>Stan Lee would never say "Steve Ditko created Spider-Man". He would say "In MY opinion, Steve Ditko created Spider-Man". But it's not an opinion. It's a fact. He didn't do anything. In the 30 year anniversary of this character, arguably one of the most iconic characters of all time, it's creator, Ditko, was living... such a sad, deplorable moment, in a small apartment, barely having money to eat, watching this man, Stan Lee, lived in a mansion, rejoicing about the fact he stole his work, and the work of all these creators. He is not a creator. He's a thief. But people believe his life. Believe Stan Lee created Marvel. He didn't. He stole Marvel. And to every single creator out there, that thinks it's not a big problem, just imagine that. Imagine watching someone else take the thing you worked so hard on, call himself the man that did said work, and gain millions and praise for it, movies and directors praising you as a "genius", while you live in a small apartment, alone, barely being able to get money for food. Did Lee care, and follow the morality of the character he claims he made? We all know the answer.
Stan Lee would never say "Steve Ditko created Spider-Man". He would say "In MY opinion, Steve Ditko created Spider-Man"...
>Did Steve Ditko create Spider-Man?
>[Long pause] I'm willing to say so... maybe. That's the best answer I can give you.
Did Ditko really not get royalties for spider-man? I thought he got bank from Sony, was that it?
I watched the documentary recently and genuinely, what the fuck did he mean by this? It's a straightforward question with what should be a straightforward answer
comics in general paid shit for royalties back then till Siegel and Schuster won their lawsuit
Why are you surprised that he knows how to word an answer that doesn't put him in any legal troubles?
According to his neighbors, yes. He used to get lots of checks in the mail. But then again, Ditko probably said he wasn't getting any to save face and keep his crazy Randian ideology.
Ditko's apartment neighbor said he routinely got royalty checks mailed to him.
it means that it really doesn't matter, he is the one that made him famous.
Stan Lee is only guilty of being more personable and outgoing that he became the face of the company, and at least he’s willing to share some credit.
He’s nowhere as bad as Bob Kane, who claimed on his gravestone Batman came to him in a dream sent by God to him alone.
People are for some reason desperate for there to be heroes and villains IRL in the comics industry. Bob Kane denying any credit to anyone else who worked on early Batman is at least something with a clear-cut villain, but OP's quote, which I assume was from Rasputin as he's in that photo with Stan, implies Ditko came up with everything about Spider-Man all on his own and Stan Lee "stole" it just isn't what happened.
You should know enough of how business works to see that Stan Lee was under orders regarding what he said. Anything statement from him that could be used in court to give rights to Ditko would of course be forbidden by Marvel's lawyers.
Also, visitors said Ditko had stacks of original Spider-Man art which was returned to him, but he refused to sell any of it. Even selling one or two pages a month would have boosted his income comfortably.
His philosophy was his own choice to follow, but to outsiders it seemed to cost him many jobs and much needed income.
Agreed. Both men contributed to the mixture. The dialogue and captions were half the finished product, and of course Stan was the one who promoted the comic and got it in the public eye. Ditko was a great artist and fine storyteller but he didn't have that extroverted personality that Stan had to make Marvel a great successs,
How would he know??? Was he stealing his mail or something?
This is a good explanation, because Lee secretly disliked comics. I don't think he personally cared about who is credited with what.
The words ruin Silver Age Marvel for me.
Sucks out all of the charm of the art.
>It´s another "Moore rants about something he that doesn´t get"
Only 15 year old trying to act edgy hate based Stan
The fun part is Kane only came with the name, the thing he created didn´t look at all like Batman. Bill Finger designed the rest
Notice that the Moore spammer always makes these threads on Yea Forums and Yea Forums.
Fuck Stan lee. He’s in hell
That's too bad. Comics work on the synergy between the art and the words. You're only getting half of the experience. It's like watching every movie with the sound turned off.
