumps the tires in the Batcave like how? How does the Sun actually make Superman fly? Makes no sense
The yellow sun triggers these abilities because it's different from a red sun that his species is used to.
Radioactivity unravels your DNA, it unraveled the spider's DNA enough to transfer some of the building blocks into Peter, now he's Spider-Man.
How does that make someone fly though? He grows like propellers in his feet or something?
>who pumps the tiers?
Can we just say Batman still has a mute hunchback living in the Batcave who takes care of all that?
He defies gravity with with his anti gravity.
Why not just say all the tires were replaced with wheels of super hard plastic?
Morrison is just outlining the self-evident fact that each story comes implicit with its own logic and set of rules, which often aren't those of the real world. Kids tend to just roll with it.
If you're going to take issue with the logic of a story, it should be in a way that matters for what the story's trying to do. Providing a detailed explanation to the question of "how does he shot laser" would make no difference to 99.999% of stories featuring Superman, but asking whether Superman would really make a certain decision, or whether he did the right thing in a situation, how other characters would react etc., significantly affects the majority of them. We get thought-provoking and interesting stories by exploring how people relate to themselves, each other and the world, and the assumptions writers might have made in that regard.
The batmobile's tyres one is an interesting example, because it depends on what interpretation of Batman we're talking about. More realism-oriented Batman stories might actually have genuine questions to answer regarding who puts the labor into maintaining Bruce's ridiculous equipment. But it obviously doesn't matter to the more zany and abstract versions that will have been an influence on Morrison.
You need a cohesive world to build a narrative around.
This reminds of Dogma, specifically the begging. The mc talking to her friend when the MC believes God is dead and her friend gives her advice from a guy she dated. MC mentioning she could've babysat in highschool.
>Religion is like a cup of water. When you're little the cup is easy to fill. As you get older the cup needs more and more water to be filled.
Basically as a child you can watch a fictional movie and move on. As an adult while you accept the absurdness of a fictional movie you still want to know what are the rules that govern the fictional world.
>Ex star wars
>Intellectualism and asking questions is le bad!
Moore is right to be cynical.
Comics aren't literature, art or even works meant to make the reader grow or reflect on. They're soulless products, the fictional equivalent of doritos or a fat burger. Mass produced, vapid, designed by a marketing committee and not a storyteller. That they're trying to dress up as 'adult' doesn't make them actually mature or have anything more to say. They're just ordered by big companies and spewed out on assembly lines of workers like worthless trash.
Morrison is right to be dismissive of adults who want to overanalyze children's entertainment.
This has been copypasta’d in these copypasta threads over and over.
Plot is needed for a story. Explanations are also needed for a story.
Why doesn't this logic apply to adult media as well? After all, both are fiction at the end of the day. Why not just consume and not ask questions?
>Not moronic, pointless ones like 'how does Superman fly'.
But thats actually an important question, because its relevant to pretty much every Superman story. How does he fly? What mechanism enables that? What might *interrupt* said mechanism, and thus put Superman at a disadvantage or in danger?
If he flies by manipulating gravity, then anyone else with gravity powers potentially robs him of flight for a fight. Etc.
Its pretty dumb to say that these questions about how powers work don't matter when the entire shonen battle genre exists, which is known for setting rules for how powers work specifically so you can have rock-paper-scissors and exploitations and subversions of those rules for the purpose of tension, escalation, and payoff. Thinking you are somehow better off without these options and opportunities is just huffing your own farts and denying yourself a a bunch of extra tools in your toolbox. Or, more likely, just being lazy because you can't trust yourself to be held to any kind of standard and resent being asked to.
Tolkien carefully crafts a fantasy world of myths and legends, creates his own languages, detailed historical and geographical accounts.
Aragorn's family tree alone goes back 18 generations, and answers any question the reader might have.
>Morrison: Imagine wasting your time with all of that.
And some people think Morrison is a good writer...
>Kids tend to just roll with it.
Kids don't understand the plot of Honey I Shrunk the Kids, but watch it 50 times anyway because its their favorite movie for about 2 weeks. Holding up kids failure to have critical thinking skills is the same ad admitting that your story isn't MEANT for anyone with a developed brain.
>stop asking questions and enjoy the fiction
I feel like this attitude has been expressed over a lot more than just comic books.
It doesn't apply anywhere, it's retarded. Good stories have good foundations. Even children's books like the Golden Compass or Narnia have incredibly intricate lore.
Morrison is confusing his audience for 4 year-olds reading Peppa Pig picture books.
>it unraveled the spider's DNA enough to transfer some of the building blocks into Peter
And this is just made-up fantasy logic invented for the purposes of the story. Case in point. Asking "why the fuck would radioactivity allow ability transfer like that, DNA doesn't work that way, blah bah" would be a waste of time.
