How come Rise of Skywalker gets rightfully shit on for being a bad fanfiction but this shit is praised despite it being...

posting in a retard thread

Rian Johnson tried to make an actual movie instead of a cheap copy of the original trilogy.

ah yes
your mom jokes
high cinema, rian!
i clapped, because it was different from the OT!!!!

Despite treading familiar ground, TFA was a better pillar to start a trilogy than either the Phantom Menace or A New Hope.

>Implying any Star Wars is high cinema

Phantom menace is the best opener for any of the 3 trilogy. It wasn't afraid to explore the world and do something different to actually make the galaxy feel bigger.

What's with your autistic obsession with this movie

>TFA was a better pillar to start a trilogy
Only reason it was a better pillar to start on was because of how good the previous two trilogies were.

I think TLJ was more ambitious than the other two but that doesn't mean it was good.

The movie should have just been Stormin Norman the other villains added nothing to the story other than being cannon fodder

I pirated it and couldn't watch past 45 minutes
holy shit
it's ALL memberberry fan service and quipping
there is NOTHING ELSE in this movie
(and NONE of the jokes land and there is a LOT of joking)

It'd be better if it did.

Why?

It kinda did lol

Because Holland-Man sucks.

They all expand on the theme of 2nd chances.

How about I expand my dick in your ass pal

>I didn't like the main character
>Therefore, the sequel would have been better if it shit on the previous two movies.

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Yes, but by Holland-Man I mean all of it, burn it all down.

Dr. Strange's magic is a much better utilization of those elements and NWH meshes Holland's story and the anniversary aspect of the flick.

Rise of Skywalker literally starts out with "the emperor is back lol"

No Way Home was a tv movie with a high budget, Disney Descendants is sadly better

>Rise of Skywalker literally starts out with "the emperor is back lol"
The entire appeal of No Way Home is literally

"Tobey and Andrew and their villains are back lol"

Bretty gay user.

Ah yes, because Rian Johnson wanted to make a completely original movie where a plucky young Jedi goes to a deserted planet to find an old Jedi master who initially refuses to train them but then a blue transparent ghost from their past convinces them to do it so they do vague physical exercises and a general explanation of the force and then the master puts the young Jedi in a spooky cave where they see stuff hinting to their story and lean into the dark side which the master chastises them for and then the Jedi receives visions from across the galaxy telling them their friends are in danger so they leave to confront the Fallen Darkside Apprentice and has a discussion with him as they’re being lead to their dark side master who’s a crinkly old leader inside of a super weapon and then it looks like the dark side master is going to kill the Jedi but at the last second the dark side apprentice betrays him and kills him and now the Jedi has to escape the exploding super weapon

Oh and while this is going on the side characters are engaged in a chase with the villains and a male and female side character stops on a specific planet to meet a guy who ends up betraying them.

Oh, but I forgot, the part where they’re attacked on an all white planet by giant four legged walkers and they have to use local vehicles to fight back long enough to escape the dark side apprentice in the falcon happens at the END of the movie! And there’s yo mama jokes! No rehashes here!

Well, that’s because no one from the other films died

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Yes, but they exist as characters and have their own stories, they aren't just there to undo the last shitty movie and prop up Rey Frigerator. An apt comparison would be Dafoe showing up alone just to get humiliated by Holland.

TFA killed SW, TLJ just raped the corpse. Everything from the prior six movies was undone by TFA.

New Republic? Undone.
New Jedi Order? Undone.
Han’s arc? Undone.
Luke’s entire core characterization? Undone.
Leia and Han’s relationship? Undone.
Anakin’s redemption? Undone.
Destruction of the Empire? Functionally undone.
Instantly TFA told us that nothing matters and we shouldn’t care, most folks were just too blind to see until TLJ came out.