Stan didn't care much for super-heroes. His heart was in scripting Westerns and those comedy titles like PATSY WALKER and MILLIE THE MODEL. Reading them, you can see how much fun he was having.
But super-heroes came into vogue. He had to produce whatever would sell.
I keep hearing the reason ditko left spider-man was because of the green goblin reveal but that doesn’t make any sense, the issue that introduces Norman Osborne heavily implies he’s the green goblin.
Also it’s such trite that all these arguments are between lee and ditkos ownership, Gerry Conway wrote a lot of the early character defining arcs and doesn’t get a mention.
My guess might be the tenants got their mail in a bank of boxes in the lobby. He saw Ditko getting his mail and they chatted about it. "Bills, bills, bills. Say, what's that from Marvel, Steve?"
Luckily that's not up to kids like you.
Ditko himself said the main reason he quit was because publisher Martin Goodman kept promising bonuses and benefits which never materialized. Goodman was notoriously cheap and treated the artists as replaceable workers, like guys who mow your lawn.
Ditko leaving over the Green Goblin's identity wasn't true, it was just the official answer Marvel gave for years, and Ditko was a recluse who wasn't giving his side of the story.
>Fuck Stan lee. He’s in hell
A reminder: No matter how much shit people like Kirby talked and drew about Stan he never returned fire and always offered them a position where they could make money.
It's not Stans's fault that comics dudes are fucking morons. Being smarter doesn't send you to hell, it keeps you out of the poorhouse though.
They just needed a better writer.
Didn't Stan try to convince Kirby to take a permanent Marvel staff job in the 60s that would have paid a lot better, but Kirby turned it down as it would have meant he'd have to give up drawing comics?
He did say that he quit over being stiffed on bonuses and merchandise rights. But I have no idea where he said that, maybe a letter to THE COMICS JOURNAL?
Kirby had problems everywhere he go. He never found his place
Nope. Turn the soundtrack on and get the full experience, same as with comics,.
Whenever he said it, it seems like it was a long time afterwards, while people had been hearing Marvel's claims for years.
Did you reply without reading?
>Kirby had problems everywhere he go.
If you only meet assholes everywhere you go, it's not everyone else. It's you.
Ditko was a mentally-ill joyless fuck obsessed with Ayn Rand of all things. He created Spider-Man alongside Stan, and then bailed almost immediately and never had anything to do with the character again. Stan, meanwhile, was doing his best to make Spider-Man the biggest thing ever. He was the one negotiating with Toei to make a Japanese Spider-Man show that made Spidey the most popular Western hero in the country by a mile, meanwhile, Ditko probably couldn't find Japan on the map.
That's the long and short of it. Stan kept reaching out a helping hand towards Kirby and deceades later people insist it's Lee's fault Kirby didn't take any help. This was after Kirby drew all his "Stan Lee is a pimp" comics too.
Lee didn't give a shit. But somehow the bigger man in all of it is the asshole.
He tried to get Kirby to accept being Art Director, but Kirby wouldn't accept it.
It's not mentioned often, but unlike his partner Joe Simon,Jack Kirby never made a serious effort to break into advertising or movie posters or album covers. Certainly Jack Davis made good money leaving comics and getting into those markets.
For whatever reason, he only wanted to draw comic books and draw them as much as he could,. The idea of getting a regular part-time job for benefits and a regular paycheck doesn't seem to have ever been considered by Kirby,
"They just needed a better writer."
I replied with a metaphor of what you're missing. Seems straightforward.
Part of that is fanzines taking Kirby's side and demonizing Stan, all for better sales. THE COMICS JOURNAL was incredibly biased.
Jack Kirby was a major talent, a great storyteller, but he also fought with every editor he ever had. He hated going back to Atlas in 1959, but he had burned every bridge and had nowhere else to turn.
And even after Kirby wrote and drew that mean-spirited Funky Flashman story, Stan still welcomed him back to Marvel again in 1976 and gave him whatever titles he wanted to do.