Not surprising. Its the writers equivalent of when artists say "Thats just my style!" Its a plaintive cry to the audience that you're not SUPPOSED to offer criticism, you are just supposed to enjoy what they made for you in its current form and give them validation for their work.
lmao, the guy who wrote this has NEVER been near children, and that's a good thing.
This is exactly why manga is winning.
The radioactive spider origin was from a time when most people didn't know how radiation worked, and thus it was an appropriately magical answer. You'll notice that more recent versions of Spider-mans origin story have made it a 'genetically engineered spider' or something similar, updating the science behind it to maintain the sense of semi-plausibility.
Until, that it is, Marvel just said "Fuck it, we have too many characters with radiation-themed powers or origins, in 616 radiation is literally magic it doesn't work like it does in the real world. There, done."
Kids believe inna lot of unteal stuff.
Even adults do especialy if said trope is repeated by generations. Like skunk stink cloud or cat needing cow milk in diet
Tolkien was writing a series of fantasy novels about characters making journeys across a vast world. The history, culture and geography of that world is essential to the way the story plays out and its immersive impact. The way his story works necessitates the construction of a detailed lore. Same goes for other novel examples people have brought up ITT.
Every story has its own mechanics. Comics about costumed men beating each other up do not require a detailed understanding of how his eyes generate the laser beams. It's an insane misreading of Morrison's quote to think he believes no story should have any details written into it whatsoever
>mofo is about to tell me how Superman going from pulling entire solar systems with chains in the Silver Age to fighting against pollution with words today is an allegory of the rise and fall of communism in Angola
Morrison's Batman is the opposite of zany and abstract. He even explicitly retconned a huge chunk of Batman's Silver Age adventures to be a hallucination by Bruce. It's pretty much a love letter to the highly reactionary Bronze Age under O'Neil.
4 year olds ask an insane number of questions about the most trivial and inane stuff because they're trying to make sense of the world. Just yesterday I had a 4 year old ask me what my name was, then immediately followed it up by asking why I was named that. A charitable takeaway from Morrison's statement is to quit getting hung up on trivialities that aren't relevant to the story at hand, a more accurate takeaway is that Grant has no experience dealing with children.
that seems like the type of question a kid would ask to be honest, and if they don't it's because they haven't though about it, not that they understand it's all a story and that only the themes matter
Righteous quints of truth. is on suicide watch
Morrison trying to shame the people pointing out his plot holes.
> Tolkien was writing a series of fantasy novels about characters making journeys across a vast world. The history, culture and geography of that world is essential to the way the story plays out and its immersive impact. The way his story works necessitates the construction of a detailed lore.
Tolkein is a special case when it comes to worldbuilding, and should be recognized as such. His priorities and methodology have basically nothing in common with any other fantasy writer. You, for reasons that are natural, assume that Tolkein had a fantasy epic in mind and filled in the rest of the world to serve as a setting for that epic. This is not true.
The very first thing that Tolkein made that was connected to middle Earth was a language: elvish. He studied languages, and wanted to make his own. But a language doesn't exist in a vacuum, the meanings and context of words is influenced by the people speaking it and their history and culture. So to make the language of Elvish, he also had to make Elves, as well as having a detailed history of those elves (major events of which impacted the language through reference, metaphor, and cultural drift) and those elves obviously had to live somewhere, and have neighbors, and have interactions and relationships with those neighbors, and so on. Everything about middle Earth ripples outward from the language and how it affects the elves, and then that same level of detail was likewise being considered for each new place and faction introduced in the previous step.
The Lord of the Rings was never the end goal. It was just deemed the best way to convey this world he had already created to an audience, and show off as much of his world and work as possible by having a group of people have a good excuse to travel around and visit a lot of significant places important to the history of the world.
While extremely impressive work, expecting any other writer to approach worldbuilding from the same way would be insane.
>we get the thought provoking, deep and thematically substantive stories
which ruined superhero comics
Thank you for saying that your superhero comics are pulp trash
Rich coming from the man who believes in magic IRL
Agreed. I babysat for years and little children's most frequent words are "Why" snd "How." Morrison is dead wrong.
Not asking questions like that is missing one of the great joys of reading any kind of fiction, It show a dead spot in intellectual curiosity,.
Lorefags are beneath contempt. Imagine thinking you're doing anything of value autistically obsessing over the intricacies of a fictional universe. Thank god none of you are talented enough to write for a living.
Or y'know for could figure it out, make plot points about it and tie it into the world building like anime and manga can do. I mean nothing in JoJo makes any fucking sense until they explain it in universe and then it ties together like some surreal detective novel.
Tolkien and several other fantasy writers exist.
And? They're hacks.
Great fiction demands more from its writers and its readers. Children's fiction shouldn't talk down to them, but it doesn't need to be plausible either.
Nothing thought provoking about shitty nerd arguments.
>Rich coming from the man who believes in magic IRL
Where did Gandalf buy his pipe?
Why is this a binary all of sudden? Asking a few questions is not the same as demanding everything be dissected
What is Aragorn's tax policy?