Yeah, I know there were threads about this topic before and there are several opinions about the lower sales in comics and manga becoming a juggernaut in the west.
But what was the real reason it ended like this?
The losing war of Comics vs Manga
Yeah, I know there were threads about this topic before and there are several opinions about the lower sales in comics and manga becoming a juggernaut in the west.
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>Yeah, I know there were threads about this topic before
so why make another one
>so why make another one
because there was no real concensus and a bunch of anons just said it was because of wokeism, but the declining sales were already before the woke shit infected the comic industry according to comic revenue in the past decade.
Who would have the best sex?!?!? Put your answers in the replies NOW, which rabbit sucks their man's huge carnivore penis the fastest? PUT YOUR VOTES IN THE REPLIES NOW
manga isnt limited to 120 pages about superheroes
Fuck off and die. We don't need another one of these cancerous threads.
People figure finding an entry point is too much effort - remember, people are lazy, they don't want to have to read a bunch of articles or forum posts about correct reading order when they're thinking of casually getting into a character because he/she appeared in a movie or videogame they liked. Also pricing's a big one. Yeah, expensive premium hardcovers are a thing in both worlds, but when you're comparing most trades compared to tankobons, the latter is much more appealing price to content-wise.
Manga is comics.
However it's probably the same reason stuff like Harry Potter is dunking on every other book in the industry to this day. Coupled with retarded western publishers, Marvel got handed a golden bag on multiple occasions by the MCU and for some reason fumbled it every time, not one good Iron-Man book in the last decade tells you everything you need to know about Marvel. Even right now there is still a lot of Spider-Man hype, fans are literally begging to get into comics, there is a new number run coming out (almost 6 months after the fucking movie), old artist returning causing more hype and they still managed to fuck it up and turn everyone away before the run even starts
>what was the real reason it ended like this?
(You) got cocky, bro.
Chaykin was right.
It's been discussed before, its mostly due to poor distribution. Anyone that says le wokism is a moron.
price prevents new readers and the fans have less Charisma than manga fans(idk how the bar is low)
Because manga is better
Comics are pretty much shit in general
1) price - comic books thrived back in the day when paperbacks only cost pocket change. But now you can get a full 200 page volume of manga for the price of a 20 page issue of spiderman. It's a financial no brainer.
2) accessibility - Manga story telling is very linear. Barring spin-offs or sequel series, the vast majority of manga start at chapter 1 book 1, with no prior knowledge needed. The same can't be said for multiverse/timeline/reboot heavy cape comics which keep having both no continuity and heavy continuity at the same time.
3) variety - If you want to get into comics but don't like superheroes, you're pretty shit out of luck. Sure there are graphic novels that branch out from that mold more, but those aren't marketed as heavily and are thus more niche. Besides, a lot of them are just cribbing off of manga anyway, and may become marketed as such regardless. Meanwhile, if you want to get into manga but aren't a fan of shonen, there are still so many other genres to choose from. Romance, mystery, adventure, athletics, slice of life, surreal, if you have a hobby or niche interest there is bound to be a manga that covers it.
Right about what?
Not everybody knows everything about comics my man.
And I actually know a fair amount
This sums it up. Manga is cheap, accessible and disposable. It's not about having the nicest printing or perfect art it's about getting content out as quickly as possible. That industry is like Marvel's old bullpen on a larger scale.
Also the increase in gays and trannies in the west probably has a lot to do with the sales increase
This video answer part of your questions
Another reason is woke culture just made it worse because the mentally ill focused on making a product for other mentally ill people.
who will buy a new comic for 4$ when two pages relegated for stupid shit like this and not to mention cuckfetish and wokeism in recent years
Even the men in manga are sexy girls. In western comics the gays are disgusting degenerates
the high selling manga is usually dog shit
I stopped following Marvel and DC in 2016 and I'm having trouble following the continuity/overall plot. And I used to edit their wikias. I can't imagine someone who only really knows the MCU trying to do a deepdive.
