ITT: Character Assassination

Remember when Moira wasn't actually a self hating mutie who wanted to cure all mutants and then became a sentinel who wears people's skin so she could kill them all instead?

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more moira shenanigans

In Free Comic Book Day: Avengers/X-Men, launching the Avengers Vs X-Men Vs Eternals event, that sees the Eternals set to wipe out all mutants as Deviants, it seems that Moira Mactaggert may be doing that by herself.

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Revisiting old Avengers Vs X-Men battles, and seeing how they could have played out a little more permanently. She has seen and lived ten separate timelines of course, stretching in at least one case, a thousand years into the future.

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With the death of Avengers at the hands of an X-Men… and vice versa.

that's all

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>consistently one of the funniest characters in Giffen's justice league
>but what if he was secretly eeeeevill all along? Wouldn't that be an epic twist?
Geoff Johns makes it really hard to defend Geoff Johns sometimes.

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that was Rucka though you fucking idiot.

I just want to say fuck you Marvel for combining your two most autistic, hateful, self inserting fanbases with this up coming event

countdown to infinite crisis was Johns and Rucka.

Do Eternals fans self-insert?

No I'm talking that Dark Web shit, Spiderfags and X-fags are insufferable

I dunno how to put this, but the difference between Kirby's Darkseid and current Darkseid is fucking rage inducing for me.
Old Darkseid:
>Would boast about how strong he is and how he's the coolest guy ever to induce fear
>Main enemy was Orion, his own son who was destined to kill him
>Represents absolute tyranny
>Would do shit like be afraid of Yuga Khan or laugh at being unable to stop a wedding
>All of his claims are 100% true
>Main enemy is Superman/the Justice League because ???
>Instead of being tyranny given physical form, he's literally evil itself now

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Black cat becoming an Edgelord crime Lord for like five years I think. It tends to happen to a lot of normally professional criminals to suddenly become Edgelords for some reason but denl gets completely forgotten about quickly but it stayed with black cat for a while

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She didn't want to kill mutes, at least before she got ousted from krakoa by Destiny, Mystique, and company. She wanted them to be able to join the singularity of the phalanx like humans were.

If I had a nickel for a Marvel character recently turned evil for zero fucking reason that's involved in Krakoa's bullshit, I'd have two nickels.
Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice, right?

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>We want to a bigger version of the time Snapper Carl betrayed the Justice League
>Well, who was the last civvies to be associated with them?
>Maxwell Lord? Oh, well let's say he was a villain, then.

I'm 100% willing to beleive they originally wanted it to BE Snapper Carl, but knew no one would remember who the fuck that is.

oh carol

Wait, did Ben turn evil? WHY?

Does anyone have the page were all the Avengers are talking about how they absolutely hate Spider-Man and Cap admits that he does too, and is only nice to him because it's the polite thing to do?

Peter wouldn't put on a memory trading hat Ben got from the Beyond corp in the middle of their raid on said Beyond corp so Ben got pissy and fell into some goop

All heroes do these days is die. Again, and again, and again. It's macabre, sick, the polar inversion of what a superhero is.

I fucking hate Marvel. Isn't Spidercide still in a freezer somewhere? Just thaw him out if you want an evil Peter Parker.

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nick lowe

I win this thread.

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that was a bad twist, but funny enough it didn't make a dent in Felicia's massive popularity though

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you're already dead

>Reading the last fifteen years of Spiderman comics

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>has a mental breakdown and hits his wife
>for this he gets his soul vored and cucked by tony
hank didn't deserve it at all

That was supposed to look like an accident that's not cowed assassination. Just bad artistry making the image portray something it's not supposed to.


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Since when is Moira a fucking terminator?!

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Friendly reminder that Jan encouraged his mental breakdown so she could marry him; a breakdown that was literally exacerbated because she had always mocked him for being the weakest member of the team.

To be fair, you have to have a character in order for it be assassinated.

Most people understood that Hank was just going crazy in this story. It wasn't until some writer in the 90s got really mad at the fact that Jan had forgiven Hank for this that it started getting portrayed as "Hank Pym loved to beat his wife." It doesn't help that that because his entire personality in The Ultimates.

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Isn't everyone besides Spider-Man characters a edgelord incarnation of the usual selves in the Ultimate Universe?

current peter parker is worse than the ultimate one

Yeah. "Modernized" they call it. Make everyone unlikable and crazy. Its modern, see?

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It was supposed to be Loren Jupiter, a old Teen Titans character. Johns was writing Teen Titans, and his pseudo-daughter Lilith had died at the end of the run before him. With his daughter dead, he was supposed to go all "anti-hero" like Lord did.
According to Rucka, Didio said that no one would know who the fuck Loren Jupiter is, so use Max Lord instead. Rucka said "isn't Lord a cyborg now?" and Didio said "no one remembers that, so ignore it."

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Storm going from a dark-skinned, Caucasian, blue-eyed, Eastern African to a generic Amerinegress.

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That explains a lot about how teflon Giffen was all the way into Rebirth

It was recompense

why is Ben such a fan favorite, he just existed for two years in what is generally considered the messiest part of spiderman history.

That's the Mark Millar Way!

Keep crying white boy

Essentially, that was Marvel's way of making them "more realistic". So, we got stuff like
>The Hulk rapes people
>Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch really DO fuck each other
>Mr. Fantastic is a socially inept autistic who makes people drink urine without telling them

>>Mr. Fantastic is a socially inept autistic who makes people drink urine without telling them

When did this happen?

The other two were Mark Millar and that's no surprise

She was basically a literal who so I wouldn't really say it was much of an assassination.

>Bobby, you're gay.

