Jason Todd thread

Red Hood would fulfill a separate niche as a crime boss. Just as Batman fulfills a niche separate from yet no more important than Jim Gordon and Dr Leslie Thompkins.

After Batman's entire 20-year career and Red Hood's entire life, Gotham still gets taken over by a new criminal every other week. If I were an average Gotham citizen picking between endless gang wars, Black Mask, or Red Hood, I'd pick Red Hood.

Of course, it's all irrelevant now that Red Hood has decided to maturely accept blame for his own murder via death by free-range clown, so that he can play board games with the other dozen Batkids he's never even met, and occasionally get hugs from Batdaddy in between beatings.

Seriously. He has no role to fill in the Batman family, DC should stop trying to make it happen. It's like making Catwoman give up thieving.

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Jason brings more to the table while being dead, than Timmy Sue and Babsgirl do by existing.

Redeeming Jason is the best path for him becuse its not like he'll ever actually kill the Joker.
The sooner Jason fans understand that,the better.

based

>What if punisher was a cringe teen?

Fuck no, he should be a villain of the batfam that can transform into a grotesque tentacle monster, and as time passes he will gain more power and become bigger to the point that he’ll become a Justice league level treat.

Thanks to comics he's a character who's destined to go nowhere and who will be in an eternal loop far worse than Ben Grimm.
like in his run for the last 10 years he joined the Batfamily, but still carried (rubber bullet) guns. And twice he was kicked out because he ends up killing someone (except not really), but then he comes back. Eternal loop

I like anti-hero Jason but its stupid for him to still carry guns around when he's a regular member of the Bat-Family. He should honestly stay as far away as possible from Bruce if you still want him to keep that angle.

>He should honestly stay as far away as possible from Bruce if you still want him to keep that angle.

Yes.

Batman literally has a bazillion good kids to love and cherish. It's painful to read about him gritting his teeth to deal with the screw-up. Batman and Red Hood have never enjoyed each other's company since Red Hood joined the Batfamily in New 52. All they do is cause each other pain. What's the point of being a family?

Jason doesn't care about the Joker. The Joker was just a prop for him to get to Batman, just like the Joker only ever cared about Jason as a prop to screw with Batman. For the goal of controlling crime, there's no motive for Red Hood to prioritize the Joker over the rival criminal of the week.

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>he's a character who's destined to go nowhere
so is literally every big 2 character. at some point you have to accept that big 2 characters are like mickey mouse or scooby-doo where they will endlessly be recycled with no change or you just need to jump ship.

C, a shameless cash grab

Word. He was meant to be a one-time villain then killed off at the end of Under the Hood.

He was revived to be a crazy tentacle monster, and he's been pointless ever since.

They kept trying to do the Red Hood as a crime boss thing. In the rebirth run they had him take over for both Black Mask and Penguin but then never really went anywhere with it.

the problem with Jason is that he's a character defined by his growth and relationships with other characters

other cape characters have a comfortable status quo that doesn't challenge anyone else's
Jason's existence is there to challenge Bruce

>comfy rich kid
>dad is a doctor and mom is a philanthopist
>they're good people trying to fix the broken world
>one night parents are violently murdered
>evidently the nonviolent path was inadequate
>don't become a doctor
>become a lesser evil
>dress up as a flying mammal and beat people into jail
>listen to Nirvana
>brooding loner
>deep psychological connection with a nihilistic mass murdering cloud
>every day is a battle just to keep things from getting even worse
>monologue about how if the city were a woman you'd fuck her

>poorfag kid
>lose 2 parents to crime and violence over years of a desperate impoverished life
>nice new dad is a nonlethal vigilante trying to fix the broken world
>become child soldier
>witness horrific predatory shit like sex crimes and murder
>watch new dad get endlessly hurt and broken no matter how many years he sinks into his mission
>fail to protect bio mom falling to more crime and violence
>die
>evidently the nonlethal path is inadequate
>become a lesser evil
>not able to stop crime but at least aim the harm at the more deserving
>oh my goodness gracious I've been bamboozled

Idk the second guy seems like less of an edgelord.

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a victim of a poll

But enough about Damian.

Source to that?

