Civil War

Hulk

Bah. It was overdone, predictable, and boring. And rang hollow, since most of the most heinous bullshit that came out of Civil War was thought up/built by Reed Richards, who got to stretchy bullshit his way out of any responsibility or consequences.

Iron Man side literally did everything wrong. I can't help but wonder if they thought that readers would automatically side with the government side because of the political climate at the time, so they intentionally portrayed them as comically evil to even the odds.

No, Millar intentionally put all the more popular heroes on Cap's side, including having Spider-Man defect to join him, played on readers' expectations that Captain America always wins because he's Captain America, for a last issue swerve where Iron Man wins because the public are on his side and Cap has no actual game plan to achieve victory except to keep breaking the law until the people and politicians somehow all agree that they're wrong and he's right. Millar was deliberately and intentionally manipulating readers' expectations and Marvel were intentionally trying to make people angry. A lot of the tie-in books overdid "Tony's side are the bad guys" presumably because the writers weren't happy with the plan, which is also why Iron Man spent two years afterwards getting beaten up in other people's books.

Don’t forget mega cunt Carol and what she did to Julia Carpenter amongst others.

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Literally just showed up in the super hero reunion before the registration was passed and then fucked off for the rest of the event.

Everyone shitting on Tony was the best of the Civil War aftermath besides Penance in the Thunderbolts and his mini

This made me hate Carol long before it was cool to hate her.

Civil War unpopular opinion: Speedball becoming Penance was a good thing

Ben Grimm's

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Based Ben

This was I Carol’s own book as well.

>Being shown to be a cold heartless bitch who arrests her friend in front of her young daughter and family before separating them in your own book
Embarrassing

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It was stupid that tony was on the government side and not cap.

And why is that?

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Because Tony has consistently been
>muh private property, keep your hands off my tech, won't be tied down and controlled, my stuff works best when my hands are on the wheel

He's also very consistently been anti-the-thing-I-did/made-killing-innocents and Stamford was his big wakeup call that they need to be policed

>A lot of the tie-in books overdid "Tony's side are the bad guys" presumably because the writers weren't happy with the plan, which is also why Iron Man spent two years afterwards getting beaten up in other people's books.
Government ambushing Captain America, clone Thor and interdimensional Gitmo were all in the main book. Even if you haven't read any tie-ins Tony's side still comes off looking like fascists. The only things Cap has going against him are soliciting Namor's help to essentially attack US soil, and the general notion that superheroes kinda maybe do need some oversight here and there.

The best side.

Man, I love this cover.

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Superheroes do need oversight and need to be held accountable when things go wrong, but should not be under the government's thumb to do its bidding. IIRC the Avengers already had that kind of working relationship with the government before where they were recognized as an official team, but understood certain government guidelines to make sure they didn't go too far outside of the framework.

Regardless of what your political opinion was, it was painfully obvious you weren't supposed to be on Tony's side during Civil War. He was literally employing supervillains, imprisoning heroes in what was basically the Phantom Zone and creating major unrest that would obviously come back to bite him later.

Tony was supposed to be "the bad guy", plain and simple.

Such a shame Carol didn't get the same treatment after Civil War II.

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Realistically I guess I would support registration, but as far as the run goes just see
Maybe its been too long, but were there any scenes that made Stark's side sympathetic at all? I don't mean "see, Cap's side is bad too!" moments I mean moments that actually made you like the gubberment stooges.

Nope. By the time Ragnarok/Thor's Clone happened they were well and truly beyond any sense of reader support.

Okay I'll bite. I know they were portrayed as no better than Nazi's, but I'm pro registration. There needs to be an accountable system in place to manage the superhuman population as a whole and registration is the best I can come up with. We need a regulatory board banning children from going out and putting on a costume. We need specialized training facilities to allow individuals to come to grips with their powers. Not to train them to be heroes, but to have control enough that having them won't severely impact their life. You need to be fucking licensed if you want to put on a costume and save people. Full fucking stop. And getting said license should take four years minimum. I feel like Osborn echoed a lot of this but was dismissed on account of it coming out of his mouth.