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THE RISE OF SKYWALKER (2019)

PROS!
> FINALLY gave Rey, Finn & Poe stuff to do together and had fun interaction after they were completely separate for TLJ.
> Finn & Poe were vastly better used here then in TLJ.
> Good music.
> Palpatine was great and was fully back in 100% menacing mode and none of the campier sillier tone he had in Revenge of the Sith.
> Final scene had a somber but comfy & comforting sense of closure to it regardless of the "rey skywalker" line. Rey sliding down the sand like the kid she still kinda is was cute.
> Saber battles were solid.
> Death Star ruins were a great setting.
> I don't ship Rey and Ben at all but their kiss was done well enough especially their emotional smiles towards each other afterwards.
> Rey's over-powered-ness being a actual detriment with her almost killing Chewie was a cool idea.
> Left the asian out of the main action.
> Kylo's redemption was acceptably well done.
> The scale & cinematography of the final battles was very well done and epic.

CONS!
> Absurd number of conveniences.
> Creating new force powers out of thin air.
> Doing nothing with the gold & purple cyborg chick.
> Missed opportunity by not letting Kylo be the final villain of the trilogy.
> Hux being the traitor just to spite Kylo after he killed BILLIONS of people for his cause was incomprehensibly retarded.
> ANOTHER fucking Death Star rehashing.
> Chewie's reaction to Leia dying was overwrought & cringy.

It has more numerous flaws than TLJ but TLJ had far more offensive time wasteful ones.

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Spider-Man No Way Home was probably the best example of Martin Scorcese's point of Marvel films being a theme park ride. No one went into NWH expecting a solid story, it was for the ride and the gimmick. Where as people went into Rise of Skywalker expecting some attempt at a resolution to the sequel trilogy and instead got a shit on a wall.

THE LAST JEDI (2017)

PROS!
> Good emotional performance from Hamill.
> Decent performance from Driver.
> Snoke is a bit more charismatic than expected.
> Dern's death was a cool sequence.
> The reveal of Rey's parents being nobodies was intelligent.

SUBJECTIVE PROS & CONS DEPENDING ON YOU PERSONALLY!
> Rehashing the At-Ats.
> Kelly Marie Tran (many find her horribly annoying, I was mostly indifferent to her), no matter what she was just a waste, time spent on her they should have been building up Poe & or Finn.
> The idea of the throne room battle was great but the execution & choreography was weak.
> The final "duel" between Luke & Kylo was moderately cool but anti climatic.
> Leia's force flight through space.

CONS!
> The slug crawl space chase massively drags the film & pacing down. It also makes the scale & feel of the film seem much less epic/cinematic.
> Dern is wasted as a ungodly unlikable bitch of character.
> Poe is wasted by being forced to sit around and deal with her horseshit.
> Finn is wasted by being forced to go on a irrelevant Capitalism demonizing subplot on the casino planet.
> Leia is wasted.
> Demonizing of the Jedi & heroism in general.
> Demonizing of Luke & turning him into a nihilistic, sarcastic jackass.
> Rey less likable & less endearing than she was in TFA.
> Luke not actually training Rey at all.

>Palpatine was great!!
Bringing him back literally reverses Anakin’s entire character arc, you mong. Now we know that Vader never actually truly betrayed his master because he was aware of the Exegol plan, and he never mentioned it to Luke anyway. So that’s six movies all for Vader to have the courage to slightly inconvenience his boss by throwing a disposable body down an elevator shaft.

Don't forget the scene where the old mentor confronts his fallen darkside apprentice in order to stall him long enough for the heroes to leave in the falcon specifically and then vanishes and dies at the end of the confrontation which is a bonus "Original" because the jedi master on the deserted planet dies by fading away without leaving the planet.

You know, an actual movie where a massive chunk of the middle section of this supposedly time sensitive mission to save the entire Resisting Rebellion can be put on hold to save a bunch of animals by releasing them in the presumably same location they were initially captured from and leaving actual literal child slaves behind, like a real movie!

>No Way Home was a blockbuster epic
No it fucking wasn't. Parker goes to a surly wizard to get into college, goofs up the Big Spell, and villain hijinks ensue. It's not Le Epic at all.
It did make a fuckton of money, because Spidey is a lot more popular than Batman.

>Poe is wasted by being forced to sit around and deal with her horseshit.
No, Poe was wasted by the attempt to give him a narrative arc. Poe never needed a narrative arc. He's the Leia of the group, he was fully formed and fully confident in himself from the moment he showed up onscreen. And since the Han of the trio, Finn, was a dude and Disney was far too cowardly to ever go for that pairing, combined with the fact that he literally never met Rey in TFA, meant he had precisely fuck-all to do, and therefore he had to be given some half-assed arc, learning about leadership or some stupid bullshit that really didn't land at all.

