I think it's time to accept the fact he was never a good character

Never see a Batman omd, not going to pretend that's a bad thing. People just don't have a problem with Batman growing old.

Why do you guys keep spamming the same pages like it matters? It's more of a compliment to Peter, and it still doesn't make Ben distinct

what is this supposed to prove? a writer made an inherently flawed character bearable for like, one run or a few issues, and?

None of the Spider-Man clones/copycats are good and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

I'm glad you at least have a fair outlook on this. What Benfags HATE to acknowledge is that when you get right down to it, he's no better than fucking Miles.

Because they are good pages that prominently feature Ben. That's all that matters.
>a writer made an inherently flawed character bearable for like, one run or a few issues, and?
He was good in the clone saga mini, lost years, throughout most of the main clone saga, the Scarlet Spiders mini, the first two issues of Beyond, and the mini he has going right now. That's a pretty good batting average

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>Because they are good pages that prominently feature Ben. That's all that matters.
What matters is fucking context and actual evidence that warrants Ben's existence in the first place. He's just a more mopey version of Peter with nothing to offer, yet your blind bias prevents you from seeing that.

Ben's existence has led to good stories, both with him as a main character and a supporting character. You seething in every thread will never change that. Yea Forums is a Ben board, go be a contrarian on reddit or somewhere else

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I don´t think anyone cares if Peter grows except Marvel. Kids don´t care if the super is old as long he´s cool. Every time Marvel tries to keep him younger and relatable it fails

>not liking Miguel
>not liking Mayday

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They're "good stories" because he's undiscernible from Peter Parker, an actual character. By the way I didn't make this thread.
Not that guy but naturally Miguel and Mayday are exempt from this criticism given that both are natural legacies in future settings.

He’s a mopey younger brother, there’s no reason for ANY comic character to exist, the point is what’s done with them while they’re around. And I agree that their is no point for Ben to be around WITHOUT a married peter, but with that character tweak they work well as friends. I don’t think he’s perfect, but he’s the spider with the best connection to peter out of ALL the current spiders still in print

>there’s no reason for ANY comic character to exist
This is really your argument here? This is desperate
>their is no point for Ben to be around WITHOUT a married peter
So like his inception, he's not a character, but a plot device.

I like spider man

based me too

They're both a lot alike which is a given considering that Ben is literally his clone. Their main differences stem from their struggles.
Peter struggles with his bills, and his college studies, and his dual life coming to bite him in the ass.
Ben struggles to find meaning in his life, and making one of his own. Despite having more or less the same intelligence as Peter, he can't do anything with it because he's a non-person.
I won't deny they are alike, which is kind of the point, but he's definitely not the same as Peter.

user most supporting characters are just plot devices that evolve from there. But in all seriousness, out of EVERY spider character marvel currentky prints, Ben is still the ONLY ONE who has any sort of meaningful connection to peter.

It's interesting all of these shitty takes came out of the woodwork as soon as they were espoused by the hacks at Marvel.

Being a non-character is not a character.
You're an idiot who thinks supporting characters are 2-dimensional and only serve to prop up the main protagonist. If that were true, Batman's numerous Robins wouldn't have the followings they do now or the characterization. Quit being stupid.

>Milesfag still hurt over Ben being organically popular with people who read comics
Reminder the schizo you're arguing with seriously believed Eddie and Peter were ever friends in 616:
I'll check in on this thread tomorrow to see if he pulled another 10 hours straight of circular logic and second hand embarrassment.

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You keep saying "non-character" and "he's the same as Peter" but refuse to elaborate on why.

Explain how Kaine is bad

Dude, you can hate Miles and Ben equally. This isn't a hard concept to understand. This just makes you look pathetic.
It's pretty self-explanatory, retard. When it's just Peter but isn't allowed to have a life, it's still fucking Peter in characterization. There's no damn difference in their internal traits.

>Eddie and Peter were ever friends in 616:
They're not enemies anymore, nor have they for years, user. What are you on about?

No shut up retard. You've had myself and other bullet point why they like Ben and what makes him different from Peter.
Either come up with a genuine list of critiques or fuck off

Yeah but they’re not actually involved in each others lives beyond costumed crossovers. Hell eddie was never shown to know Peter in any capacity before venom, despite us being told they crossed paths. And honestly with the exception of the 90s show, Eddie’s decent into being a villain never really worked and him being a hero works less since he’s kinda boring without the combined personality gimmick

This whole argument would be settled if Marvel made an Spiderman Incorporated with multiples Spidermans working in different cities, they could send Ben, Kaine and Miles to different parts of USA and let Peter be the only Spiderman in New York

They became "friends" at the end of King in Black and haven't interacted with each other since. They have little to no interactions besides being uneasy allies at any other point in time.

>You've had myself and other bullet point why they like Ben and what makes him different from Peter.
This has yet to be elaborated properly. All you do is post "bro pages" with Peter, which is in turn saying more about Peter Parker than it does about his clone.

Ben and Kaine originally operated in other cities, and Kaine still does. Ben was as well before Lowe dragged him to New York to get Chasm'd

>They became "friends" at the end of King in Black
I'm pretty sure they've been on good terms for some time. Not saying legit brother or anything but cmon.