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To me, the only way to make the event seem remotely workable is if they had dispensed with the angle of "Should superheroes have oversight" and gone entirely in on the angle of people using a single tragedy to clamp down on the growing superhero/mutate population for their own reasons, either altruistic but flawed or entirely selfish, as an evolution of the superhero arms race that existed since WWII. If the debate was solely about superhero oversight, they would have just revoked the Avengers' right to work in the US and reinforced anti-vigilantism measures that already exist irl. The fact that they were specifically going after ANYONE with superpowers and then shoving them into either boot camps or stuffing them with collars makes it clear that it was an arms race incited by many years of embarrassment of the US being attacked by aliens and robots and time conquerors and being unable to do anything to stop it, being abetted by SHIELD who was run by a bitch who was still sore how much leeway her former boss gave to these costumed freaks and was using this as an excuse to establish herself as top dog in the international spy game.

Cause otherwise, the oversight was called "We've decided you're more help to us left to your own devices than calling in SHIELD or the Hulkbusters to smoke you".

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Trusting the Goverment in the Marvel Universe is a dumb idea, they literally exist to make the wrong decisions.

>being abetted by SHIELD who was run by a bitch who was still sore how much leeway her former boss gave to these costumed freaks and was using this as an excuse to establish herself as top dog in the international spy game.

Guessing this is why people hate Maria Hill now? Last things of her I can remember are "Pleasant Hill" and her coming up with the planetary shield Carol pushed for that ended up backfiring on her.

I think the big Cap retard moment was Tony trying to work with Cap, then Cap EMPing him once they shook hands, completely erasing any chance there would be a truce. Plus the imagery of normie ‘heroes’ like firefighters and EMTs physically running in to defend Tony at the end because registration was what the public wanted.

There really needed to be some civilian POV one shots in civil war to show how the Iron Man side was making people feel safe and working well. I think recently there was a run where cap admitted he really liked the 50 state initiative.

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Yep, that was the most dissapointming part of the whole ordeal.

>Plus the imagery of normie ‘heroes’ like firefighters and EMTs physically running in to defend Tony at the end because registration was what the public wanted.

I wonder how many people are aware of the fact this lead to both a Skrull Invasion and The Green Goblin ending up in Government power thanks to Tony.

Has subverting people's expectations for the sake of subverting expectations ever been a good idea

>Carol didn’t even have a good set of reasons as Tony
>started a huge fight by minority reporting everybody based in biased intel from a kid nobody knew anything about and could easily have been an agent of chaos
>essentially profiled a black kid
>literally beat her friend into a vegetative coma for defending an innocent kid against her pre arresting him
>continues to get yasss queeeeeened instead of hated and dip back into tragedy and alcoholism, apparently doesn’t even feel that bad about it or even thinks she’s justified

This is why people find her boring, it’s like Marvel is afraid to criticise or punish her.

A shame that we don't see that costume anymore.

The number of times the Marvel governments have leaked information, been taken over (mind control, coups, sleeper agents) had people just generally be power grabbing douche bags and you think anyone with powers should just trust them?

Are you Hydra?

That civilians running in caused the skrull invasion?

>it’s like Marvel is afraid to criticise or punish her.

Because they are. It's a social crime on the same level as a gay person discovering they might not be gay after all.

Ironically, Carol owning up to her mistakes would be a step in the right direction, but that would require her admitting she was wrong to do what she did, which is just not happening.

I meant the fact they wanted Registration.

Registration fucked everybody over.

There’s one what if issue I believe that posited that if Cap hadn’t EMP’d Iron Man, they could have worked together to keep the registration data out of government hands by presenting a completely United front and keeping the data in Cap’s head.

It was ironic the only person in the end with the data ended up being Tony, and he ended up nuking his own brain to safeguard it.

I remember Reed supported Tony's side during Civil War because by his facts and logic it was the only true sensible option, on top of the traumatic experience of his rebellious uncle.