>Any good will that TFA built for Star Wars was dashed by TLJ thanks to Rian Johnson
But TFA built NO good will.
>Rian Johnson tried to make an actual movie instead of a cheap copy of the original trilogy.
But that's exactly what he ended up doing anyway. It was literally just TESB and bits of RoTJ rolled into one.

I actually liked Luke's arc in TLJ, makes when he finally enters the battle of Crait more rewarding. Certainly better than the weird cgi ghoul whose just there to slaughter a bunch of robots and serve as a random deus ex machina in Mando.

>> The idea of the throne room battle was great but the execution & choreography was weak.
I mean, is it?

Think about this purely from a story standpoint, what is the point of that fight? Why are the guards attacking Kylo who is now by right supreme commander? Where is the tension in a battle between the two main characters and literal faceless goons? What difference did it make to the story if it had never happened at all? Putting aside the absolutely shit cherography with no-clipping, swiging at air, running off like a lunatic and straight up vanishing weapons to keep the brunette british person who is in no way connected to the brunette british producer of course from being injured, as if the scene wasn't already toothless enough, how does this work as a CONCEPT. It's just a bunch of nobodies fighting people who forgot they can force push, that's it. They don't mean anything to the characters, Kylo and Rey don't even speak to them once, and this is the final fight that's replacing the one from the real movie TLJ shamelessly copied wholesale, which was an emotional, well staged battle between Luke and Vader, and that movie had real teeth to show Luke being grievously wounded. What is the IDEA that's great here?

It was badly done on the whole, but it was a badly done thing that never had a chance to be good even if Daisy didn't fuck up every cue she had and they could actually see well enough they didn't have to swing at nothing to compensate.

>But TFA built NO good will.
People fucking loved TFA when it first came out, the hate really started with TLJ.
>But that's exactly what he ended up doing anyway. It was literally just TESB and bits of RoTJ rolled into one
Kind of but not really, it shares a lot of surface level plot points but the overall story is different, like I wouldn't say Canto Bight is a carbon copy of Cloud City.

>Why are the guards attacking Kylo who is now by right supreme commander?
Because Kylo just killed the supreme commander?

>Finn is wasted by being forced to go on a irrelevant Capitalism demonizing subplot on the casino planet.
The thing is I think there's plenty of ways you can do a critique of capitalist excesses through Star Wars but they picked the shittiest way to go about it!
Seriously, Benicio Del Toro painstakingly explains to Finn that the military industrial complex profits off of both sides of the war which makes their goal morally greyer than before, and this is entirely undercut by the movie making it clear that A. The First Order is militarily dominant throughout the entire galaxy (somehow) and B. Every fucking X-Wing the Resistance had exploded like 30 minutes before this scene even takes place. It's so utterly toothless, I don't know how it made it off the cutting room floor.

>I actually liked Luke's arc in TLJ
It's literally dumber Obi-Wan. As in he literally wholesale copied Obi-Wan and had to jam in the dumbest fucking flashback, a FLASHBACK IN A STAR WARS MOVIE, just to try to justify the one character in the entire series who has tried and tested methods of redeeming fallen darkside family members and figured out the ONE method that worked. Literally one motherfucker in the entire galaxy knows the surefire way of fixing someone even worse off than Kylo was and Rian's dumbass was so dedicated to fucking up a simple Obi-Wan storyline he had him do the exact opposite of it, because he was never smart enough to do anything better. That was the best he could do, a bad rehash and a character written by an idiot.

