What do you all think of the concept of the hero's journey and plot triangles?

that would be coming of age. Note heroe's journey is not always involve a literal hero, but rather a protagonist

I guess it might be useful for some modern comics and (story/binge) cartoons.
A lot of things these days are very "And then another thing happens" where until ze designated plot area is entered for 5 minutes and then left for more nonsense.
>I think that it analyses of the Hero's Journey have a strange tendency to avoid the sexual connotations.
I'm not sure what you're saying but it is a bit weird that relationships are never mentioned in these as I thought the era of stories The Hero's Journey is a commentary on had female characters just to have them get with the hero.
It's like TVTropes before TVTropes.

I think there are more ways to say a story is shit than saying it doesn't fit a model like this one, just because famous writers used it doesn't make it a fucking go-to, and as says it is too vague and too specific.

smarmy, but wrong

Give me a single action or adventure story that doesn't follow this format (that actually concluded, if a show didn't finish it doesn't mean the ending wouldn't also follow this)

romance and comedy does seem to be the odd exception. yet they can still have plot

it also does not always involve magic or supernatural*

True, but there is a pseudo version of it if there is character development
>guys an asshole (known world)
>wacky events start happening to him (call to adventure)
>is stoic and cynical about it (refusal of the call)
>gets through more wacky shit (belly of the whale)
>Something bad happens (abyss)
>Catharsis occurs (transformation)
>He goes back to his old life a better person (Gift of the Goddess)
Think of an american comedy movie, dont they usually follow this? With one or more characters?

Oh?
So your parents didn't have sex?
You were grown in a pod?

I'd argue that "proves themselves worthy of reproducing" applies to basically any male protagonist.

The desired cycle of the human experience expressed in a narrative form appearing across all different cultures.

It's not realistic, complex, or innately special. In fact, I'd say it's rather childish.

where are you going with this dude, im a little concerned for you, is there something you want to tell us about your sex obsession?

except most humans never live "adventures"

exactly

so how does one tell a mature story, can it even be broken down into parts?

There's no one formula for any kind of story, and I say there shouldn't be.

The Hero's Journey isn't childish because it's a formula: it's childish because every event serves a purpose or molds the protagonist in some way in a specific manner complimenting the previous event. Sometimes things just happen. Sometimes people stay the same. I'm not saying childishness or realism are inherently bad or good, seeking to do one or the other often leads to writers fucking up a story, but it's this obvious narrative push that takes me out of it.

I guess this one fic I've been reading has been doing things for me lately. Sporadic, disconnected, and varying meaningful events in a character's life all leading up to some other fic with a more structured course of events.

so i guess it comes down to how focused a character stays on something regardless of what happens to them
When hero's journey, in turn, tries to distract them and force them on an unwanted advanture

youtu.be/IrrADTN-dvg?t=93

>You were grown in a pod?
No, retard, i'm one of those little thingies that grow after you throw water at them.

Is this the script for Ant-Man?

wholesome goodness in that message. dont worry user, i not interested in robots

study personality types and play with them a bit

A lot of people don't seem to understand The Heroes Journey is simply a single type of story, and it's significance is that it's same basic structure found in every culture on Earth regardless of how different they are. That formula is apparently innate to some aspect to human psychology, which is why a lot of popular stories tend to follow it. But it's still just one type of story and you can't find it in everything, defying it doesn't make a story bad. The problem is that too many writers try to break the formula for the sake of being unexpected, but it's always best to understand the rules before you break them if you actually want to make something good, not just defiant for the sake of it.

>plot triangles
I'm not sure what you mean by this.

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>broke
Campbell's Hero's Journey
>woke
Propp's Folktale Morphology
>bespoke
Aristotlean poetic structure

It really depends. The MC of the fic in question changes because of a few or a combination of key important events that mark phases of his life

>Original Personality: Autistic Murderhobo orphan
>Developing Personality: Somewhat autistic but more expressive gang leader
>Further Developed Personality: Wild Gang leader
>End Result Personality: Controlled, albeit somewhat unhinged, gang leader

Shift from first to second was from unlocking super powers. Second to third was a result of succeeding as a gangster. Third to fourth seems to be the result of going too far in one of the best written and tragic chapters. These events happen years apart from each other, so it feels a lot like you're seeing someone grow up than you are a hero on his journey, which he is the exact opposite of.

this takes into account of an entire character biography though, which not all shows, books or films go into

>>plot triangles
>I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I'd Guess:
_Intro / Rising Action ^ Climax \ Falling Action _ Conclusion

Yeah, I suppose that's the problem. A lot of characters are considered the end result or their transformation over who they actually are. Just take a look at Luke Skywalker.