I wonder how he dealt with the fact Tony's side and goals ended up causing more damage and sufffering than anything else.

I’m probably for registration, honestly. Done correctly and kept in house by the main avengers instead of being given to the government would be for the best, because it’s completely sensible to only want professionals or people who at least have the right training to do stuff like hero work.

Avengers-run hero work/power training and suppression academy might have been a good solution if they hadn’t been split and made vulnerable enough for the government to control by retardation.

Did they only cause suffering due to writer bias, or was it truly a logical and foregone conclusion that registration would put other events into motion?

eeeeeeeeh, sort of. I agree with your point, but there's certain stuff like Tony almost killing someone while drunk in armor and thus wanting to police himself that have been retroactively been added to his story, to make sense for him to want to be policed. It wasn't like up to cw, that was something prevalent in im stories.

So how come Ben gets to walk away right in front Stark and Danvers but Carpenter didn’t?

They like him more? Multiple authors unable to keep track of consistencies?

Because Ben walked away during the middle of a battle, if Tony or Carol tried to take him in Cap's side would've intervened to allow him to leave

I dunno, if you go with the meta knowledge that the heroes have where they’re aware of the government being taken over by skrulls and the president being brainwashed every other week, there’s no reason for the heroes to think that subjugating themselves to the state will lead to any better outcome. Add in the idea that eventually the government will just tell Sentry to go kill Putin or Doom or something and Stark comes off as the naive one.

Well yeah, but he’s supposed to take them all in anyway, so nothing has really changed

I'm an idealist. Assuming an actual functioning system that genuinely wants to do the right thing, registration is by far the most effective and probably most beneficial strategy we could come up with.

If you ever sided with Tony even before the whole thing came crashing down, you're a dumbass.

>Government ambushing Captain America
That's Maria Hill, not Tony. That's like blaming Cap for things Namor or the Punisher did because they were on the same side.

>clone Thor
I'm inclined to take Tony, Reed and Hank at face value that they were just trying to find some way to bring their friend back and it went horribly wrong rather than them setting out to create a living superweapon.

>and interdimensional Gitmo
Built by Reed in an FF mini a year before Civil War and nobody cared when he was putting supervillains in it with no due process, some D-list superheroes get the same treatment and everyone loses their minds.

I was neutral

That's just the avengers, user. There are a gazillion superheroes in marvel and most are anonymous rogue vigilantes who answer to no one and probably have no actual training besides just figuring shit out on their own

Tony was supposed to be the guy with good intentions that entered a slippery slope and just kept going

>there are actually people on here who are pro registration

Wasn't Hank Pym a skrull by that point?
He could have very well botched the project to make Clhor defective.

This always made me wonder who actually liked Carol beyond those who liked her look. Even if there were people who liked murder Carol, Karla did it better.

Hulk's though Ben Grimm's plan to fuck off to France was a good idea

That may have worked in golden age DC but this is Marvel NYC you are talking about. You may as well unmask and post on youtube instead. At least that way you can monetize your videos before the inevitable attacks on you and your family. They only solution that halfway worked in an AU Marvel so far was RYV continuity where the Xavier school and the X-Men effectively took over superhuman tracking, training and policing. That only worked because mutants and supers in general didn't go full retard there.

I'm taking the sides as a whole, yeah. I don't even remember what Punisher did during CW, lol.

>I'm inclined to take Tony, Reed and Hank at face value that they were just trying to find some way to bring their friend back and it went horribly wrong rather than them setting out to create a living superweapon.
Even if they did, 1) That's still creepy as fucking fuck, and 2) they still ended up creating a living superweapon and deploying it against other heroes. That's goes quite a bit beyond "We didn't mean to."

>Stark comes off as the naive one
I dunno, they did have him state more than once that he knew it was a bad idea but he knew that if some heroes didn't take the gov't's side then they'd go scorched earth and send Sentinels after everybody. He didn't actually agree with registration, he was just trying to mitigate the damage it would do.