Trips of truth
It leads to a lot of creative battles and the cream rises to the top, the only real flaw with manga or shonenshit is that they just focus on getting a gimmick and good cliffhangers to make sure their story gets picked up kind of like old formulaic tv shows but there is rarely an ending in sight so most of it ends on a disappointing whimper and is forgotten instead of going out with a bang.
Also good cartoons is one of the biggest reasons for it's popularity, every kid watching anime always thought about how cool it would be if the west made shows like this about their comics but they never did for some reason. Even now after the popularity of things like Dragon Ball, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon and even Avatar the last Airbender the most we are doing for kid's TV is rebooting Avatar in 3 different ways
It's partially because of lazy wokeism though
Kill yourself Yea Forumsutist.
Everyone else, report him for off topic, trolling, spamming, and raiding.
>All hail Japan's television and movies.
This emboldens my belief that weaboos deserve to be bullied
How about we report you for being a faggot? It’s clearly a topic that people want to discuss so just let us. Go find another thread.
It's not a war
These threads are against Global Rules 3, 4, 10 qnd are off topic. Furthermore, ignoring cancer only exacerbates it.
I'm not sure if anything's "ended" in the way you're implying. despite the media coverage about manga's ascendance, multiple sellers have told me that it still doesn't sell as well as marvel/dc.
Oh here we go again
Seems Yea Forums mods forgot to ban their reject from the rest of the site
> multiple sellers
Comic shops? Because the whole argument of these “manga sells better” people is that Barns and Noble has a larger section in their stores than comics do. So we need to find out how well manga sells at Barns and Noble not at comic shops.
I think the biggest factor is that the western comic industry is hyperspecialized in cape comics with long-running cross-continuity, with next to no space for new characters and properties. It is basically strangling itself to death.
But other factors do apply. For example, hiring cultists who care more about using the end product to proselytize than actually creating something worthwhile.
Depends where, manga overall is definitely selling more that's just a fact. People acting like comics make no money at all is also silly.
I used to travel to different chain bookstores all over my euro country for my job. Comics here were definitely much more popular in smaller stores in small towns that kids would pass on the way to school and stuff but manga was more popular in bigger stores that would be a little more out of the way from kids in cities with shopping districts or shopping centres you would need a car to get to. Those stores were making more off Harry Potter nick nacks than Manga and let's not even talk about Pop Figure sales
These bigger stores had such a weird selection of comics though, some random volumes of TPB of Saga, Preacher and every one of them seem to have Civil War on the shelves even though it wasn't there for the movie and trying to sell them all for a ridiculous price I assume most people came in to look and then ordered them on amazon or saw them and turned away to pick up something cheaper for their kid or was too nervous to ask their mom for that much money. Spending a few extra bucks on a novel, or cheap manga isn't really a big deal but these comics are at least 2x the price in bookstores. Compared to comic shops who literally get their stock at 50% under cover price, we didn't get them that cheaply yet there are no comic shops in our country
As someone who love both comic and manga, would said that books wise, comic booka sells are declining and losing the manga sells is because how the different it it is when it comes to marking.
Manga is books first , merchandises later
entertainment while comic, especially superhero comic, is a merchandise first, books later .
You can buys lots of cool action figures of superhero and villans, even the D list one,without even reading and buying the books much because there is simply too many of them and just hard to had a beginning point or an ending. Sometimes, you don't even need to buy the books, all you need to know is just you like the look of the characters, and some information on the package, that will be enough.
Or you had at least watch one of the movie/cartoon based on the comics, that would be enough.
Manga, on the other hand, is something that you usually read the books before you buy the merchandise. With manga, there is a beginning and an ending for the story so it's much easy to get into the story.
That's why manga books sell better than comic books. Culture influence and merchandises wise, superhero comics book toys and other merchandises business is not declining but growing, thanks to all the super hero movies, however books sell wise,no body read the books that much sadly.
I step into my local home in the wall comic shop. Shelves of cape comics as far as the eye can see, with only a tiny manga shelf in the back. Usually only see 2 or 3 people in store at a time.