The Hero's Journey is inherently Male. Men are required to prove their worth in society to be able to fuck/marry/breed. The Hero's Journey is the path of a male character to prove their worth, as a metaphor for a man proving his genetic worth. That's why when St. George slays the dragon he rescues the Virgin. That's where the trope of the knight rescuing the princess comes from, or the idea of 'the woman is the prize'. They aren't explicitly sexual because they are always implicitly sexual.

Joseph Campbell is a hack and the hero's journey is Jungian nonsense. It's one of those things that people pick up in high school and then parrot and argue about incessantly without the slightest understanding of what it actually is.
Based and truthpilled

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but the stages of the journey is not exclusive to a 'literal' male hero, and can easily be experienced by a women, or someone not fighting or motivated by social mobility/ sexual prowness/ coming of age.. those stories do incorporate it, but do not define it in of itself

its funny, I think it was a youtube video, but analysis of comedy characters is that in order to be successful the audience has to have some sympathy for them, but they can never be allowed to progress, they must always return to where they started without ever changing. any gains must be taken away from them. they must always suffer

>not fighting or motivated by social mobility/ sexual prowness/ coming of age
Sorry, I don't think I conveyed my point well. Even if it is not explicitly about these things, the implicit (subtextual or metaphorical) purpose of the story is for this purpose.
>not exclusive to a 'literal' male hero, and can easily be experienced by a women
To my knowledge, all of the myths and legends that were analysed to produce the heros journey have male heroes. You can say after the fact that a woman can go on the same journey; but if you are arguing that their is some sort of subconscious trans-cultural value or appeal to the journey, then perhaps the reason why all of the old myths have a male hero. If not there would probably be more female examples.
IMO, there is probably a separate female heroes journey.

>perhaps the reason
perhaps there is a reason***

perhaps somewhere in oral tradition. leaving out modern times
perhaps also also considering writing was a special knowledge by the educated and there was a long time lack of womens education, let alone for the non-elites, this probably skewed things in the beginning of fiction

I understand that explanation, but it doesnt jell as well with Jungian archetypes which were influential to Campbell.
I think the female heroes journey would be 1 of 3 options or modifications:
1)protection of children (Ripley in Aliens), 2) keen mate selction (beuty and the beast) or 3) validation of the self (Encanto)

Ok but what fic though?

I get what you're saying in that "sometimes, shit just happens." But, your definition of mature has a funny side effect of making old kids animated movies some of the most mature pieces of media ever due to weird shit happening at random in them.

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>My Little Pony is one of the most mature shows in recent times

A New Mutant's Boyhood afungi
highlight and google search

It's a prequel but can be treated as entirely independent of A New Mutant.
you know what i mean

what makes a story worth telling though

If it has something to say.

sounds like propaganda

Oh that. Freytag's pyramid is a bit misleading in the way the diagram portrays it, with the climax in the middle. Some people don't seem to get that it's not a "climax" in the sense that you want the finale in the middle of the story. The end of the pyramid can be translated as "catastrophe" which is something we more closely associate with a climax the way it's used in English. The vertical axis is really more of a representation of the amount of stuff happening. In the beginning there's usually not a lot happening because you've got to get the audience to understand what's happening before you can get them to care. The complexity of what's going on ramps up in the middle and the conflicts resolve as you approach the end.

Again, the pyramid was simply what he noticed, not a guideline.

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Booth identifies three types of literary interest
>Intellectual: the desire to "know what is", our interest in truth in all its forms
>Qualitative: the desire to see patterns or forms played out, the "completion of qualities"
>Practical: the desire for the success of what we love and the failure of what we hate

It’s not like we’re the only ones. Most of the Internet is the same way.

I remember watching a ted talk because I was bored on YouTube where a woman was talking about story telling. It was more about connecting with people but there was a part that really stuck out with me for how to make a good story, even if it seems obvious
>what is the context
the setting, who's involved, why to care etc.
>what is the conflict
what is the moment that causes things to change and affect the natural way of things
>what is the outcome
what's ultimately different/what came out of this?
youtube.com/watch?v=Ez5yS4Q5ASA
there's some other stuff here it's a good video

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>Tropes =/= clichés
Cliches are "overused" tropes. What might be a trope to you might be a cliche to someone else.

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Intentionally trying to avoid tropes ends up making your work feel like you despise the very genre it is

Uhh I like "slice of life" kind of stories.

you shouldn't acknowledge tropes when you're writing or else you'll fall into the trap of being too generic or contrarian