Stark was profiting from the war, wasn't he? I remember something of the sort in one of the tie in minis

That was only after the fact and in a Bendis written epilogue.

Millar explicitly pushed the idea that Tony was right and anyone who disagreed a traitor.

Whichever one Spider-Man was on

he started on tony's side but quickly switched sides

I know, I'm saying I just followed Spider-Man

why admit to being a mindless drone ?

Cap side. I think it's funny they never really addressed Tony growing cyborg Avengers clones and just sort of moved on from it. Hell, did Reed Richards suffer ANY consequences? He built a super max gulag in the Negative Zone. Tony's side was just too clearly the "bad guy" side even if the premise was something a rational society would do.

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what issue was it where thor bitched tony for making a clone of him and sapped all the electricity out of his suit and made him walk home

Childhood is being on Caps side
Adulthood is seeing Baron Zemo was right.

The movie

ok this is based ngl

Thor Vol 3 #3. Basically Thor went to New Orleans to help out with a hurricane thing and Tony showed up and tried to get him to register and Thor was like "I'm a god and you're some little man in a suit" deal and yeah made him walk home powerless.

based Thor

None because I always thought this was a shitty event where every character was lobotomized in order to create a forced conflict.

user thats every event

bump

It’s not Devil’s Reign, ironically enough

The problem with registration is that this is the Marvel universe so the villains were always going to end up in charge once the superheroes were registered.

You're not wrong, Civil War was just one of the earlier big "hero vs. hero" events.

Oddly, that was a reveal everyone expected to happen after we learned Hank had been replaced by a Skrull before Civil War, and especially when Ragnarok showed up again around the time of Secret Invasion, but somehow nobody at Marvel ever thought to make it canon that Skull Hank sabotaged the project.

They've been a thing since contest of champions user

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my side

based

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>The enlighted centrism
Didn't know Ben was such a loser

fuck this political shit I'm going to space to deal with the funny fleet of ships from that bug man

based

Didn't he run away to Europe and join a group of DC parody heroes?

for me? its civil war frontline

Hulk's side.

The whole thing was literally already settled by the Mutant Registration Act being a canonical disaster but okay.

Carol did literally nothing wrong.

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is this real or an edit

Are you serious? It's so obviously an edit. However Carol did drag Jessica's daughter away from her and imprisoned Jessica yes, that happened.

Tony's side of course.
Only adolecents and subzero iq people could think a world that works with the rules of modern civilization (rule of law, etc) could coexist with ppl with masks not being accountable for shit.

Can even do a thought experiment, do you think right now the world would be a better place if ppl got out to patrol the streets with guns and masks. Do Cap supporters believe in fairies too?

DC

I never realized it before but isn’t it odd that both Spider-Women are unrelated to Peter and his universe at large, are both named Jessica and are single moms with very intense relationships with Carol? What are the odds for all the coincidences to stack up.

The initiative was comical, recruiting villains as instructors, killing kids and turning the ones who lived into hard core mercs. Like Cloud 9 was a sweet girl who rode on clouds but then they turned her in a sniper.

Real.

Major difference is Ben is strong enough to kick their asses if they try to stop him. Plus Cap and others are here and they'd definitely chime in as well

More like
>I won't fight my friends and be branded a criminal over some vanity shit from Stark and Cap

i read the entire thing completely unimpressed because they didn't say shit about what mutants already have to deal with, or bring in mutants on captain america's side. bringing mutants in would have resulted in iron man's swift and dramatic loss.

you're looking for avengers vs x-men

that was also exceedingly bad, and came off with captain american doing tony stark shit. just like when cable had his own island and the fantastic four sicced silver surfer on him. it was a bunch of bullshit

Civil war was good and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't

Can't wait for the latest civil war coming soon I think it begins in June

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Whoever wins, we lose.

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>Could choose to save lives on one side
>Could choose to save lives on other side
>"I'll save no lives because I'm morally superior"
Centrism is so based

I'm just waiting for Old Tony to pop up again. Just eternally pissed off that he got timefucked by Kang and that Teen Tony fucked all of his relationships up. I just want him full of piss and vinegar about how retarded shit has gotten.