>New Republic
It was stagnant in the original EU and you know it. TFA's view on it was certainly more realistic. The Core worlds attempting to demilitarize because the Galaxy is at 'peace' and only police action is really required. The First Order not being recognized as a real threat while Leia and her collaborators are labeled as Warmongers, Organa slandered because of her lineage, and it forces her to make a specialized 'CIA-like' team to investigate the FO.
>New Jedi Order
Again, stagnant in the EU it's collapse was a much more intriguing mystery and lead to a more interesting galaxy than the EU with 40 billion Jedi roaming around.
>Han's Arc Undone
How? He believed in Luke's abilities and teachings. He believed in redemption for his son even after he got stabbed in the gut.
>Luke's core characterization
He only showed up at the end of TFA and even then that was one twist I did enjoy from TLJ. It's like seeing a school friend that made straight A's all through out high school and had the whole world ahead of them, and then you find them working as a waiter in a Denny's 5 something years later. It's interesting to know what happened. Better than Luke in the EU who was effectively a God.
>Leia and Han
Still married. Still in love even after Han died.
>Anakin's redemption
How? Annie was still redeemed, that didn't change. Kylo misinterpreted his legacy which was accurately portrayed as a tragedy.
>Destruction of the Empire
The Empire is still gone. The first Order is just a gathering of old Imperial Remnants/factions gathered under a singular banner.

You're right but I think Rian also got dealt a bad hand by Abrams and the dumbasses at Disney. He just responded to that bad hand by flipping the fucking table over.

So, his elite guard aren't aware of the Darkside means of achieving hierarchy? They believed in snoke enough they would want vengeance? They're pre-programmed to do it?

When you start with absolute 0 as far as these characters go, it's literally just a random encounter with no meaning to the story. If they tripped and died then literally 0 changed since Kylo still gets knocked out by the lightsaber explosion, they still leave the explody pizza, and now these people who tried to defend snoke... because, well they're dead. They accomplished nothing but cramming in a really badly done fight complete with 404 errors from dropping a fucking lightsaber

I mean it's not like he was capable of doing anything better, by all accounts he was given full freedom and this is as good as he was ever going to do. A new world record for money lost between sequels is him at his peak.

Well it helps neither of them were dead and that their deaths wasn’t a major lynchpin of movies that people actually liked

>It's like seeing a school friend that made straight A's all through out high school and had the whole world ahead of them, and then you find them working as a waiter in a Denny's 5 something years later. It's interesting to know what happened. Better than Luke in the EU who was effectively a God.
The problem here is that the Lucas movies (retroactively) showed how the Jedi failed Anakin and how their own stagnant dogma led to their downfall, and Luke's actions in ROTJ are almost a direct rebuke of their phobia of attachment.
If you want Luke to fail as well, fine and dandy, but you have to show how the new kid on the block would do it differently. The movie makes zero effort to show how Rey's attempt would be any different if she tried to restart the Jedi.

The pic you posted never happened, it was Kylo lying to Rey. You don't know this because you didn't watch the movie.

>The movie makes zero effort to show how Rey's attempt would be any different if she tried to restart the Jedi.
Well the problem with that is that Rian and JJ would have to show her failing, realizing methods are wrong and don't work, maybe even losing something along the way, and then ultimately reexamining her own past angers with new context and refusing to follow a similar path that someone else had done, maybe in a dramatic moment where the choice to give in or the choice to reach out is presented and lightning is involved, somehow.

But Kathleen is so insecure that the movies fucking delete, actually visibly delete, weapons just to keep her from being hurt even in the second movie where others got injured.

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because RoS was 3 movies trying to be 1 movie and hurdled from plot point to plot point looking like the script had been slapped together with krazy glue and rubber bands.

NWH was 1 movie which tried to unite 3 completely different trilogies of films - and it largely worked because it had a clear beginning, middle, and end, during which things were mostly worked out.

>You don't know this because you didn't watch the movie.
Judging by the record setting 151 million second week drop and record setting 732 million down from TFA, that seems to be a common sentiment.

I think it's funny how Rian Johnson explained every decision he made and idiots still go with "lol he just wanted to subvert expectations". Also TROS didn't try to reverse course, it tried to appeal the angry fanboys' demands.

No I understand why he made the decisions he did. I just think they were fucking stupid decisions.

Because Marvel audience is braindead

>good will
>TFA

>and idiots still go with "lol he just wanted to subvert expectations"

Protip: That's because people defending the movie were saying that Johnson was subverting expectations

ok Rian, still a bad movie and you are a moron.
How do you fuck up fucking star wars.

>actually visibly delete, weapons just to keep her from being hurt
When does this happen? Got any clips?