Step into my local books a million. Not a paperback in sight, but 3 whole aisles dedicated to manga with regular foot traffic.
Choice of retailer makes a huge difference in this discussion, as they cater to very different demographics.
>*hole in the wall
Mainstream Western comics need to streamline production of material, economize and diversify to get to more sectors of the public.
having assistants isn't bad, black and white stuff it's ok and the average fuck wants something besides capeshit at hand
>person wants to start reading western comic
>need to find out what story line they want to read from multiple runs
>to get the full story they need to read issues 1-14, then go read issue 35 of another book, then issue 4 of another, then they read issues 15-46 of the book they were reading at first, then they need to stop again and read issue 142 of another book, then they read issues 47- 49, then the run is canceled and the series is rebooted for the 16th time
>person wants to read manga
>they start at issue 1 and read until the end
we have this thread every single day.
we have the same answers and conclusions every single day.
the retarded Yea Forumsfag making this shit should be permabanned for doing this every single day, for years.
>in western superhero comics from the big two you need to pick up a collected edition that has the complete story
>in manga you need to pick up a collected edition that has the
This whole skipping around to different issues of different runs is it from personal experience or are you just making shit up?
The superhero industry itself never stopped growing. Toys, movies and even theme parks are still doing great. The comics themselves have had a sharp decline in popularity but people in general stopped reading, the classics section in bookshops is shrinking just as fast as the comics section. Comics are having a resurgence though so hopefully publishers can capitalise on it instead of doubling down on retarded decisions
I've seen an increase in these kinds of threads since 2020
Yea Forumsssholes really have been getting back on the anime and manga are better high horse since demon slayer became the highest selling manga
Makes me wonder if they were here when one piece got the Guinness back in 2015
the humans are at it again.
they're reading stories that end, as opposed to ongoings written by liberals who think progress is mutants having an ethnostate rather than actually reading what the fuck karl marx and other leftists actually said
>people cry about and blame capeshit
>Deadpool was the most read comic of 2020
I think they are afraid of the mainstream, anime is something you should get bullied for watching but people were stuck inside talking exclusively to their online friends so they think it's super popular and want to be cool, different and contrarian again so they come here. People here generally read both though
This is what happens when you get rid of done-in-one story telling. And also reducing word count dramatically for the sole intent of money and to get others to buy without substance.
Also comic book art has been reduced to shit because you dont have to put any effort into it now that digital coloring and art exists, making it easy to put out a turd and hide it with digital effects/coloring.
These are near mythical and archetypical characters, so they will never go out of style ultimately. Thats why anime character #37743 is instantly forgetible while comic heros have an enduring longevity.
With a change in art, return to giving painted covers, etc comics can be more popular again and stopping greed tactics like decompression. Because anime art is actually near infantile so they should play up on their strengths like they used to.
I legit don't understand how people have trouble reading comics. The writers spoonfeed you on the plot constantly and unless you're reading about a very obscure c-lister someone decided to do a limited run for, you should be aware of the main heroes and their main tropes through pop culture alone.
>Batman: moody and dark, dead parents, has a bunch of adopted kids running around also fighting crime; main villains are nutsos in colourful clothing, Joker being the main one; mostly likes to bone Catwoman
That's all. You can pick up any random run and pretty much understand all that's happening as long as you know this. You don't need to have a "beginning", that's not how capecomics work. It's a different style and as long as you accept that, it's easy as shit to get into things.
And I know Yea Forumsutists cannot believe this, but you are allowed to like both comics and manga while also noting big problems both of them have.
Most Manga is actually like webcomics and not like DC/Marvel comics in the stories they tell.
DC/Marvel comics hires 3 writers to do stories for decades while Manga will hire a writer for their story.
Because of the same writers and a code preventing them from creating new characters for DC/Marvel for copyright reasons, over time characters get extreme changes in personality for the sake of another character's story eventually going back to normal like an episode of Family Guy, manga hiring different writers and creating new characters allows stories without destroying existing characters
Manga has characters stay on model unless a specific character's characterization is that they go off model, DC/Marvel generally trace porno to get good shots to sell books and characters look completely garbled when they are not tracing.