That would be odd if they were both named Jessica, but that isn’t the case…

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Same, preferably in the Endo-Sym armor

>What side were you on?

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You think you're cool don't you

Yea I mixed the names up my b

My own side

Not exactly. While Fraction was made to force Tony to delete his brain and replace it with a copy of his memories that cut off midway though the Extremis storyline, Fraction (who was a full-on Tony did nothing wrong apologist who even openly wore a shirt to conventions with Cap's bullet riddled skull on it saying "Tony was right" to mock people who took Cap's side) had Tony, when he found out what he did during Civil War, say "I don't care if people hate me for what I did, I did the right thing!" as far as Tony continuing to this day to think he was 100% correct even after suffering a mindwipe of the memories of what he did and the hindsight of how badly he fucked up.

He blew up his team (Johnny and Sue left him, Thing ragequit and went to France). And when the final battle happened, Reed took an energy blast to the chest and and Sue pathetically took him back because, IIRC Taskmaster was trying to kill her when Reed turned himself into a human shield to protect her.

Reed then got Sue to take a break from the FF (and got Storm and Black Panther to fill in for them) and basically continues to this day to think he did nothing wrong, to the point that Hickman's VERY FIRST ARC on FF had Hickman white knight Reed by saying (and using multiversal travel to canonize) the notion that the only reason shit got bad and Tony's side lost the PR war, was that Tony was a shit person and that had Reed and Reed alone led the pro-registration side, he could have bullied everyone into going along with it and if necessary, make Tony and Steve go queer for each other to get them out of his counterpart's hair as far as him telling this to every alternate universe version he told this to .

Reed got shot by Taskmaster IIRC protecting Sue but that was about it. And Hickman, like Fraction continued to make Reed unapologetic about what he did.

The only one who survived the backlash from Civil War was Hank Pym and that was purely because Bendis felt sorry for the guy and retconned him being a Skrull and had him basically tear Reed and Tony new assholes when he found out what they did.

Well yeah, he said that right after he found out what he did but when that storyline was done, so was Tony being shat on for his actions during Civil War. I'm sure there were mentions here and there but he moved on and so did most other people.

That isn't really a civil war, more like ethnic cleansing war

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What does flatscan mean

There's only like a handful of superpeople who died during Civil War and Ben isn't in a position to do anything about it either way
Plus he's absolutely right about the whole thing being retarded so the best thing is to just fuck off away from the whole stupid forced dichotomy

Whose life you retarded casual? Like 4 people died in civil war and 2 of them were criminals who got lit up by the Punisher that no one saw coming?

I more thought that was a joke on how retarded civil war was and how homoerotic the rivalry became in subsequent comics but sure

I dunno, what's the side of wiping out all fucking life in Marvel? Because at this point I think Amatsu-MIkaboshi/Knull/Oblivion has the right idea.

These fuckers are drawing blood over who gets the privilege of defending MARVEL. CIVILIANS. They all deserve to burn.

That's not true, there was a prologue comic where Tony went to speak to congress specifically to talk them out of registration and succeeded, until Nitro blew up the school.

I always thought the whole Civil War thing was written badly. They clearly wanted to make Tony's side be as bad as possible, with allegories to Guantanamo (detaining Terrorists/Superheroes without trials), having him fuck up Spiderman, evil not Thor, etc.

But Captain America's side was basically 'I dont feel like obeying the laws that were passed by the President, Senate and the House, so I'm going to rebel." He didnt present an alternative, he didnt have a real plan, just a 'fight'.

His side was basically the 'do nothing, let the elite superhumans rule the world without consequence' side.

He basically wanted a fascist elite where the superhumans are above the law. If you didnt notice that , you're fucking dumb.

Iron Man was right, he was always right. Captain America doesnt have a PLAN, he just does what 'feels' right to him, and fuck law, order, democracy or anything that stands in what he wants.