He was around for 4 years during one of the hottest (mostly for the wrong reasons) times in comics and had two of the best alternate Spider-Man outfits

Don't discount how far that goes

I thought adamanitum wasn’t magnetic

I’ve seen this exact post on twitter today.
DeMatteis bringing his A-game when writing Ben. Also, late Clone Saga with giddy soon-to-be dad Peter and Ben as a proud uncle/godfather is just plain comfy.

But powerwankers would claim Darkseid is a multiversal being and one of the most powerful beings in existence!

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Ah, a Bendis page. That explains it.

Is there like a proper reading order checklist for the whole Moira/Krakoa storyline? I followed it for a while at first, but I kinda lost interest because keeping track of a dozen titles that constantly intersect and cross-over was too much effort for me to give a fuck.

Reminds me of this

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hox/pox, inferno, x lives/deaths is the list i've seen

>Instead of being tyranny given physical form, he's literally evil itself now
I don't know, is one really better then the other ?

>I once saw someone distill water from pee in a movie, I wonder if my advanced science could replicate this astonishing feat!
Why are literal retards allowed to publish comic books?

Cap's shield is Vibranium-Steel alloy, also known as "proto-Adamantium", since all Adamantium variants were attempts to replicate it.

Could Reed replicate the Dragon Balls and create a wish granting machine?

I could only find this.

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I think a big point was to "lessen" the level of super science to a more "believable" level since all the characters are being reintroduced. 616 Reed would absolutely have a pill or laser that turns pee into water by making it go back through time before it became pee and no one would bat an eye. So Ultimate Reed has to just now be figuring out how to do something like that.

Yeah but like I said there's a ton of intersecting story arcs and X-related titles.

HoX/PoX, X-Men, Immortal X-Men, X-Men Red, X-Force, X-Factor, Excalibur, New Mutants, Hellions, Marauders, Wolverine, Cable, X of Swords, Inferno, Legion of X, Knights of X, Destiny of X, the list just goes on and on.


Knowing Reed, he'd just create a platform that dials into a dimension where the wish is already a reality and let you visit it.

That was the plot of the Dark Ultimates arc.

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It's not even about regular science vs "magical" super-science.

It's about the smartest man in the world wondering if it's possible to recreate a high school junior level chemistry experiment.

but you said moira and those titles deal with her storyline

only took her 45 years

Jesus, what would compel someone to write a page this mean-spirited?
Spider-Man being kinda irritating to others with all his jokes is fair enough, but it's a whole other thing to just make them say "no everyone secretly hates you and even Captain America, paragon of virtue, cheerfully admits he just ignores you most of the time"


I said Moira and Krakoa (since Krakoa is her idea to begin with if I understand correctly) and all X-related titles tie into the Krakoa storyline in some fashion. And as I mentioned they also constantly cross over into eachother which makes them harder to read in a vacuum.

every single x men academy x char except pixie
bendis fucking x23 in the ass
bendis fucking frost in the ass
fucking bendis

But she wasen't an edgelord, she was just a crime lord

Nostalgia and racism. People now think Ben as the alternative to Peter was cool and would much rather it be him than Miles because Miles is much harder to get rid of for social political reasons.

used to be:
-written as intelligent with over the top vocabulary bubbles in the 90s
-cartoon version is wholesome team player, saves wolverine and weapon x subjects from massive explosion with practical solutions, and is willing to use logic and reason with Forge and villains to save the planet from phalanx when most other x-men would have irrationally refused to cooperate
-will totally take the role of miss frizzle for field trips
-has a sense of humor and is one of the few people who is not annoyed by Deadpool

then the bullshit and is now:
-writers try to make him gay out of nowhere in the mid 2000s, they don't even bring up evidence like his bromance with wonder man so it falls flat
-writers give him reverse plot armor in endangered species, he can't help mutant in any timeline
-spends years trying to cure legacy virus with moira mactaggert, but doesn't succeed
-does what cyclops asks of him and makes a bomb to be sent through time
-does what captain america and the avengers and makes a bomb that destroys an alternate universe
-has the same morals as nightcrawler and is against death squad shenanigans, but is an asshole because reasons
-nightcrawler chides him in uncanny 600 even though he never confronted cyclops about death squad shenanigans
-is forced by writers to grab younger versions of x-men to sell shitty O5 comics, everyone points a finger at him even though there was a vote to keep the younger versions around anyway
-was going to die if he didn't travel in time and get saved by a younger version of himself
-asked Uatu the watcher for help, but then later bendis has the watcher creep in his bedroom to gaslight and verbally abuse him, even though watcher is a hypocrite and has interfered, is literally interfering by doing stupid verbal abuse
-does death squad shit but because he's not cyclops gets shit for it
-not on the counsel of krakoa, upstaged by war criminals and human rights violators like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, Cassandra Nova

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i think that there are trades that collect a bunch of titles together, those might be what you're looking for

ben always had fans. they just thought clone saga had shit pacing (it had)

There is a distinct conceptual difference.

It's a Hickman plot, so only two or three plotlines actually make up the main story.

Slott or someone similar who just assumes "Peter is a piece of shit who ruins everyone's lives". I think the woman giving him shit is fucking X-23, which doesn't even sound like something she'd say.

-is accused of being race traitor by x-men (even when being told what the situation is in the first place by beast) by trying to stop a race war between mutants and inhumans
-tries to find a cure for terrigen mists, but it's just given to moon girl by the writers with no effort

change != character assasinations

desu beasts' fall to cyninism is one of the most organic developments, like 15 years in the making.

In this one thing at least, the powerwankers aren't to blame. That's pretty much exactly what the current version of Darkseid is.