I know. You're just repeating yourself.
A better writer would have been a huge improvement; synergy as a requirement is a given.
These "movies" have shitty "soundtracks" that ruin the experience. Get it?
Ditko was talented and skilled. But after reading Ayn Rand, he locked himself into a rigid philosophy which kept narrowing the sort of stories he would allow himself to draw.
It was his choice and his life. But from his fans' viewpoint, his beliefs kept him from turning out a lot more excellent art. The stories he did for CREEPY after leaving Marvel are amazing. He tried experimenting with techniques like wash or charcoal with great results.
i really can't deal with another troll today.
Based
Can you imagine that? Grabbing Ditko's creations and twisting them for your personal gain? Only for your name to be more recognizable as a result?
Jeez Moore, you really love fighting for the little guy with that million dollar net worth
Holy fucking based
Then Alan Moore didn’t create Rorschach, Gibbons did.
>keep his crazy Randian ideology.
>it’s crazy because I disagree
Considering Moore has spent his career debasing and coarsening characters created by others, he must know how ironic he's being.
Gerry Conway is a faggot so there’s that
You will never be a woman
Well, all the Watchmen characters were reworked Charlton heroes.
Seriously, aside from V FOR VENDETTA, what are Alan Moore's original characters? I remember the Bojeffries Saga from WARRIOR magazine,what else?
Wrong thread, son. No one mentioned trannies here.
I don’t care about you trying to act like you know anything more about comics than I simply because I didn’t include every tidbit of fucking information.
You’ve done nothing but display your inability to grasp a point, that being “Alan Moore is claiming a writer isn’t deserving of any credit and thus deserves no credit.”
Trying again, eh?
It's like Moore is a giga hypocrite.
Shut up tranny.
What?
Lee was the one who sold the Marvel universe as a business and he was clearly invested in portraying himself as much of a character as the ones on the pages. He was kind of a phony.
Kirby created Marvel comics.
Lee created Marvel Comics.
That was a marketing gimmick created just as much by the company as Stan. You fucking kids believe whatever some old crotchety faggots tell you with zero questions it’s pathetic.
You really deleted just to post a picture like an autist? Jesus you need suicide.
Gil Kane said that Kirby would fume and rant after being told to redraw a cover or having changes made to his art. But that was what every artist in comics dealt with. No matter who you were, the editor could reject a story or have a page redrawn or give your title to another artist. The editor was responsible for turning out a product that would sell.
Which is ridiculous considering he got his start under Eisner who was a notorious stickler.
See
Not really a phony. Everyone from Flo Steinberg to Sol Brodsky to various artists said that the persona of Stan in the scripts and letters pages and bulletins really was how Stan was. Glib, enthusiastic, a bit annoying but very much investing in the comics.
Nearly all of Kirby's best work was done with a partner, Joe Simon or Stan Lee. His books for DC starting in 1971 and all the comics he drew later for Pacific are interesting and well worth checking out, but not IMO his best.
Who, Gil Kane? I thought he started as an assistant to Simon and Kirby when they were at DC. I honestly didn't know he worked for Will Eisner.
Sheesh. With Lou Fine, Wally Wood, Jules Feiffer and now Gil Kane, Eisner had a better line-up of talent on his strip than most publishers did on a whole line.
Challs came earlier but you’re right. Though I would say New Gods and Forever people are legit great. None of the other fourth world comics though.
Ironic considering you’re the faggot shilling meme opinions trannies on Twitter constantly parrot.
No, Kirby. He got his first big break at Eisner and Iger.
Oh, right. I forgot all about that. It's been a long time since I thought about that period.
Was Moore there in the room when Spider-Man was created? No? Then HIS opinion doesn't mean shit, and that is a fact.
CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN was created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. When they dissolved their partnership, Kirby was given the already developed strip to offer to DC. I think this was when Simon went to CRACKED.