Look, in theory registration solves a lot of problems. The fundamental problems is that registration puts power into THE MARVEL US GOVERNMENT, the same one responsible for all the Hulk shit. The problem is there isn't anyone worth trusting in the government moreso than, I don't know, Thor? Who's the least awful Avenger left at this point?

>but-
I'm also going to remind you that these people employ Maria Hill.

Nepotism. Stark and Danvers know on some level picking a fight with Ben means picking a fight with Reed (and the rest of the F4 but let's face it, Reed's the only one who will ever matter even with the attempts to powerwank Sue) and that's not a fight anyone wants to take. Apart from pissing off the most intelligent (not necessarily wise) man on the planet, it risks publicly aligning yourself with Doom.

Vigilantism is already illegal you retard, beung a superhero was already a crime it just only became enforced during Civil War. And not even actually banned the pencil pushers just needed to ask "you got a loiscene ta punch Reds 'Kull innit?"

Any band of would-be messiahs that had Namor, Emma and Magik together was doomed from the get-go. Just saying, muties have a tendency to accept the worst possible people in positions of leadership.

I'm honestly shocked the Krakoa idiots actually rejected Selene. I guess "actual soul-devouring vampire god-queen" is the limit even though Destiny, and Mr. Sinister are still members in good standing. And Poccy was until he vanished.

The solution isnt 'fuck the government, fuck democracy, I do what I want'. If Captain America does this, he's just another supervillain. He's breaking the established law of his nation. He could have done a million things. He could have run for senator, he could have campaigned politically to do it the right way. He could have organized a super hero union, he could have gotten involved in the process.

Instead, he chose to fuck Tony, when IN CANON, Tony legitimately stretched out his hand to negotiate a deal.

Captain America never wants to work in the system, he's almost like this demi-fascist that thinks he's right and does whatever he wants.Truly the embodyment of America.

Dont forget that technically speaking, Magneto is still a genocidal monster that has canon-wise in 616 killed thousands of humans himself, commited tons of acts of terror, and dont horrific things.

Marvel likes to forget that shit, but there should be task forces out to kill him.

You misunderstand, I'm not saying it is. Cap is retarded. I'm not disputing it at all. I'm just saying, in the context of the conflict, there are no good solutions. Each solution is inherently flawed and founded on assumptions that just don't benefit the people they're intended to in practice.

I'm the guy advocating to just wipe out all life in Marvel. Just fucking give up because at the end of the day, you know what these idiots are all fighting for? The continuation of Marvel civilians.

I guess I'm on the side of the First Firmament too. Diversity was a mistake.

I had a good fucking chuckle when he went to Jerusalem and declared humanity had new gods. Fucking hell, Marvel. Every time I think it can't get worse it does.

You know, I totally buy Magneto saying shit like that. The dude genuinely sniffs his own fucking farts, and believes that mutants are going to be the superior species and he's basically just proto-mutant hitler without even knowing.

Shit, just read House of M. His vision , his greatest dream is basically to install himself as ruler of the world, and have mutants rule above mankind as a superior caste.

At this point I think Magneto's best defence for why he's doing what he's doing is that pretty much every species does it. The Kree do it. The Skrulls do it sometimes. Humans definitely have done it. It's just that muties don't have a special moral highground that makes them intrinsically better than anyone else when their takeaway from life on Earth-616 is "fuck it, it's OUR time to oppress and degrade humanity! Let's set up our own sex cult/regime and populate it with literally the most evil mutants we can find as our leadership? Call Mystique, ask her if she's free in between murder sprees! Actually, you know what this counsel really needs? Some Hellfire Club energy. Get Sebastian fucking Shaw on the line!"

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Meant for

>I think recently there was a run where cap admitted he really liked the 50 state initiative.
>>>
I think that was the ironman/cap mini which is mostly just about tony and steve broing out from the perspective of a wannabe Hydra villian

in interviews, Gillian has been explicit and has stated that the bad guys are the Eternals so this won't have a bunch of both sides going on this time

Hulk, cause he came back to earth to stop their shitty capeshit story

I love how it spiderman joining tony escalates to him doing a deal with mephisto,some real domino effect shit.
They should've done a "what if Spider-Man joined Cap from the start?"