So something like Garou from OPM?

timfag easily
damianfags at least have stuff now

I like when I could self-insert him Eiffel towering Starfire with my best buddy

>muh tentacle monster!!
sorry your character is not popular as him
keep the cope

Ah, the good old days. Based.
What the fuck is the tentacle monster?

for some reason in one nightwing issue he dress as him...then transform into a tentacle monster for no fucking reason
it was never mentioned again
Nightwing #118 if you want to read that trash

Oh, I heard he dressed up like Nightwing, but I didn't know about the tentacle monster. Thanks user, I wonder what the writer was smoking to think "ah yes, the second robin, back from the dead. Tentacle time."

>Tentacle time.
Kek

For context; Jason was going to become Nightwing following OYL because Dick was meant to die. Writers managed to stop Didio calling it a stupid idea and offered Superboy as the sacrifice instead. but editorial still wanted Jason in the Nightwing book. So at one point Jason gets swallowed by a tentacle monster and spit back out, but he swallows some goo wile being digested that temporarily mutates him. it was never meant to be a permanent thing.

Remember the time Jason had a sidekick? You know, Scarlet, the one that Jason actively tried to save in Batman and Robin.

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She came back in their Convergence tie-in, right?

I get your point but that last line is making a huge leap concerning Jason’s ability to stay objective.
Hey man I know he beat you to near death with a crowbar before blowing you up but, you know, he’s pretty much the same as these other costumed goons right?

C. a side-effect of modern writers obsessing over and making a single facet of Batman--his aversion to killing--into the entire crux of his character.

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>Just as the original Under the Hood comic begins with the Infinite Crisis touching Batman's world, so it ends that way — the universe literally fractures around Batman, the Joker and Jason as they stand together in that room with the gun and the bomb at the same moment that the bomb would have exploded; thereby avoiding any actual conclusion to the story. So I gotta know: if not for the Crisis, how would it have ended?

>"The building comes down. And Jason is gone," Winick answers. "If Jason were to come back after that ... not under my watch. You don't really get to have an ending; it's about how structures move forward. Bruce made his choice, he gravely hurt Jason rather than allowing Jason to murder the Joker, this psychopath. And for Jason, that's nothing he didn't know would happen. It just underlined his greatest fear. He's a quivering mass of jelly, with a gun to the Joker's head, pleading with Bruce for Bruce to let Jason kill the Joker. But Bruce can't do it. It's just wrong. And that's the end-point to the story I was telling about them."

sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=1711

Red Hood wasn't meant to be a lasting character. He's a symbol of how some of the filth of Crime Alley can't be washed out, and heroes like Bruce and Tim and Dick won't cross the line to lower themselves to the criminals' level. The entire point is to show how Jason willingly crossing that line meant he burned his bridge and couldn't come back.

Jason was an 18 y.o. adult and he knew killing criminals was wrong, but he chose to anyway, because he's a bad guy. He was written as a villain.

Red Hood is the same shitty teenager that everyone wanted to die. Except for Bruce Timm I guess, since he used Jason as the Robin in BTAS.

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lol what a retarded take

Non of that confirms he was meant to die, and he was a one time villain in the same way every new villain is when first introduced. And your take doesn’t adds with what it’s being said in the interview, learn to read.

You've got a point. But even in Under the Red Hood, Red Hood kidnapped Joker then tossed him in a closet halfway through the story, then continued to dismantle Black Mask just because.

Then after UtRH, Red Hood is still running around sabotaging criminals and sometimes being an informant to the heroes.

So my point is Red Hood being a Batfamily-exile crime Kingpin isn't dependent on his capacity to kill the Joker. He can have other priorities.

But lazy writers default to Jason being a trauma-dumping sadboi fixated on Da Jokah.

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That all red gimp mask and an angry Batsy.

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It's really weird to me how the different Robins fans get competitive with each other. Most of them fill different niches.

Damian and Jason actually have some potential for a good dynamic. They're reversals of each other, but they also have a lot in common. Plus Jason is huge so Damian can get carried around like a little buddy.

I can kind of see how Tim fans would feel threatened, since Tim's entire origin hinges on being the anti-Jason. So if Jason comes waltzing back as a competent sympathetic character, then it throws a wrench in Tim's place.

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Shit.

This was supposed to respond to that

Listen. Anyone confused about the Red Hood fangirls needs to understand that Under the Red Hood is one long close physical and emotional fight between hunky Batman and a younger leather-wearing version of himself, and they take off each other's clothes, and talk about their feelings in the rain.