Not really no, Eddie was insane as venom, then insane as anti venom, then I don’t think he and pete interacted again until king in black. The symbiot is the one who has the interesting relationship with pete, Eddie’s just there pretty much

Ok here's
and
Feel free to come up with an honest to god point of your own at any time

They were only on "good terms" in Cates's run of Venom. Everywhere else they tolerated each other but nothing more.

I guess they´re going to make Ben be a good guy again and keep the Chasm name and suit

Maybe, maybe not. I think they'll either just kill him off in a way the will undoubtedly be worse than his original death, or they'll make him scarlet spider and ship him off to LA or back to Vegas

Those posts basically boil down to "He's Peter but not really..." without any sort of actual explanation or support facts other than he started dating a different redhead. Not fitting in anywhere and self-discovery of identity are fine narratives IF said character actually develops into something new, which Ben doesn't. And when presented this information, you instead throw a tantrum.

You know Harry Osborn and Flash Thompson actually have more credibility as family to Peter than Ben does. And said characters having defining traits, faults, and aren't carbon copies of the protagonist. Notice how when you say "Oh Ben was awesome because it meant Peter could be a family man" isn't an actual characterization but a literary function that can and should be a thing Peter can achieve on his own

There's a difference between being on good terms with someone and being friends with them.

He also revealed out of the blue that Eddie remembered Peter's secret and Pete was okay with this. I assume this was a result of the symbiote bonding with Peter in Slott's final arc, but it's never directly acknowledged and the two of them act like this is how it's always been.

Harry HAD more credibility to be family, then he died user. Flash COULD be better family for better, but marvel decided it’s better for him to be a D list hero with closer ties to Eddie, than be peters friend. Everyone agrees those are two great supporting characters , but that doesn’t mean Ben isn’t, and more importantly Ben had more interactions with peter more recently than the two you’ve listed. Please start using examples that are STILL IN USE when saying that this most recent reduction of peters supporting cast was justified

>then he died user
I'm sorry but how is this in any way an excuse discredit to Harry given the nature of comics and the revolving door of death? For all intents and purposes, Harry still is family to Peter due to being a perpetual victim. That hasn't changed. You're willingly trying to downplay him to prop of Ben Reilly, which is outright baffling.

I’m not downplaying him at all, and was annoyed by the recent rekilling of him at the end of Spencer’s run. Him being aware of peters identity AND sane would’ve been a great status quo shake up. But he died because he had a good death and deserved it, Ben had a good death and deserved that to, it’s baffling that he got brought back in ever diminishing capacities ultimately leading to this. But it doesn’t change the fact that HE’S the one they kept bringing back to peter, and not Harry and I’m just saying that it would’ve been nice to let Peter have this other friend. Cause god knows he needs them

We're arguing in circles again because you keep regurgitating the same things
>He's Peter but not really..." without any sort of actual explanation or support facts other than he started dating a different redhead
Did you actually read the linked posts or is this a canned response? Ben's development is that he accepts he is a clone of another person, and builds a life of his own, with his own friends and his own loved ones. Then he dies in a heroic sacrifice saving his brother. Everything since has been shit because he shouldn't have been brought back to life

As for Harry and Flash. They are both great supporting characters. Harry is the only one with the claim to be a brotherly character though (except for also Johnny which you conspicuously don't mention each time). Flash is a good friend but they aren't brothers close.
And Harry, much like Ben, has his arc and died at the end, and again like Ben should have stayed dead. He came back, and is dead again, so we can rule him out of the discussion for what Ben can be RIGHT NOW. Likewise, Flash was dead but was rightfully brought back except now he is fully a Venom character and has not been mentioned in ASM since his resurrection. Peter doesn't even know he's alive.
All of the above is ultimately irrelevant however, as Peter can be friends/brothers with both, and also be friends/brothers with Ben. The idea that Peter has a friendship quota that cannot be surpassed is retarded and you should stop bringing it up.

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>I’m not downplaying him at all
But you are. Despite the shit they've gone through, Harry will always be Peter's friend. Death is kind of irrelevant because he's not a sacred cow like Uncle Ben, and is granted that privilege to return moreso thanks to Liz and his son. So with his relevancy and relationship with Peter, don't go doing mental gymnastics to shit on Harry just to try and justify Ben's existence. Because if we're really going to compare the two, I guarantee Ben is going to come up short due to his YEARS of wheel spinning limbo with next to no identity nor character progression. He exists, that's it, and frankly that isn't enough anymore.

If you were so confident in his character, you wouldn't be wasting your time defending him so feverously with name calling/personal attacks at people and instead be confident in the evidence to speak for itself.

>defending him so feverously with name calling/personal attacks at people
What? Why do you pick fights then play the victim when someone calls you a mean word?

>and builds a life of his own
And what personal change, characteristics, and motivations have been created on this journey? Because all you seem to say are things he doesn't have, specifically a constant comparison to Parker. If he really did develop, he would have had an identity by now to the point where you could easily describe the two's likes/dislikes.
>Flash is a good friend but they aren't brothers close.
Then you don't read Spidey.