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If Millar was writing it, Tony probably would have outed him from the start.

>the bad guys are the Eternals
That's gratifying to hear because the current Eternals series has done nothing but convince me the Eternals were always a mistake. Fucking Thanos is in charge and right when he's getting a present from his grandfather Uranus the Eternals are picking a fight with the Avengers? Kill them all again.

>Kill them all again
Sersi was great when she was a horny party girl lusting after Cap - until Harras removed her personality and inserted her in that godawful love triangle… Although I don’t trust current Marvel to recapture that spark, so off with her head I guess

I get that a lot about a lot of awful Marvel female characters. "She was great when she was a horny party girl lusting after X". I mean yeah I liked it when Ultimate Hela was so horny for Thor she basically casting couch'd him and when Umar more or less DID daterape the hulk but it's like-nobody's gonna argue Betsy/Kwan's character was greatly enhanced by her thirsting after Cyclops' brainwaves.

And I will continue to maintain that Emma/Scott is a shit pairing as a relationship that is only liked because selfinsertfags like the idea of Chad Scott putting the blonde bimbo bitch down on her knees and making her suck him off. Which is fine to like as a concept, but don't pretend it does either of them favours as characters. And that nobody would put up with it if Emma didn't look like an actual porn star and be a cunt to everyone except Scott (sometimes). Like not even ugly, just-as plain as Jean when she's not insane.

Only complete morons with incruable libertardation of the brain would think that a bunch of super-powered vigilantes running around and doing whatever they want is a good idea.
The problem is that these exact same people write comic books.

In my country Tony was seen as the more reasonable one by many people. Many also sympathized with Cap but there were serious arguments being made for Tony's side. I didn't realize he was supposed to be unquestionably evil and that Americans saw his side as unquestionably evil until I grew up and started visiting Western sites.

Mugga term for normie

captain america. how is this even a question, honestly

Most countries are pretty anti-vigilante and pro-government oversight from the get go, so that was going to be obvious. Not to mention that Civil War was being written in the wake of the War on Terror, which by the time Civil War was being written had seriously begun losing a lot of its luster and getting a lot of burgerlanders seriously questioning the amount of power they felt comfortable handing over to their government. And I don't mean dumb shit like the 9/11 truther movement, I mean actually relevant shit like the Patriot Act, the NSA surveillance measures being declared unconstitutional, and the Protect Act.

So when you've got SHIELD jackbooting it up, well-known patriots like Captain America being all but compared to terrorists for standing against laws they think are wrong, kids being sent to boot camp to be turned into killers, and Tony Stark literally throwing people into an interdimensional Gitmo devised by Reed Richards, it's pretty clear what it's all an unsubtle analogy for. And even then, I honestly can't think of any real moral defense for Pro-Registration making a barely sentient cyborg clone of their dead friend, or setting up an inescapable interdimensional prison in the Negative Zone (which I'm shocked nobody pointed out would have inevitably placed them right in the warpath of the Annihilation wave if this horseshit went on longer in-universe than the month or so it did, Reed you are literally the worst for ignoring Nova's calls for help)

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>making a barely sentient cyborg clone of their dead friend
They need his strength.

Oh Jesus Christ, did they already make Makari into a woman to match the movie?

Don't think that excuse held up too well with the real deal

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>the Tony that’s still in the sleeping beauty pod and was stolen by somebody comes back and thankfully somehow Paradoxes both the Slott and Cantwell runs out of existence
If only.

Funny,looking at it this way,Captain America 2 is like Civil War part1,a shame that they abandoned cap being hunted then started all over again in Civil War

The concept of supers needing oversight was sound. It was Millar having everyone go full retard in their positions and methods that fucked everything up. The one continuity where it was done more or less right was RYV where the X-Men and the Avengers banded together to monitor, train and police supers in order to prevent the corrupt Marvel government from pushing their own dumbass ideas on how to do it.