I'm not even talking about hot yaois with nasty incest shit, though there are probably fujoshi all over this too--I'm just saying there are TWO tortured hunks being tortured and sexy for like 90 minutes. For women, I think UtRH might be the sexiest DC movie ever.

It is the equivalent of the Supergirl vs Galatea fight in JLU, or the Wondy vs Earth-3 Superwoman catfight, except with more personal relationship drama and again it is stretched out for 90 glorious minutes.

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Villains should be killed. Joker will never reform, etc.
Petty criminals yes, supers and freaks? No

Jason thread. Post rule 63 Jason.

(I want to find the pretty stuff.)

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She drove away at the end of that story did you forget that?

there are two elephants in a narrative room. First one, if Jasons kills then Batman should have nothing to do with him. But if he doesnt than what the fuck is even point of existence of this characeter? Having a family friendly not!Punisher hanging araund Gotham to kill z listers because Familyfags are too much sisies to read Punisher? If he kills, than what ever, being DC not!Punisher isnt the worst career. ask Vigilant how he is doing. You can even keep him as Vageta like antivillain who hangs around other members of Batfamilly but the moments he meet Bruce it must turn violent. Problem is that this leads to the second elephant. If Bruce relationship with Jason is so much toxic then narrativly you are puting into question the existence of Robins sideckick as themself. The whole idea of Batman using an army of underage kids to wage a war against unhinged criminals is already sketchy outside of Adam West universe. But to have a walking reminder of how things can go wrong and yet still insisting on not only RH but all Robins being incessant part of post crisis batmythos (how ironic, that character who created cape sideckick trope is the one who storywise works perfectly without them) is just immature even for comics. Not even Ego, the one comics who exist to give a pop psychological justification for Bruce character doesnt want to touch narrative implications of Batmythos secred cow! Narative consistence is only possible redeaming quality of capeshit in post deconstruction era. Without it all capeshit are just childish literary schlock chasing of its own tail in an endless statue quo circle.
tl;dr Having both RH Jason and Batdad undermines narrative of Batfamily and it is putting in jeopardy a narrative consistency of Bruce character

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Damn user, even if they looked like two Mr. Potato Head dolls but had the same dynamic, fujos will still be all over them. For chicks, it's the emotional weight on top of the physical attraction (less important).
As for incest in fiction, I think it's a bonus layer of pain/kink in the relationship.

It just confirms Winick didn’t have a story the way Brubaker did for Winter Soldier.

It’s funny though to imagine we get Didio’s timeline where Nightwing dies in Infinite Crisis and Jason is a serial killer Nightwing for the foreseeable future.

To be fair not of that really is Jason’s problem it’s more you can’t have a Robin in world of The Killing Joker and Death in the Family

Exactly. Look over interviews, and Starlin clearly intended to get rid of Robin entirely, not Jason Todd specifically.

Dick Grayson was shuttled away with the Titans or at college thtoughout the 70s, when the campy Silver Age matured into the Bronze Age that had drugs and sensuality. Starlin wanted solo Batman back. A kid sidekick is not justifiable in gruesome stories about sex crimes and femicide.

Starlin could have stuck Robin in boarding school or made him go live happily with his birth mom. But Starlin wanted what Miller did with TDKR, which is traumatize Batman so thoroughly that he'd become solitary and reject having a child partner for decades.

Bruce's natural reaction to losing a Robin is to end the Batfamily. TDKR and Batman Beyond are prime examples. Tim Drake was quickly brought in as the new Robin, not as a natural logical development, but for merchandising--this info is all up on Wikipedia.

Red Hood's very existence leans a little too hard on the meta of janky comic book logic.

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The really question is what are the 2 New Red Hood comic we get this year going to look like?

Will they be Jason Todd Red Hood comics or will it be more Red Nightwing garbage that Zdarsky and Rosenberg put out?

I absolutely agree but like what was brought up earlier there really wasn’t a good plan for Red Hood.

Winick was doing a one shot and was absolutely taken off guard by how popular the book was and Didio’s idea was kill Dick Grayson and make Evil Nightwing.

There was no Ed Brubaker driving the ship at DC.

There's a Red Hood and the Outlaws webtoon coming. Is it different from this?

Shawn Martinbrough (The Who did the Hill arc) has announced he’s got a Red Hood book coming out but no specifics yet.

C: future stay-at-home dad.

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They're cute!

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