You're having the same argument with people because of your inability to look at Ben for what he is, and instead feel the need to rework the material to make him fit

Spencer just PROVED he’s a kind of a sacred cow though, he was supposed to be brought back at the end of the clone saga, but the writers liked his death to much so got Norman instead, his return was little more than an unintended consequence after a literal deal with the devil. Harry CAN be a great character again and I wouldn’t mind him back, as I said I was ANNOYED with them killing Harry again recently, but then by your own logic that doesn’t matter, because the Harry we’ve been with for the last decade and change has been a clone.

When did I play the "victim", and why was this the only thing you got from that post? Could it be that when met with a well thought out argument that disproves your own, you instead fall back on childish insults? Because that's what it feels like when you reply like that.

So let me get this straight; recent examples in books only work/have merit when they fit your opinion? So by that logic, Ben is a weak character that devoid of individuality that should have become Chasm? Because you can't have it both ways. You don't appear to be able to look at Spidey material as a whole, but rather pick and choose what suits your own tastes

Flash and peter are two guys who’ve been locked in the vortex’s of each other’s lives, never being the closest but their friendship fluctuates between close enough to be roommates to flash being king of a dick. Now I love flash as a character, and want him to be back in Pete’s circle, but don’t go saying their relationship mirrors Pete’s with Ben, or he’ll even harry or Randy

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>but don’t go saying their relationship mirrors Pete’s with Ben
Flash Thompson is the big brother Peter never had. While he was tough on Peter in college, Parker accepted Flash Thompson as a good friend who served his country. Come back to me and everyone else when you actually read Spider-Man. You're compromised because someone insulted Ben, and are making dumb statements

Flash works best as a guy not willing to take Pete’s shit, and willing to give pete shit. Important fun and insightful but not as close as either of them were with Harry

You didn’t give any examples though, hell the writers flat out FORGOT that Harry now has a SECOND son, you really think they want to do more with Harry in general? I agree it’s a shame he’s dead, I don’t want him to be but the Demattias characterization is still important to the writers of the spidey office, and THEY seem to think that Harry is better dead. Now I’m not saying that because I like Ben Harry SHOULD remain dead, but as it is Ben is the only one, of the three you listed, that’s still in use in amazing, so it would’ve been nice if they didn’t fail road HIM into being a villain

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>Flash Thompson is the big brother Peter never had.

No, he’s just a Dick that pete knew in high school that had a good reason to BE a dick, they both stayed in each other’s lives, accepted the bad memories of each other and CHOSE to make good ones. Friends? yes brothers? No. You’re the only one hear dragging down a character to build up your argument

Earlier this thread you called me a retard, that was the first insult of the thread. It was all regular conversation and then you started name calling.
AND AGAIN because I'm gonna keep saying it until you understand. Just because Peter and Harry are friends, does not mean that Peter and Ben cannot be friends. Why do you keep harping on this meaningless point?

Now for
>personal change
Being his own man and leaving "his" old life behind
>characteristics
Friendlier than before but still a lot more guarded than Peter, he doesn't have many friends because he doesn't want to let people into his life
>motivations
His motivation for being a hero is still the same as Peter's, and that's ok. His motivation for just being is trying his best to live the life he's been given.

>Milesfag and Benfag keep arguing over nothing
Everyone hated the Chasm reveal and knowing Marvel they´re going to retcon everything in the next event or in 15 years

>Flash Thompson is the big brother Peter never had
No. They were both dicks in high school. Peter gained some respect for Flash after he joined the army, and Flash started to let up on Peter after he stopped being such an asshole and was a good friend to Harry and Gwen. And sure they developed a genuine friendship. These two pages are wrong and dumb. Peter and Flash did do things together without Harry. I distinctly remember a time in Spectacular when they decided to go out and play some tennis together. But they were by no means anything resembling brothers.

Your argument is that Harry is of less importance due to current events somehow having more importance/creditability over the whole, which is flawed. Furthermore, by your own logic and metric, Ben pales WAY in comparison to the characters we've mentioned, because he hasn't done anything in years and the current events, which you yourself has established have more merit, further showing how Ben doesn't fit in anywhere nor have an identity of his own. You can't have it both ways. Moreover, there is nothing stopping Harry coming back, or Flash appearing in Amazing Spider-Man. At all. So Ben once again falls short and has yet to prove his importance, relevancy, or even establish a real contribution to the social circle given the checkmarks already crossed.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Ben and Peter being friends was never in question. Of course they "could" be friends, they're the same person. How could they not be? That's not the point we're discussing despite what you're trying to change it to.
>Being his own man and leaving "his" old life behind
And what is he now exactly? How is he different than Peter? Saying "he is" is not a proper answer.
>he doesn't have many friends because he doesn't want to let people into his life
You mean how Peter constantly has himself on guard and reluctant to let people in? That's one of Parker's defining traits which he needs constantly bonked on the head for when he doesn't ask for help in either side of his life.
>His motivation for being a hero is still the same as Peter's, and that's ok. His motivation for just being is trying his best to live the life he's been given.
So nothing new.

Please try and keep it all in one post