>jobbed to hercules
Either Stark isn't as smart as he thinks he is or his tech is sub-par, or both

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In a real-world situation, team Stark would make the most sense. However they made two big mistakes.

1) This isn't the real world, and capes have been operating much better than the actual government for decades. Sure you get your occasional fuckup like the explosion that kicked off Civil War, but compared to what would happen without capes running around that's a small price to pay, especially considering that it was still a villain who cause the explosion, the only "crime" of the heroes was failing to stop him in time.Considering that the entire world has been saved literally dozens of times by "vigilantes" and even when it comes to less epic situations like minor disasters or even regular crime, capes in the Marvel universe are way more efficient than the police, military, or any other government initiative. Taking a private initiative that demonstrably works well and putting it under the control of a notoriously incompetent government is in nobody's best interest. We could argue whether real-world governments are less shitty, but nobody is going to argue in good faith that the Marvel United Stated government isn't completely retarded.

2) Team Stark went full retard. If they had just treated it like getting license plates it wouldn't be as much of a big deal. Sure lots of people would still dislike it buyt the majority would go along with it. When they started attacking people in theit homes, putting them in jail without trial, and creating literal black site holding facilities and slave armies, they crossed the line from "inconvenient but understandable" into "literally just fascist bullshit."

The entire thing made no sense. Stark and Reed had previously always been against government oversight beyond what they had already established. The entire Pro-Registration side had some logic, but they really never let the Pro-registration actually talk about how they wanted to limit gov't oversight

Cap has always been a terrible character, but he's tied to BabyBoomers who admire the Greatest Generation. Cap literally offered no actual arguments, it was vague anti-Patriot Act rhetoric without substance. At most they had villains apprehend heroes, but most of the time all they did was be vaguely more threatening.

The Initiative was a good idea. They destroyed SHIELD in Marvel, but having a superhero team for every state was a good idea in universe and plot wise. It means you can do a lot more plots than underdog fighting against evil group.

How were mutants/the x men handled on the civil war I don't remember them appearing much

Has DC ever had a story dealing with reigning in superheroes or those with powers ?

The movie honestly made way more sense than the comic

Millar's earlier drafts of Civil War had the X-Men showing up to join in the final battle. On Tony's side.

I think it did better by pretty much destroying any semblance of an actual debate as to the validity/effectiveness of the accords. Cap was just morally grandstanding while Tony was a complete hypocrite.
At this time I this time I think Mutants were pretty much living under the direct "protection" of SHIELD. They had nothing to gain by taking a side because effectively every worst case scenario had already happened to them. They wouldn't have anything worth fighting for until Hope showed up & Cyclops founds a quasi-sovereign state.

>Emma/Scott is a shit pairing as a relationship that is only liked because selfinsertfags like the idea of Chad Scott putting the blonde bimbo bitch down on her knees and making her suck him off. Which is fine to like as a concept, but don't pretend it does either of them favours as characters.
I don't think it's just that, it's also the sizeable number of X-fags who self-insert as Cyclops buying into the revisionist history that Scott had always secretly wanted to be Diet Magneto but Xavier and Jean were holding him back, while Emma encouraged him to be the unlikeable militant asshole he always wanted to be.

Keep in mind that a version of World War Hulk was also part of Millar's original final act of Civil War, the Hulk and the X-Men probably got cut from it because it was already big enough and bloated with so many tie-ins, rather than for any narrative reasons for why they'd sit it out. As it was, Emma decided for all of the X-Men that they weren't getting involved, and this was the start of her constantly blaming the Avengers for not being there to save Genosha. Bishop broke ranks to join Tony's side.

Citation needed

Kek, the Hulk showing up with his Warbound halfway through Civil War sounds awesome.

That's because the movie is the (even more) dumbed down version of the comic pandering to literal retards and mouthbreathers.

I liked civil war. Ask me anything

Those "civilians" were skrulls user...