When you buy a manga you generally get at least 100+ pages of content for a chapter where in DC/Marvel comics it's not unsurprising to get 7 or less for $5 or more.
For webcomics, they generally look amateurish at best (toon boom + paint bucket fill, no change in perspective), occasionally the writer for a slice-of-life webcomic will get bored and make a random aliens / space story out of nowhere (It's always outerspace / aliens don't ask why) with different changes in perspective / more attention to details and shading before returning back to a low effort daily 4 panel slice of life social commentary comic.
Oftentimes webcomics and DC/Marvel comics features female characters with G-cups at least whereas Manga does the same when it's porno or light harem romance novel.
A very similar situation here, also an Euro (post Soviet bloc) user. The thing is, American comics (have to specify cause Francobelgian stuff is also popular here, but it tends to be closer to manga production/pricing-wise) are absurdly expensive, yet there has been a massive boom in licencing in the last decade, compared to the stuff I grew up with. I don't know if it's just because there's more collectors as the demographic that grew up in the 00's aged up into disposable income, but someone is clearly buying that shit enough for the translations to pay off. Meanwhile manga is quickly expanding, even though it's still an untapped market for the most part. If we go by the "Barnes & Noble logic", then it easily already has the market share of capes and what is published here is virtually all shonenshit. A major publisher is actually explicitly surprised right now how well their volumes of A Silent Voice and Spy x Family are doing. I expect manga will burst the Marvel/DC bubble so hard as they diversify their manga offering there will be nothing left but Batman and Spider-Man again, as it will be more profitable to just put their weight there instead of pushing out overpriced trades of Bendis' GotG for a handful of consoomers.
>Also comic book art has been reduced to shit
Generally no, comic art is really the only thing they still do better than manga and the only reason the books are still relevant today. They do need to be smarter with some of the decisions they make though. Not every panel needs to be hyperdetailed, with budgets and deadlines it's just not feasible and usually where they fall off especially on less popular books. Manga in general is super stylised and lacks detail until a fight scene
Comics don't sell outside of LCSes, which are dying because physical retail in general is dying.
There's a sense of enjoyment you get towards just looking at all the different comics at a LCS you don't get from just looking at shit from Amazon, and if you look at shit on Amazon you'll just buy it digitally which isn't as sustainable because I'm guessing maybe the deals with Diamond and shit.
Something about anime/manga art style lends itself to being more goofy and fun than serious business muscley-men comic book art. This makes it more approachable hence why anime dweebs are generally more fun to hang around than Marvel dweebs.
What the fuck are you guys talking about?
Nigga have you even seen modern comics? Nothing but wokeism and YASSS DIVERSITY QWEEN SLAYYYY
Comics are fucking dead
Totally agree , there are still lost of great comic artists that draw aswome art and wondereful pages.
It's more about what they could draw than their art skills, many artists have great skills but they couldn't go too wild and free with their design and drawings bet company policy and social media backslash.
>t.doesn't read comics outside the big 2
>Yea Forums mods
Mods are global, you fucking newfag.
>comic heros have an enduring longevity.
Goku is demonstrably much more popular than Superman
It's no secret that mods gravitate towards some boards over others, user. Just like you and me!
The only manga character who gets close to Superman is Pikachu. Not everyone knows who Goku is even if they have heard of DBZ. Maybe Goku will endure but it takes a lot to become a pop culture icon on the level of these bigger characters
The CCA in 1954
manga made with slave labor.
I find mangas to have a better pace than comics even if both use decompression. The thing is comics don´t know how to do it properly, they have panels of nothing happening except people talking a lot while mangas go straight to the point and use the decompression for dramatic effect.
Also when people here talk about mangas, they talk about shonen only or maybe slice of life which are bottom barrel trash so of course it´s going to sell well